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2 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

At this stage I have no interest in the same cookie cutter mocks anyway. They’re all the same now and it’s always “OMG THIS SUCKS” even if it deviates a little bit. 

My issue is some of them the picks make absolutely zero sense. One mock had Kyle Pitts dropping to the Patriots. Another draft had a guy dropping to the 2nd round to someone. Some of these mocks aren't realistic and you can tell there's an agenda and them rooting for certain teams to have certain players. I use to only pay attention to Mayock as he had one mock and that was the night before the draft. I just use the mocks to see where certain people have certain guys valued though anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Insein said:

I don't remember a single mock draft last year that had us taking Jalen Hurts in the second round. 

Thats because most had him as a day 3 pick in the 5th round or later. Most scouting reports had project QB if he has success in the NFL he's gonna have to a team build talent around him. Some scouts still even said he was better off switching positions entirely. 

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49 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I had no idea who he was if I’m being honest and was shocked to see him so high. With that said, he didn’t just toss his name out there and gave details why. I’m good with that. 

He's not that good. He's pretty bad and was hard to watch. 

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43 minutes ago, Deamon said:

Ya but it still smells of "look at me and my crazy pick, look how many people are talking about me now".

I get deviating from the mocks, but when every scout doesn't even have him in the first two rounds, putting him that high is dumb.

yep thats why I pay no attention to it. Simms Is just a former player who couldn't live up to his name

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Steelers won't franchise any of their players: 

Kenny Golladay is becoming an FA as well as Chris Carsons

TB is FT Chris Godwin Shaq Barrett and Lavante Davis will become FA's though TB has had discussions with them

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

Ya but it still smells of "look at me and my crazy pick, look how many people are talking about me now".

I get deviating from the mocks, but when every scout doesn't even have him in the first two rounds, putting him that high is dumb.

It only feels that way because it’s different. If you look at his top QB’s and think he only likes 2 as first round guys and the rest after than it makes perfect sense. It’s only discussed now because it disagrees with the 383,938,134 mocks that we all know are gonna end up wrong anyway. 

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

It only feels that way because it’s different. If you look at his top QB’s and think he only likes 2 as first round guys and the rest after than it makes perfect sense. It’s only discussed now because it disagrees with the 383,938,134 mocks that we all know are gonna end up wrong anyway. 

I don't think it looks that way because it's different.  This is a guy that isn't even going in the first 2 days of the draft.  Who are career QB's taken that late?  The list is very short and I don't think he has the talent at all to be the next Brady.

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41 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

It only feels that way because it’s different. If you look at his top QB’s and think he only likes 2 as first round guys and the rest after than it makes perfect sense. It’s only discussed now because it disagrees with the 383,938,134 mocks that we all know are gonna end up wrong anyway. 

Mond isn't that good at all. The fact he has him over Trask and Mac Jones is 3rd despite the fact both Trask and Jones played at a high level very similar isn't there is pretty bad. Especially when Trask and Jones are far more talented and even outplayed Mond who is in their conference as well. I'm not super high on Lance but I'd take him over Mond and even Fields. 

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A Statistical Look at Draft Value

Over the last couple of days I've been looking at comparing on field production to draft value, and I've come up with some interesting numbers I think.

I used data from Pro Football Reference to for the five years between 2014 and 2018 to examine the relationship between draft position and their Career Approximate Value metric. No metric is perfect, but this one generally seems to hold, and it has the benefit of being used across all positions.  Stopping at 2018 allows a fair assessment of players drafted in that year, since they have had the opportunity for 3 years of production.

Couldn't get the table to post in a readable way, so here's the link

I split the data across positions, and across early (1-3) and late (4+) rounds.  What I'm trying to do by that is identify how much production varies across early and late round players at different positions, and use the correlation number to identify how predictably a player produces on the field relative to draft position.

In statistics, a correlation coefficient will vary between 1 and -1, with this data, if production were perfectly predictable (ie players drafted higher will always be better), the coefficient would be -1, meaning that a lower draft position number (#1 overall, vs #150 in the 4th round) will always have a higher CareerAV number.  The stronger that correlation number, the more value is skewed towards high draft picks, the the inverse also true.

Some predictable results (to me at least):

  1. QB production is highly predictable.  There is a huge difference between the CareerAV of early and late round players and the correlation between draft position and production is the strongest of any position.
  2. OT production is also highly predictable.  Early round players produce, late round players here generally don't.  Slightly interesting that from the 4th round on, production is random. Most will not produce, but a guy in the 7th is just as likely to work out as anyone.
  3. Interior OL production has the weakest relationship between draft position and production.  This makes the position poor value early and good value late.  Production is also random from R4 onwards.  Even isolating players taken within the first 3 rounds, the correlation between draft position and production is not strong, meaning earlier picks in this position are riskier than at other positions.

Some surprising results:

  1. RB production is relatively predictable.  The data says that the NFL is generally effective in splitting players to draft early vs. late, but within R1-3 the correlation is moderate.  So, 2nd / 3rd round picks are good value.
  2. The split in production between early and late round WRs is huge.  Pick your WRs early, but within those early rounds, production is not strongly predictable.  So, the same as RBs, draft your WRs in the 2nd and 3rd.    
  3. TE production is somewhat predictable, but in TEs drafted in the early rounds, production isn't all that predictable.  This is another position where you get get production drafting in early rounds,  but within that, the later the better for value.
  4. LB production is more predictable than average, and there is a solid difference in production between early and late round drafted players.
  5. All DL players have among the lower difference in production between early and late rounds.  I expected this to be true for DT, but not DE.  Production is more predictable for DE but value can be had in later rounds at both positions. 
  6. CB production is only moderately predictable and there is less difference between early / late round production than at most positions.  I expected the opposite to be true.
  7. S production is generally predictable, and is predictable even within players drafted in early rounds.  In other words, don't be shy about drafting S early.

Some overall conclusions I'm taking from this (ignoring position value in scheme etc):

  1. Players projected early at QB, OT, S are generally most likely to produce.
  2. There's a heap of value and flexibility in R2-3, with WR, RB, TE, LB, S picked here, generally likely to produce.
  3. Stop taking late round flyers on WR.
  4. Instead, spend those later round picks on DL and Interior OL
  5. In the later round pool, RB, LB, TE are better to take in R4 than R7, within the pool of later round players, production is still fairly predictable.

While I believe in these results, I also think than in looking at players who have the chance to be truly elite, exceptions should be made.

Flame away!

Edited by Ash
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20 minutes ago, Ash said:

A Statistical Look at Draft Value

Over the last couple of days I've been looking at comparing on field production to draft value, and I've come up with some interesting numbers I think.

I used data from Pro Football Reference to for the five years between 2014 and 2018 to examine the relationship between draft position and their Career Approximate Value metric. No metric is perfect, but this one generally seems to hold, and it has the benefit of being used across all positions.  Stopping at 2018 allows a fair assessment of players drafted in that year, since they have had the opportunity for 3 years of production.

Couldn't get the table to post in a readable way, so here's the link

I split the data across positions, and across early (1-3) and late (4+) rounds.  What I'm trying to do by that is identify how much production varies across early and late round players at different positions, and use the correlation number to identify how predictably a player produces on the field relative to draft position.

In statistics, a correlation coefficient will vary between 1 and -1, with this data, if production were perfectly predictable (ie players drafted higher will always be better), the coefficient would be -1, meaning that a lower draft position number (#1 overall, vs #150 in the 4th round) will always have a higher CareerAV number.  The stronger that correlation number, the more value is skewed towards high draft picks, the the inverse also true.

Some predictable results (to me at least):

  1. QB production is highly predictable.  There is a huge difference between the CareerAV of early and late round players and the correlation between draft position and production is the strongest of any position.
  2. OT production is also highly predictable.  Early round players produce, late round players here generally don't.  Slightly interesting that from the 4th round on, production is random. Most will not produce, but a guy in the 7th is just as likely to work out as anyone.
  3. Interior OL production has the weakest relationship between draft position and production.  This makes the position poor value early and good value late.  Production is also random from R4 onwards.  Even isolating players taken within the first 3 rounds, the correlation between draft position and production is not strong, meaning earlier picks in this position are riskier than at other positions.

Some surprising results:

  1. RB production is relatively predictable.  The data says that the NFL is generally effective in splitting players to draft early vs. late, but within R1-3 the correlation is moderate.  So, 2nd / 3rd round picks are good value.
  2. The split in production between early and late round WRs is huge.  Pick your WRs early, but within those early rounds, production is not strongly predictable.  So, the same as RBs, draft your WRs in the 2nd and 3rd.    
  3. TE production is somewhat predictable, but in TEs drafted in the early rounds, production isn't all that predictable.  This is another position where you get get production drafting in early rounds,  but within that, the later the better for value.
  4. LB production is more predictable than average, and there is a solid difference in production between early and late round drafted players.
  5. All DL players have among the lower difference in production between early and late rounds.  I expected this to be true for DT, but not DE.  Production is more predictable for DE but value can be had in later rounds at both positions. 
  6. CB production is only moderately predictable and there is less difference between early / late round production than at most positions.  I expected the opposite to be true.
  7. S production is generally predictable, and is predictable even within players drafted in early rounds.  In other words, don't be shy about drafting S early.

Some overall conclusions I'm taking from this (ignoring position value in scheme etc):

  1. Players projected early at QB, OT, S are generally most likely to produce.
  2. There's a heap of value and flexibility in R2-3, with WR, RB, TE, LB, S picked here, generally likely to produce.
  3. Stop taking late round flyers on WR.
  4. Instead, spend those later round picks on DL and Interior OL
  5. In the later round pool, RB, LB, TE are better to take in R4 than R7, within the pool of later round players, production is still fairly predictable.

While I believe in these results, I also think than in looking at players who have the chance to be truly elite, exceptions should be made.

Flame away!

I'm stupid with numbers like that graph but I understand the overall here. 

One of the big takeaways for me is that most of us who defended taking Wentz over Elliot in that draft were correct in terms of value at the time there and I hate to say it but Chip Kelly's evaluation in general is correct on the RB spot. 

Does this factor in longevity with production as well? 

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9 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

I'm stupid with numbers like that graph but I understand the overall here. 

One of the big takeaways for me is that most of us who defended taking Wentz over Elliot in that draft were correct in terms of value at the time there and I hate to say it but Chip Kelly's evaluation in general is correct on the RB spot. 

Does this factor in longevity with production as well? 

The data set is only 5 years, so longevity doesn't impact significantly.  Basically if you need a QB, you need to draft one very early, which is something I think everyone would have expected.  Exceptions like Dak Prescott etc. happen much less often at QB than other positions.

I'm not sure what Chip Kelly's view on RB was, I think he got rid of McCoy because he didn't like players who questioned him or had big personalities.  He replaced him with Murray who was about the same $$, but played much worse and was a poor fit for his Offense.

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1 hour ago, Ash said:

A Statistical Look at Draft Value

Over the last couple of days I've been looking at comparing on field production to draft value, and I've come up with some interesting numbers I think.

I used data from Pro Football Reference to for the five years between 2014 and 2018 to examine the relationship between draft position and their Career Approximate Value metric. No metric is perfect, but this one generally seems to hold, and it has the benefit of being used across all positions.  Stopping at 2018 allows a fair assessment of players drafted in that year, since they have had the opportunity for 3 years of production.

Couldn't get the table to post in a readable way, so here's the link

I split the data across positions, and across early (1-3) and late (4+) rounds.  What I'm trying to do by that is identify how much production varies across early and late round players at different positions, and use the correlation number to identify how predictably a player produces on the field relative to draft position.

In statistics, a correlation coefficient will vary between 1 and -1, with this data, if production were perfectly predictable (ie players drafted higher will always be better), the coefficient would be -1, meaning that a lower draft position number (#1 overall, vs #150 in the 4th round) will always have a higher CareerAV number.  The stronger that correlation number, the more value is skewed towards high draft picks, the the inverse also true.

Some predictable results (to me at least):

  1. QB production is highly predictable.  There is a huge difference between the CareerAV of early and late round players and the correlation between draft position and production is the strongest of any position.
  2. OT production is also highly predictable.  Early round players produce, late round players here generally don't.  Slightly interesting that from the 4th round on, production is random. Most will not produce, but a guy in the 7th is just as likely to work out as anyone.
  3. Interior OL production has the weakest relationship between draft position and production.  This makes the position poor value early and good value late.  Production is also random from R4 onwards.  Even isolating players taken within the first 3 rounds, the correlation between draft position and production is not strong, meaning earlier picks in this position are riskier than at other positions.

Some surprising results:

  1. RB production is relatively predictable.  The data says that the NFL is generally effective in splitting players to draft early vs. late, but within R1-3 the correlation is moderate.  So, 2nd / 3rd round picks are good value.
  2. The split in production between early and late round WRs is huge.  Pick your WRs early, but within those early rounds, production is not strongly predictable.  So, the same as RBs, draft your WRs in the 2nd and 3rd.    
  3. TE production is somewhat predictable, but in TEs drafted in the early rounds, production isn't all that predictable.  This is another position where you get get production drafting in early rounds,  but within that, the later the better for value.
  4. LB production is more predictable than average, and there is a solid difference in production between early and late round drafted players.
  5. All DL players have among the lower difference in production between early and late rounds.  I expected this to be true for DT, but not DE.  Production is more predictable for DE but value can be had in later rounds at both positions. 
  6. CB production is only moderately predictable and there is less difference between early / late round production than at most positions.  I expected the opposite to be true.
  7. S production is generally predictable, and is predictable even within players drafted in early rounds.  In other words, don't be shy about drafting S early.

Some overall conclusions I'm taking from this (ignoring position value in scheme etc):

  1. Players projected early at QB, OT, S are generally most likely to produce.
  2. There's a heap of value and flexibility in R2-3, with WR, RB, TE, LB, S picked here, generally likely to produce.
  3. Stop taking late round flyers on WR.
  4. Instead, spend those later round picks on DL and Interior OL
  5. In the later round pool, RB, LB, TE are better to take in R4 than R7, within the pool of later round players, production is still fairly predictable.

While I believe in these results, I also think than in looking at players who have the chance to be truly elite, exceptions should be made.

Flame away!

No flame, excellent stuff and thank you. As a long time follower of the draft your findings generally match my perceptions. Agree that elite talent changes things. The question in my mind is whether Pitts is truly elite at the TE position. 

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7 hours ago, Deamon said:

I don't think it looks that way because it's different.  This is a guy that isn't even going in the first 2 days of the draft.  Who are career QB's taken that late?  The list is very short and I don't think he has the talent at all to be the next Brady.

 

6 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

Mond isn't that good at all. The fact he has him over Trask and Mac Jones is 3rd despite the fact both Trask and Jones played at a high level very similar isn't there is pretty bad. Especially when Trask and Jones are far more talented and even outplayed Mond who is in their conference as well. I'm not super high on Lance but I'd take him over Mond and even Fields. 

My point is that if he’s the 3rd, 4th ranked QB on his board doesn’t mean he doesn’t have him pegged as a 3rd rounder. Same with Fields etc. just because he had him at 3 doesn’t mean he’s saying he’s a sure fire first round QB or even a second. Maybe I missed him say he was a first round guy though. 

And while I haven’t watched Mond I have watched Trask and he’s awful. Like really, really bad. 

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23 hours ago, Ash said:

I like listening to him because he doesn't just go with the groupthink and always has a reason for how he ranks them.  He's wrong sometimes sure, but he also talks at times about guys he's been wrong on, and what he's learned from it.

 

Not relevant to the Eagles but did Simms say what he doesn’t like about Lawrence? I thought he was a unanimous #1. 

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3 minutes ago, Tom Hagen said:

Not relevant to the Eagles but did Simms say what he doesn’t like about Lawrence? I thought he was a unanimous #1. 

Accuracy is inconsistent, and benefits from a lot of manufactured "college" throws without requiring pre snap or post snap  reads, like WR screens. Said his ceiling is still incredibly high.

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11 minutes ago, Ash said:

Accuracy is inconsistent, and benefits from a lot of manufactured "college" throws without requiring pre snap or post snap  reads, like WR screens. Said his ceiling is still incredibly high.

He also played in a trash conference his entire career 

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8 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I had no idea who he was if I’m being honest and was shocked to see him so high. With that said, he didn’t just toss his name out there and gave details why. I’m good with that. 

I watched him play many times.  Every game I was wondering why AM never found someone to push him for his job.   He's a very average college qb.   Got a ton of stats because he played forever.    Never won a big game 

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7 hours ago, Ash said:

A Statistical Look at Draft Value

Over the last couple of days I've been looking at comparing on field production to draft value, and I've come up with some interesting numbers I think.

I used data from Pro Football Reference to for the five years between 2014 and 2018 to examine the relationship between draft position and their Career Approximate Value metric. No metric is perfect, but this one generally seems to hold, and it has the benefit of being used across all positions.  Stopping at 2018 allows a fair assessment of players drafted in that year, since they have had the opportunity for 3 years of production.

Couldn't get the table to post in a readable way, so here's the link

I split the data across positions, and across early (1-3) and late (4+) rounds.  What I'm trying to do by that is identify how much production varies across early and late round players at different positions, and use the correlation number to identify how predictably a player produces on the field relative to draft position.

In statistics, a correlation coefficient will vary between 1 and -1, with this data, if production were perfectly predictable (ie players drafted higher will always be better), the coefficient would be -1, meaning that a lower draft position number (#1 overall, vs #150 in the 4th round) will always have a higher CareerAV number.  The stronger that correlation number, the more value is skewed towards high draft picks, the the inverse also true.

Some predictable results (to me at least):

  1. QB production is highly predictable.  There is a huge difference between the CareerAV of early and late round players and the correlation between draft position and production is the strongest of any position.
  2. OT production is also highly predictable.  Early round players produce, late round players here generally don't.  Slightly interesting that from the 4th round on, production is random. Most will not produce, but a guy in the 7th is just as likely to work out as anyone.
  3. Interior OL production has the weakest relationship between draft position and production.  This makes the position poor value early and good value late.  Production is also random from R4 onwards.  Even isolating players taken within the first 3 rounds, the correlation between draft position and production is not strong, meaning earlier picks in this position are riskier than at other positions.

Some surprising results:

  1. RB production is relatively predictable.  The data says that the NFL is generally effective in splitting players to draft early vs. late, but within R1-3 the correlation is moderate.  So, 2nd / 3rd round picks are good value.
  2. The split in production between early and late round WRs is huge.  Pick your WRs early, but within those early rounds, production is not strongly predictable.  So, the same as RBs, draft your WRs in the 2nd and 3rd.    
  3. TE production is somewhat predictable, but in TEs drafted in the early rounds, production isn't all that predictable.  This is another position where you get get production drafting in early rounds,  but within that, the later the better for value.
  4. LB production is more predictable than average, and there is a solid difference in production between early and late round drafted players.
  5. All DL players have among the lower difference in production between early and late rounds.  I expected this to be true for DT, but not DE.  Production is more predictable for DE but value can be had in later rounds at both positions. 
  6. CB production is only moderately predictable and there is less difference between early / late round production than at most positions.  I expected the opposite to be true.
  7. S production is generally predictable, and is predictable even within players drafted in early rounds.  In other words, don't be shy about drafting S early.

Some overall conclusions I'm taking from this (ignoring position value in scheme etc):

  1. Players projected early at QB, OT, S are generally most likely to produce.
  2. There's a heap of value and flexibility in R2-3, with WR, RB, TE, LB, S picked here, generally likely to produce.
  3. Stop taking late round flyers on WR.
  4. Instead, spend those later round picks on DL and Interior OL
  5. In the later round pool, RB, LB, TE are better to take in R4 than R7, within the pool of later round players, production is still fairly predictable.

While I believe in these results, I also think than in looking at players who have the chance to be truly elite, exceptions should be made.

Flame away!

Good stuff.   It seems like almost all positions you were mentioning were 'predictable' and the earlier you go, the better chance of a hit.  I agree though, QB and WR seem to be the big ones for me that you almost only find studs when you go early on them.  Exceptions of course, but I absolutely HATE qb's outside of the first round.... for every RW and TB that people give examples of, there's thousands of misses.

That's why if we want an elite franchise QB, i think we go for one this year.... Jalen isn't the answer.  But I also understand that there's a good chance there's no elite guys that they like at 6, so in that case then grab one of those WR's I guess.

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19 hours ago, Ash said:

The data set is only 5 years, so longevity doesn't impact significantly.  Basically if you need a QB, you need to draft one very early, which is something I think everyone would have expected.  Exceptions like Dak Prescott etc. happen much less often at QB than other positions.

I'm not sure what Chip Kelly's view on RB was, I think he got rid of McCoy because he didn't like players who questioned him or had big personalities.  He replaced him with Murray who was about the same $$, but played much worse and was a poor fit for his Offense.

He didn't believe the value of RB was all that high is what he said about why getting rid of McCoy. Now part of that is true but also what you said about thim not like McCoy's personality as well.The initial thought process was right as I don't agree in paying RBs big time unless you got a 3 down workhorse like a Henrey/Cook etc. 

I'd really be interested in seeing what the numbers say though if you take longer yrs though 

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16 hours ago, need2know said:

He also played in a trash conference his entire career 

This was a huge argument of mine for Jamis Winston as well as the fact he had a great defense that bailed him out constantly. His overthrows in college weren't being picked off in that conference but I remember the horrible game vs Florida in Tallahassee that the Gators D picked him off 3 times and he lost 2 fumbles. It was one of the worst 1st half college performances I have seen from a QB at that level. The worst part is UF still lost because they had zero QB play and a better QB play even avg knocks FSU out of the title that year. I remember another time Jimbo yelled at him because he was lacking situational awareness at the end of he game. he turned an easy kneel down or two into a choir where he got too cute and nonchalant almost fumbled it giving the other guys a chance to take a lead. 

Point is a lot of people get enamored by guys numbers and some of the fans don't watch every game. When you watch at least 90% of games you pick up on little things on guys you might not see if you casually watch or only watch the big games. You notice things on these guys that can become a concern. Also a lot of people don't realize how bad certain conferences are. I remember how hyped up Reggie Bush was. He never lived up to the #1 pick but thats not all his fault. He had some injury issues and he came from a trash conference that was USC and everyone else was meh. The defensive rankings I remember checking the highest rated defense in the PAC10 I think was ranked 55 in the country he faced. Thats pretty bad. This all doesn't mean a player can't be great but I love when people get super excited about some of these guys taking advantage of such garbage competition. Like if they are really good thats what they are suppose to do. Get excited big time when they do it against better comp not the trash of the conference 

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Cap to be at $183M Saints better start cracking on those cap cuts. Difference between them and us is they are gonna release a ton of guys who are important where we got a ton of dead weight we can get rid of, extend a guy in DB or post June 1 cuts as well. Saints don't have that luxury in terms of options with the players they have as opposed to our top releases 

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On 3/7/2021 at 9:28 PM, DJackson10 said:

Most of us know a lot of it is scripted but I think it's funny that people think these shows like Jersey Shore, Duck Dynasty, Bachelor etc are all "REAL". 

Ummm.....actually.....never thought of any of those shows as "real" either. All TERRIBLE

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1 hour ago, renesauz said:

Ummm.....actually.....never thought of any of those shows as "real" either. All TERRIBLE

I was pointing out how many people are gullible enough to believe they are. 

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On 3/8/2021 at 10:08 PM, Ash said:

I think Fields has a pretty low floor.  From Simms POV, he struggles with pre snap recognition, holds the ball and thinks he can shake off rushers like 2010 Big Ben, and that's the kind of thing that can turn a guy into a bust in a couple of years.

That would only be a problem for NON quarterback factories.

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In looking at these QBs it’s important to remember that even at this level of scrutiny it’s still hard.  I remember Herbert getting a lot of criticism this time last year, and I saw him compared to Trubisky more than once.  Look at how he played, so 🤷‍♂️.  

So much of it comes down to the quality of the coaching and how much the player is able to take that on.

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4 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

With the Chiefs release of OT Eric Fisher, Eagles OT Lane Johnson is the only player taken in first round of the 2013 #NFLDraft still with the team that drafted him, and to never have been cut/traded/retired.

I always wonder if it was true that they really wanted Dion Jordan instead.😬

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4 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

With the Chiefs release of OT Eric Fisher, Eagles OT Lane Johnson is the only player taken in first round of the 2013 #NFLDraft still with the team that drafted him, and to never have been cut/traded/retired.

Solid draft pick right there. I think a lot of fans and media underrate how great Lane is and how important he's been since coming here. If we get rid of Dillard in a trade and he's willing to come in I wouldn't be opposed to Eric Fisher for some Tackle depth. 

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8 minutes ago, Ash said:

In looking at these QBs it’s important to remember that even at this level of scrutiny it’s still hard.  I remember Herbert getting a lot of criticism this time last year, and I saw him compared to Trubisky more than once.  Look at how he played, so 🤷‍♂️.  

So much of it comes down to the quality of the coaching and how much the player is able to take that on.

It's the environment in general they get drafted into as well. For example a Lamar Jackson even today redo that draft I'm not drafting him in the top 10. he was picked where he should be for his skillset and the team he was on. He's not gonna get much better then he is now and in his prime. A guy like him should be going to a team like Bal who already has talent to surround him with and proper coaching. If Lamar was drafted by one of the NY Teams, Clev or Den he's probably sucking right now 

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10 minutes ago, Ash said:

I always wonder if it was true that they really wanted Dion Jordan instead.😬

Oh he wanted Mariota big time and was ready to trade the house for him and he really wanted Dion Jordan. Mia saved us there on DJ. I remember seeing reports and then having others tell me Howie kept Chip from drafting Huff in the 2nd round and Taylor Hart in the 3rd round. Dude had zero idea on draft value he'd make Howie look good. Howie told him when they tried drafting Jordan Matthews in the 1st he'd be there but he could pick another one of his targets. Unfortunately that was Marcus Smith. Howie took the blame for that when Chip left as the Eagles thought it was better PR wise to have the fans bacon their side. 

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1 hour ago, DJackson10 said:

Solid draft pick right there. I think a lot of fans and media underrate how great Lane is and how important he's been since coming here. If we get rid of Dillard in a trade and he's willing to come in I wouldn't be opposed to Eric Fisher for some Tackle depth. 

No way we can't afford him

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7 hours ago, Ash said:

In looking at these QBs it’s important to remember that even at this level of scrutiny it’s still hard.  I remember Herbert getting a lot of criticism this time last year, and I saw him compared to Trubisky more than once.  Look at how he played, so 🤷‍♂️.  

So much of it comes down to the quality of the coaching and how much the player is able to take that on.

Yep. I remember someone saying “He (Herbert) can’t play. Literally, he has no idea how to play”

Similar things with Josh Allen as well. Coaching, scheme and weapons are huge too

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1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Yep. I remember someone saying “He (Herbert) can’t play. Literally, he has no idea how to play”

Similar things with Josh Allen as well. Coaching, scheme and weapons are huge too

The right team as well is huge. 

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On 3/9/2021 at 1:52 PM, DJackson10 said:

Thats because most had him as a day 3 pick in the 5th round or later. Most scouting reports had project QB if he has success in the NFL he's gonna have to a team build talent around him. Some scouts still even said he was better off switching positions entirely. 

Your insufferable and will be eating your words. Many mocks had Hurts going in the 2nd round. In fact he was ESPN’s fastest riser in the draft; Mel and Todd both had him going in the 2nd round. Where do you get your information from? 

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15 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Yep. I remember someone saying “He (Herbert) can’t play. Literally, he has no idea how to play”

Similar things with Josh Allen as well. Coaching, scheme and weapons are huge too

 

14 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

The right team as well is huge. 

Pretty sure coaching, scheme, and weapons is the team :P

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17 minutes ago, Deamon said:

 

Pretty sure coaching, scheme, and weapons is the team :P

I meant overall. You could have a great coach scheme and weapons but if you have an org who wants things done a certain way it's never gonna work. Culture matters a lot too. I'm not a huge RG3 fan but I think if he went to an org that didn't put up with his immaturity he could've found more success in his career. Not saying he doesn't tear his knee but becomes a better overall player and teammate rather then doing so later in his career. 

Same with Vick. He was successful but the team culture wasn't great for him. Blank and everyone let Vick do as he pleased with a lot of immaturity. Right culture maybe he gets out of the dogfighting earlier and isn't spending half of his career in prison. 

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Another Jeff McClane drama piece today. The problem with these pieces is that some of it very may be true but when he adds parts like this. 

"Lurie is a likable figure. He’s idealistic, which can often leave him unsatisfied. Even after the Super Bowl win, he questioned defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz on his unit’s poor performance against the Patriots.

A year later, after the Eagles skirted past the Bears in the first round of the playoffs, Lurie was despondent in the locker room because the offense had scored only 16 points, sources said. In 2019, when the Eagles upset the Packers on the road, 34-27, Lurie’s elation was muted because the offense had favored the running game."

Come on now. Lurie was far from despondent after a playoff win and who would ever get upset with a win because they ran the ball too much. These are absurd anecdotes that make the rest unbelievable by association.

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16 hours ago, Tejas said:

Your insufferable and will be eating your words. Many mocks had Hurts going in the 2nd round. In fact he was ESPN’s fastest riser in the draft; Mel and Todd both had him going in the 2nd round. Where do you get your information from? 

Did you expect an answer?

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6 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I meant overall. You could have a great coach scheme and weapons but if you have an org who wants things done a certain way it's never gonna work. Culture matters a lot too. I'm not a huge RG3 fan but I think if he went to an org that didn't put up with his immaturity he could've found more success in his career. Not saying he doesn't tear his knee but becomes a better overall player and teammate rather then doing so later in his career. 

Same with Vick. He was successful but the team culture wasn't great for him. Blank and everyone let Vick do as he pleased with a lot of immaturity. Right culture maybe he gets out of the dogfighting earlier and isn't spending half of his career in prison. 

You need to work on your camera game and publish your BS hot takes like skip bayless. 

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56 minutes ago, Insein said:

"Lurie is a likable figure. He’s idealistic, which can often leave him unsatisfied. Even after the Super Bowl win, he questioned defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz on his unit’s poor performance against the Patriots.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Insein said:

Come on now. Lurie was far from despondent after a playoff win and who would ever get upset with a win because they ran the ball too much. These are absurd anecdotes that make the rest unbelievable by association.

If you remember what I wrote from my source the bolded I put in there that despite the SB win Lurie was not all that pleased with Schwartz defensive performance. So I'll give McLane that part but he probably stole it from someone else like he does when he gets something right. 

the 2nd quote I find that hard to believe. Then theres the whole Lane Johnson thing where Lane put a twitter comment with him doing community work just minding my own business with the googley eyes. It's a direct shot at McLane's article. Most of the players hate him and I'm still waiting for one of these players to pull a Jake Vorcek on him and call him out on his BS. The only reason McLane still has a media pass is because at this point if the Eagles took it away from him sh** would hit the fan and they'd get the bad PR from the neanderthal talk radio side and "fans" saying the Eagles took his pass away because he was too critical of them. 

I was holding off trying to post any of what McLane wrote because it's a lot of bull and he's really not worth the time anymore. He's just a pompous ### troll seeking attention. It amazes me how many still give him that satisfaction 

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1 hour ago, Insein said:

Another Jeff McClane drama piece today. The problem with these pieces is that some of it very may be true but when he adds parts like this. 

"Lurie is a likable figure. He’s idealistic, which can often leave him unsatisfied. Even after the Super Bowl win, he questioned defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz on his unit’s poor performance against the Patriots.

A year later, after the Eagles skirted past the Bears in the first round of the playoffs, Lurie was despondent in the locker room because the offense had scored only 16 points, sources said. In 2019, when the Eagles upset the Packers on the road, 34-27, Lurie’s elation was muted because the offense had favored the running game."

Come on now. Lurie was far from despondent after a playoff win and who would ever get upset with a win because they ran the ball too much. These are absurd anecdotes that make the rest unbelievable by association.

This was from one of my guys moments ago 

"Story was about 5,000 words too long

Needed an editor"

Everyone is apparently having a good kick out of this one 

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41 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

This was from one of my guys moments ago 

"Story was about 5,000 words too long

Needed an editor"

Everyone is apparently having a good kick out of this one 

It feels like it was written entirely to create programming for talk radio.

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And here's the reports already denying the Lane incident between Roseman McLane wrote

John Clark

2h  · 

Source says Lane Johnson was willing to restructure his contract to help Eagles with the cap but now will not be restructuring because Eagles don’t need him to

And a source close to Lane says Lane is totally cool and fine with Howie Roseman

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2 hours ago, Insein said:

It feels like it was written entirely to create programming for talk radio.

Oh it was McLane has nothing better to do than to ##### and moan about the team so he creates these fake stories to him and his dying paper clicks. It's a shame Les Bowen is even doing a podcast with him. Domo is good. However why create it on a Friday right before the league year starts on Monday? Surely this could've been a piece written for this past Monday. 

Other guy I can't stand at the Inquire is Marcus Hayes but these days he's just an opinion writer. Yesterday he was complaining the Eagles aren't rebuilding because there's still too many old guys on the roster. Now if we were at Training camp and all I'd say he has a point but c'mon the new league year is like 4 days away!!!! He just gives hot takes and sometimes I feel racial undertones like he's trying to be Jason Whitlock at times. 

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