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2021 Las Vegas Raiders - PLAYOFFS!!!! (4 Viewers)

Like most, I like the player, just not at 17.  I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't have moved back a few spots, get a few extra picks and still get the player they wanted.  However, you need to have a partner to trade with and I can only surmise that there were no takers to do so in the range we wanted.

In the end, my problem with the pick is I simply don't believe he would have been gone at #48 when the Raiders pick next.  That said, why not pick up a solid, strong, can't miss player, even along the OL in Darishaw, and then grab your guy at 48.  I would have gone D at 17 and felt pretty secure believing Leatherwood would be there at 48.  

I'm guessing they couldn't find a trade partner, they didn't grade Darishaw as high as everyone else and really, really liked Leatherwood....hence the pick.

If the Raiders didn't have a history on reaching for picks and having, let's just say questionable results, I would be ok with this pick and trust our guys.  The problem is, their history is their history and by reaching now, it's just horrible optics.  And we don't need anymore horrible optics.  We needed a safe and sound, strong pick at 17.  I still like the LB kid from ND and would have been happy with Kitty Paye.  If nothing else, their motors and energy would be a breath of fresh air for our defense.  

Anyway, done is done and we can't put the #### back in the horse so i'm going to stay positive and hope the rest of the draft goes well for us.  

 
Reach against mock drafts and reports? No argument.  But those are the only measuring sticks we have available right now. 
Is it a 'sexy' pick we will all rush out to buy a Jersey for? Nope.   
Should they have traded down if this was their main target at the top of their board? In our collective opinion, hell yes. 
Was another team looking to draft him in the next set of picks? Maybe not ... likely not.  But we will never know.

The pick addresses a need.  Offers a day 1 starter.  And gives an opportunity at a player who will have a 5th year option picked up and a 2nd contract.   I'll take those as day 1 picks any draft any year.  Instead of the splash player with off the field issues that isn't going to be around for years to come. 

I think we can all agree that this boards this year were all affected by covid in one way or another.  And reading between the lines of the latest Mayock press conference, I think they prioritized looking for a player they had solid information on.   Coming from a solid college program, a 3 year starter, played multiple positions, no medical concerns, didn't opt out for a valid reason or not.    The pick makes sense on it's own merit in my opinion. 

 
Silver & Black said:
Like most, I like the player, just not at 17.  I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't have moved back a few spots, get a few extra picks and still get the player they wanted.  However, you need to have a partner to trade with and I can only surmise that there were no takers to do so in the range we wanted.

In the end, my problem with the pick is I simply don't believe he would have been gone at #48 when the Raiders pick next.  That said, why not pick up a solid, strong, can't miss player, even along the OL in Darishaw, and then grab your guy at 48.  I would have gone D at 17 and felt pretty secure believing Leatherwood would be there at 48.  

I'm guessing they couldn't find a trade partner, they didn't grade Darishaw as high as everyone else and really, really liked Leatherwood....hence the pick.

If the Raiders didn't have a history on reaching for picks and having, let's just say questionable results, I would be ok with this pick and trust our guys.  The problem is, their history is their history and by reaching now, it's just horrible optics.  And we don't need anymore horrible optics.  We needed a safe and sound, strong pick at 17.  I still like the LB kid from ND and would have been happy with Kitty Paye.  If nothing else, their motors and energy would be a breath of fresh air for our defense.  

Anyway, done is done and we can't put the #### back in the horse so i'm going to stay positive and hope the rest of the draft goes well for us.  
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Yep!

It's funny, a good amount of Leatherwood scouting reports above could be about Kolton Miller.  

 
I am glad they took the RT over the safety.

It's just a more important position, especially for us, a team that is going to need to outscore people.

Calling it now:  We draft Moehrig, and Raider Nation is now happy, cause if you just reverse the draft slots, no one is a reach.  🤣

 
Interesting defensive guys that are still available:

JOK

Trevon Moehrig

Azeez Ojulari

Nick Bolton

Asante Samuel

Richie Grant

Christian Barmore

Ronnie Perkins

 
kaso said:
Reach against mock drafts and reports? No argument.  But those are the only measuring sticks we have available right now. 
Is it a 'sexy' pick we will all rush out to buy a Jersey for? Nope.   
Should they have traded down if this was their main target at the top of their board? In our collective opinion, hell yes. 
Was another team looking to draft him in the next set of picks? Maybe not ... likely not.  But we will never know.
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Interesting to note that no picks were traded down after 1.14 NYJ from MIN

 
Actually most draft "experts " didn't really rip the pick. Mel Kiper even said it was a decent draft pick that fit a need for the team, even if it was a bit early. I'm also comforted knowing that players they passed on: JOK, Moehrig, Jenkins and Mayfield are all still on the board. Clearly there's some information out there in the NFL community that hasn't been leaked to the media that caused these players to slide out of the 1st round. 

I can live with the Raiders having Leatherwood ranked higher than Jenkins, Darrisaw and Mayfield, I'm over it. It's just a bad look for a losing organization to keep reaching on players.

JOK must be suffering from not having a position. Maybe Gus isn't sure where to play him like the Cards struggled to do with Isaiah Simmons last year. Thus, causing his slide.

I'm glad they passed on Moehrig. Granted, it's a need but there's been enough 1st round draft capital invested in the Safety position recently. If they grab him or Holland in the 2nd round, I'd be on board with that.

Barmore is the intriguing one to me. His lack of motor must have really hurt his draft stock. Mayock said he had an hours long conversation with Nick Saban, he must have not had much good to say about Barmore. I have a feeling he'll go early off the board today.

 
A bunch of LB still available.  Collins was my favorite but he's gone but JOK, Jabril Cox, and Nick Bolton are all runners that can thrive in today's NFL.

 
massraider said:
I am glad they took the RT over the safety.

It's just a more important position, especially for us, a team that is going to need to outscore people.

Calling it now:  We draft Moehrig, and Raider Nation is now happy, cause if you just reverse the draft slots, no one is a reach.  🤣
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moehrig would have been a reach at 17.   :lmao:   but it will help, if he's drafted next.  just wait until they take a minuscule wr, with one of the next two picks.   :oldunsure:

 
Mayock conference.... confirmed RT day 1. Liked that he has played and can play multiple positions. 

There were a lot of conversations about trading down, specifically pointed out a team that called while on the clock but the offer was "poor". Also a team that needed a tackle in between. 

"lot of home work on him and knew it would be controversial" Aware that TV analysts had him lower and the fanbase will listen to that. 

Leatherwood was the top rated player on their board, offense or defense. 

Aware of the need for defense and hope to get better this weekend. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Mayock conference.... confirmed RT day 1. Liked that he has played and can play multiple positions. 

There were a lot of conversations about trading down, specifically pointed out a team that called while on the clock but the offer was "poor". Also a team that needed a tackle in between. 

"lot of home work on him and knew it would be controversial" Aware that TV analysts had him lower and the fanbase will listen to that. 

Leatherwood was the top rated player on their board, offense or defense. 

Aware of the need for defense and hope to get better this weekend. 
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glad they didn't take a 'poor' deal, like in 2018.

top rated player??  duh, they took him.  what else are they going to say?

and i'm glad he's 'aware' that the team has defensive needs.

 
Also, Leatherwood was "Cable's favorite player of the draft" and "second floor and third floor" (which is coaches and scouts) were all in agreement on loving him. 

 
with a nights sleep, i'm ok with this pick.   it's a need and i was projecting an OL or a LB.  i strongly feel that leatherwood would have been available at 48.  but wtf do i know   :shrug:   

i just don't get the way the gruden and mayock rank and draft players.  anyone would love for these clowns to be in their fantasy league.

 
Leatherwood the final straw in Las Vegas?

(11:25 AM) Word in league circles is a major shake-up in the Las Vegas Raiders’ front office will be coming soon after the draft and significant heads are expected to roll. The pick of Alex Leatherwood in the middle of Round 1 last night, a player they could have traded down and selected, is opening a lot of wounds and seems to be the final straw. Additionally, I’m also hearing about a lot of friction between major players in their front office.

This follows the selection of Damon Arnette in the middle of Round 1 in 2020 — a player I reported earlier this week has one foot out the door — and the surprise selection of Clelin Ferrell with the fourth pick of the 2019 NFL Draft. Last night follows the trend of players the Raiders select much earlier than their grades warranted. 
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https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-nfl-draft-rumors-buzz-draft-week/

 
Chadstroma said:
Also, Leatherwood was "Cable's favorite player of the draft" and "second floor and third floor" (which is coaches and scouts) were all in agreement on loving him. 
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i saw that too.  and cable's opinion on an OL, carries more weight with me, than either gruden or mayock.  so i see that as a pretty good sign.

i think leatherwood will be a fine pro.  a decent, to a pretty good player.  they needed on OL.  i just think they reached.  as they always seem to do. especially at the top of the draft.

 
zeeshan2 said:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-nfl-draft-rumors-buzz-draft-week/
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We have no idea of the inner workings of the Raiders front office. Who calls the final shots on these reaches? Davis? Gruden? Mayock? Clearly Cable has a lot of influence as well. Davis loves Gruden, he isn't going anywhere.  Unfortunately for Mayock, if Abram, Ruggs and Arnette don't make huge strides this season,  he will probably be the scapegoat. Especially if there's another mid-season collapse for a 3rd straight season. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
i think leatherwood will be a fine pro.  a decent, to a pretty good player.  they needed on OL.  i just think they reached.  as they always seem to do. especially at the top of the draft.
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The reaching and missing is taking its toll.  The team hasn’t drafted many or any stars under Gruden.   To add insult to injury, Gruden got rid of the two biggest stars when he arrived too.   

 
mayock has always been in a no win situation.  gruden is the 100,000,000 dollar man.  he has the final say.  about everything.  davis loves gruden.  obviously.   :rolleyes:   so mayock has always been primed, as the fall guy.  

and mayock is smart, he's not going to bite the hand that feeds him.  he says all the right things.  if they do use him as the fall guy, i wonder if he'll speak the truth at that point.  or continue to toe the line, in hopes of another GM job.

 
Bruno2 said:
We have no idea of the inner workings of the Raiders front office. Who calls the final shots on these reaches? Davis? Gruden? Mayock? Clearly Cable has a lot of influence as well. Davis loves Gruden, he isn't going anywhere.  Unfortunately for Mayock, if Abram, Ruggs and Arnette don't make huge strides this season,  he will probably be the scapegoat. Especially if there's another mid-season collapse for a 3rd straight season. 
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Too bad they didn’t shake up the front office after last years draft.   What else did they need to see after Ruggs and Arnette?   

Maybe the exiting employees will shed light on who is making these horrible decisions.  

 
DA RAIDERS said:
mayock has always been in a no win situation.  gruden is the 100,000,000 dollar man.  he has the final say.  about everything.  davis loves gruden.  obviously.   :rolleyes:   so mayock has always been primed, as the fall guy.  

and mayock is smart, he's not going to bite the hand that feeds him.  he says all the right things.  if they do use him as the fall guy, i wonder if he'll speak the truth at that point.  or continue to toe the line, in hopes of another GM job.
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What evidence is there that Mayock is powerless to the whim of Gruden, and is anything other than thrilled with the way the team is being built?

 
DA RAIDERS said:
mayock has always been in a no win situation.  gruden is the 100,000,000 dollar man.  he has the final say.  about everything.  davis loves gruden.  obviously.   :rolleyes:   so mayock has always been primed, as the fall guy.  

and mayock is smart, he's not going to bite the hand that feeds him.  he says all the right things.  if they do use him as the fall guy, i wonder if he'll speak the truth at that point.  or continue to toe the line, in hopes of another GM job.
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I don't know. I like Mayock, I think he's a smart guy and a good college talent evaluator. But theres other aspects of the GM position he lacks experience with. Like manipulating the draft board. He's not very good at moving up and down the draft board, and uses excuses for the reasons why they stay put and reach for their "guys". I think a lot has to do with his relationships with other GMs, which leads to an overall lack of experience in gauging what other teams will do and what players (positions) they target. 

Yesterday for example, did the Jets know Vera-Tucker was the true #1 OL on the Raiders draft board and made a trade to jump them to ensure they got him? Maybe... If we believe Mayock, then Leatherwood was really their #1 rated guy. We'll never know, but I believe it was AVT, and the Jets knew it, leaving the Raiders to take their 2nd rated OL and not being able to trade out. It just feels like since Mayock has come aboard, they are getting worked over by other GMs. 

 
massraider said:
What evidence is there that Mayock is powerless to the whim of Gruden, and is anything other than thrilled with the way the team is being built?
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none.  i understand that.

mayock has never done the job before.  hell, he's never had any front office job, of any kind.  he's working for one of the most egomaniacal coaches, to ever coach.  that coach has a 10 year, 100 million dollar contract.  the owner LOVES that coach.  to me, the writing is clearly on the wall.  always has been.  before a single day of mayock's tenure.  i like the guy.  i just don't think he's anything more than a sounding board for gruden.  he is probably handling the contract dealings, but choosing players?  that's all gruden

furthermore, mayock the draft honk, would not have had anything positive to say about the raiders drafting 3wrs with their first 4 picks.  and he would not have been thrilled with miller, ferrell, abrams,  arnette or leatherwood.  from the standpoint that all were taken too early

 
Leatherwood was a draft reach, likely; or maybe not - every year teams get hot on prospects the media undersells. Jaycee Horn was a prime example this year. For all we know, the team may have had some intel that Leatherwood was high on other boards too. Or they were faked into thinking so. Either way, he was clearly their guy. Being a go-getta in drafts myself, I can live with it if the player hits. But with similar picks Ferrell a B+, Ruggs an IC (incomplete), and Arnette a D (so far, at least), the fan base is feeling rightfully nervous about trusting Grudock's go-getta board.

 
That said, every pick is his own man living on his own merit. For all we know AL is the best OT in this class, and only Tom Cable had that figured out. Big, strong, athletic, 5-star U of AL OL, who can play any G or T position along the line. We got AL from AL to bookend AL's OL. It was destined. Ha.

 
It says a LOT to me that we aren't screaming about the guy they should have taken.

We don't know. Who was the defensive stud they passed on? Ummmm.......JOK and Moehrig fans are quiet, because now we know they weren't 1st rounders. Phillips and his concussions? Jamin Davis? Pffft.  Oweh, the EDGE with NO sacks last year??

It would not surprise me to see Leatherwood become a decent RT (C+ to B+ let's say), and the 2nd half of that first round to look like  a wasteland in a few years.  

The players available with the next 20 picks aren't graded too differently than the guys who went after Devonta Smith.  

 
14. Christian Barmore, Alabama, iDL 18. Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma, C 19. Ifeatu Melifonwu, Syracuse, CB 21. Trevon Moehrig, TCU, S 22. Landon Dickerson, Alabama, C 23. Azeez Ojulari, Georgia, EDGE

25. Baron Browning, Ohio State, LB 26. Samuel Cosmi, Texas, OT 27. Teven Jenkins, Oklahoma State, OT 28. Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina

Not including JOK.  

There's some names there that we can get behind.  

 
If they get a legit OT and at least one impact defender from the first three rounds of this draft, I would be stoked. Anything beyond that would be boss. JOK is still on the board. That dude has juice. 

---

Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina

Interesting to me as a BPA pick at some point today. One good way to create a better defense is to slow the game down with a strong and consistent running game. Monster OL + beastly 3-back committee = less time on Defense each week.

 
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LawFitz said:
If they get a legit OT and at least one impact defender from the first three rounds of this draft, I would be stoked. Anything beyond that would be boss. JOK is still on the board. That dude has juice. 

---

Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina

Interesting to me as a BPA pick at some point today. One good way to create a better defense is to slow the game down with a strong and consistent running game. Monster OL + beastly 3-back committee = less time on Defense each week.
Click to expand...
Liked all of this until the mention of a 3rd RB. We already have Jacobs and overpaid Drake. More defense please. An RB like J Williams would be a wasted pick for our real needs even with BPA and all

 
massraider said:
14. Christian Barmore, Alabama, iDL 18. Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma, C 19. Ifeatu Melifonwu, Syracuse, CB 21. Trevon Moehrig, TCU, S 22. Landon Dickerson, Alabama, C 23. Azeez Ojulari, Georgia, EDGE

25. Baron Browning, Ohio State, LB 26. Samuel Cosmi, Texas, OT 27. Teven Jenkins, Oklahoma State, OT 28. Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina

Not including JOK.  

There's some names there that we can get behind.  
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At 17, I would have went Barmore or Moehrig.  Maybe even JOK.  I would not have reached for Leatherhead   

Would have been fine with a few other prospects on D such as Newsome or Campbell.  I just want the D addressed.   Gruden needs to draft at least 5 players on D in a row hoping that the blind squirrels in LV find one nut.  

 
DocHolliday said:
At 17, I would have went Barmore or Moehrig.  Maybe even JOK.  I would not have reached for Leatherhead   

Would have been fine with a few other prospects on D such as Newsome or Campbell.  I just want the D addressed.   Gruden needs to draft at least 5 players on D in a row hoping that the blind squirrels in LV find one nut.  
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Before the draft, I would have agreed with you. And by no means am I defending the Leatherwood pick. But no one else drafted these guys in the 1st round when many teams had the needs. Maybe they just aren't 1st round grades....

 
Bruno2 said:
We have no idea of the inner workings of the Raiders front office. Who calls the final shots on these reaches? Davis? Gruden? Mayock? Clearly Cable has a lot of influence as well. Davis loves Gruden, he isn't going anywhere.  Unfortunately for Mayock, if Abram, Ruggs and Arnette don't make huge strides this season,  he will probably be the scapegoat. Especially if there's another mid-season collapse for a 3rd straight season. 
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A lot of people think Gruden is all powerful and everyone else is a yes man. 

Everything I know about Mayock and Cable.... they are pretty much as far away from being "yes" men as I can think of. I don't think Mayock would have taken a job of being Gruden's order boy. I think there is great mutual respect between Gruden and Mayock and they work together on evaluation. 

Another think about Mayock. He does not care what other people say. He trusts his evaluations work he puts in so he had never got into group think which I think most talking heads have a tendency to do as it is the 'safe' route to go. After all, if you go solo on a guy and love him and it is a bust- you suck. If you follow everyone and love a guy and he busts- well, no one saw it coming. Mayock has the balls to go with what he thinks. 

I think the majority of whining is about Cle and last years draft and ignores a few things: 

FIRST- 2019 was a GREAT draft. Cle is much better than what he is given credit for because he doesn't get the sack numbers... and sack numbers is what is sexy and everyone cares about. He does everything else very well to exceptional. He is usually ranked just outside of the top 10 of DE's.

Then you have Josh Jacobs, who is a stud RB. Top 10 RB talent.

Abram, his rookie season was wiped out and last year he struggled to be where he was suppose to be... but guess what? The entire defense, included vets, did as well! I do expect much better pay from him and the defensive unit altogether simply with a new coach that can make sure these guys know the system and the gameplan. 

Next is Mullen. He has proven he is a starting caliber CB in this league. 

Isaiah Johnson, so far we have not got a return on this pick as well as the next in Moreau. I think there is reason to be optimistic for Moreau to make an impact still though I am not expecting much from Johnson. 

Renfrow in the 5th. That is one heck of a nice 5th rounder to get! 

and then Bell.... gone. 

That is a nice draft and then coupled with how underwhelming that draft has been as a whole, it is a freaking stellar draft! 
 

Then last years draft.... I think it is just too early to tell except for the mistake with Bowden. 

 
Only JOK excites me from the list of remaining LBs...

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/LB?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL&year=2021

Also not seeing anyone on the EDGE list that stands out as a good mid rd 2 pick. Maybe Ojulari as a developmental edge, but you're paying  upside price for a guy that could have a low floor. I'd like him better in rd 3 or later...

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/EDGE?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL&year=2021

Safety list has a number of decent names, which makes me think better to wait until rd 3, since there's some depth here...

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/SAF?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL&year=2021

---

I don't see any roster room for another DT or base DE. Maybe Barmore if he falls to mid 2nd as BPA, but then he'd need to displace a vet DT. JOK is the lone remaining impact LB/S/Edge - I wouldn't be mad seeing them use one of the two 3rds to move up in rd 2 for him. The thing I like most about JOK is he can play like a Joker - FS, Nickel LB, disguised Edge rusher. You take a baller like that and find creative ways to deploy him! 

 
If Chucky must indulge himself, I wouldn't mind this guy if he lasts til day 3, to replace the stiffs at the bottom of the WR corps.

Amari Rodgers, WR, Clemson (5-foot-10, 212 pounds)
Rodgers is very natural catching the ball in stride and seamlessly becoming a ball carrier, and there is a rumble pack on the clicker when you watch his tape because you feel his play strength and toughness. He has elusive feet to shake defenders and settle in zones, but he still requires maturation as a downfield route runner. Overall, Rodgers might struggle to win on the outside vs. NFL corners, but he is a cranked-up competitor with the play strength, instincts and acceleration similar to Deebo Samuel. He projects as a versatile starting slot receiver with special teams skills.
Click to expand...

 
Chadstroma said:
I don't really agree. We have two holes. RT and FS. 

I think we got players on the D line. We have starting LBs that can play. I don't think there is a FS worth getting there. Tackles are a 1st round position and we needed one. 

Could we have gone JOK to upgrade LB? Yes but it wouldn't have filled a need like this does. We really didn't have a RT. We otherwise would have had to send Good to RT. Now we can keep Good where he us really good at G and fill that RT. 

I don't know enough about the player to say one way or another but the position pick makes sense.
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Keep trying, Chad. Maybe you'll convince yourself. You're not convincing most.

"I think we got players on the D line." Yes, the Raiders do. Now if only you could insert the word "good" before "players."

"We have starting LBs that can play." Yes, the Raiders do. Now if only you could insert the word "well" after "play."

"We have two holes. RT and FS...Could we have gone JOK to upgrade LB? Yes but it wouldn't have filled a need like this does." The whole friggin' D is a massive hole.

Chad, there's something to be said for a voice in the wilderness. But when everybody else is holding their noses while you're smelling roses, you better  sniff a little closer. You maybe be smelling the fertilizer that helps those roses grow. 😉

 
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Hankmoody said:
Haters are gonna hate that pick "because mocks" but I'll tell you what that dude was a BEAST early on in his career. 
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So was Arden Key. He was Kiper's No. 1 player after his sophomore or maybe junior year. And Gruden burned a third on him.

 
Chadstroma said:
Also, Leatherwood was "Cable's favorite player of the draft" and "second floor and third floor" (which is coaches and scouts) were all in agreement on loving him. 
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I'll bet Gus Bradley wasn't doing cartwheels. 😉

 
Dear RaidersNation,

MoP really feels for you and I do give credit to ownership for trying to go and put things back together(Gruden). I hope Leatherwood works out and Oakland truly needed some OL help but again as I posted in the Miami Dolphins thread, when you draft in order to plug holes you typically are not one of the better franchises in the NFL. Exceptions of course but it seems to ring true.

My problem with Gruden is we are going into Year 4 and you lost 3 OL in the off season and you have a huge hole on the OL, how did it get to that point? Why were there not at least 2-3 reserves you were grooming or teaching behind the guys you struck out on? 

Leatherwood is not a bad Tackle, he isn't. He's just doesn't seem like a franchise player is all I'm saying. He did provide very sound pass blocking for the guy who was drafted 2 spots ahead of him and run blocking for the guy 7 spots behind him. 

 
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I don't know about the rest of you but I googled "Gruden's latest draft pick disaster" first thing this morning.

I tuned in starting at pick 6 and it wasn't until the Raiders pick did I hear the word "reach." Ya can't make this stuff up. 😁

Mayock said all the scouts and coaches were in agreement on the pick. Yeah, right. There was a question about whether Gruden has a bunch of "yes" men under him. Maybe he does. 🤷‍♂️

Mayock also said they had an offer but the team offering also needed a tackle and he said the deal was "poor." I thot that was refreshing.

I'm with most. They needed a RT. He should be a good one. They just took him too early with all the glaring needs on the other side of the ball. Maybe Gruden's plan is control the ball for 45 minutes and keep the D off the field.

 
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