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*** Chargers Official 2021 Thread - Brother, Could You Spare A Couple Of DTs? ***


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Out: Hunter Henry TE, Rayshawn Jeffries S, Casey Hayward CB, Trai Turner G, Nick Vigil LB

Probably Out: Isaac Rochelle DE

In: Corey Linsley C, Matt Fieler G/T

Resigned: Michael Davis CB

Linsley is 29 years old and has missed a handful of games since he was drafted in 2014. I figure he doesn't make it through training camp healthy and plays in about 5 games this year. He's now the highest paid center in the league.

@Just Win Baby what's our cap space situation now?

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  • Gr00vus changed the title to *** Official Chargers 2021 Thread - Now Proud Payers Of Largest Center Contract In The League ***
4 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Out: Hunter Henry TE, Rayshawn Jeffries S, Casey Hayward CB, Trai Turner G, Nick Vigil LB

Probably Out: Isaac Rochelle DE

In: Corey Linsley C, Matt Fieler G/T

Resigned: Michael Davis CB

Linsley is 29 years old and has missed a handful of games since he was drafted in 2014. I figure he doesn't make it through training camp healthy and plays in about 5 games this year. He's now the highest paid center in the league.

@Just Win Baby what's our cap space situation now?

Surprised they didn't sign Henry to a long term contract.

Happy with all of the other decisions so far.

Don't really know the cap situation without knowing the terms of the contracts for Linsley, Fieler, and Davis. They cleared $21M in cap space by rleasing Turner and Hayward, so that clearly helps.

I hope they don't let Mike Williams play under his 5th year option for ~$15.7M this season. That is the other big decision that could have significant cap impact.

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2 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Surprised they didn't sign Henry to a long term contract.

Happy with all of the other decisions so far.

Don't really know the cap situation without knowing the terms of the contracts for Linsley, Fieler, and Davis. They cleared $21M in cap space by rleasing Turner and Hayward, so that clearly helps.

I hope they don't let Mike Williams play under his 5th year option for ~$15.7M this season. That is the other big decision that could have significant cap impact.

Corey Linsley = 5 years, $62.5 million,  26 million over first two seasons, not sure how much is guaranteed

Michael Davis = 3 years, $15 million guaranteed, not sure of total contract

Matt Fieler = 3 years, $21 million, not sure how much is guaranteed

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54 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Out: Hunter Henry TE, Rayshawn Jeffries S, Casey Hayward CB, Trai Turner G, Nick Vigil LB

Probably Out: Isaac Rochelle DE

In: Corey Linsley C, Matt Fieler G/T

Resigned: Michael Davis CB

Linsley is 29 years old and has missed a handful of games since he was drafted in 2014. I figure he doesn't make it through training camp healthy and plays in about 5 games this year. He's now the highest paid center in the league.

@Just Win Baby what's our cap space situation now?

Prior to this season he hadn't missed a game in his last 3 years, and he was 1st team all-pro so he deserves to be the highest paid center in the league.

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Packers fan here - you are getting the best center in the NFL. 1st team all pro and number one graded center per PFF. Can run and pass block equally well. Sounds like Bulaga joined in the recruiting as well.  

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1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

He's a Charger now, and therefore subject to the OL injury jinx.

 

1 hour ago, humpback said:

Perhaps, but judging by the title he seems a bit caught up with the contract. Great signing IMO.

 

What MT said. The Chargers paying top dollar for a 29 year old with a lot of mileage - I feel like I know how this story ends, and it's not a happy ending. Even so, we've been complaining about how lousy the O Line has been for a long time, here at least they're making a serious effort to address part of it.

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

What MT said. The Chargers paying top dollar for a 29 year old with a lot of mileage - I feel like I know how this story ends, and it's not a happy ending. Even so, we've been complaining about how lousy the O Line has been for a long time, here at least they're making a serious effort to address part of it.

They're paying top dollar because he's the top center in the league and 29 isn't old (for a center). Only $26 mil guaranteed and they can get out with minimum dead cap hit after 2 years if they want, this is one of the best signings of any team so far in free agency IMO.

Edited by humpback
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Posted (edited)

Tyrod Taylor signs with the Texans.

Chargers resign Michael Badgley K - 1 year, don't know $ yet. I guess they really wanted to see if he can miss more than 12 kicks in 2021.

Edited by Gr00vus
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  • Gr00vus changed the title to *** Official Chargers 2021 Thread - Resign 2nd worst K in NFL ***
2 hours ago, humpback said:

Think they're now in a pretty good position to go BPA. They've solidified the O-line enough that they don't absolutely have to draft one there, although that would still seem to make the most sense IMO.

No they haven't. Not even close. The only place they have a plus player on that line is center.

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52 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

No they haven't. Not even close. The only place they have a plus player on that line is center.

If you say so. :lmao:

Their line is vastly improved over last year already, and there are still several options they could add in free agency. They no longer "have" to draft a lineman with that pick, especially if it's a reach. Like I said, I still think it would make sense to, but it would be idiotic to force one there if it isn't good value.

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2 hours ago, humpback said:

If you say so. :lmao:

Their line is vastly improved over last year already, and there are still several options they could add in free agency. They no longer "have" to draft a lineman with that pick, especially if it's a reach. Like I said, I still think it would make sense to, but it would be idiotic to force one there if it isn't good value.

They needed significant upgrades at all five spots, just to get to average.. They've addressed one, maybe two of them. That's an improvement, but the overall line hasn't been vastly improved. There's a long way to go before you can say that. Let's see how they address LT.

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2 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

They needed significant upgrades at all five spots, just to get to average.. They've addressed one, maybe two of them. That's an improvement, but the overall line hasn't been vastly improved. There's a long way to go before you can say that. Let's see how they address LT.

I agree with this,  but I just don't know if any of the top OT in this draft after sewell are really built like OTs. Been watching Slater and Darrisaw lately and they look more like interior guys. Obviously I am no scout and I don't even try to pretend to be one but they just don't jump out to me.  I just don't know if value will be there at 12 for oline.  Daniel Jeremiah says that he would rate any of the top 3 tackles last year ahead of any from this year. 

Pass rush might be the best value at 12. I'd like to see if they could trade back too.  Reading that OL is deep this year,  just not top heavy.  Would be nice to see them come away with a few big uglies. 

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I'd be fine with that. They need to improve both their starters and their depth on the offensive line. It's probably not all going to happen in one offseason. I think they'll still need an edge rusher after FA is mostly wrapped up. I hope they make the most judicious use of their draft capital possible - BPA, trading back for more picks, whatever. I definitely don't want another trade up for skill position guys though.

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4 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

They needed significant upgrades at all five spots, just to get to average.. They've addressed one, maybe two of them. That's an improvement, but the overall line hasn't been vastly improved. There's a long way to go before you can say that. Let's see how they address LT.

It's relative to their line last year, not where they stack up against the rest of the NFL. They couldn't possibly have improved at C any more than they did, even if they did nothing else you could argue that their line would be vastly improved. They also added a very solid G/T. Bulaga should play more than he did last year. There are still other options out there for them to add as well.

It's pretty clear that their line is much improved over last year already with room for more.

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4 hours ago, humpback said:

It's relative to their line last year, not where they stack up against the rest of the NFL. They couldn't possibly have improved at C any more than they did, even if they did nothing else you could argue that their line would be vastly improved. They also added a very solid G/T. Bulaga should play more than he did last year. There are still other options out there for them to add as well.

It's pretty clear that their line is much improved over last year already with room for more.

I get what you are saying, but, literally, as things stand today, they have lost last year's starters at LT, LG, C, and RG, and added a starting C and LG (assuming that's where Feiler plays).

As of today, their starting LT would be Pipkins or Norton. As of today, their starting RG would probably be Quessenberry.

Now, of course, they can still (re-)sign and draft additional OL players. They have to do that... they only have 6 final roster-caliber OL under contract right now. But that is still a lot of uncertainty about 2/5 of the starting OL as well as the depth.

So for you to be making definitive statements about improvement over last year seems premature. That will probably (hopefully) be true once all is said and done... but not yet.

Maybe I'm just scarred by the past 15 years...

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9 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

I get what you are saying, but, literally, as things stand today, they have lost last year's starters at LT, LG, C, and RG, and added a starting C and LG (assuming that's where Feiler plays).

As of today, their starting LT would be Pipkins or Norton. As of today, their starting RG would probably be Quessenberry.

Now, of course, they can still (re-)sign and draft additional OL players. They have to do that... they only have 6 final roster-caliber OL under contract right now. But that is still a lot of uncertainty about 2/5 of the starting OL as well as the depth.

So for you to be making definitive statements about improvement over last year seems premature. That will probably (hopefully) be true once all is said and done... but not yet.

Maybe I'm just scarred by the past 15 years...

Man, I guess I underestimated just how jaded you guys are. :lol:

Again, no one is saying that their line is top notch but I don't see how anyone objectively wouldn't say that it's vastly improved on paper. They "lost" those starters on purpose because they were beyond terrible. Of course they are going to add more players, but it's hard to imagine it even being possible that their replacements would be any worse than those guys last year.

They have made major upgrades at C and one guard position (let's call it LG), and assuming Bulaga isn't injured all year again RT should be much better as well. Even if LT and RG aren't upgrades over last year, the unit as a whole should be much improved. I don't really view it so much as uncertainty since it's almost impossible for those spots to be downgrades over last year, so there's a real chance they upgrade at every position on the line. Seemingly every day there are decent linemen being cut/traded for cheap due to cap issues (which I've pointed out gives the Chargers an advantage over most of the league).

Remember, this was brought up in context of the draft. IMO the signings of Linsley and Feiler have given them the flexibility to not HAVE to force one in the 1st round, although as I said I still think it would make the most sense as it looks like there will be good options available partly due to the QB rush.

Their work on the line isn't done, but they've made a LOT of progress. Even if they fill out the rest of their unit with nothing but warm bodies they will go into the season with a much improved line over last year considering that's pretty much all they had at all 5 spots last year.

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On 3/19/2021 at 10:09 AM, humpback said:

Man, I guess I underestimated just how jaded you guys are. :lol:

From 2004-2009, no franchise won more regular season games than the Chargers, and they never sniffed the Super Bowl. The next year they had the #1 offense and the #1 defense in the league, and missed the playoffs entirely.

Our jadedness is well-earned.

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14 minutes ago, Despyzer said:

From 2004-2009, no franchise won more regular season games than the Chargers, and they never sniffed the Super Bowl. The next year they had the #1 offense and the #1 defense in the league, and missed the playoffs entirely.

Our jadedness is well-earned.

I'm sure it is, but it's okay to admit that their line looks much better at the moment.

Just signed the 26th rated guard last year for $1.75 mil as well. Not saying to spike the football, but things are looking up for sure.

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I would say they really only needed to upgrade four of the five OL spots. (Bulaga will do at RT.)

They've now upgraded three spots -- one quite significantly, and two pretty decently.

They need a left tackle. They can get one with the 13th pick. That would give them the best OL they've had since, I don't know, the early eighties?

Until they all get hurt.

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Posted (edited)

Stephen Anderson TE resigned - I guess that pretty much sets the TE pool.

Sam Tevi LT goes to the Colts. It appears to me they have to make a move here to fill the LT spot, either through the draft or FA - I don't think they have an adequate LT on the roster right now. Any decent LTs left in the FA pool?

Edited by Gr00vus
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  • Gr00vus changed the title to *** Official Chargers 2021 Thread - Yes, We Have No Left Tackles ***

It would be great if they could sign a veteran free agent if there is a good one still available, to enable them to go BPA in the first round, likely corner or edge. They have the cap space to pay for a veteran LT. But I'm guessing they are going LT in the first round.

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So far, I like these moves:

  • Releasing RG Trai Turner and CB Hayward -- I would have been fine either way on Hayward, but I trust this as the right move based on Staley's defensive reputation
  • Not releasing CB Harris or DT Joseph, two other rumored possible cap casualties
  • Not re-signing Edge Ingram (assuming this does not happen) -- I wouldn't mind having him, but assume his price will be too high
  • Not re-signing C Feeney, T Tevi, G Toner, G Lamp (yet), S Jenkins, LB Perryman, LB Vigil, LB Jefferson, DE Rochell -- IMO these players are all poor performers or replaceable JAGs
  • Signing C Linsley, LG Feiler, and RG Aboushi -- appears to be a significant upgrade for OL
  • Re-signing CB Davis, TE Anderson, CB Facyson -- Davis was a must and the other two are solid depth players
  • Re-signing PK Badgley, and P Long -- assuming they will be fighting for their roster spots and will have to earn them

So far, I dislike these moves:

  • Not re-signing Henry -- he is in a completely different category than the rest of the guys the team let walk and could have been a good long term target for Herbert, which we know Cook is not
    • I hope this is because the team has good reason to believe that Parham is a year away from being able to be a legit TE1... but I'm skeptical
  • Keeping Mike Williams at $15.7M -- he's not even close to being worth that much; he is not even a top 25 WR who will get paid like a top 10 WR this season
    • I may like this better if the team signs him to a multi-year contract, depending on the terms
  • Combining these two items:
    • Cook and Williams are going to take up more than $20M in cap space in 2021 as things stand right now
    • I would much rather have Henry with his current contract and another veteran WR as a Williams replacement
    • Henry's cap hit would have been lower in 2021, so they could have easily spent $10M+ on a veteran free agent WR to replace Williams and come out ahead on the cap space, and had better players at both TE1 and WR2
Edited by Just Win Baby
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Signed Kyle Fackrell OLB, terms unknown. I guess depth behind/with Nwosu? Hoping this isn't the extent to which they'll address edge rushers...

In regard to the above,  I was very surprised they kept Williams at this price.

I don't know how I feel Henry vs. Williams in a choose one. Honestly, Henry has been kind of underwhelming in regard to the ability he seems to have compared to his actual production, and I don't know why it's turned out that way. Just based on stats I think Williams has had a slight edge on Henry the last 3 years (Henry with more targets and receptions, Williams with more yards). I figured they'd both be gone. Maybe they just didn't want to disrupt things that much this year for Herbert and didn't want to commit beyond that, sticking with Williams for 1 more year instead of giving a multi year deal to Henry. :shrug:

I'm not sure how the comparison above is calculated money wise - is the assumption that Henry would have been brought back to the Chargers on a significantly different contract than what he got from the Patriots, which has a $25M cap hit this year as I understand it? Because if the choice was Williams for 1 year at $15.7M vs. Henry for 3 years and a $25M cap number this year, I'd go with Williams.

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2 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

In regard to the above,  I was very surprised they kept Williams at this price.

I don't know how I feel Henry vs. Williams in a choose one. Honestly, Henry has been kind of underwhelming in regard to the ability he seems to have compared to his actual production, and I don't know why it's turned out that way. Just based on stats I think Williams has had a slight edge on Henry the last 3 years (Henry with more targets and receptions, Williams with more yards). I figured they'd both be gone. Maybe they just didn't want to disrupt things that much this year for Herbert and didn't want to commit beyond that, sticking with Williams for 1 more year instead of giving a multi year deal to Henry. :shrug:

I'm not sure how the comparison above is calculated money wise - is the assumption that Henry would have been brought back to the Chargers on a significantly different contract than what he got from the Patriots, which has a $25M cap hit this year as I understand it? Because if the choice was Williams for 1 year at $15.7M vs. Henry for 3 years and a $25M cap number this year, I'd go with Williams.

Henry's cap hits:

  • 2021 - $6.875M (salary guaranteed)
  • 2022 - $15M (salary guaranteed)
  • 2023 - $15.5M (or can be released with $5M dead cap)

Not sure where you got a $25M cap hit this year. $25M of his contract is guaranteed, but that is his signing bonus ($15M) and 2021-2022 salary ($1M + $9M), so maybe you confused it with that. Regardless, your concluding comparison is off base.

(ETA: Come on, man, you should know by now that I would not be supportive of a $25M cap hit for Henry in any season, much less the down salary cap season.)

Your comparison of Williams to Henry seems to be solely based on receiving, but Henry did a fair amount of blocking as well (325 run blocking snaps and 78 pass blocking snaps in 2020). His PFF run blocking grade in 2020 ranked #17 among TEs with at least 100 run blocking snaps; Cook's was #54, as a point of comparison.

And imagine if he didn't have to hang in for 78 pass blocking snaps... he would have run more routes and would have presumably had more receiving production. So I don't think the comparison of Henry to Williams is on point. Just think about what Henry would have done in 2021, with what appears to be a (significantly?) upgraded OL... he would have been free to run more routes than he has in any season to date.

(Note: Mike Williams is a good run blocker and also had a good run blocking grade in 2020... but a lower grade than Henry on fewer run blocking snaps, and I would argue TE blocking is more impactful than WR blocking.)

Edited by Just Win Baby
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You're right about the cap hit thing. I was looking at Henry's guaranteed money. My mistake. That changes things.

Like I said, I figured they'd let both of them go. Maybe they didn't want to commit to the extra 2 years with Henry. Or maybe the new coaching regime will be de-emphasizing TE in the receiving plans, or they think Parham can provide equivalent production there (I can't believe they think Cook will). Or maybe they think they can arrange a more cap friendly extension with Williams.

Given it's the Chargers, the least logical rationale will probably end up being the one they went with.

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57 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

You're right about the cap hit thing. I was looking at Henry's guaranteed money. My mistake. That changes things.

Like I said, I figured they'd let both of them go. Maybe they didn't want to commit to the extra 2 years with Henry. Or maybe the new coaching regime will be de-emphasizing TE in the receiving plans, or they think Parham can provide equivalent production there (I can't believe they think Cook will). Or maybe they think they can arrange a more cap friendly extension with Williams.

Given it's the Chargers, the least logical rationale will probably end up being the one they went with.

Yeah, I'm not so down on the Henry decision as I am on the Williams decision. IMO they would be better off with Henry than Cook, especially given that Henry's cap number this season will be at most ~$2.3M higher than Cook's.

Regardless, IMO they absolutely should not be paying Williams what they are set to pay him this season. I think it is GM malpractice.

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5 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Williams could be significantly better over the next four years than he was over the last four. But $15 million is a lot for one season. I wonder what he would have gotten on the open market.

His cap hit in 2021 is currently #10 among all WRs. These are the guys above him: Julio, Cooper, Adams, Robinson, Evans, Godwin, Hill, Beckham, Allen. Williams is not in that class.

It is the #3 cap hit on the Chargers, behind only Bosa and Allen. It's crazy.

On the open market, I can't imagine he would have come close to a contract worth $15.7M per year.

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On 3/24/2021 at 11:39 PM, Just Win Baby said:

Yeah, I'm not so down on the Henry decision as I am on the Williams decision. IMO they would be better off with Henry than Cook, especially given that Henry's cap number this season will be at most ~$2.3M higher than Cook's.

Regardless, IMO they absolutely should not be paying Williams what they are set to pay him this season. I think it is GM malpractice.

It's not just about the cap hit this year- when you structure the contract to lower the cap hit this year it just pushes it out into the future (Henry is set to count $15 mil+ the next two years, for example).

Malpractice is way hyperbolic.

15 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

His cap hit in 2021 is currently #10 among all WRs. These are the guys above him: Julio, Cooper, Adams, Robinson, Evans, Godwin, Hill, Beckham, Allen. Williams is not in that class.

It is the #3 cap hit on the Chargers, behind only Bosa and Allen. It's crazy.

On the open market, I can't imagine he would have come close to a contract worth $15.7M per year.

Obviously it would have been better for them if it could have been $10 or 12 mil, but it's a bit of a tricky situation. He's a pretty good WR who has shown flashes of being special but he's also been inconsistent and dealt with injuries. Keeping him for another year, even at an inflated price, gives them options. They can see how he does in the new system and with another year with Herbert without having to commit a lot of future cap dollars to him. Besides, who would they have gotten to replace him, and at what cost? Golladay just signed for $18 mil per for 4 years, I think you're vastly underestimating what he would have gotten on the open market.

IMO the Chargers have had one of the best off seasons in the league so far, and they are STILL in a better position cap wise than most other teams. I know it makes you uncomfortable, but as an outsider, IMO there are far more reasons to be optimistic than pessimistic right now. A few million extra dollars for Williams this year (which is already accounted for in their much better than most cap position) shouldn't change that.

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3 hours ago, humpback said:
On 3/24/2021 at 11:39 PM, Just Win Baby said:

Yeah, I'm not so down on the Henry decision as I am on the Williams decision. IMO they would be better off with Henry than Cook, especially given that Henry's cap number this season will be at most ~$2.3M higher than Cook's.

Regardless, IMO they absolutely should not be paying Williams what they are set to pay him this season. I think it is GM malpractice.

It's not just about the cap hit this year- when you structure the contract to lower the cap hit this year it just pushes it out into the future (Henry is set to count $15 mil+ the next two years, for example).

Of course. But the 2022 cap will likely be $25M+ higher, and the 2023 cap will likely be another $5-10M higher than that. Post COVID and new TV contracts.

So this year matters a lot more IMO than 2022-2023, especially since I was talking about Henry and Williams, and Williams is only under contract for 2021.

The Chargers don't have a TE1 at this point beyond 2021, so who knows what they will end up expending on the position in terms of cap space and draft capital. I think it will turn out that Henry would have been a better investment, even at the same contract he got from the Patriots.

3 hours ago, humpback said:
19 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

His cap hit in 2021 is currently #10 among all WRs. These are the guys above him: Julio, Cooper, Adams, Robinson, Evans, Godwin, Hill, Beckham, Allen. Williams is not in that class.

It is the #3 cap hit on the Chargers, behind only Bosa and Allen. It's crazy.

On the open market, I can't imagine he would have come close to a contract worth $15.7M per year.

Obviously it would have been better for them if it could have been $10 or 12 mil, but it's a bit of a tricky situation. He's a pretty good WR who has shown flashes of being special but he's also been inconsistent and dealt with injuries. Keeping him for another year, even at an inflated price, gives them options. They can see how he does in the new system and with another year with Herbert without having to commit a lot of future cap dollars to him. Besides, who would they have gotten to replace him, and at what cost? Golladay just signed for $18 mil per for 4 years, I think you're vastly underestimating what he would have gotten on the open market.

Bottom line - nothing Williams has ever done in his career makes him worth his salary this season. To be worth it, he will have to have a career year by a large margin. I hope he does it, but I think the odds of that are exceedingly low.

This is an unfortunate outcome of overdrafting a player, as the Chargers did by drafting Williams at #7. He hasn't been worth his draft position, which means by definition he hasn't been worth his 5th year option price, unless his performance in 2021 improves dramatically.

3 hours ago, humpback said:

IMO the Chargers have had one of the best off seasons in the league so far, and they are STILL in a better position cap wise than most other teams. I know it makes you uncomfortable, but as an outsider, IMO there are far more reasons to be optimistic than pessimistic right now. A few million extra dollars for Williams this year (which is already accounted for in their much better than most cap position) shouldn't change that.

I think my take earlier was positive overall. I like most of their decisions so far, as I posted. I also linked an optimistic fan post I posted at BFTB. Both things can be true -- good offseason that includes some bad decisions.

The true answer on how good their offseason was won't be known until we see enough of a body of work from the new coaching staff to know if Staley was a good or bad hire. They haven't made a good head coaching hire since 2002, but I'm cautiously opimistic that Staley will break the trend.

Edited by Just Win Baby
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3 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

Of course. But the 2022 cap will likely be $25M+ higher, and the 2023 cap will likely be another $5-10M higher than that. Post COVID and new TV contracts.

So this year matters a lot more IMO than 2022-2023, especially since I was talking about Henry and Williams, and Williams is only under contract for 2021.

The Chargers don't have a TE1 at this point beyond 2021, so who knows what they will end up expending on the position in terms of cap space and draft capital. I think it will turn out that Henry would have been a better investment, even at the same contract he got from the Patriots.

Bottom line - nothing Williams has ever done in his career makes him worth his salary this season. To be worth it, he will have to have a career year by a large margin. I hope he does it, but I think the odds of that are exceedingly low.

This is an unfortunate outcome of overdrafting a player, as the Chargers did by drafting Williams at #7. He hasn't been worth his draft position, which means by definition he hasn't been worth his 5th year option price, unless his performance in 2021 improves dramatically.

I think my take earlier was positive overall. I like most of their decisions so far, as I posted. I also linked an optimistic fan post I posted at BFTB. Both things can be true -- good offseason that includes some bad decisions.

The true answer on how good their offseason was won't be known until we see enough of a body of work from the new coaching staff to know if Staley was a good or bad hire. They haven't made a good head coaching hire since 2002, but I'm cautiously opimistic that Staley will break the trend.

Yup, which means the Chargers will have even MORE cap space in the future by not committing a ton of it to a TE who quite frankly hasn't been great nor healthy. It's not certain that they don't have a TE1 on the roster, will see if Parham makes a leap or if they pick up someone in the draft, but I think the odds of Henry being a better investment at those numbers than whoever they end up with are pretty low IMO.

What has Golladay done to make him worth his higher salary for the next 4 years? They're almost identical, seems the going rate is higher than you think.

You're way too caught up on the past, draft position, etc.- those are sunk costs. The bottom line is the Chargers have to decide what is best for them right now and in the future, and keeping Mike Williams at his modestly inflated 1 year cap hit makes sense IMO. What are the alternatives? If they cut him, who are they going to replace him with, and at what cost? If they extend him, they'd lower this year's number but then be committed to a lot more in the future. Asking him to take a pay cut for this year isn't realistic, there's no reason he'd do that.

They still have more money available than most of the league, so they have the flexibility to use a little more than Williams is "worth" to give them flexibility to see how he does this year and determine if they want him to be part of the team long term. What would you have liked them to have done instead?

 

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28 minutes ago, humpback said:

Yup, which means the Chargers will have even MORE cap space in the future by not committing a ton of it to a TE who quite frankly hasn't been great nor healthy. It's not certain that they don't have a TE1 on the roster, will see if Parham makes a leap or if they pick up someone in the draft, but I think the odds of Henry being a better investment at those numbers than whoever they end up with are pretty low IMO.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this.

28 minutes ago, humpback said:

What has Golladay done to make him worth his higher salary for the next 4 years? They're almost identical, seems the going rate is higher than you think.

First off, I never said I think Golladay is worth it. Just because one team is willing to commit to a bad WR contract doesn't mean another team should be willing to do the same. 

Also, Golladay has been better than Williams in their careers to date:

  • More targets, receptions, yards, TDs, and first downs, despite playing in 9 fewer games with 7 fewer starts.
  • Higher catch percentage, YPR, and YPT, though they are close, and has averaged 45% more receiving yards per game.
  • Higher PFF grades overall, receiving, and run blocking in every season
37 minutes ago, humpback said:

You're way too caught up on the past, draft position, etc.- those are sunk costs.

Completely disagree. I understand and agree those are sunk costs. Never said otherwise. Pointing out that they overdrafted him is not "caught up in the past," it is an explanation for why his 5th year salary is inflated to a level that isn't worth it.

38 minutes ago, humpback said:

keeping Mike Williams at his modestly inflated 1 year cap hit makes sense IMO. What are the alternatives? If they cut him, who are they going to replace him with, and at what cost? If they extend him, they'd lower this year's number but then be committed to a lot more in the future.

Possible alternatives that were available until his 2021 contract became guaranteed:

  1. Trade for a comparable vet at a lower price
  2. Release Williams and sign a comparable vet at a lower price
  3. Release Williams and draft a promising rookie
  4. Sign Williams to a multi-year extension.

Keep in mind - again - this tangent started when you replied to my comment that IMO the combination of Henry + a Williams replacement would have been cheaper and likely better than Cook + Williams. Henry is better than Cook, so the Williams replacement doesn't have to be better than Williams to make that a net positive exchange.

43 minutes ago, humpback said:

They still have more money available than most of the league, so they have the flexibility to use a little more than Williams is "worth" to give them flexibility to see how he does this year and determine if they want him to be part of the team long term. What would you have liked them to have done instead?

I think I have made it pretty clear, that I would prefer they had chosen one of the four options above instead of the path they chose.

Look, it's pretty clear that you and I will not agree on this. I'm fine moving on.

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30 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this.

First off, I never said I think Golladay is worth it. Just because one team is willing to commit to a bad WR contract doesn't mean another team should be willing to do the same. 

Also, Golladay has been better than Williams in their careers to date:

  • More targets, receptions, yards, TDs, and first downs, despite playing in 9 fewer games with 7 fewer starts.
  • Higher catch percentage, YPR, and YPT, though they are close, and has averaged 45% more receiving yards per game.
  • Higher PFF grades overall, receiving, and run blocking in every season

Completely disagree. I understand and agree those are sunk costs. Never said otherwise. Pointing out that they overdrafted him is not "caught up in the past," it is an explanation for why his 5th year salary is inflated to a level that isn't worth it.

Possible alternatives that were available until his 2021 contract became guaranteed:

  1. Trade for a comparable vet at a lower price
  2. Release Williams and sign a comparable vet at a lower price
  3. Release Williams and draft a promising rookie
  4. Sign Williams to a multi-year extension.

Keep in mind - again - this tangent started when you replied to my comment that IMO the combination of Henry + a Williams replacement would have been cheaper and likely better than Cook + Williams. Henry is better than Cook, so the Williams replacement doesn't have to be better than Williams to make that a net positive exchange.

I think I have made it pretty clear, that I would prefer they had chosen one of the four options above instead of the path they chose.

Look, it's pretty clear that you and I will not agree on this. I'm fine moving on.

:goodposting:

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