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January 6th - what will happen?


Maik Jeaunz

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

His false narrative and continued attempt to silence any thoughts contrary to his preconceived notions is ridiculous.  

 

7 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

I posted the article.  It’s you that jumps in with the same schtick.  

I know you posted the article. I criticized it and the source.  And stand by that.

My point is that your post above here made a claim about a false narrative.  Now when questioned about that, you brought up multiple assertions that I never made.  Hence, the only false narrative was yours (as well as a few of the narratives in that article).

Can you answer for your post?

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

it's absolutely amazing to me that allegedly constitution loving, thin-blue-line "conservatives" are bending over backwards to defend this insurrection.  

After witnessing the mental gymnastics of the last 5 years I shouldn't be surprised any more, but I am.

Video of police being beaten isn't as compelling as one might think. 

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Quote

Nearly 90% of the people charged in the Capitol riot so far have no connection with militias or other organized extremist groups, according to a new analysis that adds to the understanding of what some experts have dubbed the “mass radicalization” of Trump supporters.

A report from George Washington University’s Center on Extremism has analyzed court records about cases that have been made public. It found that more than half of people facing federal charges over the 6 January attack appear to have planned their participation alone, not even coordinating with family members or close friends. Only 33 of the 257 alleged participants appear to have been part of existing “militant networks”, including the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers anti-government militia.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/04/us-capitol-attack-individual-extremist-far-right-groups

There is a link to the study, worth skimming, it's 50 pages or so. 

All of the really terrible stuff, from what I've seen, was by the individuals, not the militia groups. The fact that they had no affiliation with Proud Boys isn't a mark in their favor.  It was the individuals that caused most of the damage, that attacked most of the police. 

 

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33 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

 

I know you posted the article. I criticized it and the source.  And stand by that.

My point is that your post above here made a claim about a false narrative.  Now when questioned about that, you brought up multiple assertions that I never made.  Hence, the only false narrative was yours (as well as a few of the narratives in that article).

Can you answer for your post?

I have made no false statements.  

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

It was an angry mob that broke away from a peaceful gathering.  The article accurately points out there were left wing wackos also in the crowd influencing the mob.  

If this were about BLM, I would say Tim posted this.  IMO the degree in how bad 1/6 was, we may not know for years, thanks to national security breaches and what other countries now know. 

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15 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

I have made no false statements.  

Then please refrain from calling things i have said a false narrative if you are unwilling to back that up when challenged.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

Then please refrain from calling things i have said a false narrative if you are unwilling to back that up when challenged.

What are you even talking about and why is it you always have to get in the last word?  That’s rhetorical so please no answer is necessary.  

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6 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

What are you even talking about and why is it you always have to get in the last word?  That’s rhetorical so please no answer is necessary.  

Ive twice quoted and asked you about this post.

2 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

His false narrative and continued attempt to silence any thoughts contrary to his preconceived notions is ridiculous.  

So how is it hard to figure out what I was talking about?

 

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2 hours ago, moleculo said:

it's absolutely amazing to me that allegedly constitution loving, thin-blue-line "conservatives" are bending over backwards to defend this insurrection.  

After witnessing the mental gymnastics of the last 5 years I shouldn't be surprised any more, but I am.

They remind me of the ardent Hillary defenders and their "come to me when she's indicted bro!!!!" shtick.  These apples are not all that dissimilar

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10 hours ago, moleculo said:

it's absolutely amazing to me that allegedly constitution loving, thin-blue-line "conservatives" are bending over backwards to defend this insurrection.  

After witnessing the mental gymnastics of the last 5 years I shouldn't be surprised any more, but I am.

What is more amazing is how the left can go from hero-worshiping protestors and completely ignoring cities being burnt down, businesses being looted, people being murdered, cities being taken over, already hurting businesses being destroyed and all we hear is how 'mostly peaceful' these protestors are.  People in the media, TV stars, sports figures all cellobrating and supporting the protestors and completely denying that any protestor has anything to do with the surrounding mayhem and even suggesting it must be those evil white racists instigating all the violence.

Then when one Trump supporting protest gets out of control, we see all the prorestors labled as treasonous, we see attempts to throw the book at people who engaged in zero violence, we see McCarthyism style tactics of people who are politically aligned to Trump, people associated with the protests losing their jobs, guardsmen being questioned for their loyalty to their country.  People being labeled traitors and anyone pointing out the unfairness being mocked and dismissed.

I have never seen so much complete and utter hypocrisy in my life.  I am seeing more personalization, attacks, condensending comnents, and and dismissiveness occuring.  

It takes no mental gymnastics to see what nastiness and spitefulness exists on the left and how they are creating two diametrically opposite judicial systems depending soley upon the politics of the accused.  I highly value free speech and i highly value a justice system that judges cases fairly without regard to politics or race or any other nonrelevant fact.  I don't see people on the left valuing either and we are entering a new era of McCarthyism, Red Scare II.

Edited by jon_mx
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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

What is more amazing is how the left can go from hero-worshiping protestors and completely ignoring cities being burnt down, businesses being looted, people being murdered, cities being taken over, already hurting businesses being destroyed and all we hear is how 'mostly peaceful' these protestors are.  People in the media, TV stars, sports figures all cellobrating and supporting the protestors and completely denying that any protestor has anything to do with the surrounding mayhem and even suggesting it must be those evil white racists instigating all the violence.(1)

Then when one Trump supporting protest gets out of control, we see all the prorestors labled as treasonous, we see attempts to throw the book at people who engaged in zero violence, we see McCarthyism style tactics of people who are politically aligned to Trump, people associated with the protests losing their jobs, guardsmen being questioned for their loyalty to their country.  People being labeled traitors and anyone pointing out the unfairness being mocked and dismissed. (2)

I have never seen so much complete and utter hypocrisy in my life. (3) I am seeing more personalization, attacks, condensending comnents, and and dismissiveness occuring.  

It takes no mental gymnastics to see what nastiness and spitefulness exists on the left and how they are creating two diametrically opposite judicial systems depending soley upon the politics of the accused. (4)  I highly value free speech and i highly value a justice system that judges cases fairly without regard to politics or race or any other nonrelevant fact.  I don't see people on the left valuing either and we are entering a new era of McCarthyism, Red Scare II.

(1) didn't happen.  When you say "the left", this implies that 100% of everyone to the left of center politically held the views you describe.  I could easily refute that by finding one person who was concerned about the looting etc.  Stop with the hyperbole.  I don't think many, if anyone, completely supported all protestors and completely ignoring the violence. Stop it.

(2) stop it.  No one is saying all Trump supporters were treasonous.  People are explicitly saying anyone who broke into the damn capital with intent to disrupt the counting of the electoral college is an insurectionist.

(3) I would like to agree but the utter and sheer level of hypocrisy we all saw over the past 5 years...im still shocked by it, but I shouldn't be. As for "personalization, attacks, condensending comnents, and and dismissiveness," perhaps you haven't listened to talk radio over the past few years?  Seems to me this very accurately describes a particular radio host who was on between 12:00 and 3:00 Eastern every day...he had the highest rated show out there.  And it's not just the host, it's the audience that are it all up.

(4) you're an some people are treated differently by law enforcement and the legal system than others?  Almost as if they are a second class of person entirely?  Interesting.

Edited by moleculo
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7 minutes ago, moleculo said:

(1) didn't happen.  When you say "the left", this implies that 100% of everyone to the left of center politically held the views you describe.  I could easily refute that by finding one person who was concerned about the looting etc.  Stop with the hyperbole.  I don't think many, if anyone, completely supported all protestors and completely ignoring the violence. Stop it.

(2) stop it.  No one is saying all Trump supporters were treasonous.  People are explicitly saying anyone who broke into the damn capital with intent to disrupt the counting of the electoral college is an insurectionist.

(3) I would like to agree but the utter and sheer level of hypocrisy we all saw over the past 5 years...im still shocked by it, but I shouldn't be.

(4) you're an some people are treated differently by law enforcement and the legal system than others?  Almost as if they are a second class of person entirely?  Interesting.

Not 100 percent, just the predominant and most vocal majority. 

Edited by jon_mx
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2 hours ago, The General said:

This guy

Poor fella

He's just a regular guy being persecuted for his political views, right?  Him breaking into the office of the Speaker of the House and interrupting the constitutional duties of congress is totally the same thing looting, yet this guy gets arrested?

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15 minutes ago, moleculo said:

He's just a regular guy being persecuted for his political views, right?  Him breaking into the office of the Speaker of the House and interrupting the constitutional duties of congress is totally the same thing looting, yet this guy gets arrested?

He broke into Pelosi's office, sat in her chair and took a letter....oh the horrors.  Meanwhile people who set dumpsters on fire and pushed them into gas stations are heros and people like Rittenhouse who tried to prevent such terroristic acts are evil villians. 

Edited by jon_mx
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4 hours ago, jon_mx said:

He broke into Pelosi's office, sat in her chair and took a letter....oh the horrors.  Meanwhile people who set dumpsters on fire and pushed them into gas stations are heros and people like Rittenhouse who tried to prevent such terroristic acts are evil villians. 

My view on these events - 

- He deserves everything coming to him.  It was on federal property.

- The rioters were wrong also.

- Rittenhouse, who knows how that shakes out.  I lean to the same treatment as the rioters.  they may want to make an example out of him also.  

Edited by FairWarning
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4 hours ago, jon_mx said:

He broke into Pelosi's office, sat in her chair and took a letter....oh the horrors.  Meanwhile people who set dumpsters on fire and pushed them into gas stations are heros and people like Rittenhouse who tried to prevent such terroristic acts are evil villians. 

You serious Clark?  I don't recall any serious media member or politician calling any arsonist a hero. 

As for Rittenhouse he is nothing if not a vigilante.  The man literally killed multile people while committing a crime (possessing a gun while under age) yet he is a hero to the alt-right.

All this while you downplay an insurrectionist breaking into the capital.  So very odd.  

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/05/trump-federico-klein-capitol-riot/

On Thursday, the FBI arrested a political appointee of former president Donald Trump on charges that he stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, according to a criminal complaint, marking the first member of the administration arrested in connection with the insurrection.

Federal agents arrested Federico G. Klein, 42, a former State Department aide, on multiple felony charges related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, according to a criminal complaint published by the New York Times. (Politico first reported the arrest.) The State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment early Friday.

Klein, who is also a former Trump campaign employee, did not immediately respond to a request for comment early Friday. It is unclear if he has hired a lawyer.

Klein was still employed at the State Department as a staff assistant on Jan. 6 when he joined a mob in a tunnel leading into the U.S. Capitol, the FBI said. Then he allegedly “physically and verbally engaged with the officers holding the line” at the building’s entrance, according to the complaint. After ignoring officers’ orders to move back, he assaulted officers with a riot shield that had been stolen from police, the complaint said, and then used the shield to wedge open a door into the Capitol.

At one point, Klein was caught on video shouting for more insurrectionists to come to the front lines, where officers were struggling to hold back the mob.

“We need fresh people, need fresh people,” he said, according to the complaint.

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11 minutes ago, massraider said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/05/trump-federico-klein-capitol-riot/

On Thursday, the FBI arrested a political appointee of former president Donald Trump on charges that he stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, according to a criminal complaint, marking the first member of the administration arrested in connection with the insurrection.

Federal agents arrested Federico G. Klein, 42, a former State Department aide, on multiple felony charges related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, according to a criminal complaint published by the New York Times. (Politico first reported the arrest.) The State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment early Friday.

Klein, who is also a former Trump campaign employee, did not immediately respond to a request for comment early Friday. It is unclear if he has hired a lawyer.

Klein was still employed at the State Department as a staff assistant on Jan. 6 when he joined a mob in a tunnel leading into the U.S. Capitol, the FBI said. Then he allegedly “physically and verbally engaged with the officers holding the line” at the building’s entrance, according to the complaint. After ignoring officers’ orders to move back, he assaulted officers with a riot shield that had been stolen from police, the complaint said, and then used the shield to wedge open a door into the Capitol.

At one point, Klein was caught on video shouting for more insurrectionists to come to the front lines, where officers were struggling to hold back the mob.

“We need fresh people, need fresh people,” he said, according to the complaint.

Is it really his fault though?  I mean, he didn't have a police officer assigned to keep him from doing bad things :shrug: 

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13 minutes ago, massraider said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/05/trump-federico-klein-capitol-riot/

On Thursday, the FBI arrested a political appointee of former president Donald Trump on charges that he stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, according to a criminal complaint, marking the first member of the administration arrested in connection with the insurrection.

Federal agents arrested Federico G. Klein, 42, a former State Department aide, on multiple felony charges related to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, according to a criminal complaint published by the New York Times. (Politico first reported the arrest.) The State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment early Friday.

Klein, who is also a former Trump campaign employee, did not immediately respond to a request for comment early Friday. It is unclear if he has hired a lawyer.

Klein was still employed at the State Department as a staff assistant on Jan. 6 when he joined a mob in a tunnel leading into the U.S. Capitol, the FBI said. Then he allegedly “physically and verbally engaged with the officers holding the line” at the building’s entrance, according to the complaint. After ignoring officers’ orders to move back, he assaulted officers with a riot shield that had been stolen from police, the complaint said, and then used the shield to wedge open a door into the Capitol.

At one point, Klein was caught on video shouting for more insurrectionists to come to the front lines, where officers were struggling to hold back the mob.

“We need fresh people, need fresh people,” he said, according to the complaint.

They should have kept his name anonymous and referred to him as a senior white house official. More bang for the buck. 

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8 hours ago, zoonation said:

It continues to amaze me how people do pretend to not understand the difference btw the summer riots and the insurrection.  

Fixed.

Edited by Rich Conway
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9 hours ago, jon_mx said:

Then when one Trump supporting protest gets out of control, we see all the prorestors labled as treasonous, we see attempts to throw the book at people who engaged in zero violence, we see McCarthyism style tactics of people who are politically aligned to Trump, people associated with the protests losing their jobs, guardsmen being questioned for their loyalty to their country.  People being labeled traitors and anyone pointing out the unfairness being mocked and dismissed.

Um...feel like you're glossing this one pretty hard bud.

8 hours ago, zoonation said:

It continues to amaze me how people do not understand the difference btw the summer riots and the insurrection.  

This

8 hours ago, jon_mx said:

He broke into Pelosi's office, sat in her chair and took a letter....oh the horrors.  Meanwhile people who set dumpsters on fire and pushed them into gas stations are heros and people like Rittenhouse who tried to prevent such terroristic acts are evil villians. 

You could stop after office. You can't do that, under any circumstances, peaceful or otherwise. If you can gloss over this simple understanding then we can't have a discussion.

And to be clear, that's a statement not plea to have a conversation with you or anyone else.

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Donald Trump organized an insurrection on the U.S. Capitol. He chose the date and the place. He and his allies in Congress were in touch with the groups involved in breaching the Capitol. Then he stalled the National Guard response for hours, after having made changes to key positions in the government during his lame duck period to help facilitate this. He and many of his allies still will not concede that he lost the election. This series of events is probably the most dangerous single threat our Democracy has faced in our lifetimes.

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8 hours ago, jon_mx said:

He broke into Pelosi's office, sat in her chair and took a letter....oh the horrors.  Meanwhile people who set dumpsters on fire and pushed them into gas stations are heros and people like Rittenhouse who tried to prevent such terroristic acts are evil villians. 

Who won the 2020 Presidential election? 

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8 hours ago, jon_mx said:

He broke into Pelosi's office, sat in her chair and took a letter....oh the horrors.  Meanwhile people who set dumpsters on fire and pushed them into gas stations are heros and people like Rittenhouse who tried to prevent such terroristic acts are evil villians. 

If Rittenhouse were in DC on Jan 6th who would he have been shooting?

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

They should have kept his name anonymous and referred to him as a senior white house official. More bang for the buck. 

He seems like a real peach. 

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31 minutes ago, The General said:

If Rittenhouse were in DC on Jan 6th who would he have been shooting?

Everyone who was chasing him down with the intent to kill him.  Which probabl would have been nobody.  But liberals are of this odd opinion that people on the right have no rights such as that of self-defense and even view them as animals..

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

Everyone who was chasing him down with the intent to kill him.  Which probabl would have been nobody.  But liberals are of this odd opinion that people on the right have no rights such as that of self-defense and even view them as animals..

Would he have been shooting the police who were attacking the patriots? The people breaking into the Capitol? The people spreading poo on the walls? The police who drew weapons on the patriots? The people who were beating police? 🤔

 

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41 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Um...feel like you're glossing this one pretty hard bud.

This

You could stop after office. You can't do that, under any circumstances, peaceful or otherwise. If you can gloss over this simple understanding then we can't have a discussion.

And to be clear, that's a statement not plea to have a conversation with you or anyone else.

I am not denying that is illegal and he should be charged with that.  But treating him as a terrorist and saying he had an intent to kill or part of some well planned out conspiracy to overthrow the government is absurd.  

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Just now, The General said:

Would he have been shooting the police who were attacking the patriots? The people breaking into the Capitol? The people spreading poo on the walls? The police who drew weapons on the patriots? The people who were beating police? 🤔

 

This is really stupid.  He shot people he were actively attacking him with the intent to cause grave harm and the one with the gun out stated his intent to kill Rittenhouse.  He was not shootng anyone who was engaging in arson or at police.  He was running from people and each one he shot were actively attempting to assault him.   The way liberals twist facts and view people on the right is absolutely disgusting. 

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Just now, jon_mx said:

This is really stupid.  He shot people he were actively attacking him with the intent to cause grave harm and the one with the gun out stated his intent to kill Rittenhouse.  He was not shootng anyone who was engaging in arson or at police.  He was running from people and each one he shot were actively attempting to assault him.   The way liberals twist facts and view people on the right is absolutely disgusting. 

Yeah. Who would he have shot if he were at the Capitol on Jan 6th?

Sweet kid BTW

 

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14 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Everyone who was chasing him down with the intent to kill him.  Which probabl would have been nobody.  But liberals are of this odd opinion that people on the right have no rights such as that of self-defense and even view them as animals..

literally no one said that.

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9 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I am not denying that is illegal and he should be charged with that.  But treating him as a terrorist and saying he had an intent to kill or part of some well planned out conspiracy to overthrow the government is absurd.  

without a doubt he had full intent to interfere with congress from certifying the election as they are obligated to do under Amendment 12 of the US constitution. 

This wasn't a simple B&E, and this is nothing like busting the windows of your local Auto Zone in the middle of a race riot.

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10 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

This is really stupid.  He shot people he were actively attacking him with the intent to cause grave harm and the one with the gun out stated his intent to kill Rittenhouse.  He was not shootng anyone who was engaging in arson or at police.  He was running from people and each one he shot were actively attempting to assault him.   The way liberals twist facts and view people on the right is absolutely disgusting. 

while he was there, uninvited, and armed with a gun he legally wasn't allowed to carry (because he was 17). 

Rittenhouse was NOT there as a member of law enforcement and he wasn't hired as private security.  He was there on his own accord.  That, my friend, is vigilantism....or, is this one of those laws that conservatives prefer to ignore?

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14 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

This is really stupid.  He shot people he were actively attacking him with the intent to cause grave harm and the one with the gun out stated his intent to kill Rittenhouse.  He was not shootng anyone who was engaging in arson or at police.  He was running from people and each one he shot were actively attempting to assault him.   The way liberals twist facts and view people on the right is absolutely disgusting. 

What was really stupid is this kid thinking that he was law enforcement.  Perhaps his intentions were good that night but the people he shot and killed would likely be alive today if he would have obeyed the law and stayed home.

Edited by Godsbrother
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Just now, Godsbrother said:

What was really stupid is this kid thinking that he was law enforcement.  Perhaps his intentions were good that night but the people he shot and killed would likely be alive today.

this is precisely why we can't have random people running around LARPing as policeman.  intentions are fine and dandy but a 17 year old kid hasn't had the (admittedly minimal) training police have, nor has his brain sufficiently developed to accurately judge risk/reward or fight/flight scenarios.  There is a reason kids aren't adults.

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25 minutes ago, moleculo said:

this is precisely why we can't have random people running around LARPing as policeman.  intentions are fine and dandy but a 17 year old kid hasn't had the (admittedly minimal) training police have, nor has his brain sufficiently developed to accurately judge risk/reward or fight/flight scenarios.  There is a reason kids aren't adults.

A bunch of armed BLM dudes should have been standing guard at the Capitol protecting the place. 

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2 hours ago, moleculo said:

while he was there, uninvited, and armed with a gun he legally wasn't allowed to carry (because he was 17). 

Rittenhouse was NOT there as a member of law enforcement and he wasn't hired as private security.  He was there on his own accord.  That, my friend, is vigilantism....or, is this one of those laws that conservatives prefer to ignore?

What are you talking about?  He had every right to be there as the thugs, i mean protesters, who were there to burn, pillage and loot.  Who invited those people?  What about the legality of assaulting people?  Last i heard that was illegal.  

No matter how in the wrong people on the left are, they will always be blameless and all the fault will lie on the other side.  I wish the left had one ounce of a balanced viewpoint, but it doesn't.  

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2 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

What was really stupid is this kid thinking that he was law enforcement.  Perhaps his intentions were good that night but the people he shot and killed would likely be alive today if he would have obeyed the law and stayed home.

Sure and if those three 'victims' did not go there to set the town on fire and assault people who got in their way, they would not have gotten shot either.  But blame the kid.  

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