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2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Ertz to see him go, but it had to be done


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33 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

Well, at #6 - 

Top two QB's are certainly gone (Lawrence and Wilson)

So, I think the only two that have a case there are Fields and Trey Lance.  I don't think they want the drama around another North Dakota QB this year (even if its the right pick as they are different players, I think it creates a whole mess of comparisons and expectations we dont want)

 

So - it would be Fields vs Chase/Smith vs Surtain most likely.

 

I would probably not go QB, and instead sign a vet to compete with Hurts. This team isnt going to be able to support a rookie QB, and getting a top offensive talent at 6 to put in place first seems ideal. You get a year of development, a year to evaluate Hurts, a year to see if your Oline can stabilize - and next year, you are in a MUCH better cap position, and can sign some talent to put around a rookie QB next year (if Hurts doesnt look the part).

I agree with this.  My theory is that if Hurts plays well you don't need another QB and if he doesn't they should have a high enough pick to get a good one in 2022.  The roster doesn't have enough talent for Hurts to be mediocre or worse and still win enough games to draft outside the top 5-10.

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Yea if we trade Wentz, I absolutely do not want a QB at 6. Evaluate Hurts for the year. Get a stud at either WR or CB. 2 positions we've been really bad at for almost a decade. 

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7 minutes ago, Insein said:

Yea if we trade Wentz, I absolutely do not want a QB at 6. Evaluate Hurts for the year. Get a stud at either WR or CB. 2 positions we've been really bad at for almost a decade. 

I agree with this and still can’t believe how fast this situation seems to be progressing. They better get a good return. 

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On Wentz...I think he can improve, but to do so, he needs to really address what the issues are. Accuracy, read the defense, get rid of the ball quicker, etc... He has the physical skills to throw it (although maybe not the mobility anymore), so his game needs to adjust from what it was in 2017 pre-injuries.

The question - will he address those issues? Or will he blame the supporting staff, the Oline, the receivers, the coaches, etc...  Given his lack of statements and apparently really wanting out, I am not convinced he truly knows what he needs to change. Which means, while he might not be as bad as he was in 2020, he's not going to be good. In which case, it's probably better to cut our losses and move on. If a team will trade us something for him - take it and go. Whether his career lasts another 2-3 years or another 8 years is up to him at this point. Unfortunately I think the 2-3 is more likely.

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1 hour ago, nittanylion said:

Anyone in here have anything positive to say about Jalen Reagor and his dynasty outlook moving forward?

I wish I was asking for a friend, but I'm not...

Reagor's an atrocious route runner but i'm wondering, if Wentz went kerflooey the way he appears to have and the coaches couldnt regain control of it except to stop calling plays to Carson's "eye guy", Travis Fulgham, because of his practice habits, with DJax sniping & griping 'round the fray like he always does and Alshon spraining his eyelash if he blinks too much, etc etc, whether the kid shouldnt get a mulligan for his rookie season. not sure the new coachstaff is better, but...

Edited by wikkidpissah
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I’m not saying we HAVE to pick a QB at 6 but if you deal Wentz it enters the equation. 

Depending on the deal they get back, if they can walk away with Chase and Surtain/Farley it would really cushion the blow. 

Id also like a back RB with actual talent as well. 

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1 hour ago, GoBirds said:

I agree with this and still can’t believe how fast this situation seems to be progressing. They better get a good return

Just don't expect a 2nd again like the way you guys fleeced my Redskins trading us an old broken down McNabb. :wall:

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

Just don't expect a 2nd again like the way you guys fleeced my Redskins trading us an old broken down McNabb. :wall:

The range of my expectations is is giving away multiple picks to get rid of the contract to getting multiple 1sr round picks because teams still value Wentz lol

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3 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

Reagor's an atrocious route runner but i'm wondering, if Wentz went kerflooey the way he appears to have and the coaches couldnt regain control of it except to stop calling plays to Carson's "eye guy", Travis Fulgham, because of his practice habits, with DJax sniping & griping 'round the fray like he always does and Alshon spraining his eyelash if he blinks too much, etc etc, whether the kid shouldnt get a mulligan for his rookie season. not sure the new coachstaff is better, but...

There are some routes Reagor runs well, he was winning on posts consistently in the last few weeks.  He’s very inconsistent in things like when to turn for the ball and get his hands up, he’s early and late on those often.

Usage was the biggest problem IMO, hopefully the new staff does a better job asking players generally to work to their strengths.  That said, if the Eagles are going with Hurts as the starter next year, he doesn’t have the kind of arm strength to make best use of a vertical WR.

The biggest risk with him is he doesn’t seem to have a great attitude / work ethic.

 

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4 hours ago, Insein said:

Yea if we trade Wentz, I absolutely do not want a QB at 6. Evaluate Hurts for the year. Get a stud at either WR or CB. 2 positions we've been really bad at for almost a decade. 

If the right QB was there, we should definitely take him, but since it looks like a choice between Fields and Lance (at best), waiting would be better.

That said, if I was the Jets, I’d make a big run at Dak Prescott (if the Cowboys don’t / can‘t afford to franchise him again).  If that happens, I might feel differently.

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Just came across some #’s and while I know he’s gone it could really suck. Yes he was bad last year in 12 games but when you look at that potential and than Google the WR’s he had during this time, it will not be shocking if he excels somewhere else next year. Unless it’s Chicago lol

From 2017-2019, Carson Wentz ranked:

8th in QBR
8th in QB Rate
10th in TD%
7th in INT%  

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4 hours ago, Insein said:

Yea if we trade Wentz, I absolutely do not want a QB at 6. Evaluate Hurts for the year. Get a stud at either WR or CB. 2 positions we've been really bad at for almost a decade. 

 

6 minutes ago, Ash said:

If the right QB was there, we should definitely take him, but since it looks like a choice between Fields and Lance (at best), waiting would be better.

That said, if I was the Jets, I’d make a big run at Dak Prescott (if the Cowboys don’t / can‘t afford to franchise him again).  If that happens, I might feel differently.

My biggest issue is the guy who is picking the “right” QB. We’ve seen how Hurts looked and if Wentz is the bad QB people say, do we want Howie picking another one so early?

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5 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

My biggest issue is the guy who is picking the “right” QB. We’ve seen how Hurts looked and if Wentz is the bad QB people say, do we want Howie picking another one so early?

I don't think Howie can be blamed for coaching. He evaluated talent and then picks it. By all measures both are very talented. 

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Just now, Insein said:

I don't think Howie can be blamed for coaching. He evaluated talent and then picks it. By all measures both are very talented. 

That’s true. 

I really do wish I could be a fly on the wall for these drafts. I can’t get the part out of my head when Lurie said something about being there the discussions and hearing who wanted who essentially. We just really need this draft to supply some studs. The cap will clear just in time for us to be able to build around hopefully a young talented team. 

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1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

My biggest issue is the guy who is picking the “right” QB. We’ve seen how Hurts looked and if Wentz is the bad QB people say, do we want Howie picking another one so early?

Howie’s making the pick no matter what position, so 🤷‍♂️

The fact that they made a mistake picking Hurts in the 2nd last year shouldn’t stop them picking a QB again, if it’s the right one.

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1 hour ago, Insein said:

I don't think Howie can be blamed for coaching. He evaluated talent and then picks it. By all measures both are very talented. 

Not sure I agree with that evaluation of Hurts, he has a mediocre arm and significant issues with accuracy and decision making.  He was worse in accuracy metrics than Wentz last year, we just had higher expectations for Carson.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2020_advanced.htm

Look at the accuracy tab in the advanced passing stats.

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52 minutes ago, Ash said:

Not sure I agree with that evaluation of Hurts, he has a mediocre arm and significant issues with accuracy and decision making.  He was worse in accuracy metrics than Wentz last year, we just had higher expectations for Carson.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2020_advanced.htm

Look at the accuracy tab in the advanced passing stats.

I'm not saying Hurts is great but he has talent. Just different areas. He's a guy that can be a top 15 QB if he has good coaching around him. He can be a winning QB with good coaching and decent weapons to use. We've seen a lot of guys like that in the league. 

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1 hour ago, Ash said:

Not sure I agree with that evaluation of Hurts, he has a mediocre arm and significant issues with accuracy and decision making.  He was worse in accuracy metrics than Wentz last year, we just had higher expectations for Carson.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2020_advanced.htm

Look at the accuracy tab in the advanced passing stats.

Jesus. 60% on-target throws? If that's legit, that's bad. Like - no one else with significant attempts is below 70%.

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Just came across some #’s and while I know he’s gone it could really suck. Yes he was bad last year in 12 games but when you look at that potential and than Google the WR’s he had during this time, it will not be shocking if he excels somewhere else next year. Unless it’s Chicago lol

From 2017-2019, Carson Wentz ranked:

8th in QBR
8th in QB Rate
10th in TD%
7th in INT%  

Man this is crazy, can’t believe we are at where we are at. 🤯

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On 2/5/2021 at 10:49 AM, Bigboy10182000 said:

Andy Reid made an OL coach a DC so he could get the hell out of here. Now we have a franchise QB trying to force his way out.

As @SheilKapadia noted on the Birds With Friends podcast, Andy Reid's worst 3 year stretch of his career (& only 2-yr playoff drought) coincided with Howie Roseman's tenure as GM. Sample size caveat, but notable that Howie is the only GM to make a HoF coach look pedestrian.

How the hell is he still here man!? 

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From Rob Maaddi:

Former #Eagles player told me: “Doug wasn’t the problem. Carson isn’t the problem. The PROBLEM is still there.” This feeling has been expressed to me by several others recently. More people around the league have shared similar thoughts with me over the past week in Tampa.

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12 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Rob Maaddi:

Former #Eagles player told me: “Doug wasn’t the problem. Carson isn’t the problem. The PROBLEM is still there.” This feeling has been expressed to me by several others recently. More people around the league have shared similar thoughts with me over the past week in Tampa.

Don’t disagree. Given Howie was telling the HC who to activate/deactivate on game days, how empowered would Doug be to forcefully coach the guy who Howie paid $128M while mounting a life sized Wentz poster in his office?

Edited by JetMaxx
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18 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Rob Maaddi:

Former #Eagles player told me: “Doug wasn’t the problem. Carson isn’t the problem. The PROBLEM is still there.” This feeling has been expressed to me by several others recently. More people around the league have shared similar thoughts with me over the past week in Tampa.

Yeah, maybe there was a time Howie was ahead fo the curve but that has clearly passed and Lurie can’t take his blinders off. 

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41 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Rob Maaddi:

Former #Eagles player told me: “Doug wasn’t the problem. Carson isn’t the problem. The PROBLEM is still there.” This feeling has been expressed to me by several others recently. More people around the league have shared similar thoughts with me over the past week in Tampa.

Did Howie make carson turn the ball over amd/or get sacked on almost every drive? 

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19 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Kind of? He surrounded him with all those players and coaches. 

There’s plenty of failure to go around in the team’s poor season and Wentz regression.  Doug is gone, Carson soon will be and Howie is bulletproof.

Nobody is saying he is solely to blame, he is just the only one to escape accountability for his share of the mistakes.

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1 hour ago, JetMaxx said:

Don’t disagree. Given Howie was telling the HC who to activate/deactivate on game days, how empowered would Doug be to forcefully coach the guy who Howie paid $128M while mounting a life sized Wentz poster in his office?

Doug should have brought that crap to a head while he still had some juice, not after a 4 win season.  

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6 minutes ago, Ash said:

Howie is bulletproof.


I’d bet money he’s gone after this year. I think he’s only back to fix the cap mess he created.

 

1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Rob Maaddi:

Former #Eagles player told me: “Doug wasn’t the problem. Carson isn’t the problem. The PROBLEM is still there.” This feeling has been expressed to me by several others recently. More people around the league have shared similar thoughts with me over the past week in Tampa.

And I should have added more context to this one. A former player bashing the team surly has an axe to grind as well, so take that FWIW

 

5 minutes ago, Ash said:

Doug should have brought that crap to a head while he still had some juice, not after a 4 win season.  

Definitely. I mentioned it a bunch but I thought Doug should have been coaching with “F U money” but he coached scared more and more after the SB. So strange. 

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20 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

Definitely. I mentioned it a bunch but I thought Doug should have been coaching with “F U money” but he coached scared more and more after the SB. So strange. 

When Doug’s assistant coaches were fired by Howie without his knowledge the season before, he likely said WTF/hands in the air when Howie made game day calls. 

Edited by JetMaxx
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As a Skins fan looking from the outside in to your situation, I can’t help but have deja vu.

Much like Bruce Allen positioned himself as the Rasputin to our idiot owner, it seems like Howie has cast a similar spell on Lurie. No matter the changes at coach or QB, it still comes down to Howie’s influence on the franchise. I think until he is purged him from the organization, much like the Skins finally did with Allen, the Eagles will find themselves in NFL purgatory.

As for Wentz, I think the rumored desire to land a first (if not multiple firsts) is laughable. The guy has an atrocious contract and, at best, a temporary case of the yips. At worst you are trading for damaged goods that will never recover. The Eagles should consider themselves lucky if they don’t have to include draft comp to move him like the Rams had to with Goff.

Edited by Johnny Utah #9
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On 1/16/2021 at 8:08 PM, Bigboy10182000 said:

 

On 1/16/2021 at 8:27 PM, Bigboy10182000 said:

“Howie Roseman had a life-sized poster of Carson Wentz in his office at the NovaCare Complex. It still might be there, but before COVID-19 placed restrictions on Eagles staffers’ movements, when anyone walked into the general manager’s office, there up on the wall was Wentz in action.

The decal -- like a Fathead a fan might plaster in his or her bedroom -- became an inside joke among some staff about Roseman’s overt affection for the Eagles’ franchise quarterback. But it also became a symbol for his misdirected handling of an employee.“

Crazy lol

@JetMaxx

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6 minutes ago, Johnny Utah #9 said:

The guy has an atrocious contract

He has cap hits of:

2021: $25.4M (GTD)
2022: $22M ($15M GTD 3/19)
2023: $27M
2024: $26M

If a team gets the below for a 1 it’s hard to argue it was too much to give up if he returns to that level. That’s a 40 game sample compared to 12, I think many will look at the 40. The picks still have to be made and who knows who we’d get  

From 2017-2019, Carson Wentz ranked:

8th in QBR
8th in QB Rate
10th in TD%
7th in INT%  

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10 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

Reagor's an atrocious route runner but i'm wondering, if Wentz went kerflooey the way he appears to have and the coaches couldnt regain control of it except to stop calling plays to Carson's "eye guy", Travis Fulgham, because of his practice habits, with DJax sniping & griping 'round the fray like he always does and Alshon spraining his eyelash if he blinks too much, etc etc, whether the kid shouldnt get a mulligan for his rookie season. not sure the new coachstaff is better, but...

I thought Reagor looked good at times. You could see the explosiveness there. Between COVID, O-line issues, Wentz' sucktitude, and an injury that hampered him early.....yeah, he absolutely deserves a pass.

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“Source is telling me Bears deal for Wentz is close. Foles is speculated to be included with another offensive player and a first rounder.”

If this F’ing dude brings Foles back I will lose my ####. I am not a Hurts guy but JFC if he’s the guy let him be the guy. 

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3 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

He has cap hits of:

2021: $25.4M (GTD)
2022: $22M ($15M GTD 3/19)
2023: $27M
2024: $26M

If a team gets the below for a 1 it’s hard to argue it was too much to give up if he returns to that level. That’s a 40 game sample compared to 12, I think many will look at the 40. The picks still have to be made and who knows who we’d get  

From 2017-2019, Carson Wentz ranked:

8th in QBR
8th in QB Rate
10th in TD%
7th in INT%  

I’m assuming most NFL GMs (at least the good ones) aren’t willing to pay a premium for past performance. A GM can’t objectively look at Wentz this last season and not see at least some potential red flags. And if all this chatter that Wentz is very tough to coach is remotely true, that complicates matters either further. And this isn’t even considering the durability concerns. Best case for you guys would be Frank Reich bites and deals the Colts 1st for him, thinking he can fix him. As a Skins fan, I would be furious if they offered the 19 or even their 2nd round pick for him. Although I doubt that would happen anyway considering it’s within the division and considering how you guys already ripped us off on the McNabb trade. 

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3 hours ago, GoBirds said:
7 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Just came across some #’s and while I know he’s gone it could really suck. Yes he was bad last year in 12 games but when you look at that potential and than Google the WR’s he had during this time, it will not be shocking if he excels somewhere else next year. Unless it’s Chicago lol

From 2017-2019, Carson Wentz ranked:

8th in QBR
8th in QB Rate
10th in TD%
7th in INT%  

Expand   Expand  

Man this is crazy, can’t believe we are at where we are at. 🤯

Me either, but it's a big part of why I still believe in Wentz and hope they can get this worked out

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7 minutes ago, Balco said:

If any gm is dumb enough to give up a first for wentz it’s definitely Pace.

:shrug: I think he's definitely worth a first. Teams spend 1sts ALL THE TIME on unproven QBs....who often fail. This is a guy who not so long ago made a legitimate run at an MVP title. I get the contract issues, but also get that if he returns to even just 2019 levels he's not that expensive. The cap hit to another team simply isn't that bad with Philly eating much of the bonuses.

Saying that....there's certainly too much risk to justify a high first or multiple firsts. Indy's #1 feels about right to me....and that's a team and situation that would be perfect for Wentz to walk into and succeed. Chicago.....isn't.

 

 

ETA: Still don't want him moved at all. 

Edited by renesauz
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16 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

“Source is telling me Bears deal for Wentz is close. Foles is speculated to be included with another offensive player and a first rounder.”

If this F’ing dude brings Foles back I will lose my ####. I am not a Hurts guy but JFC if he’s the guy let him be the guy. 

Agree. Draft picks only. You can get mediocre player for cheap on the open market. 
 

No offence Nick, we’ll always have 2017 (and 2013), but it didn’t work out and I don’t want you back. 
 

Tarik Cohen is the other name I’ve heard which would be almost as dumb. I’d rather have extra picks, even late rounders that that. 

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  • The Noid changed the title to 2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Ertz to see him go, but it had to be done
  • The Noid changed the title to 2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Watching this season with “Yakety Sax” as the soundtrack is the only way to make it enjoyable.

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