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☠ ☠ ☠ Official 2021 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☠ ☠ ☠ - only 3.5 more months of talking about draft reaches until real football arrives


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Watch Gruden reference the smurfs now, of Miami dolphin fame.

gruden is trying really hard,  to emulate the chiefs.   IMHO, he should be trying to copy the saints. Carr is more brees than mahomes.  And ruggs/brown/Snead are no t hill. 

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:cry:

Last year,  brown, ruggs, Snead, Edwards  103 catches 1400 or so yards. 9 tds.

brown, ruggs and Snead are the same player.  I’m so confused. 

ETA:  Forgot renfrow.  56/656/2. Does he back up Snead, in the slot now?  Still confused. 

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Just now, ICON211 said:

The Snead signing does not mean a whole lot IMO.  Depth piece.

It’s one less roster spot and money not spent on the D.   While it makes sense as a vet/depth piece. It doesn’t address the most glaring need on the team.  The defense. 

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57 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

It’s one less roster spot and money not spent on the D.   While it makes sense as a vet/depth piece. It doesn’t address the most glaring need on the team.  The defense. 

Snead shows how little faith the Raiders have in Ruggs and Edwards.  The Raiders still need the big WR that can move the chains.  

What a terrible offseason.  There have been some really bad moves.    I get trying to spend less money on the O line but the saved money was spent on overpaying a RB and adding average WRs.  Where is the FS, DT, and CB?!   

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2 hours ago, kaso said:

The Raiders have signed Willie Snead to a 1 year deal.  No details on compensation yet. 

That snuck into the news wire while the Dolphins were moving up and down the draft board... Not sure I understand the signing to be honest. 

If it is bargain basement then I am ok with it. If we spent any amount of real money on him, I will be pissed.

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5 hours ago, joey said:

And so completes the assembly of our Meh WR corps. 

Guessing Snead's deal contains zero guaranteed money like Riddick's. That means neither guy is locked into a roster spot and could be beat out by a rookie or another signing.

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3 hours ago, LawFitz said:

Guessing Snead's deal contains zero guaranteed money like Riddick's. That means neither guy is locked into a roster spot and could be beat out by a rookie or another signing.

🤞

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20 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

I like all the draft talk about QBs flying off the board early and often.  Drafts rarely go as predicted but hopefully, a starter for the O line or D line falls into Grudens lap.   

It is a virtual lock that five QBs will be taken before we pick at 17, most likely in the top 10.  I've seen some people say Devonta Smith will make it to 17, but I can't see that at all and Smith, Chase and Pitts will all go before 17 also.  Sewell will be a top 10 pick.  

I really like Barmore at DT, but I'm not in love with the edge rushers.  I could definitely see the Raiders taking O line.   

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19 hours ago, ICON211 said:

The Snead signing does not mean a whole lot IMO.  Depth piece.

I agree, but he’s also not as bad as his stats look in Baltimore. That team just doesn’t throw much & it’s not like LJax makes 3-4 reads. He makes 1, maybe 2 then takes off running. Not knocking the dude, just sayin it’s hard for a WR to pad their stats in Baltimore.

Snead runs crisp routes and has good hands. He’s not a burner but he can be useful. 

He’s likely a depth pick, but a 50/600/3 season wouldn’t shock me. And if Renfroe or Ruggs miss any time he can fill in capably. 

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40 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

It is a virtual lock that five QBs will be taken before we pick at 17, most likely in the top 10.  I've seen some people say Devonta Smith will make it to 17, but I can't see that at all and Smith, Chase and Pitts will all go before 17 also.  Sewell will be a top 10 pick.  

I really like Barmore at DT, but I'm not in love with the edge rushers.  I could definitely see the Raiders taking O line.   

Agree with your thinking.  I don’t see any standout edge rushers.   One will probably emerge eventually but there is no need to reach to find that guy.   DT or O line should be the easy pick.  Barmore could be the pick and I wouldn’t complain.  Chad may go into shock.   

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19 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

Agree with your thinking.  I don’t see any standout edge rushers.   One will probably emerge eventually but there is no need to reach to find that guy.   DT or O line should be the easy pick.  Barmore could be the pick and I wouldn’t complain.  Chad may go into shock.   

Yeah, there are no Chase Young or Kahlil Mack types in this year's draft. If there were, they'd be gone by #17 anyway. But the good news is the edge class seems to be pretty deep. The players being projected to go in the first round have a lot of questions and I'd hope the Raiders wait until later in the draft to address that need.

What's got me worried is they haven't addressed the safety position in free agency. I was (am still) hoping they would bring in a veteran with upside  to bring some experience and leadership to a very inexperienced and shaky group. Drafting another safety in the 1st round doesn't make sense to me at all. Been seeing Trevon Moehrig mocked to the Raiders, which I hope doesn't happen. Not that I don't like the player, I just don't like the investment into the position at this time.

I hope HOPE! Micah Parsons will fall. If not, there still are a couple athletic LBs that might be around at #17. Zaven Collins, JOK, Nick Bolton, all having different skill sets.

I'd be ok with Barmore as well, but I just don't think Gruden values the position enough to draft a DT in the 1st round. Plus I believe DT is the perfect position to target in the 2nd round. Looking at guys like Alim McNeill, Osa Odighizuwa, Daviyon Nixon and Levi Onwuzurike, they have the ability to be day one starters with the right coaching. 

Gruden likes OTs though. Look for a RT, Teven Jenkins or Jalen Mayfield. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Bruno2 said:

What's got me worried is they haven't addressed the safety position in free agency. I was (am still) hoping they would bring in a veteran with upside  to bring some experience and leadership to a very inexperienced and shaky group. Drafting another safety in the 1st round doesn't make sense to me at all. Been seeing Trevon Moehrig mocked to the Raiders, which I hope doesn't happen. Not that I don't like the player, I just don't like the investment into the position at this time.

Jevon Holland could be a name to watch for a second round safety.

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31 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

Jevon Holland could be a name to watch for a second round safety.

Holland would be a great pick if he lasts that long. Theres been some chatter about him going late 1st round.

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There are always vet safeties kicking around, teams just need to choose the right one.  Whether or not this team chooses correctly remains to be seen, but I have little doubt that we will be okaaay at worst with whichever name we have all heard of that they bring in to start next to Captain Concussion for the first two quarters of Game 1, before we turn to our backup strong safety  (box safety in 1st round, what a joke). 

We also don't need a Pro Bowl FS, because the team can expect to run a lot more zone this year.  I mean, name any Chargers FS the last decade.  They've had fine defenses with workman-like guys back there.  But we are Raiders fans, we all grew up with fun safeties to root for, so we like to wring our hands about this.  Fact is, safety (FS or SS) is probably the easiest position to pull in a guy off the street, behind RB probably.  

Right tackle, on the other hand, they are not waiting by the phone, not ones that can handle the edge guys in our division.  If we don't get a guy in FA, the team may be forced to take one in round 1.

I have no problem with that, first round OT have better track records than most, and it'll maybe keep the team from taking a safety or a guard, or a DE that can't pass rush in the first round.  The ONLY issue I have is that I have read the OT class goes deep, and maybe the best draft result is the team goes BPA in the 1st, and best OT in the 2nd.  But if you NEED the rookie to start, maybe you don't risk waiting till the 2nd round.  

If the team was to trade down in the first, and take an OT, I would approve of that move for sure.  

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4 hours ago, Bruno2 said:

Yeah, there are no Chase Young or Kahlil Mack types in this year's draft. If there were, they'd be gone by #17 anyway. But the good news is the edge class seems to be pretty deep. The players being projected to go in the first round have a lot of questions and I'd hope the Raiders wait until later in the draft to address that need.

What's got me worried is they haven't addressed the safety position in free agency. I was (am still) hoping they would bring in a veteran with upside  to bring some experience and leadership to a very inexperienced and shaky group. Drafting another safety in the 1st round doesn't make sense to me at all. Been seeing Trevon Moehrig mocked to the Raiders, which I hope doesn't happen. Not that I don't like the player, I just don't like the investment into the position at this time.

I hope HOPE! Micah Parsons will fall. If not, there still are a couple athletic LBs that might be around at #17. Zaven Collins, JOK, Nick Bolton, all having different skill sets.

I'd be ok with Barmore as well, but I just don't think Gruden values the position enough to draft a DT in the 1st round. Plus I believe DT is the perfect position to target in the 2nd round. Looking at guys like Alim McNeill, Osa Odighizuwa, Daviyon Nixon and Levi Onwuzurike, they have the ability to be day one starters with the right coaching. 

Gruden likes OTs though. Look for a RT, Teven Jenkins or Jalen Mayfield. 

 

As long as Gruden doesn’t go WR in the first.    The Raiders had their chance at the WR 1 last season and still need one but the o line and d lines must be addressed.   I like your thinking about going DT in the second round too.   

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1. QUARTERBACK

If you’ve been following PFF’s coverage of the draft, you shouldn’t be surprised that the new hot rumor is that quarterbacks will go 1-2-3-4 in the draft for the first time ever. We’ve been beating the drum for just how special this class is for some time. You don’t find quarterbacks as talented as North Dakota State’s Trey Lance every year, and he’s only QB4 on the PFF 2021 NFL Draft Big Board.

2. OFFENSIVE TACKLE

As things stand, PFF has a first-round grade on seven offensive tackles and Day 2 grades on six more. That’s a LOADED class. While last year’s group was top-heavy, this year’s has serious depth. There’s a chance you’ll be able to find immediate starters leaking into the second round, which is something that rarely happens at the position.

3. WIDE RECEIVER

Before you say, “you say it’s a great receiver class every year,” just know that this likely won't be the case in 2022. If you want that game-changing wide receiver, this is the year to do it. Ja’Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle and DeVonta Smith all rank inside PFF’s top 10 players. There are three more receivers in the top 32 and five more in the top 100. The class has got a little bit of everything, too, with several different body types represented.

4. INTERIOR OFFENSIVE LINE

This might be cheating to a degree because it includes a number of guys who played tackle last year yet profile well to the interior in the NFL, players such as USC’s Alijah Vera-Tucker and Michigan’s Jaylen Mayfield. At least three guys in this class would have been the top-ranked iOL on PFF’s board in 2020 had they declared: Vera-Tucker, Ohio State’s Wyatt Davis and Alabama’s Landon Dickerson. While there are some injury concerns with many players, it’s still a deep class.

5. CORNERBACK

The fifth overall ranking here doesn’t quite do the cornerback class justice. That’s how good the classes listed from No. 1 to No. 4 are. The cornerback group features 16 guys in PFF’s top 100, although there are not too many true blue-chippers at the position in the class. The strength is quite clearly throughout Day 2, where there are a ton of intriguing skill sets.

PFF's Big Board for the 2021 NFL Draft offers three-year player grades, combine measurables, position rankings, and in-depth player analysis for all of the top draft prospects. Click here to view the best draft prospects in the class! 

6. LINEBACKER

What’s unique about this year’s linebacker class is the number of different body types represented toward the top. You have a do-it-all 245-pounder in Micah Parsons from Penn State, a hybrid 215-pounder in Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah from Notre Dame, a modern-sized middle linebacker in 230-pound Nick Bolton from Missouri and a throwback strongside linebacker in the 260-pound Zaven Collins from Tulsa. All have first-round grades, but all will play vastly different roles in your defense. After that, there are four more top-100 players at the position.

7. TIGHT END

The tight end class was the most difficult one to slot into this list. The position's saving grace is the existence of Florida's Kyle Pitts. Pitts is a top-10 player on PFF’s draft board, even though PFF is notoriously low on the position from a draft-value perspective. The vast majority of tight ends simply don’t move the needle in the NFL, but Pitts is different, and those guys don’t come around every year. After him, however, only Penn State’s Pat Freiermuth and Miami’s Brevin Jordan crack the top 100 on the draft board. The crazy thing is that even though it is a middling class, it’s still lightyears better than the all-time bad class we saw a year ago.

8. EDGE DEFENDER

The edge class is one of the scariest position groups in this draft, as it has far more boom-or-bust players per capita than any other position in 2021. That’s because so few guys from it produced at a high level on college football fields. Oklahoma’s Ronnie Perkins was the only guy in PFF’s top 150 at the position who earned over a 90.0 overall grade last season — and he only played six games! There’s physical talent to be had, but every single guy needs significant development.

9. RUNNING BACK

This has nothing to do with our valuation of the running back position and everything to do with the depth of talent. Last year, we saw a group of five or six at the top who could be do-it-all starters. This year, that number is three, with Clemson’s Travis Etienne, North Carolina’s Javonte Williams and Alabama’s Najee Harris. After that, there’s a number of intriguing undersized and scat backs but not a lot of guys you can plug and play from Day 1.

10. SAFETY

There are far more question marks than answers in this safety class. Outside of TCU’s Trevon Moehrig and UCF’s Richie Grant, very few guys offer a versatile skill set without some serious concerns. We like TCU’s Ar’Darius Washington, but he only weighs 178 pounds. We like Washington’s Elijah Molden, too, but he only ever played in the slot during his career. We also like Syracuse’s Andre Cisco, but he is a roller coaster on tape and tore his ACL. There are roles a lot of these guys can be successful in, but teams really covet the do-it-all safeties nowadays.

11. INTERIOR DEFENSIVE LINE

There is one first-round grade (Christian Barmore, Alabama) and one second-round grade (Alim McNeil, N.C. State). That’s your 2021 defensive tackle class. That’s not saying there isn’t talent to be found, but at this point, it is the weakest DI group we’ve seen in our seven years of doing this.

PFF ranking of the positions overall.  Loads of OT for us.  

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On 3/26/2021 at 2:42 PM, DocHolliday said:

Snead shows how little faith the Raiders have in Ruggs and Edwards.  The Raiders still need the big WR that can move the chains.   

I'm definitely looking at this situation with rose-colored dynasty glasses, but it actually seems like these moves are showing a great deal of confidence in Edwards to be that guy (probably too much).  If they make a big trade or go back to the draft early for a big possession WR, then I completely agree, time for me to cut bait.  Otherwise, it has me thinking that maybe there was something to the training camp hype and maybe he was hobbled for most of the regular season.  

 Snead and Brown seems like an indictment on Ruggs.  However, Ruggs should be expected to eventually beat out veterans of this caliber.  Shame on him if he can't.  Seems like the Raiders are protecting themselves and raising a the bar pretty high for Ruggs to take a leap, while also not fully blocking his path to do so..      

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3 hours ago, sushinsky4tsar said:

I'm definitely looking at this situation with rose-colored dynasty glasses, but it actually seems like these moves are showing a great deal of confidence in Edwards to be that guy (probably too much).  If they make a big trade or go back to the draft early for a big possession WR, then I completely agree, time for me to cut bait.  Otherwise, it has me thinking that maybe there was something to the training camp hype and maybe he was hobbled for most of the regular season.  

 Snead and Brown seems like an indictment on Ruggs.  However, Ruggs should be expected to eventually beat out veterans of this caliber.  Shame on him if he can't.  Seems like the Raiders are protecting themselves and raising a the bar pretty high for Ruggs to take a leap, while also not fully blocking his path to do so..      

I mostly agree with this.  Whether it's faith or just hope, not going hard for Golladay or JuJu or any of the other top FA WRs tells me they are looking for a big leap from Ruggs and Edwards.  John Brown and Snead are hedges and they had to sign a couple guys to fill out the WR room.

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56 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

I mostly agree with this.  Whether it's faith or just hope, not going hard for Golladay or JuJu or any of the other top FA WRs tells me they are looking for a big leap from Ruggs and Edwards.  John Brown and Snead are hedges and they had to sign a couple guys to fill out the WR room.

Golladay and JuJu are far from true WR 1 WRs.   Golladay has health concerns.  JuJu is good but not great and may be more about him than the team.   I’m glad LV passed on both.  

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5 hours ago, sushinsky4tsar said:

I'm definitely looking at this situation with rose-colored dynasty glasses, but it actually seems like these moves are showing a great deal of confidence in Edwards to be that guy (probably too much).  If they make a big trade or go back to the draft early for a big possession WR, then I completely agree, time for me to cut bait.  Otherwise, it has me thinking that maybe there was something to the training camp hype and maybe he was hobbled for most of the regular season.  

 Snead and Brown seems like an indictment on Ruggs.  However, Ruggs should be expected to eventually beat out veterans of this caliber.  Shame on him if he can't.  Seems like the Raiders are protecting themselves and raising a the bar pretty high for Ruggs to take a leap, while also not fully blocking his path to do so..      

Well thought out post and I agree, you're putting too much confidence in Edwards. 😉 He didn't show much at all last year. At least not what I'd expect for a third rounder with all that hype. Maybe the game slows down for him this year. Maybe a full-round of OTAs and a full training camp will help things click for him (and Ruggs) this year. But he looked pretty lost out there last year to the tune of 11-200-1. If he tripled those numbers those numbers this year, I'd be very surprised. I think he can come somewhere between double and tripling. 25-400-3?

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

Golladay and JuJu are far from true WR 1 WRs.   Golladay has health concerns.  JuJu is good but not great and may be more about him than the team.   I’m glad LV passed on both.  

If you think Golladay is far from a #1 WR you have very high standards and must only view a handful of guys as true #1 WRs.

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11 minutes ago, Ed Wood said:

Well thought out post and I agree, you're putting too much confidence in Edwards. 😉 He didn't show much at all last year. At least not what I'd expect for a third rounder with all that hype. Maybe the game slows down for him this year. Maybe a full-round of OTAs and a full training camp will help things click for him (and Ruggs) this year. But he looked pretty lost out there last year to the tune of 11-200-1. If he tripled those numbers those numbers this year, I'd be very surprised. I think he can come somewhere between double and tripling. 25-400-3?

Yes, Edwards did not show much, but I wouldn't expect much from a third round rookie WR with last year's offseason issues and who was hurt a good portion of the season.

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After the Fins-9ers deal, some blogger made a comparison of that deal to the 2013 Raiders-Fins deal.

In this most recent deal the Fins went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 3 and 2 1s.

In 2013, the Raiders went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 2. 😶

The blogger pointed out there's a quarterback involved in this recent deal which increased the Fins haul but it's obvious Reggie go hosed.

So, if you had to pick one or the other to make your draft picks, would you choose Reggie or Gruden? The answer obviously is neither. Gruden, I guess, has been better than Reggie during his their respective time with the Raiders. But his overall track record is dreck.

Reggie got em Carr, Mack and Cooper in five years. Granted, the last two fell into his lap, Mack especially, but he still got em.

Gruden has got em Miller and Jacobs in the draft and Waller in free agency in three years. And an argument could be made he wouldn't have gotten Jacobs if not for Reggie getting Mack.

Hopefully with 8 more picks this year, Gruden will come up with a version closer to the 2019 haul than 2020.

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9 minutes ago, Ed Wood said:

After the Fins-9ers deal, some blogger made a comparison of that deal to the 2013 Raiders-Fins deal.

In this most recent deal the Fins went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 3 and 2 1s.

In 2013, the Raiders went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 2. 😶

The blogger pointed out there's a quarterback involved in this recent deal which increased the Fins haul but it's obvious Reggie go hosed.

 

Good point.  I remember thinking at the time "wait a minute, that's all we got?"

QB or no QB, moving from 12 to 3 has to net more than an additional second round pick. 

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1 hour ago, Ed Wood said:

After the Fins-9ers deal, some blogger made a comparison of that deal to the 2013 Raiders-Fins deal.

In this most recent deal the Fins went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 3 and 2 1s.

In 2013, the Raiders went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 2. 😶

The blogger pointed out there's a quarterback involved in this recent deal which increased the Fins haul but it's obvious Reggie go hosed.

So, if you had to pick one or the other to make your draft picks, would you choose Reggie or Gruden? The answer obviously is neither. Gruden, I guess, has been better than Reggie during his their respective time with the Raiders. But his overall track record is dreck.

Reggie got em Carr, Mack and Cooper in five years. Granted, the last two fell into his lap, Mack especially, but he still got em.

Gruden has got em Miller and Jacobs in the draft and Waller in free agency in three years. And an argument could be made he wouldn't have gotten Jacobs if not for Reggie getting Mack.

Hopefully with 8 more picks this year, Gruden will come up with a version closer to the 2019 haul than 2020.

Do yourself a favor and don't do what I just did. In the past 25 years 2014 was probably the best draft class they've had. And Charles Woodson is definitely their best 1st round pick in that time frame all the way back in 1998. So if we really want to understand how the Raiders got where they are today. The Davis's, Reggie and Gruden should all share blame for this run of horrible drafts and ineptitude for so many years.

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8 hours ago, sushinsky4tsar said:

I'm definitely looking at this situation with rose-colored dynasty glasses, but it actually seems like these moves are showing a great deal of confidence in Edwards to be that guy (probably too much).  If they make a big trade or go back to the draft early for a big possession WR, then I completely agree, time for me to cut bait.  Otherwise, it has me thinking that maybe there was something to the training camp hype and maybe he was hobbled for most of the regular season.  

 Snead and Brown seems like an indictment on Ruggs.  However, Ruggs should be expected to eventually beat out veterans of this caliber.  Shame on him if he can't.  Seems like the Raiders are protecting themselves and raising a the bar pretty high for Ruggs to take a leap, while also not fully blocking his path to do so..      

Snead isn't a burner. He is a 4.5 guy. 

Brown is, down into the 4.3 (Agholar is a 4.4 guy for reference and Ruggs 4.2). Brown isn't an indictment in my view at all. Just as the Chefs drafting Hardman wasn't an indictment on Hill. It's simply adding more speed to the offense. 

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3 hours ago, Ed Wood said:

After the Fins-9ers deal, some blogger made a comparison of that deal to the 2013 Raiders-Fins deal.

In this most recent deal the Fins went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 3 and 2 1s.

In 2013, the Raiders went from 3 to 12 and got an additional 2. 😶

The blogger pointed out there's a quarterback involved in this recent deal which increased the Fins haul but it's obvious Reggie go hosed.

That blogger has about as bad a take as you can find.  

2013 draft was as bad a draft as there has been in recent memory. No one wanted a top pick.  Did Eric Fisher go #1 overall in that draft?  What's that tell you....

Reggie made it clear, they were shopping the pick, and it was a buyer's market.  They  knew whats-his-name was their guy, the CB who almost died on the field.  No one wanted to move up. Reggie, took the best he could get, he wanted more picks, everyone knew he wanted to move down, and no one wanted to move up, which as far as I recall, no one else did.  

To compare that to a year when QBs might go 1-4 is insulting.  The 49ers aren't trading for the #3 pick from #12, they are trading for TREY LANCE.  They're getting a franchise QB, they think.  Raiders had nothing like that available when they were at #3 in 2013.  

 

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19 minutes ago, massraider said:

That blogger has about as bad a take as you can find.  

2013 draft was as bad a draft as there has been in recent memory. No one wanted a top pick.  Did Eric Fisher go #1 overall in that draft?  What's that tell you....

Reggie made it clear, they were shopping the pick, and it was a buyer's market.  They  knew whats-his-name was their guy, the CB who almost died on the field.  No one wanted to move up. Reggie, took the best he could get, he wanted more picks, everyone knew he wanted to move down, and no one wanted to move up, which as far as I recall, no one else did.  

To compare that to a year when QBs might go 1-4 is insulting.  The 49ers aren't trading for the #3 pick from #12, they are trading for TREY LANCE.  They're getting a franchise QB, they think.  Raiders had nothing like that available when they were at #3 in 2013.  

 

Context is important and it does make a difference that the Dolphins were not trading up for a QB in 2013, but only getting a second round pick to move from 3 to 12 is bad.  I doubt you will be able to find another trade of a team moving from outside the top 10 to inside the top 5 for so little.

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28 minutes ago, ICON211 said:

Context is important and it does make a difference that the Dolphins were not trading up for a QB in 2013, but only getting a second round pick to move from 3 to 12 is bad.  I doubt you will be able to find another trade of a team moving from outside the top 10 to inside the top 5 for so little.

It was a bad deal, but it's bad enough on it's own, one doesn't need to make an unfair comparison in order to make the point.  To me, the thought is, "Crap year to be trying to trade down, but shoulda got more than that...." 

If you are simply pretending that every 3-12 move is completely the same, then the 49ers trade makes it look like Reggie should have been dragged out that day for incompetence.  Put all the trade ups for QBs side by side, and it's a fair comparison.  

I'm not really sure what Mayock/Gruden is hanging their hat on right now.  Jacobs?  Umm, well, OK.  The player to take there was Montez Sweat, but they couldn't make that move because they already reached for Ferrell.  

Gruyock could have followed anyone else's board, and they have had Devin White/Sweat/Jacobs or Abram.  Instead, they went off the board for Ferrell, and then drafted a 1st round RB, never a move that will really make a big difference.  

 

It is worth noting that every single player between Abram and Mullen is no one of notice, Abram may still make that pick worth it.  

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

That blogger has about as bad a take as you can find.  

2013 draft was as bad a draft as there has been in recent memory. No one wanted a top pick.  Did Eric Fisher go #1 overall in that draft?  What's that tell you....

Reggie made it clear, they were shopping the pick, and it was a buyer's market.  They  knew whats-his-name was their guy, the CB who almost died on the field.  No one wanted to move up. Reggie, took the best he could get, he wanted more picks, everyone knew he wanted to move down, and no one wanted to move up, which as far as I recall, no one else did.  

To compare that to a year when QBs might go 1-4 is insulting.  The 49ers aren't trading for the #3 pick from #12, they are trading for TREY LANCE.  They're getting a franchise QB, they think.  Raiders had nothing like that available when they were at #3 in 2013.  

 

And that these 4 QB's seem to be rated qbove many years top QB. You can only sell what someone wants to buy. 

It is basically the Madden complex that these arm chair GM's think you can just plug in your trade offer and as long as the computer deems it fair, it will go through. 🤣🤣🤣

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3 hours ago, Chadstroma said:

Snead isn't a burner. He is a 4.5 guy. 

Brown is, down into the 4.3 (Agholar is a 4.4 guy for reference and Ruggs 4.2). Brown isn't an indictment in my view at all. Just as the Chefs drafting Hardman wasn't an indictment on Hill. It's simply adding more speed to the offense. 

Good take. 

So Brown is veteran Ruggs insurance and Snead is veteran Edwards insurance. 

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1 hour ago, joey said:

Good take. 

So Brown is veteran Ruggs insurance and Snead is veteran Edwards insurance. 

I think Brown is more than insurance for Ruggs but yea, he can fill the role Agholar did if Ruggs isn't playing at the level he needs or injured. Even if Ruggs is playing like we want, Brown will see the field a good amount. They want that speed on the field. 

Snead could be insurance for Edwards but Edwards has 4 inches on him and about the same speed if not slightly faster. I see it more as competition for Zay and/or vet depth. 

Snead has great hands and good route running but being short and slow (for a WR) is not a great combo for the NFL. 

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9 hours ago, ICON211 said:

If you think Golladay is far from a #1 WR you have very high standards and must only view a handful of guys as true #1 WRs.

I wasn’t very clear.   Golladay has a ton of talent but last years injury is concerning.  He was hurt going into the season and never healed through the season.  Not worth the risk to me.   

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4 hours ago, massraider said:

It was a bad deal, but it's bad enough on it's own, one doesn't need to make an unfair comparison in order to make the point.  To me, the thought is, "Crap year to be trying to trade down, but shoulda got more than that...." 

If you are simply pretending that every 3-12 move is completely the same, then the 49ers trade makes it look like Reggie should have been dragged out that day for incompetence.  Put all the trade ups for QBs side by side, and it's a fair comparison.  

I'm not really sure what Mayock/Gruden is hanging their hat on right now.  Jacobs?  Umm, well, OK.  The player to take there was Montez Sweat, but they couldn't make that move because they already reached for Ferrell.  

Gruyock could have followed anyone else's board, and they have had Devin White/Sweat/Jacobs or Abram.  Instead, they went off the board for Ferrell, and then drafted a 1st round RB, never a move that will really make a big difference.  

 

It is worth noting that every single player between Abram and Mullen is no one of notice, Abram may still make that pick worth it.  

The 2019 draft was bad but it looks good compared to last years.  

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14 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

I wasn’t very clear.   Golladay has a ton of talent but last years injury is concerning.  He was hurt going into the season and never healed through the season.  Not worth the risk to me.   

I hear ya.  I think just as concerning with him was the mystery surrounding the injury and that he was never placed on IR.  Have to wonder if he could have played, but chose not to with his free agency on the horizon.

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1 hour ago, ICON211 said:

I hear ya.  I think just as concerning with him was the mystery surrounding the injury and that he was never placed on IR.  Have to wonder if he could have played, but chose not to with his free agency on the horizon.

Yep.  I may be extra jaded since I drafted him last season but the situation made me hope Gruden stayed away.  Lingering injury for the duration of the season is one thing.  Choosing not to play while getting paid knowing he is going to hit FA is even worse.  The Raiders are not a good team that can overcome those types of players.  

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

Fantasy question for Raider fans...do you think Refrow can take his stats to another level (yes, I am being a little vague) or will he remain in the ballpark of these last two years?

I expect a slight increase. In the neighborhood of 60-70 receptions for 700 and 5-6 TD's assuming a full healthy year. 

I think the development of the outside from Ruggs and Edwards will loosen things up for him but he is always going to be a piece guy and not the the focus.  

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Man, if you think that 5 QBs are going to go before us, and that Chase and Pitts are in a very small bin by themselves, the difference in talent at #17 won't be very different than say, #9.  

Sewell, Pitts Chase will be gone early, then, who we really missing out on?  There's a reason why we aren't relentlessly wondering if Player X or Player Y might fall.  Because there's a group there, but we aren't hearing about 3 or 4 guys that are the best one left.  There's a like a group of 10-15 that have about the same buzz right now.   

If we were at 10, we'd be talking about Pitts a ton.  because maaaybe this guy will fall a spot or two.  

But no one in here is praying that Kwity Paye slips to us.  :lol:

Just an observation really.  This thread is probably the most laid back this year about who we may take.  

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18 minutes ago, massraider said:

Man, if you think that 5 QBs are going to go before us, and that Chase and Pitts are in a very small bin by themselves, the difference in talent at #17 won't be very different than say, #9.  

Sewell, Pitts Chase will be gone early, then, who we really missing out on?  There's a reason why we aren't relentlessly wondering if Player X or Player Y might fall.  Because there's a group there, but we aren't hearing about 3 or 4 guys that are the best one left.  There's a like a group of 10-15 that have about the same buzz right now.   

If we were at 10, we'd be talking about Pitts a ton.  because maaaybe this guy will fall a spot or two.  

But no one in here is praying that Kwity Paye slips to us.  :lol:

Just an observation really.  This thread is probably the most laid back this year about who we may take.  

I'm really hoping the situation you described plus some minor character concerns causes Micah Parsons to fall. The defense needs a playmaker at LB who can cover and  also pass rush when needed. I'd also be ok with Zaven Collins, JOK and Nick Bolton. Throw in DT Christian Barmore as well.

Gruden will probably be targeting OT though. It's tough to get excited about the draft when you don't what the heck the Raiders will do. It can be anyone from WR Kadarius Toney to Safety Trevon Moehrig. Or someone completely off everyone's radar like Arnette was last year. That's why I'll throw the name Jamin Davis out there too. Typical reach pick that isn't out of the realm of possibility. 

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4 hours ago, Boston said:

Fantasy question for Raider fans...do you think Refrow can take his stats to another level (yes, I am being a little vague) or will he remain in the ballpark of these last two years?

I see him staying around the same. Snead will play in the slot too, taking some of his opportunities. 

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5 hours ago, massraider said:

Man, if you think that 5 QBs are going to go before us, and that Chase and Pitts are in a very small bin by themselves, the difference in talent at #17 won't be very different than say, #9.  

Sewell, Pitts Chase will be gone early, then, who we really missing out on?  There's a reason why we aren't relentlessly wondering if Player X or Player Y might fall.  Because there's a group there, but we aren't hearing about 3 or 4 guys that are the best one left.  There's a like a group of 10-15 that have about the same buzz right now.   

If we were at 10, we'd be talking about Pitts a ton.  because maaaybe this guy will fall a spot or two.  

But no one in here is praying that Kwity Paye slips to us.  :lol:

Just an observation really.  This thread is probably the most laid back this year about who we may take.  

I really need to get on the ball with my draft prep.... this was like trying to read Chinese to me. 

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4 hours ago, Bruno2 said:

I'm really hoping the situation you described plus some minor character concerns causes Micah Parsons to fall. The defense needs a playmaker at LB who can cover and  also pass rush when needed. I'd also be ok with Zaven Collins, JOK and Nick Bolton. Throw in DT Christian Barmore as well.

Gruden will probably be targeting OT though. It's tough to get excited about the draft when you don't what the heck the Raiders will do. It can be anyone from WR Kadarius Toney to Safety Trevon Moehrig. Or someone completely off everyone's radar like Arnette was last year. That's why I'll throw the name Jamin Davis out there too. Typical reach pick that isn't out of the realm of possibility. 

Really.... how often do you really know what a team will do in a draft besides maybe the first couple of picks. Even if you think you know what a team will do.... once things go, everything is thrown out the door.... “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” with surprise picks, trades, etc. 

It is why I laugh at mock drafts. They are SOOOOOOO useless but we like them because it keeps us entertained pre-draft. 

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2 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

I see him staying around the same. Snead will play in the slot too, taking some of his opportunities. 

Geez, I think I may be under valuing Snead. All of you seem to hold him in higher esteem than me. 

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  • Hankmoody changed the title to ☠ ☠ ☠ Official 2021 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☠ ☠ ☠ - only 3.5 more months of talking about draft reaches until real football arrives

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