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☠ ☠ ☠ Official 2021 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☠ ☠ ☠ - only 3.5 more months of talking about draft reaches until real football arrives


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Screw 2020 in every possible way.  Good riddance to you.

The Autumn Wind is a pirate
Blustering in from sea,
With a rollicking song, he sweeps along,
Swaggering boisterously.

His face is weather beaten.
He wears a hooded sash,
With a silver hat about his head,
And a bristling black mustache.

He growls as he storms the country,
A villain big and bold.
And the trees all shake and quiver and quake,
As he robs them of their gold.

The Autumn Wind is a raider,
Pillaging just for fun.
He'll knock you 'round and upside down,
And laugh when he's conquered and won.

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Third straight consecutive year of record improvement. Top 10 in scoring. Waller breaking Timmy Brown's reception record. B2B 1K yard seasons for Jacobs.

After a season like this, and knowing the Raiders fans we have on this board, there is a lot to criticize. And we will criticize it endlessly. 

We saw the glimmer of what could be if our offense is healthy and clicking. We hoped for more. We deserve more, dammit.

But we got what we got, with a horrendous D, improvement in play calling and player utilization needed, and a more-than-the-average-bear dose of COVID to boot culminating in the same last half season collapse that we saw last year.

But despite the bitter taste this season left in our mouths, let's not forget about the positives we saw:

  • Derek Carr is a great QB. Period.
  • We saw the beginnings of an identity emerge. An efficient offense that can push the pace with any team in the league. And a D that is willing to lay wood anytime, anywhere (though arguably being a little less willing will help keep us healthy and focused on tackling, not highlight reels).
  • The triumvirate of Carr, Waller, and Jacobs is beyond super solid, and among the best offensive trios in the league.
  • While we may still lack a true #1 WR, our WR core is serviceable. Agholor played incredibly this year, and Ruggs, Renfrow, and Edwards will be better next year, I am certain.
  • We won't have Guenther

Lots to build on. Tons of needs, all on D which is where I hope we solely focus in the draft (outside looking for great value in O-line, as I fear we'll be turning over some leaves here in the off-season).

Look forward, not back. Future is still brighter than not.

 

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18 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Third straight consecutive year of record improvement. Top 10 in scoring. Waller breaking Timmy Brown's reception record. B2B 1K yard seasons for Jacobs.

After a season like this, and knowing the Raiders fans we have on this board, there is a lot to criticize. And we will criticize it endlessly. 

We saw the glimmer of what could be if our offense is healthy and clicking. We hoped for more. We deserve more, dammit.

But we got what we got, with a horrendous D, improvement in play calling and player utilization needed, and a more-than-the-average-bear dose of COVID to boot culminating in the same last half season collapse that we saw last year.

But despite the bitter taste this season left in our mouths, let's not forget about the positives we saw:

  • Derek Carr is a great QB. Period.
  • We saw the beginnings of an identity emerge. An efficient offense that can push the pace with any team in the league. And a D that is willing to lay wood anytime, anywhere (though arguably being a little less willing will help keep us healthy and focused on tackling, not highlight reels).
  • The triumvirate of Carr, Waller, and Jacobs is beyond super solid, and among the best offensive trios in the league.
  • While we may still lack a true #1 WR, our WR core is serviceable. Agholor played incredibly this year, and Ruggs, Renfrow, and Edwards will be better next year, I am certain.
  • We won't have Guenther

Lots to build on. Tons of needs, all on D which is where I hope we solely focus in the draft (outside looking for great value in O-line, as I fear we'll be turning over some leaves here in the off-season).

Look forward, not back. Future is still brighter than not.

 

If Gruden can simply draft the best defensive player available during the draft, the team will improve in 2021.  Can he play it smart and do that or will he continue to draft poorly?   We will find out in a few months.  

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Almost wished we lost this last game to Denver just to give us a higher draft pick but looking at the draft order now (with SOS tie breaker) that would’ve literally only moved us up one draft spot from 17 to 16 so...eff the Broncos. Glad we beat em!!! :)

 

D, D and more D. Stop ####### around, Gruden and Mayock. Just draft BPA D across the board. 

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DC is the big priority and I think will make a big difference. 

If Denver fires Vic Fangio then he would be my top pick. I don't think he is a good HC but a great DC. Rod may be kept around, bringing him on board felt like Gruden was bringing him on board on case he needed to fire Guenther. If Atlanta doesn't go with Raheem Morris then he is someone I think would get the nod with his history with Gruden and being a good DC history. We talked about Wade Phillips but that would be a big philosophy change qnd Gruden has never had a 3-4 D. Matt Patricia? I am somewhat biased against anything Patriot related but he did well as theirs. Maybe someone else? Heck, I saw Charles Woodson thrown out there. I LOVE him. He is one of my favorite all time but I would not want him as DC being he has had no experience. 

Draft wise I am on board with D and more D, but if we move on from Trent Brown we need a new RT. Young is not someone we want starting for us. 

That being said Gruden seemed to indicate that they expect to keep him on board: “We’ll play the next man up but hope to get Trent back and ready to roll for next season,” Gruden said. “Trent’s a great player. … He’s just got to get healthy and stay healthy.”

I actually thought Parker was better for us than Young. Heck, even Good was better.

If Incognito has enough in the tank for another year then that is great,  if not, I am good to roll with Good at LG and Simpson at depth.

So, assuming we keep Brown then D, D and more D. 

Ferrell, Crosby, Abram, Kwiat, Arnette and Mullen are all young and decent pieces to a D but need more development and more around. 

McMillan can be a good rotational LB for short yardage and heavy run situations. Just not one for passing (which is why Miami traded him away). 

Littleton and Nassib are likely not going to be cut as I don't think there is much cap saved. In today's game, Littleton looked to have improved a bit today so hopefully a good DC can get him playing at the level we signed him. 

Cap is tight so there will need to be cuts and/or contract restructuring. 

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By position:

QB - we're fine with Carr.  He's at least very good and possibly great.  He's closer to 2016 form than 2019 and that's a good thing.  I'd be ok if we took a shot at a true franchise guy but those are either too expensive (veteran) or too risky (draft pick) to invest in so if we do we're resetting a clock because the D won't get fixed.  Carr has shown that he's good enough to win a bunch of games if he gets support.  Best case we draft a developmental guy in round 4 or later and see if we can't hit the lottery - a Kellen Mond or Ehlinger type  Mariotta is a fine backup.

RB - same as QB.  Maybe not elite but definitely good enough.  Booker was a solid backup, maybe too solid as we went to him too often and didn't work the superior talent into the passing game enough.  Another late draft pick or FA/UDFA for depth and development.

WR - here it is.  This is what will determine our next few years.  We know what Agholor is and Renfro is a fun effort WR4 but we need a true #1 and #2.  Ruggs and Edwards need to step up and develop.  I'm not going to be overly critical of a rookie WR especially given what 2020 was but in today's league there is no "3 year rule" for these guys - they need to produce.  Another position to invest in late simply because it's so easy to find contributors - Tyreek Hill, Diggs, Thielen were all 5th or later and even solid/upside guys like Keelan Cole, David Moore, Gabe Davis are all over the place too.

TE - locked in.  Elite asset in Waller, solid with Moreau, and a couple of blockers mixed in.

OL - keep working depth.  We're not particularly young especially at interior OL.  Hudson is great but will eventually break down and Incognito already has.  Depth is always important and while we showed solid performance and depth it's never bad to keep investing.  Sign a couple vets and maybe draft someone in mid rounds.

DL - bad.  Love Croby as an effort guy but the reality is he's overmatched and the only reason he looks good at moments is because he gets so many chances.  He's a guy that gets few snaps and provides solid depth on a decent D.  Might have to accept Ferrell is an overinvestment - we got a solid/good one but not one that pays dividends given the investment level.  Reminds me of the Gallery pick - you don't take guards in the top 5 but that's what he ended up being, and pretty solid there once we admitted it.  The DT aren't anything special and need upgraded badly.  Hurst looked like a steal but hasn't played to that and Hankins is just a guy.  This is where our early investments need to be - get a pass rush.

LB - awful.  Kwiat is like Crosby - he's fun to root for as an effort guy and he looks good because he makes some plays, but he only is because no one can beat him to the ball (but should be).  Another guy that wouldn't sniff the staring lineup in a lot of places but he's the best we have so he gets the call.  Not sure what was up with Littleton, and I always thought he was a bit overrated in LAR but wow he didn't produce anything.  We need a DC to unlock him, that's a huge investment wasted so far.  I wouldn't hate some equity put into this position either but I think good coaching can turn this into a contributing area pretty quickly.

DB - terrible.  Mullen had some moments but was truly awful at others.  Grabbed anything that moved and cried when flagged.  Play ball dude.  I thought we got a bargain with him and am still hopeful he can improve - maybe with a pass rush that doesn't let the QB have a cup of tea while the WR works him over will help.  Arnette was another guy that looks like an overinvestment after year 1 but CB more than any other position can develop over time.  Another guy that new coaching needs to get more out of.  I'd move Abram to LB myself, he's too often a liability as a DB when he's headhunting and he doesn't make enough special plays to justify the risks he takes.  I think he'd be more valuable in a Big Nickel role.  The good news is it's easy to find S play - the bad news is we've failed miserably so far.

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Decent write up. What really strikes me is common denominator between Mullen's and Arnette's college careers. Both played behind awesome defensive lines that may have skewed their actual ability. Once they played behind a below average dline (that is a generous description) it magnified their shortcomings. Until the Raiders get dline players that can consistently impact the game they will struggle in coverage. 

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3 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

By position:

QB - we're fine with Carr.  He's at least very good and possibly great.  He's closer to 2016 form than 2019 and that's a good thing.  I'd be ok if we took a shot at a true franchise guy but those are either too expensive (veteran) or too risky (draft pick) to invest in so if we do we're resetting a clock because the D won't get fixed.  Carr has shown that he's good enough to win a bunch of games if he gets support.  Best case we draft a developmental guy in round 4 or later and see if we can't hit the lottery - a Kellen Mond or Ehlinger type  Mariotta is a fine backup.

RB - same as QB.  Maybe not elite but definitely good enough.  Booker was a solid backup, maybe too solid as we went to him too often and didn't work the superior talent into the passing game enough.  Another late draft pick or FA/UDFA for depth and development.

WR - here it is.  This is what will determine our next few years.  We know what Agholor is and Renfro is a fun effort WR4 but we need a true #1 and #2.  Ruggs and Edwards need to step up and develop.  I'm not going to be overly critical of a rookie WR especially given what 2020 was but in today's league there is no "3 year rule" for these guys - they need to produce.  Another position to invest in late simply because it's so easy to find contributors - Tyreek Hill, Diggs, Thielen were all 5th or later and even solid/upside guys like Keelan Cole, David Moore, Gabe Davis are all over the place too.

TE - locked in.  Elite asset in Waller, solid with Moreau, and a couple of blockers mixed in.

OL - keep working depth.  We're not particularly young especially at interior OL.  Hudson is great but will eventually break down and Incognito already has.  Depth is always important and while we showed solid performance and depth it's never bad to keep investing.  Sign a couple vets and maybe draft someone in mid rounds.

DL - bad.  Love Croby as an effort guy but the reality is he's overmatched and the only reason he looks good at moments is because he gets so many chances.  He's a guy that gets few snaps and provides solid depth on a decent D.  Might have to accept Ferrell is an overinvestment - we got a solid/good one but not one that pays dividends given the investment level.  Reminds me of the Gallery pick - you don't take guards in the top 5 but that's what he ended up being, and pretty solid there once we admitted it.  The DT aren't anything special and need upgraded badly.  Hurst looked like a steal but hasn't played to that and Hankins is just a guy.  This is where our early investments need to be - get a pass rush.

LB - awful.  Kwiat is like Crosby - he's fun to root for as an effort guy and he looks good because he makes some plays, but he only is because no one can beat him to the ball (but should be).  Another guy that wouldn't sniff the staring lineup in a lot of places but he's the best we have so he gets the call.  Not sure what was up with Littleton, and I always thought he was a bit overrated in LAR but wow he didn't produce anything.  We need a DC to unlock him, that's a huge investment wasted so far.  I wouldn't hate some equity put into this position either but I think good coaching can turn this into a contributing area pretty quickly.

DB - terrible.  Mullen had some moments but was truly awful at others.  Grabbed anything that moved and cried when flagged.  Play ball dude.  I thought we got a bargain with him and am still hopeful he can improve - maybe with a pass rush that doesn't let the QB have a cup of tea while the WR works him over will help.  Arnette was another guy that looks like an overinvestment after year 1 but CB more than any other position can develop over time.  Another guy that new coaching needs to get more out of.  I'd move Abram to LB myself, he's too often a liability as a DB when he's headhunting and he doesn't make enough special plays to justify the risks he takes.  I think he'd be more valuable in a Big Nickel role.  The good news is it's easy to find S play - the bad news is we've failed miserably so far.

Sound analysis, lots to agree with.

A few I think you got wrong:

  • Close but no cigar on DL. You sell Crosby short -- the guy is often double-teamed and he's been our only force up front despite teams knowing he's the guy to focus on. It's one thing for a small school, late-round prospect to turn out to be really good, but another to have him become a core focus of the offense. He's shown he can excel against the NFL's best. He is far from elite, and I'd hesitate to call him great, but he is by far our best defensive player, and has nothing to do with him looking good by comparison to his teammates -- it's in comparison to the talent across the line. The guy finished tied in sacks with Quinnen Williams, and was a 1/2 sack behind Chubb, Cameron Jordan, Joey Bosa, etc. -- guys considered elite talents. And he's done it consistently since coming into the league. 
  • Cle has some work before he can be considered at the same level but he's improving YoY. Both Cle and Crosby are far from bad. They can be better with better interior help. 
  • Same with Kwiatkowski. The rest of our LB corps were trash in comparison, sure -- but using that as a reason to call him awful is misguided at best. He absolutely lifted the D when he was on the field -- he is a solid defensive quarterback who can make plays in coverage against any skill position, and is good in clogging the middle. The guy is talented, smart, and has a great nose for the ball.
  • Trayveon Mullen has steadily improved and is one of our most dependable corners. He has indeed made some mistakes but he's by far our best. That's not saying much, so agree there is tons of room for improvement. I think with the right coaching and hopefully some solid FA veteran signings, both Arnette and Abram can improve -- both look to be capable but still really, really green. They need to be coached and get better in coverage, not just laying out wood -- for the good of the team and their careers. At 6 feet/205, Abram is about 25 pounds too light to be a LB, not sure I get the take about moving him. I think both will be fine and even have the ability to turn into one of the better CB/Safety Combos if they get the right coaching.

We have a huge hole in LB and CB, and can use some shoring up at safety. It was good to see guys like Morrow improve in the last month or so, but that doesn't make up for the liability he's been until now. Littleton is a bust, and Raekwon McMillan had a few good snaps in these last few games but we need another credible thread on our LB core so Kwiatkowski doesn't have to do it all.

At safety, Harris and Heath are expendable, and not sure we've seen anything from Dallin Leavitt to think we shouldn't ship him either. 

We have a lot of people at CB, none of them particularly solid -- may be too early to call on Isaiah Johnson and Amik Robertson, but Lawson, Nixon, and Worley are absolutely guys we should look to be shedding for better options.

I don't know tons about the upcoming rookie crop but this year looks to be thin on blue chip D prospects overall, so would love this team to address DT, LB, CB, and S through FA, not just in the draft. We need to get better now, and one failing I put on Gruden and Mayock this year is not getting someone in at DT to help us. Hankins and Hurst might turn into depnedable rotational players, but we need a difference maker there right now, and neither of these guys are it.

Who should we have our eyes on in terms of these positions of need, and who might be there for us at #17? We have 7 picks overall in 2021, IIRC.

Some possibilities are below, but would love opinions on those who are more versed on the college landscape to call out some great prospects we can expect to be there for us at picks 17, 48, 81, 112, 146, 179, and 212:

DT:

  • Kwity Paye, Michigan
  • Haskell Garrett, Ohio State
  • Phidarian Mathis, Alabama
  • Bobby Brown III, Texas A&M

LB: 

  • Jeremaiah Owusu-Koramoah, Notre Dame
  • Nick Bolton, Missouri
  • Joseph Ossai, Texas
  • Dylan Moses, Alabama

CB

  • Patrcik Surtain II, Alabama
  • Asante Samuel Jr., Florida State
  • Derion Kendrick, Clemson
  • Jaycee Horn, South Carolina

S

  • Jevon Holland, Oregon
  • Andres Cisco, Syracuse
  • Hamsah Nasirildeen, Florida State
  • Trevon Moehrig or Ar'Darius Washington, TCU

 

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1 hour ago, kaso said:

oh oh... 2021 off season starting with a Jacobs DUI?  ugh. 

Jacobs seems like such a solid guy in terms of where his priorities are, this was disappointing to read. 

Hard to remember that this guy is barely more than a kid at 22. Made plenty of mistakes myself at that age, but with such a promising career, hoped he would have his head screwed on straighter than to get into a car after drinking. Nothing is worth risking your career -- or the life of others, let alone yours -- over driving while intoxicated when it is so easily avoided.

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From today's press conference, this is what Gruden wants in a DC

  • Great communicator
  • Ability to develop players
  • Ability to utilize positional coaches
  • A history of success
  • Strong day to day work ethic
  • Great knowledge of the offenses he needs to stop 
  • people person
  • great drive
  • a want to be a Raider

Secondarily, he wants to be a 4-3 defense if they can.

 

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Gus Bradley as DC?   Has to better than anything we have had in a long time.   Really need some talent to go with it though.   There is a big difference between what Bradley was coaching at the Chargers compared to the Raiders. 

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37 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Gus Bradley as DC?   Has to better than anything we have had in a long time.   Really need some talent to go with it though.   There is a big difference between what Bradley was coaching at the Chargers compared to the Raiders. 

With Lynn being fired Gus jumps up the probability rankings. It is reported we have shown interest in wanting to meet with him. 

Other names are Raheem Morris (not surprisingly) and Joe Barry (seems Rod has a lot of pull with Gruden). Also mentioned is Gregg Williams (I don't want him). 

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11 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

With Lynn being fired Gus jumps up the probability rankings. It is reported we have shown interest in wanting to meet with him. 

Other names are Raheem Morris (not surprisingly) and Joe Barry (seems Rod has a lot of pull with Gruden). Also mentioned is Gregg Williams (I don't want him). 

Morris is interesting.   With you on Williams.   No thanks.  

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1 hour ago, kaso said:

From today's press conference, this is what Gruden wants in a DC

  • Great communicator
  • Ability to develop players
  • Ability to utilize positional coaches
  • A history of success
  • Strong day to day work ethic
  • Great knowledge of the offenses he needs to stop 
  • people person
  • great drive
  • a want to be a Raider

Secondarily, he wants to be a 4-3 defense if they can.

 

That last part eliminates Son of Bum for sure. 

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6 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

By position:

QB - we're fine with Carr.  He's at least very good and possibly great.  He's closer to 2016 form than 2019 and that's a good thing.  I'd be ok if we took a shot at a true franchise guy but those are either too expensive (veteran) or too risky (draft pick) to invest in so if we do we're resetting a clock because the D won't get fixed.  Carr has shown that he's good enough to win a bunch of games if he gets support.  Best case we draft a developmental guy in round 4 or later and see if we can't hit the lottery - a Kellen Mond or Ehlinger type  Mariotta is a fine backup.

RB - same as QB.  Maybe not elite but definitely good enough.  Booker was a solid backup, maybe too solid as we went to him too often and didn't work the superior talent into the passing game enough.  Another late draft pick or FA/UDFA for depth and development.

WR - here it is.  This is what will determine our next few years.  We know what Agholor is and Renfro is a fun effort WR4 but we need a true #1 and #2.  Ruggs and Edwards need to step up and develop.  I'm not going to be overly critical of a rookie WR especially given what 2020 was but in today's league there is no "3 year rule" for these guys - they need to produce.  Another position to invest in late simply because it's so easy to find contributors - Tyreek Hill, Diggs, Thielen were all 5th or later and even solid/upside guys like Keelan Cole, David Moore, Gabe Davis are all over the place too.

TE - locked in.  Elite asset in Waller, solid with Moreau, and a couple of blockers mixed in.

OL - keep working depth.  We're not particularly young especially at interior OL.  Hudson is great but will eventually break down and Incognito already has.  Depth is always important and while we showed solid performance and depth it's never bad to keep investing.  Sign a couple vets and maybe draft someone in mid rounds.

DL - bad.  Love Croby as an effort guy but the reality is he's overmatched and the only reason he looks good at moments is because he gets so many chances.  He's a guy that gets few snaps and provides solid depth on a decent D.  Might have to accept Ferrell is an overinvestment - we got a solid/good one but not one that pays dividends given the investment level.  Reminds me of the Gallery pick - you don't take guards in the top 5 but that's what he ended up being, and pretty solid there once we admitted it.  The DT aren't anything special and need upgraded badly.  Hurst looked like a steal but hasn't played to that and Hankins is just a guy.  This is where our early investments need to be - get a pass rush.

LB - awful.  Kwiat is like Crosby - he's fun to root for as an effort guy and he looks good because he makes some plays, but he only is because no one can beat him to the ball (but should be).  Another guy that wouldn't sniff the staring lineup in a lot of places but he's the best we have so he gets the call.  Not sure what was up with Littleton, and I always thought he was a bit overrated in LAR but wow he didn't produce anything.  We need a DC to unlock him, that's a huge investment wasted so far.  I wouldn't hate some equity put into this position either but I think good coaching can turn this into a contributing area pretty quickly.

DB - terrible.  Mullen had some moments but was truly awful at others.  Grabbed anything that moved and cried when flagged.  Play ball dude.  I thought we got a bargain with him and am still hopeful he can improve - maybe with a pass rush that doesn't let the QB have a cup of tea while the WR works him over will help.  Arnette was another guy that looks like an overinvestment after year 1 but CB more than any other position can develop over time.  Another guy that new coaching needs to get more out of.  I'd move Abram to LB myself, he's too often a liability as a DB when he's headhunting and he doesn't make enough special plays to justify the risks he takes.  I think he'd be more valuable in a Big Nickel role.  The good news is it's easy to find S play - the bad news is we've failed miserably so far.

Good but bones to pick on Crosby, Ferrell qnd Kwiat. 

Maxx and Clelin are better than given credit for (but I understand why they get pooped on being DE's and that position like no other is expected to generate sacks and as a team we struggle with that). 

You said Kwiat wouldn't sniff the starting lineup and I disagree. Chicago has one of the better LB corps in the league and they really agonized over keeping him or Trevathan. They obviously settled on letting Kwiat go but he was very close to staying and being the ILB. 

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My most regretful pick in all of rookie drafts this year was Ruggs. Not sure why I drank the kool-aid. When is the last time a Raiders 1st round WR panned out? Is there ANY hope for him turning it around? To think I passed on Higgins, Gibson, and Claypool for this guy :bag:

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17 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

My most regretful pick in all of rookie drafts this year was Ruggs. Not sure why I drank the kool-aid. When is the last time a Raiders 1st round WR panned out? Is there ANY hope for him turning it around? To think I passed on Higgins, Gibson, and Claypool for this guy :bag:

FF doesn't equal fantasy, but you aren't alone on betting on Ruggs.

As an NFL receiver, I think he turns it around with a proper offseason and one year under his belt.

Whether he becomes elite, or even a solid WR1 -- FF or otherwise -- is yet to be written.

And to answer your question, last time was in 2015 with Cooper. That's also the last time we drafted a WR with the first pick.

So you know, that doesn't happen often -- for us or any team, really -- so the question looking for a track record of our 1st round WRs is likely going to look similar to a lot of teams:

  • DHB (miss, though was serviceable in his career with us and others)
  • Tim Brown (HoF)
  • Jessie Hester (miss)
  • Mike Siani (had a stellar rookie year with multiple team records and runner-up RoTY, and was victim to being behind some stellar WRs on our squad, which is why we eventually traded him), 

That's the entire list of WRs taken in the first round in Raiders history. Batting 50% which is right around the historical hit rate for all 1st round draft selections panning out (~53%).

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

My most regretful pick in all of rookie drafts this year was Ruggs. Not sure why I drank the kool-aid. When is the last time a Raiders 1st round WR panned out? Is there ANY hope for him turning it around? To think I passed on Higgins, Gibson, and Claypool for this guy :bag:

Ruggs is not a WR1.   He’s too small to make contested catches or catch passes over DBs.    He’s good for opening up the field when he’s healthy but that isn’t going to help FF owners.  

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Ruggs is not a WR1.   He’s too small to make contested catches or catch passes over DBs.    He’s good for opening up the field when he’s healthy but that isn’t going to help FF owners.  

Tyreek Hill, Steve Smith, Wes Welker, and DeSean Jackson all say hi.

As Obi Wan wisely said, "Only a Broncos fan deals in absolutes."

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14 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Tyreek Hill, Steve Smith, Wes Welker, and DeSean Jackson all say hi.

As Obi Wan wisely said, "Only a Broncos fan deals in absolutes."

Ruggs doesn’t seem to play with the fire of a Hill or Smith.  Welker and Ruggs play differently.    Welker lived in the middle of the field and that isn’t something Ruggs did this season.    I have often thought that Ruggs could play like DJax.  We will know more 12 months from now.  Until then. I will enjoy the banter. 

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Ruggs doesn’t seem to play with the fire of a Hill or Smith.  Welker and Ruggs play differently.    Welker lived in the middle of the field and that isn’t something Ruggs did this season.    I have often thought that Ruggs could play like DJax.  We will know more 12 months from now.  Until then. I will enjoy the banter. 

I think that may be 'thinking' too much. I could really see it with Renfrow. The first half the season, you could almost see the gears moving as he made any motion at all then later in the season you could see him get more comfortable. Some guys develop at different speeds. I am hoping Ruggs just needs some more time. He is a MUCH better prospect than DHB ever was who was pretty much only raw speed and hope. 

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3 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Ruggs doesn’t seem to play with the fire of a Hill or Smith.  Welker and Ruggs play differently.    Welker lived in the middle of the field and that isn’t something Ruggs did this season.    I have often thought that Ruggs could play like DJax.  We will know more 12 months from now.  Until then. I will enjoy the banter. 

Oh, it's fire you are looking for now? I thought it was just height. ;) 

Welker lived in the middle because he proved himself capable there. We haven't really called plays to send Ruggs there yet, so I am not sure what he can do there -- strangely enough that was his bread and butter in college.

Maybe they indeed think Ruggs needs to gain some weight before they lean on him over the middle against today's safeties and LBs. Maybe they need him to stretch the field to open up those routes. Either way, will definitely enjoy seeing if we can develop him to his full potential. This next season is really going to be a critical one in terms of whether we finally become the team we want to be or not. I was fully willing to give Gruden a few years to get his guys and get this team going. We should have been better, but many pieces are there. If they can't pull it together next year and be a consistent playoff team with some of the clear talent on this squad, it ain't going to happen, I fear.

But I remain hopeful it will.

FWIW, I, too, love the banter with fellow fans that truly bleed Silver and Black -- we don't always agree, which is what makes it fun, but it's been a great space to commiserate and celebrate (though we have had way more of the former than the latter -- such is the life of a Raider fan).

Cheers to all of you, my fellow Raiders brethren. 

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8 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

I think that may be 'thinking' too much. I could really see it with Renfrow. The first half the season, you could almost see the gears moving as he made any motion at all then later in the season you could see him get more comfortable. Some guys develop at different speeds. I am hoping Ruggs just needs some more time. He is a MUCH better prospect than DHB ever was who was pretty much only raw speed and hope. 

DHB was a painful draft selection.   Everyone knew that was a wasted draft pick immediately.   I’m very down on Ruggs but he is already better than DHB.  

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2 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

DHB was a painful draft selection.   Everyone knew that was a wasted draft pick immediately.   I’m very down on Ruggs but he is already better than DHB.  

I waa driving listening to the draft on the radio. I will never forget when I heard the selection I started punching the steering wheel I was so pissed. 

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The comparison of Ruggs to the likes of Tyreek Hill, Steve Smith, Wes Welker and DeSean Jackson intrigued me.   So I thought I'd look at their rookies seasons in comparison.   I was actually surprised by the results.

  • Wes Welker's rookie season was actually 2004 (age 23), but he failed to record a target or reception.  Used the 2nd year numbers for this comparison. 
  • Ruggs is the youngest of the group.
  • Ruggs missed the most games, and didn't have a preseason
  • Ruggs had the 2nd best completion %
  • Ruggs had the highest yards per reception
  • Ruggs had the 2nd most TDs (tied with D. Jackson - who had a great rookie season in terms of targets/yards.)

Lots of room for optimism with Ruggs, in my opinion.  

 

		Age	Year	G	TGT	Rec	Rec%	Yards	TD	Y/R	Long
T. Hill		22	2016	16	83	61	73%	593	6	9.7	49
S. Smith	22	2001	15	20	10	50%	154	0	15.4	33
W. Welker	24	2005	16	52	29	56%	434	0	15	47
D. Jackson	22	2008	16	120	62	52%	912	2	14.7	60
H. Ruggs	21	2020	13	43	26	60%	452	2	17.4	72

 

Edited by kaso
Tables suck.
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22 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Close but no cigar on DL. You sell Crosby short -- the guy is often double-teamed and he's been our only force up front despite teams knowing he's the guy to focus on. It's one thing for a small school, late-round prospect to turn out to be really good, but another to have him become a core focus of the offense. He's shown he can excel against the NFL's best. He is far from elite, and I'd hesitate to call him great, but he is by far our best defensive player, and has nothing to do with him looking good by comparison to his teammates -- it's in comparison to the talent across the line. The guy finished tied in sacks with Quinnen Williams, and was a 1/2 sack behind Chubb, Cameron Jordan, Joey Bosa, etc. -- guys considered elite talents. And he's done it consistently since coming into the league. 

  • Cle has some work before he can be considered at the same level but he's improving YoY. Both Cle and Crosby are far from bad. They can be better with better interior help. 
  • Same with Kwiatkowski. The rest of our LB corps were trash in comparison, sure -- but using that as a reason to call him awful is misguided at best. He absolutely lifted the D when he was on the field -- he is a solid defensive quarterback who can make plays in coverage against any skill position, and is good in clogging the middle. The guy is talented, smart, and has a great nose for the ball.
  • Trayveon Mullen has steadily improved and is one of our most dependable corners. He has indeed made some mistakes but he's by far our best. That's not saying much, so agree there is tons of room for improvement. I think with the right coaching and hopefully some solid FA veteran signings, both Arnette and Abram can improve -- both look to be capable but still really, really green. They need to be coached and get better in coverage, not just laying out wood -- for the good of the team and their careers. At 6 feet/205, Abram is about 25 pounds too light to be a LB, not sure I get the take about moving him. I think both will be fine and even have the ability to turn into one of the better CB/Safety Combos if they get the right coaching.

I didn't (mean to) say Kwiat was awful, that was about the position as a whole.  Just that he's overmatched as a mainstay LB but since he's all we got he looks better.  Yes, he lifted the D, but only because they were so low already.  He wouldn't have that impact on many other rosters.

Being in Ohio I don't get a lot of live Raider games and I didn't do a good job of finding them this year, but every time I did turn them on Mullen was grabbing someone.  As I said, I had high hopes for him when he was drafted and he is still young so can definitely turn it around.  Probably all of our D players would improve with different coaching.

I don't trust Abrahms and his immaturity.  On the first Hard Knocks when Gruden was telling him what he wanted and the guy basically disregarded it completely and just said "that's who I am coach" speaks volumes and I doubt his ability to get the right mindset.  Reminds me of the entitled superstar that's given everything and then when he needs to work for it he goes off the rails.  I'd solve that with coaching - just put him in a position where his intractableness is an asset rather than a liability.  The Rams played Mark Barron and Cardinals played Deone Buchanon at Big Nickel quite effectively.  If I'm wrong about him and he adapts I'll be thrilled.

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22 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 

  • Cle has some work before he can be considered at the same level but he's improving YoY. Both Cle and Crosby are far from bad. They can be better with better interior help.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Maxx and Clelin are better than given credit for (but I understand why they get pooped on being DE's and that position like no other is expected to generate sacks and as a team we struggle with that).

I didn't express my thoughts on Ferrell well.  I like him, think he's solid and improving and can still be a good asset, he just won't look like a sexy investment at 1.04 if he's not registering double-digit sacks.  We've seen way worse busts than him and that's kind of why I used the Gallery reference - he was "fine" for us as a player, just not as that early a pick impact guy.  You're looking for Bosa level returns there and I don't think that's who Ferrell is.

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7 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

DHB was a painful draft selection.   Everyone knew that was a wasted draft pick immediately. 

 

5 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

I waa driving listening to the draft on the radio. I will never forget when I heard the selection I started punching the steering wheel I was so pissed. 

That was a bad pick, and I remember being just as perplexed when we chose Mike Mitchell in the second. 

We did need a WR in that draft, and I wanted us to take Crabtree. Even Jeremey Maclin. 

But with Mitchell, I -- like I imagine many of you -- were saying, "Who?!?!"

If we wanted a safety there, we could have gone with William Moore, who at least was a Pro Bowler.

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4 hours ago, kaso said:

The comparison of Ruggs to the likes of Tyreek Hill, Steve Smith, Wes Welker and DeSean Jackson intrigued me.   So I thought I'd look at their rookies seasons in comparison.   I was actually surprised by the results.

  • Wes Welker's rookie season was actually 2004 (age 23), but he failed to record a target or reception.  Used the 2nd year numbers for this comparison. 
  • Ruggs is the youngest of the group.
  • Ruggs missed the most games, and didn't have a preseason
  • Ruggs had the 2nd best completion %
  • Ruggs had the highest yards per reception
  • Ruggs had the 2nd most TDs (tied with D. Jackson - who had a great rookie season in terms of targets/yards.)

Lots of room for optimism with Ruggs, in my opinion.  

 


		Age	Year	G	TGT	Rec	Rec%	Yards	TD	Y/R	Long
T. Hill		22	2016	16	83	61	73%	593	6	9.7	49
S. Smith	22	2001	15	20	10	50%	154	0	15.4	33
W. Welker	24	2005	16	52	29	56%	434	0	15	47
D. Jackson	22	2008	16	120	62	52%	912	2	14.7	60
H. Ruggs	21	2020	13	43	26	60%	452	2	17.4	72

 

With Ruggs, I think there is the "why didn't we pick _______" thing going on though the only two names should be Lamb and Juedy in that. NO ONE was saying anyone else. I do remember a few lone voices saying Ruggs but it was always Lamb and Jeudy as 1A and 1B with Ruggs a close 2. 

Then Jefferson, Higgins, and Claypool have very good seasons and somehow they are in the conversation. (And I was a HUGE Claypool fan before the draft begging us to get him... I was hoping in the 3rd but the Steelers snagged him in 2nd). 

He is a rookie. Some rookies don't explode. I detailed before the reasons why I thought some patience was in order for Ruggs and this post beautifully provides further reasoning to that argument. 

Let's not get all down on buying a brand new Ferrari and being all excited but then depressed because someone else's McLaren just posted a better track time. We got some tune ups needed to get this thing running at top speed.

Edited by Chadstroma
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Way too early to write off HR.

Tyreek comps were never fair. The Freak is built much lower to the ground and absorbs NFL hits much better. Just look at their necks and you'll see the huge difference between them. Steve Smiff comps are closer, but Ruggs would need to play much much tougher than I saw this year to come close to Smiff. That dude was an animal, the honey badger of WR. Welker was a prototype slot WR, like Edelman and Renfrow. Ruggs is an outside deep threat to me, potentially an elite one, like...

DJax - the best comp by far. Both are speed guys with subtle lateral moves, more strength than their body compositions imply and both track the ball well and catch soundly with their hands. Barring injury, I think Ruggs will develop into a DJax proxy, but I don't see much further upside from there. And I'm not sure that was worth passing on Lamb, who looks like a true alpha WR1, which is exactly what the Raiders now need opposite Ruggs. Bryan Edwards has that kind of skillset, but he seems made of glass. Claypool would've been amazing had he lasted to Edwards pick in Rd 3.

Edited by LawFitz
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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

I didn't (mean to) say Kwiat was awful, that was about the position as a whole.  Just that he's overmatched as a mainstay LB but since he's all we got he looks better.  Yes, he lifted the D, but only because they were so low already.  He wouldn't have that impact on many other rosters.

Being in Ohio I don't get a lot of live Raider games and I didn't do a good job of finding them this year, but every time I did turn them on Mullen was grabbing someone.  As I said, I had high hopes for him when he was drafted and he is still young so can definitely turn it around.  Probably all of our D players would improve with different coaching.

I don't trust Abrahms and his immaturity.  On the first Hard Knocks when Gruden was telling him what he wanted and the guy basically disregarded it completely and just said "that's who I am coach" speaks volumes and I doubt his ability to get the right mindset.  Reminds me of the entitled superstar that's given everything and then when he needs to work for it he goes off the rails.  I'd solve that with coaching - just put him in a position where his intractableness is an asset rather than a liability.  The Rams played Mark Barron and Cardinals played Deone Buchanon at Big Nickel quite effectively.  If I'm wrong about him and he adapts I'll be thrilled.

Totally disagree on the bolded. Kaptain K isn't LT, but he rarely looked overmatched and he absolutely had impact on another roster already -- he was a force with the Bears whenever they gave him opportunity, and he was ranked 15th among 89 LBs -- pretty good from a simple objective basis. @Chadstroma made a really good point -- the Bears did have a tough choice between Trevathan and Kwiatkowski, who the actually traded up to nab. Every piece I read at the time was glowing about what K brought to the table.

FWIW, I highly suggest you find ways to watch the Raiders -- I'm out in the PNW but have found ways to stream games and even shelled out for NFL.com so I could watch the games with my own eyes. I think watching each play brings a lot more perspective into what players like K bring to the table. We were fortunate this year with more nationally televised games than I remember, but find a way to watch, for sure.

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5 hours ago, kaso said:

The comparison of Ruggs to the likes of Tyreek Hill, Steve Smith, Wes Welker and DeSean Jackson intrigued me.   So I thought I'd look at their rookies seasons in comparison.   I was actually surprised by the results.

  • Wes Welker's rookie season was actually 2004 (age 23), but he failed to record a target or reception.  Used the 2nd year numbers for this comparison. 
  • Ruggs is the youngest of the group.
  • Ruggs missed the most games, and didn't have a preseason
  • Ruggs had the 2nd best completion %
  • Ruggs had the highest yards per reception
  • Ruggs had the 2nd most TDs (tied with D. Jackson - who had a great rookie season in terms of targets/yards.)

Lots of room for optimism with Ruggs, in my opinion.  

 


		Age	Year	G	TGT	Rec	Rec%	Yards	TD	Y/R	Long
T. Hill		22	2016	16	83	61	73%	593	6	9.7	49
S. Smith	22	2001	15	20	10	50%	154	0	15.4	33
W. Welker	24	2005	16	52	29	56%	434	0	15	47
D. Jackson	22	2008	16	120	62	52%	912	2	14.7	60
H. Ruggs	21	2020	13	43	26	60%	452	2	17.4	72

 

Yikes, I think it's optimism dashed. Not the first year comps unless you're trying to put lipstick on a pig of a year. I threw Welker out because they're not anything alike. I kept Hill because tho they aren't alike as LawFitz mentioned I think the Raiders had Hill in mind when they took the wrong receiver, er, I mean, when they took Ruggs. 😉 And Smith was much more like Hill and someone Ruggs will also never be like as far as build but I'm including him because, well, that will only leave Jackson if I don't. And I agree, Kaso, charts suck, so I'm not using one: 😉

Year 2

Smith 98 targets, 54 catches, 872 yards, 3 TDs, 16.1 y/r

Jackson 117 targets, 62 catches 1156 yards, 9 TDs, 18.6 y/r

Hill 105 targets, 75 catches, 1183 yards, 7 TDs, 15.8 y/r

So does anybody really think Ruggs can take the leap in year two and come anywhere close to those numbers? I guess he could come close to Smith but he needs to be better than all these at some point soon to justify where he was taken.

Here are two players Ruggs more closely resembles than any of Hill, Smith or Jackson:

Player A

Year 1: 78 targets, 33 catches, 771 yards, 3 TDs, 23.4 y/c

Year 2: 28 targets, 15 catches, 253 yards, 0 TDs, 16.9 y/c

Player B (targets not available)

Year 1: 32 catches, 665 yards 4 TDs, 20.8 y/c

Year 2: 23 catches, 632 yards, 6 TDS, 27.5

Player A is James Jett. Player B is Jessie Hester. I actually think Ruggs can put up Jett and Hester's year 2s COMBINED next year. That would only be 38 catches, 885 yards, 6 TDs. If he did that would be great progress but still not near what you expect from a player taken in the top half of the first round.

At this point, I'd be much more willing to believe Derek Carr will be more like Aaron Rodgers than Henry Ruggs will ever be like Hill, Smith or Jackson.

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38 minutes ago, Ed Wood said:

Yikes, I think it's optimism dashed. Not the first year comps unless you're trying to put lipstick on a pig of a year. I threw Welker out because they're not anything alike. I kept Hill because tho they aren't alike as LawFitz mentioned I think the Raiders had Hill in mind when they took the wrong receiver, er, I mean, when they took Ruggs. 😉 And Smith was much more like Hill and someone Ruggs will also never be like as far as build but I'm including him because, well, that will only leave Jackson if I don't. And I agree, Kaso, charts suck, so I'm not using one: 😉

Year 2

Smith 98 targets, 54 catches, 872 yards, 3 TDs, 16.1 y/r

Jackson 117 targets, 62 catches 1156 yards, 9 TDs, 18.6 y/r

Hill 105 targets, 75 catches, 1183 yards, 7 TDs, 15.8 y/r

So does anybody really think Ruggs can take the leap in year two and come anywhere close to those numbers? I guess he could come close to Smith but he needs to be better than all these at some point soon to justify where he was taken.

Here are two players Ruggs more closely resembles than any of Hill, Smith or Jackson:

Player A

Year 1: 78 targets, 33 catches, 771 yards, 3 TDs, 23.4 y/c

Year 2: 28 targets, 15 catches, 253 yards, 0 TDs, 16.9 y/c

Player B (targets not available)

Year 1: 32 catches, 665 yards 4 TDs, 20.8 y/c

Year 2: 23 catches, 632 yards, 6 TDS, 27.5

Player A is James Jett. Player B is Jessie Hester. I actually think Ruggs can put up Jett and Hester's year 2s COMBINED next year. That would only be 38 catches, 885 yards, 6 TDs. If he did that would be great progress but still not near what you expect from a player taken in the top half of the first round.

At this point, I'd be much more willing to believe Derek Carr will be more like Aaron Rodgers than Henry Ruggs will ever be like Hill, Smith or Jackson.

Most of us wanted Lamb when he fell into our laps.   Instead we have the guy that we are hoping can catch 3 balls a game and open up the field.    Gruden made a huge mistake with Ruggs and drafted poorly over and over.    Gruden set the team back at least a year or two by missing on those 4 first draft picks.   I’m sorry but we are in the same spot that we were in last year at this time.   No WR1 and lots of holes on D.   Gruden needs to quit reaching for his guys since his guys are not top NFL talent.  

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On 1/4/2021 at 2:55 PM, Chadstroma said:

With Lynn being fired Gus jumps up the probability rankings. It is reported we have shown interest in wanting to meet with him. 

Other names are Raheem Morris (not surprisingly) and Joe Barry (seems Rod has a lot of pull with Gruden). Also mentioned is Gregg Williams (I don't want him). 

As a Charger fan, I sincerely hope the Raiders sign Bradley to be their DC.

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35 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Most of us wanted Lamb when he fell into our laps.   Instead we have the guy that we are hoping can catch 3 balls a game and open up the field.    Gruden made a huge mistake with Ruggs and drafted poorly over and over.    Gruden set the team back at least a year or two by missing on those 4 first draft picks.   I’m sorry but we are in the same spot that we were in last year at this time.   No WR1 and lots of holes on D.   Gruden needs to quit reaching for his guys since his guys are not top NFL talent.  

The book still has to be written on Ruggs, but no question most of us wanted Lamb. When I watched what a guy like Jeudy did this year, though (and I watched a ton of Denver games as I was invested in Jeudy fantasy-wise), I don't see a huge separation in talent there between him and Ruggs, quite honestly.

I think the way to get Ruggs there is simply more work with Carr to get timing down -- one thing I constantly saw in the latter half of the season was Ruggs having to come back to balls, diving back towards the LOS to make catches. Ruggs had the ability to get open and stay open, but him and Carr needed better timing to be crisper. Once that's dialed in, I think Ruggs can be a big impact player for us.

As to the rest of this, I can't see past the Debbie Downer hyperbole. Way too early to say it's a huge mistake, and saying Gruden picking poorly absolutely ignores out and out studs like Jacobs and Crosby, and really promising players who contribute like Ferrell and Renfrow, hell, even guys like Mullen, Abram, Arnette, and Moreau. 

I'll take drafting like that over the drafts we had in 2017 (Conley and Melifonwu, Sharpe and Lee), 2016 (Jihad Ward and Calhoun), the ugly 2009 draft, and much more. I think we actually have a bead on guys who can produce. We just need to fill the right holes on D in the right way and we're a playoff team without question.

How you can look at a team that's improved their record three years straight and went from 4th to 3rd to 2nd in the AFC West, with an  think we're moving in the wrong direction is baffling. How you can look at a team that went from to 17th to 8th in yards and 23rd to 10th in points under Gruden and think we're trending down reads flat out wrong.

We absolutely gutted this team when Gruden came on board. We knew it would take a few seasons. I'm as impatient as everyone else given the many decades of sucktitude, but I think our offensive core is super solid -- we do need better defensive drafting, unquestionably. But Gruden did what he needed to do in the first few years to surround Carr with weapons. We now need to do the same on D.

I can't say this enough -- if you expect consistent pro bowlers for your first and second round picks, you fundamentally don't understand the actual hit rate of players who are drafted in the NFL. It simply doesn't work that way. If wishes were fishes....

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Cory Littleton says his first season with Raiders went “miserably”

Myles Simmons

4 hours ago

When the Raiders signed Cory Littleton to a three-year, $36 million deal back in March, they were hoping to get a dynamic centerpiece for a defensive unit that badly needed to improve.

Instead, Littleton had his worst season since becoming a full-time linebacker.

Littleton spent the first four seasons of his career with the Rams. He appeared primarily on special teams in 2016 and 2017 before starting all 16 games in 2018 and 2019, playing nearly every defensive snap.

Last year, Littleton had 134 total tackles, six tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks, nine passes defensed, two interceptions, two forced fumbles, and four fumble recoveries.

But the linebacker was far from that level of success in 2020. Missing two games due to COVID-19, Littleton finished with 82 tackles and four tackles for loss. He had no sacks, passes defensed, interceptions, or forced fumbles.

Littleton didn’t have the benefit of an in-person offseason program and was down to about half his usual workload in the three games after returning from the reserve/COVID-19 list. But he nevertheless candidly described his own disappointment with his first season in Las Vegas.

“It came out miserably,” Littleton said Monday, via Jerry McDonald of the Bay Area News Group. “I’ve always said that I wanted to keep myself and keep my play as a top-five linebacker. And the two previous seasons I had. I didn’t come nowhere close to it this year.”

Littleton noted his unfamiliarity with the scheme and his teammates may have hampered his play.

“I missed 10 times as many tackles as I did the previous year, which is uncharacteristic and something that can’t happen to a good linebacker,” Littleton said.

Littleton was far from Las Vegas’ only defensive problem, as the club fired coordinator Paul Guenther on Dec. 13. Head coach Jon Gruden said on Monday he plans to move quickly to hire a replacement, and Littleton’s former linebackers coach in Los Angeles, Joe Barry, is reportedly on the list of candidates for the job.

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2 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Totally disagree on the bolded. Kaptain K isn't LT, but he rarely looked overmatched and he absolutely had impact on another roster already -- he was a force with the Bears whenever they gave him opportunity, and he was ranked 15th among 89 LBs -- pretty good from a simple objective basis. @Chadstroma made a really good point -- the Bears did have a tough choice between Trevathan and Kwiatkowski, who the actually traded up to nab. Every piece I read at the time was glowing about what K brought to the table.

FWIW, I highly suggest you find ways to watch the Raiders -- I'm out in the PNW but have found ways to stream games and even shelled out for NFL.com so I could watch the games with my own eyes. I think watching each play brings a lot more perspective into what players like K bring to the table. We were fortunate this year with more nationally televised games than I remember, but find a way to watch, for sure.

And it wasn't just that they liked his potential, he produced when he had the opportunity. He really is a jack of a trades type ILB. He will do everything well but may not be the best in any one part of his game. With a new DC that can get eveyone on the same page, he is a good playcaller to have in the middle. The only defensive FA signing that so far has panned out in the last couple of years. 

And I watch the Raider games by going to NFLbite.com and get one of the streaming from there. Need to be careful though. 

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2 hours ago, Ed Wood said:

Yikes, I think it's optimism dashed. Not the first year comps unless you're trying to put lipstick on a pig of a year. I threw Welker out because they're not anything alike. I kept Hill because tho they aren't alike as LawFitz mentioned I think the Raiders had Hill in mind when they took the wrong receiver, er, I mean, when they took Ruggs. 😉 And Smith was much more like Hill and someone Ruggs will also never be like as far as build but I'm including him because, well, that will only leave Jackson if I don't. And I agree, Kaso, charts suck, so I'm not using one: 😉

Year 2

Smith 98 targets, 54 catches, 872 yards, 3 TDs, 16.1 y/r

Jackson 117 targets, 62 catches 1156 yards, 9 TDs, 18.6 y/r

Hill 105 targets, 75 catches, 1183 yards, 7 TDs, 15.8 y/r

So does anybody really think Ruggs can take the leap in year two and come anywhere close to those numbers? I guess he could come close to Smith but he needs to be better than all these at some point soon to justify where he was taken.

Here are two players Ruggs more closely resembles than any of Hill, Smith or Jackson:

Player A

Year 1: 78 targets, 33 catches, 771 yards, 3 TDs, 23.4 y/c

Year 2: 28 targets, 15 catches, 253 yards, 0 TDs, 16.9 y/c

Player B (targets not available)

Year 1: 32 catches, 665 yards 4 TDs, 20.8 y/c

Year 2: 23 catches, 632 yards, 6 TDS, 27.5

Player A is James Jett. Player B is Jessie Hester. I actually think Ruggs can put up Jett and Hester's year 2s COMBINED next year. That would only be 38 catches, 885 yards, 6 TDs. If he did that would be great progress but still not near what you expect from a player taken in the top half of the first round.

At this point, I'd be much more willing to believe Derek Carr will be more like Aaron Rodgers than Henry Ruggs will ever be like Hill, Smith or Jackson.

Ruggs will be better than Jett. No doubt. How much better is the only question. 

I loved Jett back in the day. I mean, how could you not? A speedster with the last name Jett?! But Jett wasn't much of a football player beyond his speed. Ruggs has a much fuller skill set than just his speed. 

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4 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

And it wasn't just that they liked his potential, he produced when he had the opportunity. He really is a jack of a trades type ILB. He will do everything well but may not be the best in any one part of his game. With a new DC that can get eveyone on the same page, he is a good playcaller to have in the middle. The only defensive FA signing that so far has panned out in the last couple of years. 

And I watch the Raider games by going to NFLbite.com and get one of the streaming from there. Need to be careful though. 

It is a little crazy that out of Heath, Littleton, Collins, and Nassib that no one else really hit this year. We struck out on Burfict, Joyner had been barely middling and nowhere near what he was, Mauro was a bust, Curtis Riley and Brandon Marshall flamed out, Mayowa wasn't great for us.

Rashad Melvin? Meh. Tahir Whitehead? Feh. Marcus Gilchrist? Ugh. 

It's actually kind of crazy that out of all of those signings, we really only truly hit with Kwitakowski.

A new DC may help with that. 

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1 minute ago, Chadstroma said:

Do all 4 of your fellow fans agree or is that just your view?

I don't think any of the 4 of us were big Bradley fans. But I don't want to speak for all of Charger nation here. If you enjoy your defense not being able to get off the field on 3rd and long because the DC thinks anything more than a 3 man rush is a bad idea, you'll love Gus Bradley. His aversion to aggression was a huge part of why the Chargers blew lots of big leads this year.

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HENDERSON, Nev. – The Las Vegas Raiders have signed the following 11 players to Reserve/Future contracts, the club announced Tuesday.

All 11 signees finished the season on the Raiders practice squad.

Table inside Article

PlayerPos.Ht.Wt.Exp.College

Bowers, Nick TE 6-4 260 R Penn State

Eberle, Dominik K 6-2 190 R Utah State

Gaulden, Rashaan DB 6-0 200 2 Tennessee

Green, Gerri DE 6-4 252 1 Mississippi State

Jones-Smith, Jaryd OL 6-7 345 1 Pittsburgh

Magnuson, Erik OL 6-6 300 3 Michigan

Onwualu, James LB 6-1 235 3 Notre Dame

Scott, Niles DT 6-3 320 2 Frostburg State

Seymour, Kamaal T 6-6 310 R Rutgers

Siverand, Kemah CB 6-0 205 R Oklahoma State

White, Javin LB 6-2 211 R UNLV

Bowers: Spent the season on the Raiders practice squad after originally signing as an undrafted free agent, May 5, 2020…Played four years at Penn State, playing in 26 games with two starts…Totaled 17 career catches for 279 yards and five TDs.

Eberle: Spent his rookie campaign on the Raiders practice squad after originally signing as an undrafted free agent, May 7, 2020…Played four years at Utah State, appearing in 43 career games and finishing as the most decorated kicker in program history…Set eight school records at Utah State, including points scored (359), points per game (8.34), field goals made (64), PATs (167), PAT attempts (167), PAT percentage (100 percent), consecutive PATs (167) and field goals from 50-plus yards (four).

Gaulden: Was signed to the team's practice squad on Nov. 9 and was activated two times, appearing in two contests…Spent time with the Carolina Panthers and New York Giants after originally being drafted by the Panthers in the third round (84th overall) of the 2018 NFL Draft…Career totals include 27 games played with 14 tackles (10 solo), one pass defensed and six special teams stops.

Green: Was signed to the team's practice squad on Nov. 3 after spending a portion of the 2020 season with the Indianapolis Colts…Originally selected in the sixth round (199th overall) of the 2019 NFL Draft by the Colts…Has not appeared in a game.

Jones-Smith: Appeared in his first three career contests with the Raiders in 2020, while spending the majority of the season on the team's practice squad…Originally signed by the Houston Texans as an undrafted free agent in 2018…In 2019, spent time with the San Antonio Commanders in the Alliance of American Football League and was signed to San Francisco 49ers practice squad on Oct. 1 where he spent the remainder of the season.

Magnuson: Spent the majority of the 2020 campaign on the Raiders practice squad after signing on Sept. 14…Originally signed by San Francisco 49ers as an undrafted free agent, May 4, 2017, where he spent his first two seasons, while also making a stint with the Buffalo Bills in 2019…Career totals include 10 games played with three starts.

Onwualu: Signed by the Raiders to the team's practice squad on Oct. 27 and was activated for the final two contests of the 2020 campaign…Has spent time with the Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, Jacksonville Jaguars and Carolina Panthers after originally signing with the Chargers as an undrafted free agent in 2017…Career totals include 17 games played with 10 special teams tackles and one forced fumble.

Scott: Signed by the Raiders to the team's practice squad on Dec. 14, where he spent the remainder of the season…Originally signed by the San Francisco 49ers as an undrafted free agent in 2018 and has also spent time with the Cincinnati Bengals and Buffalo Bills…Career totals include six games played with four tackles.

Seymour: Spent his rookie campaign with the team after signing as an undrafted free agent, May 6, 2020… Played four years at Rutgers, appearing in 46 career games with 41 starts…Made all of his collegiate starts at right tackle after moving to the offensive line as a redshirt freshman.

Siverand: Signed by the Raiders to the team's practice squad on Oct. 27 after originally being signed by the Seattle Seahawks as an undrafted free agent, May 4, 2020…Played in 41 career games with Oklahoma State (2018-19) and Texas A&M (2016-17).

White: Spent the majority of his rookie season on the Raiders practice squad, while also being activated for four contests and tallying two tackles on both defense and special teams…Originally signed as an undrafted free agent, May 5, 2020…Played four years at UNLV, appearing in 43 games with 29 starts…Totaled 201 tackles (124 solo), 18 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks, nine INTs, 15 passes defensed, seven forced fumbles and one fumble recovery…Named to the UNLV Football All-Decade Team at linebacker.

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2 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

I don't think any of the 4 of us were big Bradley fans. But I don't want to speak for all of Charger nation here. If you enjoy your defense not being able to get off the field on 3rd and long because the DC thinks anything more than a 3 man rush is a bad idea, you'll love Gus Bradley. His aversion to aggression was a huge part of why the Chargers blew lots of big leads this year.

I don't have an opinion of him either way. I felt bad for Lynn. Seems like a good dude. 

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3 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I don't have an opinion of him either way. I felt bad for Lynn. Seems like a good dude. 

He is a good dude, but HC is not the right role for him.

I just looked at where the Raider D ended the year, I guess Bradley would be an improvement. It just got real frustrating watching the defensive playcalls get predictably conservative when the Chargers got ahead, with the inevitable catch up by the opposing team making what should have been comfortable wins into nail biters or outright losses. I'll be happy to see him go - unless /until the Chargers get someone even worse.

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44 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 

As to the rest of this, I can't see past the Debbie Downer hyperbole. Way too early to say it's a huge mistake, and saying Gruden picking poorly absolutely ignores out and out studs like Jacobs and Crosby, and really promising players who contribute like Ferrell and Renfrow, hell, even guys like Mullen, Abram, Arnette, and Moreau. .

Jacobs and Crosby are good but are not studs.  I think you are exaggerating.   Mullen, Abram, and Arnette are not promising.   

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5 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

 

I didn't express my thoughts on Ferrell well.  I like him, think he's solid and improving and can still be a good asset, he just won't look like a sexy investment at 1.04 if he's not registering double-digit sacks.  We've seen way worse busts than him and that's kind of why I used the Gallery reference - he was "fine" for us as a player, just not as that early a pick impact guy.  You're looking for Bosa level returns there and I don't think that's who Ferrell is.

Speaking of Interior help, why isn't there any chatter regarding Leonard Williams? He's a DT with 11.5 sacks and 30 QB pressures this year. Would go a long way in helping out Cle and Maxx.

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  • Hankmoody changed the title to ☠ ☠ ☠ Official 2021 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☠ ☠ ☠ - only 3.5 more months of talking about draft reaches until real football arrives

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