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🦅Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread🦅 Andre Dillard's camp is putting him on a path to be the new IHOP mascot


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9 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

He's a good fantasy QB and that's all most on this board (except perhaps Ravens fans) care about.

I 100% agree on that and actually made a post a week or so back in some thread around here that Hurts was a better fantasy QB his rookie season then Lamar was in his rookie season.

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9 minutes ago, ProstheticRGK said:

I'm just frustrated with the way Howie handled this whole mess, And, it looks like he is untouchable for some reason, because Lurie always has his back. Even after the mistake of a contract Howie dealt Wentz and the horrible season Wentz had, the Eagles should have been in a position to roll the dice on Wentz returning to form. And reportedly, Howie was the big reason Wentz wanted to be gone. 

Yep and he can’t be trusted to make a pick so the potential for this to be just a salary dunk is still there. That’s what I hate the most. If we had good drafts I’d have some hope but this 3rd round picks will more than likely be cut after 2-3 years

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6 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Carson Wentz will be 29 this season, Lamar Jackson is only 23.  In fact, Jackson is younger than Wentz was his rookie season.  Not even the same ballpark in development.

I was talking about Hurts, not Wentz.

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8 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Meh.  Wentz was statistically worse across the board to Jalen Hurts last year with the same exact team.  His decision-making was horrendous.  He held onto the ball way too long which led to a lot of those sacks.  Over the years his accumulated injuries have turned him into a shell of his 2017 self.  He's lost a lot of the escapability he had.  I wish him the best, maybe Frank Reich can fix him, but he's physically (and maybe mentally) not the same player he used to be.   

The articles I read that broke down the stats pointed out that people used line as scapegoat for wentz horrendous play but not all of the pressures and sacks were on the O Line.  Throw in that wentz threw the most uncatchable ball of eligible qbs- there is way more than “give him an o line and he will be fine” that needs to happen.

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8 minutes ago, ProstheticRGK said:

I agree with you, too. This deal is way more in line with his performance from last year. His contract won't even be that bad, from the Colts' perspective. What does it make him, the 15th to 19th highest paid QB?  (I read that somewhere, could be way off). The whole media crapstorm of rumors, especially the Bears offering a 1st, set expectations too high for the fans. 

I'm just frustrated with the way Howie handled this whole mess, And, it looks like he is untouchable for some reason, because Lurie always has his back. Even after the mistake of a contract Howie dealt Wentz and the horrible season Wentz had, the Eagles should have been in a position to roll the dice on Wentz returning to form. And reportedly, Howie was the big reason Wentz wanted to be gone. 

His contract is going to depend on how he does- if he plays like he did last year, it'll be awful for the Colts. If it's more like 2017, it'll be a steal. More than likely it'll be somewhere in the middle and relatively fair.

I get it, and maybe it's easier for me since I'm not a Philly fan, but that's really a separate issue. Looking at this deal right now for this specific situation, he did pretty damn well. The fact that he screwed up before or may screw up the picks certainly should factor into your overall opinion, but not on this specific deal.

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3 minutes ago, Balco said:

The articles I read that broke down the stats pointed out that people used line as scapegoat for wentz horrendous play but not all of the pressures and sacks were on the O Line.  Throw in that wentz threw the most uncatchable ball of eligible qbs- there is way more than “give him an o line and he will be fine” that needs to happen.

It doesn't hurt to have a good OL.  Didn't Wentz have an MVP worthy season not too long ago?

Edited by JohnnyU
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Yes his line was probably the league's worst.

Yes his receivers did him no favors.

But how Wentz can still be air mailing so many passes at this point is really inexcusable.

I remain amazed at how few NFL QBs can actually throw the ball with accuracy.

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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I fully expect the Colts to be a top 3 AFC team next year and compete for the super bowl. They already have the defense and the running game in place. Add in a QB with loads of talent and a coach that knows how to utilize him. 

This is like watching your parents divorce and then seeing how happy the one is in their new life while you're stuck with the other who's left with the kids and the bag of misery. This right here is going to be a tough pill to swallow for decades. 

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

He was actually better than Hurts in most things IIRC. Hurts statistically was absolutely awful in almost every way passing the ball. 

Hurts had a better: QBR, Y/A, AY/A, NY/A, ANY/A, higher TD%, Y/R.  

Wentz was better in categories like Comp%, Int% and Sack%.

Nearly every passing statistic, Hurts was better.  I don't really like Hurts all too much, but Wentz was horrible last season.  

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1 hour ago, Snotbubbles said:

Yeah, I think Wentz's signing ($9.8M) and option bonuses ($24) get accelerated into this year.  After that, we're off the hook for the rest of the contract. 

Which is a big hit, but when you look at our QB on a rookie contract for a 2nd round pick I guess it’s in line with some other teams. 

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

It doesn't hurt to have a good OL.  Didn't Wentz have an MVP worthy season not too long ago?

Yes.  And then he tore his ACL, broke his back and had a concussion.  Injuries adds up.  We saw the same thing with McNabb. 

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

It doesn't hurt to have a good OL.  Didn't Wentz have an MVP worthy season not too long ago?

Of course it helps to have a great O Line - But Wentz was the worst starting QB in the NFL last year by any objective metric. He was horrendous with a clean pocket, no pocket, and out of pocket. The most concerning issue I think is his utter lack of accuracy and from the uncatchable pass percentage - it’s not his receivers.

if anyone can bring him back to serviceable I think it’s Reich. It’s just going to take a ton of work. Eagles did very well in that trade.

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15 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

If Wentz does well for the Colts, and I expect he will, it wasn't a whole lot to give for him.  If that OL can only give up 19 sacks of Wentz, I believe the Colts are going to be satisfied with this trade.  As should the Eagles, because getting a 3rd and if it turns out to be a late 1st, that's a good deal for them too.

Well sure, but that's a big "if". Wentz is broken right now, but going to a much better team, o-line, and coach will fix some of that right off the bat. If they can get him back to 2017 form it'll be a steal, if it's 2020 it'll be bad, so there's both upside and downside- that's what makes it "fair" IMO.

13 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I don’t know that anyone here pegged his value to be more or better than a 1 and 3. Yes it’s a conditional 2 but the likelihood of that becoming a 1 is high. This isn’t as far off and I think most would take a 1 and 3 over two 2’s. 

What makes the deal horrible to most of us is that we don’t trust the guy making the picks. 

The whole reason I started posting in here is because most of you guys were complaining that 2 2nd round picks was terrible value for Wentz and I disagreed. He was just traded for a 3rd and a conditional 2nd that could be a 1st in 2022, which is pretty equal to 2 2nds (could be more, could be less), and most so far are still complaining about the deal.

Again, not trusting the guy making the picks is really a completely separate (but valid) issue. Looking at this trade alone, it was pretty good for the Eagles (and Indy IMO).

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9 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Hurts had a better: QBR, Y/A, AY/A, NY/A, ANY/A, higher TD%, Y/R.  

Wentz was better in categories like Comp%, Int% and Sack%.

Nearly every passing statistic, Hurts was better.  I don't really like Hurts all too much, but Wentz was horrible last season.  

Pretty sure he wasn’t higher in QBR. I’d have to double check but both were statistically awful last year. 

**EDIT**

Wentz did have a better QBR. 

Edited by Bigboy10182000
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10 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

It doesn't hurt to have a good OL.  Didn't Wentz have an MVP worthy season not too long ago?

I think you are right, I like it for you guys. A good OL not to mention actual weapons to throw to compared to the joke of receivers they gave him year after year here. I think he has a very good chance to be a top 1/3 of league QB for you. 

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Wentz was broken last year with the Eagles.   

PHI made out and got what his perceived NFL value was.

 IND got a potentially excellent QB back with a coach he liked and didn't break the bank to do so.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Wentz win Comeback Player of the Year next year.

Indy and Wentz are currently winning this trade.....but it won't be definitive until we see what PHI gets in the draft and what they do in the next year or two with the increased cap space.  

 

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13 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

After seeing the conditions of that, and knowing Wentz has exceeded that number in each of the last 5 years a first round pick seems likely. So a 1 and 3

I would quote Winston Wolfe here, but this is a family message board. After how his career has played out there's nothing that makes me confident (e.g. more than 50/50) we get a 1. He could tear his ACL in training camp, he could continue to stink it up and get benched by Week 6, or he could miss the month of October with a semi-serious injury and the Colts still wind up locked in a playoff spot and rest their starters in Week 17 so he only plays 69% of the snaps and we get a late 2nd rounder.

We sold our souls for SB52 and we're looking at a repeat of those first 51 years!

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6 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I think you are right, I like it for you guys. A good OL not to mention actual weapons to throw to compared to the joke of receivers they gave him year after year here. I think he has a very good chance to be a top 1/3 of league QB for you. 

I still think the Colts need to draft a true #1 WR.  Hilton is just average right now and I particularly don't like small WRs as the alpha.  Tyreek Hill he never was, even in his best years.

ETA:  While I like Parris Campbell and Michael Pittman, I personally view them as good, not great.

Edited by JohnnyU
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4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I still think the Colts need to draft a true #1 WR.  Hilton is just average right now and I particularly don't like small WRs as the alpha.  Tyreek Hill he never was, even in his best years.

ETA:  While I like Parris Campbell and Michael Pittman, I personally view them as good, not great.

The Eagles will give you JJAW for two 1st round picks.

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5 minutes ago, The Noid said:

I would quote Winston Wolfe here, but this is a family message board. After how his career has played out there's nothing that makes me confident (e.g. more than 50/50) we get a 1. He could tear his ACL in training camp, he could continue to stink it up and get benched by Week 6, or he could miss the month of October with a semi-serious injury and the Colts still wind up locked in a playoff spot and rest their starters in Week 17 so he only plays 69% of the snaps and we get a late 2nd rounder.

We sold our souls for SB52 and we're looking at a repeat of those first 51 years!

i was thinking Carson has so much animosity for the Eagles that he sits himself to make sure he hits under the bar. will be funny to see if any shenanigans like this play out

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8 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I still think the Colts need to draft a true #1 WR.  Hilton is just average right now and I particularly don't like small WRs as the alpha.  Tyreek Hill he never was, even in his best years.

ETA:  While I like Parris Campbell and Michael Pittman, I personally view them as good, not great.

Wentz never really passed much to a WR, hope for a top TE instead

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19 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Pretty sure he wasn’t higher in QBR. I’d have to double check but both were statistically awful last year. 

**EDIT**

Wentz did have a better QBR. 

Either way, think about it.  Wentz was in his 5th year in the same system, with the same head coach and getting first team reps over the course of his career.  Hurts was in his first year in the system with, COVID limited offseason, getting second team reps and was AT WORST, statistically equal to Wentz.  Hurts wasn't great, but at least he has room to grow.  What's Wentz's excuse?  

Roseman should identify the top QB available in the next two drafts (sans Lawrence since he probably has zero chance to get him) and position this team to be able to select that player.  The Birds are going to be bad next year.  They still have major salary cuts to make.  

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2 hours ago, modogg said:

Man all of the news is flying out now it seems. Sounds like the only team alive in the trade talks was the Colts. Bears backed out and didn't want him, and no other QB needy team wanted to try Carson. 

I wonder if other teams felt that the 2020 Carson is the real Carson at this point with no one wanting the kid. 

Bears withdrew their offer because Wentz didn’t want to be coached again by Defillipo because he was too “hard” on him. 

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I also agree that although he wasn’t lights out, not sure that Hurts should be pushed aside (unless the Eagles believe a QB in this draft is a bonafide franchise talent - you cannot pass one up if that is the case)

I think Herbert’s season is kind of making people forget that QB isn’t a plug a rookie in and it will all work out type of deal. There are going to be bumps, especially when there are no pre-season reps to be had.

Hurts looked good at times and lost at times. It’s up to Eagles brass to determine whether they believe experience will help or he is more of a backup. Getting all first team reps in preseason and having offense tailored to his strengths should help.

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28 minutes ago, modogg said:

i was thinking Carson has so much animosity for the Eagles that he sits himself to make sure he hits under the bar. will be funny to see if any shenanigans like this play out

Best way for Carson to stick it to the Eagles would be playing a full season back at a top 5-8 level IMO.  

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1 hour ago, humpback said:

His contract is going to depend on how he does- if he plays like he did last year, it'll be awful for the Colts. If it's more like 2017, it'll be a steal. More than likely it'll be somewhere in the middle and relatively fair.

I get it, and maybe it's easier for me since I'm not a Philly fan, but that's really a separate issue. Looking at this deal right now for this specific situation, he did pretty damn well. The fact that he screwed up before or may screw up the picks certainly should factor into your overall opinion, but not on this specific deal.

2017 wentz is never coming back

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42 minutes ago, modogg said:

i was thinking Carson has so much animosity for the Eagles that he sits himself to make sure he hits under the bar. will be funny to see if any shenanigans like this play out

You can't really believe this?

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Meanwhile, there's a sizable amount of Browns fans shouting from the top of their lungs today that this proves they won the 2016 #2/Wentz trade. 

Um, what?? The got 0 players directly from the trade that had any impact on the team, and indirectly (via many other convoluted trades and pick swaps) they wound up with Denzel Ward and OBJ while trading away the Deshaun Watson pick. And everyone behind that trade has since been fired.

The Eagles got 2017/SB52 and whatever we get from the Indy picks. 

:crazy:

 

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🤷🏽‍♂️ I feel a LOT better about this than I would have if Stafford went to Indy. 

But Wentz can still be good.  Behind the Indy line, with Taylor and a better WRs, this could be really good for Indy.

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13 minutes ago, The Noid said:

Meanwhile, there's a sizable amount of Browns fans shouting from the top of their lungs today that this proves they won the 2016 #2/Wentz trade. 

Um, what?? The got 0 players directly from the trade that had any impact on the team, and indirectly (via many other convoluted trades and pick swaps) they wound up with Denzel Ward and OBJ while trading away the Deshaun Watson pick. And everyone behind that trade has since been fired.

The Eagles got 2017/SB52 and whatever we get from the Indy picks. 

:crazy:

 

I agree mostly with your take, but Wentz didn't do anything in SB52. (You could argue they wouldn't have made the playoffs without Wentz, I'm not sure really)

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

He's a good fantasy QB and that's all most on this board (except perhaps Ravens fans) care about.

🤣 So far your arguments for Hurts have been false equivalence and goal post shifting.

I’ve got nothing against him, he seems like a solid guy, just don’t think he’s better than a below average starter.

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19 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

You have got to be kidding 

 

18 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

You can't really believe this?

nope, don't think he does this or the Colts let him do this. but if he does get close to the % playing in, i would be interested to see if the Colts do adjust his playing time in week 17 to meet the criteria for a lower draft pick

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3 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

🤷🏽‍♂️ I feel a LOT better about this than I would have if Stafford went to Indy. 

But Wentz can still be good.  Behind the Indy line, with Taylor and a better WRs, this could be really good for Indy.

Seeing what happens from here with Wentz will be fascinating.  Unless he gets hurt again, or plays badly enough to be benched, the pick in 2022 will be a 1st.

If he does play badly and get benched, then the Colts gave up too much.  If not, we get a 1st next year, which I think is fair compensation.

The only way the this really turns bad for the Eagles is if Wentz misses 5 games with an injury but goes on to have a fantastic career afterwards.

I’m really interested to see if Wentz mechanical issues improve.  Seems like either Taylor couldn’t teach him in that area, or Wentz wouldn’t listen.

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1 minute ago, Ash said:

Seeing what happens from here with Wentz will be fascinating.  Unless he gets hurt again, or plays badly enough to be benched, the pick in 2022 will be a 1st.

If he does play badly and get benched, then the Colts gave up too much.  If not, we get a 1st next year, which I think is fair compensation.

The only way the this really turns bad for the Eagles is if Wentz misses 5 games with an injury but goes on to have a fantastic career afterwards.

I’m really interested to see if Wentz mechanical issues improve.  Seems like either Taylor couldn’t teach him in that area, or Wentz wouldn’t listen.

and the Colts promoted Press Taylor, which made it seem kind of obvious that Carson would end up there. will be just as interesting to see if Press Taylor can actually be a legit coach, or if the rumors about him being a horrible coach comes true

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2 minutes ago, Ash said:

Seeing what happens from here with Wentz will be fascinating.  Unless he gets hurt again, or plays badly enough to be benched, the pick in 2022 will be a 1st.

If he does play badly and get benched, then the Colts gave up too much.  If not, we get a 1st next year, which I think is fair compensation.

The only way the this really turns bad for the Eagles is if Wentz misses 5 games with an injury but goes on to have a fantastic career afterwards.

I’m really interested to see if Wentz mechanical issues improve.  Seems like either Taylor couldn’t teach him in that area, or Wentz wouldn’t listen.

I'd trust Reich to know what he's doing here. 

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1 hour ago, The Noid said:

I would quote Winston Wolfe here, but this is a family message board. After how his career has played out there's nothing that makes me confident (e.g. more than 50/50) we get a 1. He could tear his ACL in training camp, he could continue to stink it up and get benched by Week 6, or he could miss the month of October with a semi-serious injury and the Colts still wind up locked in a playoff spot and rest their starters in Week 17 so he only plays 69% of the snaps and we get a late 2nd rounder.

We sold our souls for SB52 and we're looking at a repeat of those first 51 years!


Sure anything can happen and it seems like we’re a magnet for things not going our way.  He’s been hurt here and still managed to hit those percentages so I feel good about it right now anyway.

 

42 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Either way, think about it.  Wentz was in his 5th year in the same system, with the same head coach and getting first team reps over the course of his career.  Hurts was in his first year in the system with, COVID limited offseason, getting second team reps and was AT WORST, statistically equal to Wentz.  Hurts wasn't great, but at least he has room to grow.  What's Wentz's excuse?  

Roseman should identify the top QB available in the next two drafts (sans Lawrence since he probably has zero chance to get him) and position this team to be able to select that player.  The Birds are going to be bad next year.  They still have major salary cuts to make.  

See it’s not just what’s Wentz’s excuse. Everyone played poorly.

Burrow, Tua and Herbert all dealt with the same things as Hurts and looking at where they were picked they did so on what many would have thought were bad teams. So bad teams, with rookie QB’s starting sooner in a COVID shortened season and they looked light years better than Hurts. And look, Hurts ONLY looked as “good” because there was no tape early and he was fresh enough to run 15-20 times per game. The way he was playing toward the end was on pace to be worse than Wentz or any other QB in the league by a very wide margin. 

This isn’t a Wentz versus Hurts discussion. Both of their excuses are that they played like trash, coaches were awful and the supporting cast has been tending down for 3 years and finally touched down. 

As far as identifying future QB’s, well, Howie did that back in 2016 and said that was his main reason for going up and getting Wentz. He didn’t see anyone coming out who they’d want. The next year was Watson and Mahomes.  The year after Mayfield and Allen. We have a guy who wants to create a QB factory while simultaneously being awful at identifying talented QB’s. Oh, and he might get to pick another one :lmao:

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12 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

🤷🏽‍♂️ I feel a LOT better about this than I would have if Stafford went to Indy. 

But Wentz can still be good.  Behind the Indy line, with Taylor and a better WRs, this could be really good for Indy.

The underrated aspect is the media and environment in general as well. Some players play better or coach better in a more relaxed and not so bipolar atmosphere. We’ve seen that in just about every sport for a long time.

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1 minute ago, Deranged Hermit said:

Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and will be the thing to get Howie fired. 

All the ducks are in a row now. If Wentz does well he’ll be killed weekly. If Hurts plays poorly he’ll be killed and if he passed on a QB who shows he can play he’s killed as well. The problem is that he killed us in the process. No one wins

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11 minutes ago, modogg said:

 

nope, don't think he does this or the Colts let him do this. but if he does get close to the % playing in, i would be interested to see if the Colts do adjust his playing time in week 17 to meet the criteria for a lower draft pick

I don't see this unless the colts are just bad next year. Which I doubt happens.

Wentz might be on a shorter leash than otherwise.

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23 minutes ago, modogg said:

and the Colts promoted Press Taylor, which made it seem kind of obvious that Carson would end up there. will be just as interesting to see if Press Taylor can actually be a legit coach, or if the rumors about him being a horrible coach comes true

At the very least the dynamic between those 2 doesn’t work well, that’s been proven over the last 3 years. Press isn’t QB coach though.

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18 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

All the ducks are in a row now. If Wentz does well he’ll be killed weekly. If Hurts plays poorly he’ll be killed and if he passed on a QB who shows he can play he’s killed as well. The problem is that he killed us in the process. No one wins

This, unfortunately.  

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Unfortunately for Wentz haters, Eagles don't play the Colts until 2022 and it's in Indy. He won't be here until potentially 2026, which he may or may not be good or remembered by then. 

Edited by Insein
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3 hours ago, modogg said:

And I guess Carson got what he wanted. So is the NFL turning into the NBA with players crying and whining to leave and get their way like elementary school kids?

Crazy to think Watson may be stuck in Houston, but Carson did what he could to leave. 

I think with Carson and Watsons situation, we ARE seeing a shift to NBA style where players will get to determine their own landing spots more often.  With 0/22 QBs from 09-16 still on their drafted teams' roster, the era of long term loyalty seems to be down the drain.  NBA happened a decade ago, NFL is catching up now.  If you don't land a guy like Mahomes, you're probably not going to have a "franchise QB" that is with you for 10+ years anymore.

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  • The Noid changed the title to 🦅Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread🦅 Andre Dillard's camp is putting him on a path to be the new IHOP mascot
  • The Noid changed the title to 🦅Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread🦅 Welcome to Philly, Steven Nelson! CB2 no longer our biggest weakness.

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