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Was Disbanding the Pandemic Response Team the Worst Decision in the History of the United States? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dezbelief
- Start date
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Perhaps I should have phrased the question as the deadliest decision... uh I guess you would win that one too. One two word response in a matter of seconds has defeated me, thanks for finding the hole in my logic. I'll tuck my tail and return to the Covid thread in the FFA forum.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Who else were we electing, Hillary?
I dont know if it was the worst decision, but its in the team picture.
I dont know if it was the worst decision, but its in the team picture.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
We could have still made better decisions regarding this pandemic. We’ve made a lot of bad decisions as a country. If you want to say “overall handling of the pandemic” and the resulting deaths I might agree, but having a pandemic response team doesn’t mean the people in charge would have listened to them any more than they listened to any other experts.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I heard slavery was pretty bad too.
rockaction
Footballguy
I was going to say Dred Scott or Plessy vs. Ferguson were up there.
So wasn't Manifest Destiny and smallpox blankets.
In all, we've done worse. Still love my country. Still a patriot. But there are at least potential constitutional questions about a pandemic response team if you squint hard enough. The other stuff listed are moral abrogations of charity and duty.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Not that anybody is saying it but just because it’s not close to the worst decision ever doesn’t mean it wasn’t a colossally horrible idea.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
One might argue that not voting for the impeachment of Trump was worse ...he was allowed to finish his term and was emboldened to continue, well, being Trump. That led to the recent election - and the assault on democracy. We'll have to see how that plays out in the years ahead. Did he do lasting damage to the republic, or will he be merely a historical footnote of a strange era (ala McCarthyism) as the nation returns to some degree of normalcy?
timschochet
Footballguy
Any decision in which the consequences are unintended shouldn’t be compared with those in which the results are deliberately planned out. So, no.
I'm not saying anyone here is like this, but the sad but realistic answer for a lot of people is:
"I need to know who is to blame here before I can answer".
Tribalism is strong. And I think striving to move past that is important.
"I need to know who is to blame here before I can answer".
Tribalism is strong. And I think striving to move past that is important.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’m not sure if there was ever a time where we were good as a nation about accountability but the idea that nothing is my fault, it’s always somebody’s else’s fault is a plague on our society. I’ve taught my kids to own up to their mistakes, admit when you are wrong and then learn from it and try to do better next time. Today, it’s considered a weakness to admit fault and part of that is because as soon as you do everybody piles on. I’d like to see leaders start taking responsibility for their mistakes - own it and work to do better, don’t just blame somebody else.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sad because of the "sides" aspect? Or sad because people don't have the basic understanding/information of how government works to understand who's in charge and require being spoon fed info?
Sad because of the hypocrisy aspect.Sad because of the "sides" aspect? Or sad because people don't have the basic understanding/information of how government works to understand who's in charge and require being spoon fed info?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I'm disappointed to see so many Pro-Covid voices in this thread.
timschochet
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Look at us agreeing on something.Sea Duck said:
Healing baby!
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I’m not sure it does much good trying to rank bad decisions like a TimDraft.
I will say that it is one of the more inexplicable decisions simply because I haven’t heard any explanation fir the decision other than that anything the Obama administration did must be bad.
it’s become apparent today that I’m probably losing my Dad to COVID. So I’ve certainly been thinking about responsibility. And it’s tough. Lots of mistakes have been made at many levels (some by guys like Cuino who took unseemly and gross victory laps). And my Dad ( who was having a difficult recovery from a heart attack and bypass surgery when COVID first hit) was always going to have a hard time if he got it. Once I heard it was in my folks assisted living facility at the beginning of December there’s been a sense of fatalism.
I don’t know who I can blame. Maybe nobody. But I can say that I don’t understand people like Atlas and others who seemed to reject the very premise that this a health crisis. Particularly those who seem to think that it doesn’t matter because it disproportionately affects the old and the sick.
butvz also kind of blame “my side” because it was hard to find a mainstream political figure championing what seemed to me to be the most likely effective policy. Which was to pay people and businesses to lock down. I get that it was an election year, but I think our collective timidity cost lives.
I will say that it is one of the more inexplicable decisions simply because I haven’t heard any explanation fir the decision other than that anything the Obama administration did must be bad.
it’s become apparent today that I’m probably losing my Dad to COVID. So I’ve certainly been thinking about responsibility. And it’s tough. Lots of mistakes have been made at many levels (some by guys like Cuino who took unseemly and gross victory laps). And my Dad ( who was having a difficult recovery from a heart attack and bypass surgery when COVID first hit) was always going to have a hard time if he got it. Once I heard it was in my folks assisted living facility at the beginning of December there’s been a sense of fatalism.
I don’t know who I can blame. Maybe nobody. But I can say that I don’t understand people like Atlas and others who seemed to reject the very premise that this a health crisis. Particularly those who seem to think that it doesn’t matter because it disproportionately affects the old and the sick.
butvz also kind of blame “my side” because it was hard to find a mainstream political figure championing what seemed to me to be the most likely effective policy. Which was to pay people and businesses to lock down. I get that it was an election year, but I think our collective timidity cost lives.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm very sorry to hear about your dad. Best of luck to you and your family.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Gross hyperbole
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
So sorry to hear RHE. :(
Mookie
Footballguy
Getting rid of the pandemic response team was just one dumb move in a series of hundreds, maybe thousands of really dumb decisions - from blaming China, claiming it would be over by Easter, advising us to drink bleach, putting Jared and Pence in charge, refusing to impose a national shut down, relying upon "guidelines" over mandatory health orders, refusing to wear masks, encouraging large scale gatherings, and on and on. It was a near complete abdication of federal responsibility.
There have been so many mistakes, false promises, misinformation campaigns, and outright lies. The one glimmer of hope seemed to be the vaccine rollout, but there has been very little rollout and a lot of foot dragging. In fact, the Administration set a goal for 40 million vaccinations by the end of 2020, and only delivered on 2.1 million. But I'm sure that too is someone else's fault because this Administration takes no responsibility. It's all been one colossal, abject failure.
There have been so many mistakes, false promises, misinformation campaigns, and outright lies. The one glimmer of hope seemed to be the vaccine rollout, but there has been very little rollout and a lot of foot dragging. In fact, the Administration set a goal for 40 million vaccinations by the end of 2020, and only delivered on 2.1 million. But I'm sure that too is someone else's fault because this Administration takes no responsibility. It's all been one colossal, abject failure.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sorry to hear RHE :(
Hopefully things turn for the better. It's a somber reminder that this thing is real and impacting many (as if we need another). Just sucks all around, and I get really angry when I see "anti-mask" groups taking over malls and stores in "protest". It's all very surreal.
Hopefully things turn for the better. It's a somber reminder that this thing is real and impacting many (as if we need another). Just sucks all around, and I get really angry when I see "anti-mask" groups taking over malls and stores in "protest". It's all very surreal.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I second this RHE. I caregive to my 86-YO mother with dementia. It is next to impossible to get her to go see a doctor because of the news she hears on TV. I know a few younger who have had it, its very real.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Dezbelief
Footballguy
I lost my FIL Saturday, he went to the hospital the 23rd in an ambulance and they tried sending him right back home, but his O2 kept dropping every time they stood him up. He was diagnosed with Covid later that night and died before clearing the infection. Our hospital has been over capacity since the middle of November. The ventilators have all been in use nonstop. My city has hovered around 100,000 my whole life. We have had 11,544 confirmed cases and 208 deaths. Our positivity rate across the entire pandemic is 17.6% with the highest two weeks at 39% and 42%. We are losing 2 or 3 people everyday day in and day out to Covid, some days it's 5 to 8. You can go into any store and find people without masks. There are stores without a single employee wearing a mask. It all feels surreal. My FIL was a good man who lived a good life, his downfall was his devout religiousness. Communion was the mostly likely way he contracted covid, but with the nonexistent contract tracing in my county we will never actually know.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Joe Bryant said:
If you must know, I lean left and believe in doing the most good to those who work hard but still do not have the means to make ends meet. There are things I vehemently hate about both parties and I believe political fundraising needs to be completely overhauled. It really doesn't matter which party is in power the same financially elite pull the strings behind the curtain. I despise super PACs and dark money. I hate that while more Americans are dying each day than at Pearl Harbor the wealth gap between the rich and the struggling is growing more and more each and every day. I lean towards giving a person a hand up and not a handout. I also despise able bodied people who live off the system. I believe in supporting the elderly and the disabled. I lean more to socialism than to fascism. I most of all hate hypocrisy and those who feel self righteous while turning a blind eye to all the wrong and damage their party is bringing down upon the American people. There are so many things to reform in this country I feel we need to gut it all and build back from the studs, knock down some walls and open up the floor plan.Joe Bryant said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sorry to hear for you and RHE.
Lost my father in law Sunday (non-covid related...Cancer can piss off). Thankfully they were able to get in pretty quick to a funeral home this week. Have to go...but will be big time masked up and keeping distanced from people. Worried enough about what could spread out of this.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
A copy of the post I posted in the Covid thread in FFA which has been my FBG home in 2020.
I am at a crossroads here gentlemen. Joe and I are complete opposites. I feel he is a conservative who lives a liberal life, I have a BIL like this. I am a liberal who lives a conservative life. Joe and I both want to do good things for people but we have vastly different views on the who, what, when, where and why of it. Joe is passive aggressive and snarky. I don't remember what thread it was but he started one in here in FFA a year maybe two years ago and displayed those two traits. My dislike for Joe started then and has unfortunately grown to be more much more. I have no doubt despite what Joe may post in here or elsewhere that the feelings are mutual. I started posting on FBG after my home board slowed down so much that there weren't enough people to give me what I enjoy most about being a part of a message board, a variety of viewpoints from a variety people.
I want to thank everyone in here again for all their posts, viewpoints and most of all sharing of their knowledge well beyond my own. You all have helped me save countless lives in my life and my community as I act upon and share knowledge in my community about this deadly virus. I nor you all will ever know how many but even one is something for all of us to be proud of. I started wearing a mask daily as soon as cases started popping up in my city. I have tried to set a good example for all and I have shared knowledge I gained from this thread to anyone who would listen to me.
My job takes me briefly into people's lives of all walks of life on a daily basis. Before covid I would be inside the the most expensive mansions, the least expensive homes that probably should be condemned, the local homeless shelters, motels with weekly and monthly rates and into the homes of the segment of society I am most honored to serve the unappreciated working class. These days most of my conversations are done from me on the sidewalk to my customers on their porch. I don't give them handshakes or hugs. I would get dozens of both daily before covid. So many good people I have passed on knowledge from this thread. Part of this knowledge helped me to procure supplies before the great toilet paper run of 2020. I was able to share surgical masks with people when there were none available. There were people in tears over getting one or two masks.
I haven't shared this in this thread partly because of the embarrassment, shame and deep regret I have from failing to protect one of my own from this deadly virus. My FIL passed away Saturday January 2nd at 12:40PM from a covid infection that to my knowledge never cleared his system. Funerals are so backed up the earliest we could schedule his burial is 11 days after his death. Tim was 67, was a little overweight and took a single pill daily. He called it his heart pill I have been meaning to find out exactly what med he was taking. He lost his wife well before I met my wife, this spring we will have been married 12 years. He lived alone and would get a bit of depression from it sometimes. I can only imagine. He has 5 children who have all graduated college, married and are all productive members of society. He was a good man who did good things for everyone in his life. My own father passed away September 6, 2013. Tim became a father to me since then. It was not like a father he was a father and treated me and all his children's spouses like we were his children. He had a great love for his whole family. He was a devout Roman Catholic who never missed mass if he was physically able to attend. We will never know definitely but all suspect he caught the virus partaking in communion. For those of you not in the faith or in other faiths the Catholics line up in front of the priest and partake from the same cup. The cup even before covid is wiped with a cloth between each person, however it is the same cloth used each time over and over so in effect the cloth is probably spreading uncleanliness rather than cleanliness. Church and family is/was his whole life. He made arrangements for his own funeral after the passing of his wife, part of the arrangements are a mass at his church. Communion is part of the services, I will not be partaking and will ask the extended family not to partake but I'm sure many will.
Tim was 67 years old, had recently paid off his house and retired. It feels like what he has worked so hard for all his life has been stolen from him. He lived perhaps 30 houses down from mine on the same block (my literal block is 5 1/2 miles and stretches outside my neighborhood) and my 11yo daughter frequently rode her bike to grandpa's to visit with him. She has been hit hard by this they were extremely close, of Tim's 10 grandchildren she was the closest to him. They had a wonderful love for another and both love to joke around and play pranks. My wife warned me when we started dating not to leave my keys laying around her Dad's house or I might find them in the freezer.
Anyways to get back to the reason for this post I first confessed this horrible tale in the politics forum in the first thread I started there and either the second or third post I've made in that forum.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/791919-was-disbanding-the-pandemic-response-team-the-worst-decision-in-the-history-of-the-united-states/
Joe is his usual passive aggressive and snarky self in that thread. First throwing passive aggressive thinly veiled insults my direction, I reply and then Joe purposely fails to offer his condolences for me and my family's great loss, but does offer his condolences to another who expects to lose his father in the near future. This goes back to how Joe and I are polar opposites no matter how I feel about someone I can always empathize with them. Joe has proven he can not and will not. What little bit of respect I had remaining for Joe is completely gone and will likely never return. My first inclination was to pick up my ball and leave forever however in typing this out this post I have changed course, perhaps the more appropriate response is to stick around here and continue to gain knowledge and wisdom from you guys not just in this thread or forum but across most of it. Of course that is if Joe doesn't ban me and block me from his site like he did in the past when I had the gall to disparage his great leader. If I'm not around much for a bit it's because I'm taking care of my grieving wife and daughter. I usually wake before everyone else in the family sometimes at 3AM. Lord I'm getting old, I spend this time as my free time to read and learn while the house is quiet.
Also the amount of the amount of crying reactions to the other poster's post vs own are a great example of the very tribalism Joe tries to insult me with and proof of Joe's systemic moderation in trying to promote tribalism on this very board. I'm sorry Joe if I'm not as passive aggressive as you are I prefer to be more direct and if that earns me a perma ban I will stand proud knowing I stood up to a bully with more power than I. Joe I truly wish the best for you and truly hope this virus does not touch your family the way it has mine. I may not like you but I still have compassion for you and hope you can look within yourself and grow into a better person. If you do that you will earn back my respect.
RIP Tim you are loved and missed greatly by all whose lives you touched.
Edited 14 minutes ago by Dezbelief
Trying to clean up my grammar. Punctuation and run-on sentences are a failing of mine that I am often unable to catch as I self edit.
I am at a crossroads here gentlemen. Joe and I are complete opposites. I feel he is a conservative who lives a liberal life, I have a BIL like this. I am a liberal who lives a conservative life. Joe and I both want to do good things for people but we have vastly different views on the who, what, when, where and why of it. Joe is passive aggressive and snarky. I don't remember what thread it was but he started one in here in FFA a year maybe two years ago and displayed those two traits. My dislike for Joe started then and has unfortunately grown to be more much more. I have no doubt despite what Joe may post in here or elsewhere that the feelings are mutual. I started posting on FBG after my home board slowed down so much that there weren't enough people to give me what I enjoy most about being a part of a message board, a variety of viewpoints from a variety people.
I want to thank everyone in here again for all their posts, viewpoints and most of all sharing of their knowledge well beyond my own. You all have helped me save countless lives in my life and my community as I act upon and share knowledge in my community about this deadly virus. I nor you all will ever know how many but even one is something for all of us to be proud of. I started wearing a mask daily as soon as cases started popping up in my city. I have tried to set a good example for all and I have shared knowledge I gained from this thread to anyone who would listen to me.
My job takes me briefly into people's lives of all walks of life on a daily basis. Before covid I would be inside the the most expensive mansions, the least expensive homes that probably should be condemned, the local homeless shelters, motels with weekly and monthly rates and into the homes of the segment of society I am most honored to serve the unappreciated working class. These days most of my conversations are done from me on the sidewalk to my customers on their porch. I don't give them handshakes or hugs. I would get dozens of both daily before covid. So many good people I have passed on knowledge from this thread. Part of this knowledge helped me to procure supplies before the great toilet paper run of 2020. I was able to share surgical masks with people when there were none available. There were people in tears over getting one or two masks.
I haven't shared this in this thread partly because of the embarrassment, shame and deep regret I have from failing to protect one of my own from this deadly virus. My FIL passed away Saturday January 2nd at 12:40PM from a covid infection that to my knowledge never cleared his system. Funerals are so backed up the earliest we could schedule his burial is 11 days after his death. Tim was 67, was a little overweight and took a single pill daily. He called it his heart pill I have been meaning to find out exactly what med he was taking. He lost his wife well before I met my wife, this spring we will have been married 12 years. He lived alone and would get a bit of depression from it sometimes. I can only imagine. He has 5 children who have all graduated college, married and are all productive members of society. He was a good man who did good things for everyone in his life. My own father passed away September 6, 2013. Tim became a father to me since then. It was not like a father he was a father and treated me and all his children's spouses like we were his children. He had a great love for his whole family. He was a devout Roman Catholic who never missed mass if he was physically able to attend. We will never know definitely but all suspect he caught the virus partaking in communion. For those of you not in the faith or in other faiths the Catholics line up in front of the priest and partake from the same cup. The cup even before covid is wiped with a cloth between each person, however it is the same cloth used each time over and over so in effect the cloth is probably spreading uncleanliness rather than cleanliness. Church and family is/was his whole life. He made arrangements for his own funeral after the passing of his wife, part of the arrangements are a mass at his church. Communion is part of the services, I will not be partaking and will ask the extended family not to partake but I'm sure many will.
Tim was 67 years old, had recently paid off his house and retired. It feels like what he has worked so hard for all his life has been stolen from him. He lived perhaps 30 houses down from mine on the same block (my literal block is 5 1/2 miles and stretches outside my neighborhood) and my 11yo daughter frequently rode her bike to grandpa's to visit with him. She has been hit hard by this they were extremely close, of Tim's 10 grandchildren she was the closest to him. They had a wonderful love for another and both love to joke around and play pranks. My wife warned me when we started dating not to leave my keys laying around her Dad's house or I might find them in the freezer.
Anyways to get back to the reason for this post I first confessed this horrible tale in the politics forum in the first thread I started there and either the second or third post I've made in that forum.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/791919-was-disbanding-the-pandemic-response-team-the-worst-decision-in-the-history-of-the-united-states/
Joe is his usual passive aggressive and snarky self in that thread. First throwing passive aggressive thinly veiled insults my direction, I reply and then Joe purposely fails to offer his condolences for me and my family's great loss, but does offer his condolences to another who expects to lose his father in the near future. This goes back to how Joe and I are polar opposites no matter how I feel about someone I can always empathize with them. Joe has proven he can not and will not. What little bit of respect I had remaining for Joe is completely gone and will likely never return. My first inclination was to pick up my ball and leave forever however in typing this out this post I have changed course, perhaps the more appropriate response is to stick around here and continue to gain knowledge and wisdom from you guys not just in this thread or forum but across most of it. Of course that is if Joe doesn't ban me and block me from his site like he did in the past when I had the gall to disparage his great leader. If I'm not around much for a bit it's because I'm taking care of my grieving wife and daughter. I usually wake before everyone else in the family sometimes at 3AM. Lord I'm getting old, I spend this time as my free time to read and learn while the house is quiet.
Also the amount of the amount of crying reactions to the other poster's post vs own are a great example of the very tribalism Joe tries to insult me with and proof of Joe's systemic moderation in trying to promote tribalism on this very board. I'm sorry Joe if I'm not as passive aggressive as you are I prefer to be more direct and if that earns me a perma ban I will stand proud knowing I stood up to a bully with more power than I. Joe I truly wish the best for you and truly hope this virus does not touch your family the way it has mine. I may not like you but I still have compassion for you and hope you can look within yourself and grow into a better person. If you do that you will earn back my respect.
RIP Tim you are loved and missed greatly by all whose lives you touched.
Edited 14 minutes ago by Dezbelief
Trying to clean up my grammar. Punctuation and run-on sentences are a failing of mine that I am often unable to catch as I self edit.
Hi @Dezbelief
I'm not sure we've had any interactions or discussions before so I'm not sure what I've done to make you feel so negatively towards me. It doesn't sound like there's anything I can say there. I'll just say I'm sorry.
I'm especially sorry for the loss of your father in law. Sounds like he was a special man and I'm sure will be missed. Best to you and yours.
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I missed this. Sorry.
Sending you as much thoprawishes I can - much love.
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