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2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Dallas week! Tony Romo's collar bone still has Jordan Hicks' helmet imprint.


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30 minutes ago, modogg said:

So I have been on the side that I wanted this Carson thing to be over quickly but listening to sports radio while driving a bit and I think I feel the opposite. I think these sports media guys on the radio may have their head’s explode waiting and trying to break this first. David Montgomery tweeted he likes Chicago and they spend 20-30 minutes thinking a trade has happened 

One good reason Carson stays is to watch all these clowns who wanted him gone just implode. That would be just as entertaining if not More. Plus imagine if he comes back and has an MVP like Season next year. Angelo, Gigolo and others would be backpedaling for answers. 

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1 hour ago, DJackson10 said:

One good reason Carson stays is to watch all these clowns who wanted him gone just implode. That would be just as entertaining if not More. Plus imagine if he comes back and has an MVP like Season next year. Angelo, Gigolo and others would be backpedaling for answers. 

They wouldn't backpedal. They'd try to justify being right still. 

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2 minutes ago, Insein said:

They wouldn't backpedal. They'd try to justify being right still. 

I think some would backpedal but guys like Angelo would try to justify it. Angelo to this day is still trying to Justify The Dirty 30 and kicked Shaun Young off the morning show appearance he did because he asked Shaun to get the Dirty 30 back together to boo McNabb's first game here with WAS. When Young refused Cataldia had temper tantrum and kicked Shaun off the show. 

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38 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

I think some would backpedal but guys like Angelo would try to justify it. Angelo to this day is still trying to Justify The Dirty 30 and kicked Shaun Young off the morning show appearance he did because he asked Shaun to get the Dirty 30 back together to boo McNabb's first game here with WAS. When Young refused Cataldia had temper tantrum and kicked Shaun off the show. 

Why do you bring WIP nonsense in here? 

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1 hour ago, DJackson10 said:

Plus imagine if he comes back and has an MVP like Season next year. 

Slobbering over talk radio banter aside...What are the odds you’d put on him being in Philly next year and wining the MVP?

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2 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Slobbering over talk radio banter aside...What are the odds you’d put on him being in Philly next year and wining the MVP?

I was just saying it'd be fun to watch. I think the Odds are better he stays in Philly and gets back to at least pre MVP level then going further down hill 

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2 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Why do you bring WIP nonsense in here? 

Why do you continue to bring up reports that were already proven incorrect constantly? 

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15 hours ago, need2know said:

Hes gone.   Just a matter of when and what we get

This. Point of no return. No chance both Wentz/Hurts are back for 2021.

Sooner they get something done....the better the return will be for them. I think you'll have teams that want him like the Goff package......while Eagles want Stafford package. I think winds up something in between.

Longer they hold off, I think teams will transition to Darnold (2 years at fraction of cost).....and other QB options via trade/FA/draft. 

 

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL
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7 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

This. Point of no return. No chance both Wentz/Hurts are back for 2021.

Sooner they get something done....the better the return will be for them. I think you'll have teams that want him like the Goff package......while Eagles want Stafford package. I think winds up something in between.

Longer they hold off, I think teams will transition to Darnold (2 years at fraction of cost).....and other QB options via trade/FA/draft. 

 

Honestly if they don't get what they want I could see them waiting till camp or something. Hoping some team has a Bridgewater situation where the QB goes down and are desperate as they need to compete next year. 

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Lets play a game and here's something interesting. As of right now it seems the Eagles as a whole WANT TO KEEP WENTZ BUT ULTIMATELY IT SEEMS LIKE ITS UP TO HIM AT THIS POINT IF HE WANTS TO STAY OR NOT. We've also seen reports and a few of my contacts have said THE ORGANIZATION ISN"T HIGH ON JALEN HURTS AS A FRANCHISE QB EITHER. 

So with that said I've been reading a lot who the Colts may target or fit wise in the draft at QB. Now this all depends on where he's selected as some believe he has day 1 talent others day 2. Say the Eagles Take Kyle Trask. His old QB Coach/OC in Brian Johnson is the Eagles QB coach and Nic Sirianni is the Colts former OC. Given what I've heard from people on opinions in the org about Hurts and seeing how much the Eagles want back in a Wentz trade truly shows even if the Org feels like they have to trade Wentz they really don't have much faith in Hurts either. Now this isn't to say Kyle Trask will turn into the Next Patrick Mahomes or anything but there are a few scouts who believe do to his consistency he's gonna end up having a better and longer career then OSU's Justin Fields. Trask also wouldn't mind sitting behind a guy for a year either as he's done that for most of his career. Would it create more of a QB controversy still? Sure it will but neither of these two guys are the type who seem like they would pout about it either. I don't like Hurts Projection as an NFL QB but I've always said I've admired his work ethic on a whole. 

This idea seems a bit crazy but you can also argue for why it could happen. Especially if Trask ends up slipping in the draft and gets to the point there is no reason not to take him. Trask also has played with terrible Offensive Lines before in his career. 

Edited by DJackson10
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24 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

Lets play a game and here's something interesting. As of right now it seems the Eagles as a whole WANT TO KEEP WENTZ BUT ULTIMATELY IT SEEMS LIKE ITS UP TO HIM AT THIS POINT IF HE WANTS TO STAY OR NOT. We've also seen reports and a few of my contacts have said THE ORGANIZATION ISN"T HIGH ON JALEN HURTS AS A FRANCHISE QB EITHER. 

So with that said I've been reading a lot who the Colts may target or fit wise in the draft at QB. Now this all depends on where he's selected as some believe he has day 1 talent others day 2. Say the Eagles Take Kyle Trask. His old QB Coach/OC in Brian Johnson is the Eagles QB coach and Nic Sirianni is the Colts former OC. Given what I've heard from people on opinions in the org about Hurts and seeing how much the Eagles want back in a Wentz trade truly shows even if the Org feels like they have to trade Wentz they really don't have much faith in Hurts either. Now this isn't to say Kyle Trask will turn into the Next Patrick Mahomes or anything but there are a few scouts who believe do to his consistency he's gonna end up having a better and longer career then OSU's Justin Fields. Trask also wouldn't mind sitting behind a guy for a year either as he's done that for most of his career. Would it create more of a QB controversy still? Sure it will but neither of these two guys are the type who seem like they would pout about it either. I don't like Hurts Projection as an NFL QB but I've always said I've admired his work ethic on a whole. 

This idea seems a bit crazy but you can also argue for why it could happen. Especially if Trask ends up slipping in the draft and gets to the point there is no reason not to take him. Trask also has played with terrible Offensive Lines before in his career. 

give me mac jones over trask

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1 hour ago, Insein said:

Supposedly Colts offering 2 2nd rounders for Wentz. Unfortunately not both this year.

It’s in their best interest to take this as close to his roster bonus as possible to see where we are with it. They don’t have a QB and their HC wants Wentz. They’re not in a great spot and I’m sure they don’t want Darnold. If they want him they will have to pony up. If not, keep him. If he’s bad his value is shot, we play Hurts and he’s cuttable. If he does well his value increases for a trade or you possible keep him. IMO we are not in as bad a spot as people think. 

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What's the statute of limitations on "imminent"? The media was whipping up the fanbase last week before the Super Bowl, and now, crickets.

Have the Eagles gotten to the point where they have to trade him, now? Is there any chance Carson comes back to play this year? My take has been they should roll with him this year, unless they get a blockbuster trade offer. Now? I don't know how they recover and move forward with him on the roster.

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30 minutes ago, ProstheticRGK said:

What's the statute of limitations on "imminent"? The media was whipping up the fanbase last week before the Super Bowl, and now, crickets.

Have the Eagles gotten to the point where they have to trade him, now? Is there any chance Carson comes back to play this year? My take has been they should roll with him this year, unless they get a blockbuster trade offer. Now? I don't know how they recover and move forward with him on the roster.

It's kinda easy.   Just don't do anything 

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If Wentz is on this team next season it will be a disaster.....take the 2 second rd picks and move on.....its not awful considering that contract and how bad his 2020 season was.....they will regret bringing him back if that was on the table.  

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2 hours ago, unckeyherb said:

No way I’d take that 

 

1 hour ago, need2know said:

Booooo

 

15 minutes ago, Kiddnets said:

If Wentz is on this team next season it will be a disaster.....take the 2 second rd picks and move on.....its not awful considering that contract and how bad his 2020 season was.....they will regret bringing him back if that was on the table.  

I think the offer is pretty lousy but what is fair value? He's not worth what Stafford hauled in? He's more Goff at this point, yes/no? And if that's the case then why not start adding picks with Wentz to get back something special? 

Think outside the box for a minute. If you are trying to get a better QB eventually, maybe starting Wentz for another season and failing miserably is the way to go. 

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7 hours ago, need2know said:

give me mac jones over trask

I'd take either. I was just setting up a scenario as just from what it seems like Hurts doesn't have a lot of favor in the org either. I could see a scenario Both Wentz and Hurts not being on the roster by 2022. 

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1 hour ago, ProstheticRGK said:

What's the statute of limitations on "imminent"? The media was whipping up the fanbase last week before the Super Bowl, and now, crickets.

Have the Eagles gotten to the point where they have to trade him, now? Is there any chance Carson comes back to play this year? My take has been they should roll with him this year, unless they get a blockbuster trade offer. Now? I don't know how they recover and move forward with him on the roster.

Most will forget about the report or claim someone leaked something to get people excited. 

I've been with you on this opinion for awhile. Also it's quite possible Lurie told Wentz we'd look into trading you but if we don't get an offer we fair is good value we will keep you and Wentz may have been ok with that. No one knows anything for sure though.

Also reports have come out today SEA is getting a ton of trade offers for Russel Wilson but Sea has kindly told the teams to shove it 

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3 hours ago, Insein said:

Supposedly Colts offering 2 2nd rounders for Wentz. Unfortunately not both this year.

that's a terrible offer. If I'm getting 2 2nds I expect a player from the colts coming my way too 

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People talk about how bad our cap is but a few restructures, trades/cuts and we can get under. We also have 20M in space that will go over into the next cap. One of the things that really screwed the Eagles was the Pandemic. Remember talking about the Wentz contract awhile back when it first happened and some cap experts were talking about how 2021 cap was suppose to rise to almost 200M. Obviously the pandemic put a dent in that as well. Hopefully and it looks like it could happen but we could see some if not 50-75% possible attendance in stadiums by the fall. I don't claim to be an economics major or expert but thats a lot better then no fans and should help for the year after. The Eagles need to hit on at least 75% of their picks this years draft and make smart decisions involving contracts they have right now and what they give out. 

The god thing for the Eagles is we got a ton of casualty options to offload either by trade or cutting. A few guys like Hargraves and Cox deals we could restructure. Trading or cutting Ertz, extending or cutting (June 1st Designation)/Trade Derek Barnett, Cutting both Jackson and Jeffreys with June 1st designations, etc. 

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I know you guys are passionate about your team and all, but I find it hard to believe that you really think 2 2nd rounders for a guy who was one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and has an albatross of a contract is an awful offer. I mean, the market is what the market is, and there are reasons why no one is beating down your door for him.

Honestly Reich seems to have a pretty big ego, I'd take advantage of it before someone talks some sense into him.

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2 hours ago, humpback said:

I know you guys are passionate about your team and all, but I find it hard to believe that you really think 2 2nd rounders for a guy who was one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and has an albatross of a contract is an awful offer. I mean, the market is what the market is, and there are reasons why no one is beating down your door for him.

Honestly Reich seems to have a pretty big ego, I'd take advantage of it before someone talks some sense into him.

That just might be the market for him. What I’m saying is that is not enough to move on. For that price I’d rather we put his ### on the field in 2021 and see if he has anything. 

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3 hours ago, Kiddnets said:

If Wentz is on this team next season it will be a disaster.....take the 2 second rd picks and move on.....its not awful considering that contract and how bad his 2020 season was.....they will regret bringing him back if that was on the table.  

And if he’s on the team and we start 2-0, 3-1 or even a 4-3 and he looks good, is it still a disaster?

If he gets this team to even a 9-7 after last year and he looks good than what?
 

1 hour ago, humpback said:

I know you guys are passionate about your team and all, but I find it hard to believe that you really think 2 2nd rounders for a guy who was one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and has an albatross of a contract is an awful offer. I mean, the market is what the market is, and there are reasons why no one is beating down your door for him.

Honestly Reich seems to have a pretty big ego, I'd take advantage of it before someone talks some sense into him.

Do you take this same approach in fantasy football as well? If you have a guy that had one down year in a keeper league do you just get rid of him? You can’t be on the wrong end of the buy low. 

Youre right, the contract is bad and if we move on we eat the highest dead cap hit in the history of the game. So for 2 second round picks, why deal a relatively young QB, who’s shown talent? Just cause?

Never heard anything about Reich’s ego and Wentz had an MVP like season with him. 

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Just now, Wooderson said:

That just might be the market for him. What I’m saying is that is not enough to move on. For that price I’d rather we put his ### on the field in 2021 and see if he has anything. 

Yep and if he blows you still have Hurts and Wentz’s value will not have changed much, if at all. 

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7 hours ago, humpback said:

I know you guys are passionate about your team and all, but I find it hard to believe that you really think 2 2nd rounders for a guy who was one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and has an albatross of a contract is an awful offer. I mean, the market is what the market is, and there are reasons why no one is beating down your door for him.

Honestly Reich seems to have a pretty big ego, I'd take advantage of it before someone talks some sense into him.

It might be.  Doesnt mean you have to move him though.

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9 hours ago, humpback said:

I know you guys are passionate about your team and all, but I find it hard to believe that you really think 2 2nd rounders for a guy who was one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and has an albatross of a contract is an awful offer. I mean, the market is what the market is, and there are reasons why no one is beating down your door for him.

Honestly Reich seems to have a pretty big ego, I'd take advantage of it before someone talks some sense into him.

Not quite accurate. If Philly trades him Philly eats a huge piece of that contract (bonus money is the issue). The contract is rough for the Eagles no matter what they do....it's not bad at all for any team RECEIVING him.

I can see why someone would say second round picks are fair, but I'm not so sure that those are enough to justify the dead money cap hit for the Eagles. ON the flip side....that would be an absolute STEAL for the receiving team if he recovers back to 2019 levels, let alone 2018. That offer isn't awful....but it's a long way from generous

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1 hour ago, renesauz said:

Not quite accurate. If Philly trades him Philly eats a huge piece of that contract (bonus money is the issue). The contract is rough for the Eagles no matter what they do....it's not bad at all for any team RECEIVING him.

I can see why someone would say second round picks are fair, but I'm not so sure that those are enough to justify the dead money cap hit for the Eagles. ON the flip side....that would be an absolute STEAL for the receiving team if he recovers back to 2019 levels, let alone 2018. That offer isn't awful....but it's a long way from generous

I could see the Colts offering their #21 and eat his contract, because they can afford it.  Its my understanding Philly is in cap hell, so eating his contract probably isn't an option and if their trading partner has to take on that contract, then Philly won't get as much for Wentz.

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To the "Let's just keep him another year if we can't get a good return crowd" the March 19th/3rd league day line in the sand doesn't just affect our 2021 cap. If he's not traded by then it means we also are locked into a 2022 cap hit (even if he's traded after March 19th):

Quote

the contract structure means that it is not simple to just keep him on the roster. On the third day of the 2021 league year, $15 million of Wentz’s base salary for 2022 becomes guaranteed....therefore, Philadelphia needs to decide whether they want to lock themselves into paying Wentz a least $15 million in 2022.

Trading him before March 19th gets every penny of Wentz' contract off the books this cap year and they can move on, free and clear, in 2022 when they will also be free of the dead weight from the Alshon and Malik Jackson contracts (they are both going to be cut) and some others that are coming off or will also be gone (like Ertz, DJax and maybe even Graham.) It makes no sense to be in a "rebuild" mode this year and do things like restructure aging vets to kick the cap can down the road just so you can hang more money from Wentz around your neck, all of which will affect the 2022 cap. 2021 is the purge. It's the ugly, you-feel-nauseous-but-know-you-have-to-puke-before-you-can-start-to-feel-better season.

Also, this is past the point of "just bring him back." He doesn't want to be back and he won't come back. If there were any chance he was open to it, the new coaching staff would have been that opportunity. It's no coincidence that the trade talks started heating up when they did. He's obviously made it clear that the new coach didn't change anything for him so the team is now trying to get what they can for him.

If anyone thinks it's tough in this town already, imagine Wentz coming back after all of this?? The circus it would be, the pressure, the scrutiny, etc. He doesn't want that (and no one would.) So I don't have any doubt that he would threaten to sit out, and actually do it if the team called his bluff. He's not going to want to risk his already injury prone body playing for a team he thinks wronged him and that he doesn't want to play for, even if it means losing money (in holdout fines.) And his agent also wouldn't let him come back and risk it, either. If he is able to turn things around there's at least one more decent contract in his future.

Remember the whole discussion in the 2020 thread late in that disaster of a season about a "0% chance" to win a game not being the same as "some chance" to win. This is past the point of no return. There is a 0% chance Wentz plays another snap for this team. It's the Charles Barkley-Eric Lindros-Scott Rolen trifecta: we're going to get way less than fair value like Barkley, because the team fractured the relationship like Lindros, and the player is miserable playing here like Rolen.

Edited by The Noid
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if our cap situation wasn't so F'd up with all of these bloated contracts for old vets, i would love to see JJ Watt come here to Philly to play along side Fletcher Cox. I doubt his motivation is money right now, an you would think he would love to play next to a stud DL that gets double'd and triple'd sometimes. 

think the Eagles are like 0% chance to get him, but man that would be fun

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55 minutes ago, The Noid said:

There is a 0% chance Wentz plays another snap for this team.

I’m going to peg it at 1%. The messages seem to point toward him wanting out, however, I don’t recall a Deshaun Watson type report where he said he wanted out. Maybe I missed it though. 

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9 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I’m going to peg it at 1%. The messages seem to point toward him wanting out, however, I don’t recall a Deshaun Watson type report where he said he wanted out. Maybe I missed it though. 

He hasn't said anything.   Which most likely means he wants out.  But it would be nice if the baby said something 

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8 minutes ago, need2know said:

He hasn't said anything.   Which most likely means he wants out.  But it would be nice if the baby said something 

There’s no upside and hasn’t been for a while to say anything. 

-Can’t say you want to be back and tell your agent you don’t. He doesn’t strike me as that type of guy anyway

-Can’t say you want out publicly than all leverage is gone and you helped it. And if you stay it’s just completely bad for everyone. 

I don’t know who his agent is to see how they may have handled previous trades out of place, maybe this has been a strategy of his before? Either way I find it odd that there’s nothing concrete fork him or his agent that he wants out but 1% is 1% lol

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I'm reading the Eagles want 2 1st rd picks.  Are they crazy?   Anyone making a trade for Wentz will have to take on his contract and that should drive down the price to no more than a late 1st.  Of course that is just my opinion  and perhaps they can get what they want.  I just hope the Colts don't give any more than the #21 and I prefer they give up less if they take on that contract.  Philly is in cap hell and can't afford to eat Wentz's contract in any trade.

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4 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

As crazy as you and a few million others asking a guy in your league for a deal you know he won’t take right away. 

Love the analogy, but "I'm not that guy".  When push comes to shove I think people are going to be surprised with how much they actually get and I don't think it will be a lot.

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10 hours ago, Wooderson said:

That just might be the market for him. What I’m saying is that is not enough to move on. For that price I’d rather we put his ### on the field in 2021 and see if he has anything. 

I mean, he's been available for a while now, it's pretty clear that's what the market is. It's fine if you don't want to move on for that price, but it's not like there isn't downside to that as well (yes, it could get worse)

10 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Do you take this same approach in fantasy football as well? If you have a guy that had one down year in a keeper league do you just get rid of him? You can’t be on the wrong end of the buy low. 

Youre right, the contract is bad and if we move on we eat the highest dead cap hit in the history of the game. So for 2 second round picks, why deal a relatively young QB, who’s shown talent? Just cause?

Never heard anything about Reich’s ego and Wentz had an MVP like season with him. 

I don't participate in salary cap leagues but if I did, you're damn right I would. Vastly overpaying for poor performance is a death knell. It's not "just cause", it's 'cause they'd get 2 2nd rounders back and a bunch of dead weight off their books in the future. Yes, he's shown talent, but he's also shown horrendous play, and that MVP like season was a long time ago. 

10 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Yep and if he blows you still have Hurts and Wentz’s value will not have changed much, if at all. 

Nonsense. If they keep him and he sucks again you can say goodbye to any draft pick compensation (and more cap space in 2022).

3 hours ago, renesauz said:

Not quite accurate. If Philly trades him Philly eats a huge piece of that contract (bonus money is the issue). The contract is rough for the Eagles no matter what they do....it's not bad at all for any team RECEIVING him.

I can see why someone would say second round picks are fair, but I'm not so sure that those are enough to justify the dead money cap hit for the Eagles. ON the flip side....that would be an absolute STEAL for the receiving team if he recovers back to 2019 levels, let alone 2018. That offer isn't awful....but it's a long way from generous

What I'm reading is Philly eats a bunch of space but he would still count $25.4 mil for the acquiring team in 2021 and $15 mil in 2022 becomes guaranteed on the 3rd day of the 2021 season. That's a lot of money if he doesn't get a heck of a lot better quickly.

Yes, it would be a steal, but that's a HUGE "if". It would be a steal for Philly to get anything for him if he doesn't recover back to those levels. It's a gamble, but considering the contract I think 2 2nd's is more than fair and honestly I think Reich is bidding against himself.

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17 minutes ago, humpback said:

I don't participate in salary cap leagues but if I did, you're damn right I would. Vastly overpaying for poor performance is a death knell. It's not "just cause", it's 'cause they'd get 2 2nd rounders back and a bunch of dead weight off their books in the future. Yes, he's shown talent, but he's also shown horrendous play, and that MVP like season was a long time ago. 

 

You’re paying for the talent and you’re hoping, like many do, that the performance suppresses value enough for you to give less to acquire it.  You already know he’s a buy low. If you know this you can’t be on the wrong end of it unless you feel like he is done as a player. The person who would think that (Howie) has done an awful job at evaluating talent so take that all FWIW. You don’t willingly go to the woodshed. 

 

25 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Love the analogy, but "I'm not that guy".  When push comes to shove I think people are going to be surprised with how much they actually get and I don't think it will be a lot.

You’re also not the guy who would look at the sticker price of a car as an insulting asking price as well. There’s more than enough analogies and chances are you’ve negotiated a bunch in your life already. The thought that it’s “crazy” to ask for two first round picks is what’s actually crazy. 

The Colts are close and the head coach believes Player A is what gets them back in the SB. It’s foolish to not attempt to make that happen or try. Is a Super Bowl trip worth 2 first round picks to you? Obviously that assumes Reich likes Wentz as much as we think. You need to look no further than Tannehill for how important coaching is as well as getting a solid QB. 

 

18 minutes ago, humpback said:

Nonsense. If they keep him and he sucks again you can say goodbye to any draft pick compensation (and more cap space in 2022).

There’s always a market for a young, once promising looking QB. For a recent example, see every QB ever traded. 

Culpepper, Cassel, Palmer, Cutler, Foles, Bradford, Garapolo etc etc. 

The cap also will also begin to normalize next year as well. So if he sucked and still wanted out ye could redo his deal at that time. 

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10 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:
 

You’re paying for the talent and you’re hoping, like many do, that the performance suppresses value enough for you to give less to acquire it.  You already know he’s a buy low. If you know this you can’t be on the wrong end of it unless you feel like he is done as a player. The person who would think that (Howie) has done an awful job at evaluating talent so take that all FWIW. You don’t willingly go to the woodshed. 

 

You’re also not the guy who would look at the sticker price of a car as an insulting asking price as well. There’s more than enough analogies and chances are you’ve negotiated a bunch in your life already. The thought that it’s “crazy” to ask for two first round picks is what’s actually crazy. 

The Colts are close and the head coach believes Player A is what gets them back in the SB. It’s foolish to not attempt to make that happen or try. Is a Super Bowl trip worth 2 first round picks to you? Obviously that assumes Reich likes Wentz as much as we think. You need to look no further than Tannehill for how important coaching is as well as getting a solid QB. 

 

There’s always a market for a young, once promising looking QB. For a recent example, see every QB ever traded. 

Culpepper, Cassel, Palmer, Cutler, Foles, Bradford, Garapolo etc etc. 

The cap also will also begin to normalize next year as well. So if he sucked and still wanted out ye could redo his deal at that time. 

Perhaps you are right and if the Colts love Wentz they probably should consider give up more than the #21, but you also have to consider that the Colts should try and pay as little as possible.  This is a two way street.  They have some leverage giving his performance and situation in Philly and that awful contract.  If the Colts are willing to take that contract off Philly's hands, then IMO it would be foolish not to use that as leverage in their trade talks.  In other words, don't take the contract and give up the farm.  To me, that would be stupid.  You said, and I paraphrase, "that if Wentz gets them to the SB isn't 2 first round picks worth it?".  Yes, it would be worth it, but that is a BIG IF.  Ballard needs to do some good negotiation and not give up the farm and take on his full contract.

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Perhaps you are right and if the Colts love Wentz they probably should consider give up more than the #21, but you also have to consider that the Colts should try and pay as little as possible.  This is a two way street.  They have some leverage giving his performance and situation in Philly and that awful contract.  If the Colts are willing to take that contract off Philly's hands, then IMO it would be foolish not to use that as leverage in their trade talks.  In other words, don't take the contract and give up the farm.  To me, that would be stupid.  You said, and I paraphrase, "that if Wentz gets them to the SB isn't 2 first round picks worth it?".  Yes, it would be worth it, but that is a BIG IF.  Ballard needs to do some good negotiation and not give up the farm and take on his full contract.

I agree 100%. This is what makes their negotiations interesting, in my opinion. What will decide it is how long the need for a QB lasts. We don’t need a QB, Indy does and IF the HC thinks he’s getting a good one there’s internal pressure as well because you guys are close. 

Right now I think Indy waits until we get closer to his roster bonus and they should. There’s still plenty of time before FA and the draft. 

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14 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Think outside the box for a minute. If you are trying to get a better QB eventually, maybe starting Wentz for another season and failing miserably is the way to go.

I don’t see that going over well in any city let alone Philadelphia.

11 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Youre right, the contract is bad and if we move on we eat the highest dead cap hit in the history of the game. So for 2 second round picks, why deal a relatively young QB, who’s shown talent? Just cause?

And if you don’t move him but he isn’t your starting QB, it’s still, in a sense, dead money. 

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1 minute ago, 3nOut said:

And if you don’t move him but he isn’t your starting QB, it’s still, in a sense, dead money. 

Correct, however, you still have the player if needed. Taking a monumental cap hit, when the cap is lower, for him to be elsewhere is bad all around. 

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1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:
You’re paying for the talent and you’re hoping, like many do, that the performance suppresses value enough for you to give less to acquire it.  You already know he’s a buy low. If you know this you can’t be on the wrong end of it unless you feel like he is done as a player. The person who would think that (Howie) has done an awful job at evaluating talent so take that all FWIW. You don’t willingly go to the woodshed. 

There’s always a market for a young, once promising looking QB. For a recent example, see every QB ever traded. 

Culpepper, Cassel, Palmer, Cutler, Foles, Bradford, Garapolo etc etc. 

The cap also will also begin to normalize next year as well. So if he sucked and still wanted out ye could redo his deal at that time. 

He's a "buy low" from his peak but not from his current season. Giving up 2 2nd rounders plus paying him that contract already prices in a good amount of improvement as no one would pay anything for the QB who was on the field last year.

How many of those guys were coming off a season of being (arguably) the worst QB in the NFL AND had a massive contract?

If he sucked again and wanted out, he's not going to rework his deal to make things better for Philly. If the reports are true, he's worth 2 future 2nd's right now (and that's only to 1 team). If he stays in Philly and sucks again there would be zero market, they'd have to pay someone to take him off their hands. I mean, I think most NFL GM's would prefer Goff to Wentz right now, and the reports are that they had to pay extra for Detroit to take him and his similarly bad contract. And that's without one more disastrous season in this hypothetical scenario. He'd lose all value with another bad year, I don't see how that's even debatable.

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