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***Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*** - Bad day to be a Brandon, good day to be Bart Scott’s eyebrow.


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From Rob Masddi:

Direct response from a team official about a report that the best offer the #Eagles got for Carson Wentz was two second-round picks plus a potential 3rd or 4th: “We made a better offer.” I wasn’t told what the “better” offer entailed. Stay tuned. ...

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41 minutes ago, humpback said:

He's a "buy low" from his peak but not from his current season. Giving up 2 2nd rounders plus paying him that contract already prices in a good amount of improvement as no one would pay anything for the QB who was on the field last year.

How many of those guys were coming off a season of being (arguably) the worst QB in the NFL AND had a massive contract?

If he sucked again and wanted out, he's not going to rework his deal to make things better for Philly. If the reports are true, he's worth 2 future 2nd's right now (and that's only to 1 team). If he stays in Philly and sucks again there would be zero market, they'd have to pay someone to take him off their hands. I mean, I think most NFL GM's would prefer Goff to Wentz right now, and the reports are that they had to pay extra for Detroit to take him and his similarly bad contract. And that's without one more disastrous season in this hypothetical scenario. He'd lose all value with another bad year, I don't see how that's even debatable.

Exactly, so do you think NFL GM’s look at the last 12 games or his entire body of work? Will NFL coaches and GM’s factor in supporting cast and coaching? Will the look at movement and arm talent? Will they talk to him to see how he feels? It’s absolutely ridiculous to think people in these positions will look at just last year and nothing more. His overall body of work point to a QB that has the potential to be a top 10 guy in the league  

You’re moving the goal posts here. If a QB is young and people feel they have talent there is absolutely a market for them. It’s not even debatable. The massive contract is not massive if you believe you’re getting a top QB. If Indy/Bears etc want him to start it’s with the belief he can play well. QB’s that play well, make that kind of money. If they don’t believe he can play well and isn’t worth the money, what do they do? They don’t bother. By your logic, since he was the worst QB than the Bears are cool with Foles and Mitch and Brissett is fine as well, but signs don’t point that way, do they?

There is not a single person here that thought Stafford would get the return he did. Why is that? This isn’t fantasy football. 

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14 hours ago, humpback said:

I know you guys are passionate about your team and all, but I find it hard to believe that you really think 2 2nd rounders for a guy who was one of the worst QB's in the NFL last year and has an albatross of a contract is an awful offer. I mean, the market is what the market is, and there are reasons why no one is beating down your door for him.

Honestly Reich seems to have a pretty big ego, I'd take advantage of it before someone talks some sense into him.

You can literally cut the guy next year if he doesn't do well. Also compared to the other QBs available he's most QBs available his overall resume outside of Stafford and Goff is still pretty successful compared to the others on the market. And that doesn't include Watson because I have a feeling HOU is gonna try to attempt to keep him against his will and Prescott I think get at least franchised by Dal because its not like they have another option at this point. As you'll see based on whats out there and what success in their career they've had teams outside of drafting one of the top guys there isn't a lot of good options. We're talking Wentz here who was a former MVP QB until he got hurt. Not only did he decline but the whole team so some teams might see that from a coaching issue more then the player. 

Lets look at the guys available per FA/Trade now 

Carr: Overall has been inconsistent. Still a fairly decent player. Based on what OAK wants for him to facilitate a Watson trade not really worth giving all that up IMHO. I like Carr but at a lower price. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick: Fitzmagic I think has finally run out. Serviceable short term starter good back up 

Mitch Trubisky: If you are looking at him to start for you then your team has bigger issues 

Nick Foles: We in Philly (at least those not swinging off his junk constantly) know he's a really good back up and a serviceable reliever to come in for a few games if you main guy goes down. Shouldn't be viewed as a starter at this point in his career. 

Teddy Bridgewater: Ok player consistently avg though. Hasn't been the same since the knee injury. Serviceable stop gap bridge for anyone who may want to draft a guy in the next year or two and let the guy sit for a year.

Jamis Winston: Major off the field issues in college and FSU covered up two sexual assault cases against him as well as another claim from an Uber driver in Arizona not long ago. Never has shown great accuracy at the NFL level. Ton of baggage. Can throw for a lot of yards but how much was that do to the REC he had in TB. Also Consider he just left TB and they did a 180 with TB12 and won a SB what does that say about Winston? SHould've at least been a WC contender with Winston. Does the baggage outweigh the talent or vice versa? 

Andy Dalton: The Ginger Rifle had a decent 2020 but again at this point in his career he's a serviceable stop gap. Not a guy for a team looking for SB aspirations. Another good player to use if you want to develop a younger QB behind him 

Cam Newtown: Former MVP but he's clearly done. Had a good year in terms of character in NE but if this guy can't do well under BB you probably should hang it up. he's lost most of his arm strength and it's just sad and embarrassing watching him 

Jacoby Brisset: I think Indy will bring him back as a back up to whoever they get if he comes on a reasonable deal. I liked Jacoby in College but in the NFL he's a back up. If the Eagles Trade Wentz and keep Hurts and allow Sudfield to go I could see him coming in to back up Hurt if the price is reasonable considering the connection with Brisset and Coach SIrianni 

Jimmy G: Injury Prone at this point. I still like his potential if a QB needy team wants to buy low. Not sure what SF asking price will be but if it's reasonable its worth a shot

Sam Darnold: I was never really a big fan. Hasn't been great in the NFL. Some teams might say its the Adam Gase effect. I can't say for sure given I didn't watch much of NYJ. Still Young enough to develop into something but not a guy for a team looking at SB aspirations 

Tyrod Taylor: Ultimate team player outside of Fitzy. Got a raw deal in LAC with the medical staff. He's a serviceable player but again another avg stop gap QB. 

AJ McCarron: Career Back up 

Colt McCoy: Career back up with starter experience 

RG3: Started for Lamar Jackson when hurt but was benched for very punchable face Trace McSorely. Decent back up not sure what he has left. Happy RG3 was humbled at this level and came back and competed though as a team player 

Matt Barkley: Uh pretty disastrous NFL career. Eagles fans will remember this guy from the Kelly Era and his debut was something that was uh lets just say very forgetful. Probably shouldn't even be in the league 

Nate Sudefield: I like his competitiveness and he's Nick Foles long lost twin (Seriously look at a Foles/Suddy comparison photo and tell me these two aren't related), serviceable back up. Teams seem to like the kid. 

Joe Flacco: Wrong side of 30. I always liked the Local guy but his career is winding down 

Cj Beatherd: Started a few games in SF over the last few yrs thanks to Jimmy G's injuries. Lets just say I think SF fans will be happy to see him leave. 

Blaine Gabbert: Back Up SB winning QB. Off and on starter through his career. Couldn't solidify himself over Colin Kaepernick as the starter when both were in SF all those years ago. Back Up 

Geno Smith: One of the more overhyped prospects over the years at the position. Never materialized into anything 

Mike Glennon: Has made a lot of money for a lot of suckitude. Starter experience back up 

Brian Hoyer: Ok Back up another one of those team guys. 

 

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6 hours ago, renesauz said:

Not quite accurate. If Philly trades him Philly eats a huge piece of that contract (bonus money is the issue). The contract is rough for the Eagles no matter what they do....it's not bad at all for any team RECEIVING him.

I can see why someone would say second round picks are fair, but I'm not so sure that those are enough to justify the dead money cap hit for the Eagles. ON the flip side....that would be an absolute STEAL for the receiving team if he recovers back to 2019 levels, let alone 2018. That offer isn't awful....but it's a long way from generous

Yeah I don't get that at all. The Eagles would be eating a large sum of that. Not only that but consider the cap hit as well for the dead money. Considering what the Eagles are eating and the receiving team Pays very little and can release him if he sucks without having to worry about huge chunks a year or 2 from now, it makes sense for the Eagles to want MORE THEN two 2's. 

This is no different then a baseball. Say the Phillies had Traded Ryan Howard's big deal when he struggled. The Phillies offer to eat most of the money. That means they should be allowed to ask for Better value then had they not eaten such a large portion. 

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4 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I could see the Colts offering their #21 and eat his contract, because they can afford it.  Its my understanding Philly is in cap hell, so eating his contract probably isn't an option and if their trading partner has to take on that contract, then Philly won't get as much for Wentz.

The Eagles aren't getting much cap savings to begin with this season for trading him now. I think it's like a bit over $825K. Not that much. We save very little getting rid of Wentz. It'd be future cap space we save from his cap hit not being here. 

Also we have $22M-$25M (depending on where you read) in free cap space that will carry over to next year. Leaving us with $40M over the cap. That can be easily done for this team. The god thing for the Eagles is we got a ton of casualty options to offload either by trade or cutting or restructuring deals. A few guys like Hargraves and Cox deals we could restructure. Trading or cutting Ertz, extending or cutting (June 1st Designation)/Trade Derek Barnett, Cutting both Jackson and Jeffreys with June 1st designations, etc. 

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1 minute ago, DJackson10 said:

The Eagles aren't getting much cap savings to begin with this season for trading him now. I think it's like a bit over $825K. Not that much. We save very little getting rid of Wentz. It'd be future cap space we save from his cap hit not being here. 

 

Which is important in leverage to consider by any team wishing to trade for Wentz. Add that into his recent performance the Eagles have to be realistic when it comes to his value.  They are not going into 2021 with him on their team if they can help it.

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4 hours ago, The Noid said:

lso, this is past the point of "just bring him back." He doesn't want to be back and he won't come back. If there were any chance he was open to it, the new coaching staff would have been that opportunity. It's no coincidence that the trade talks started heating up when they did. He's obviously made it clear that the new coach didn't change anything for him so the team is now trying to get what they can for him.

Has he though? All we've heard are rumors and speculation. No one knows for 100% fact he wants to be traded. Hell Rob Maddi who I'd trust over anyone with Wentz said he was still thinking over his future not long ago but was in constant contact with Lurie. Someone else speculated that Lurie may have told Wentz we can look to trade you but if we don't get what we feel is good value we will keep you type deal. His agent or anyone in his circle has said he doesn't want to be here. Rob Maddi tweeted as well that after Doug was fired Wentz preferred to stay here and not uproot his family, his foundation and everything else he's done in the community as well. 

The Whole "He doesn't want to be back and won't come back." seems like just speculation or hopeful thinking right now from those wanting him gone. 

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4 hours ago, modogg said:

if our cap situation wasn't so F'd up with all of these bloated contracts for old vets, i would love to see JJ Watt come here to Philly to play along side Fletcher Cox. I doubt his motivation is money right now, an you would think he would love to play next to a stud DL that gets double'd and triple'd sometimes. 

think the Eagles are like 0% chance to get him, but man that would be fun

I was thinking about this when I saw it. Jesus that would be unfair to the QBs. Lane is already working his recruiting it seems online. 

Also how bad of an org do you have to be like HOU that your 3 top stars wanted out in 18 months? 

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2 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

Has he though? All we've heard are rumors and speculation. No one knows for 100% fact he wants to be traded. Hell Rob Maddi who I'd trust over anyone with Wentz said he was still thinking over his future not long ago but was in constant contact with Lurie. Someone else speculated that Lurie may have told Wentz we can look to trade you but if we don't get what we feel is good value we will keep you type deal. His agent or anyone in his circle has said he doesn't want to be here. Rob Maddi tweeted as well that after Doug was fired Wentz preferred to stay here and not uproot his family, his foundation and everything else he's done in the community as well. 

The Whole "He doesn't want to be back and won't come back." seems like just speculation or hopeful thinking right now from those wanting him gone. 

I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to be on a team that doesn't view him as their starting QB.  If he does, then I wouldn't want someone like that anyway.

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3 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

All we've heard are rumors and speculation. No one knows for 100% fact he wants to be traded.

Nah, these are not rumors and speculation. It's a known fact the Eagles are trying to trade him, teams are calling, making offers, etc. That's not because the Eagles want to move him. I can say with 100% certainty the team would rather not take the cap hit and admit such a massive blunder of a situation. There are zero reasons a team that just overhauled the coaching staff, wants to rebuild, has a potential franchise QB who may have just had a down year and they can build a new system around, and that they just signed to a massive extension 18 months ago would want to move him. So the fact that they are, in 100% true fact, trying to trade him means it's at his request.

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Just now, The Noid said:

Nah, these are not rumors and speculation. It's a known fact the Eagles are trying to trade him, teams are calling, making offers, etc. That's not because the Eagles want to move him. I can say with 100% certainty the team would rather not take the cap hit and admit such a massive blunder of a situation. There are zero reasons a team that just overhauled the coaching staff, wants to rebuild, has a potential franchise QB who may have just had a down year and they can build a new system around, and that they just signed to a massive extension 18 months ago would want to move him. So the fact that they are, in 100% true fact, trying to trade him means it's at his request.

And, he doesn't need to publicly say anything, like Watson. If he's made it clear to the team, and they are trying to trade him, why does he need to come out and state he want's to be traded? Stay quiet, let it play out, then post a generic "thanks for the memories Philadelphia" Instagram post once it's done. 

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

There’s no upside and hasn’t been for a while to say anything. 

-Can’t say you want to be back and tell your agent you don’t. He doesn’t strike me as that type of guy anyway

-Can’t say you want out publicly than all leverage is gone and you helped it. And if you stay it’s just completely bad for everyone. 

I don’t know who his agent is to see how they may have handled previous trades out of place, maybe this has been a strategy of his before? Either way I find it odd that there’s nothing concrete fork him or his agent that he wants out but 1% is 1% lol

Ryan Tolliner he's also Jared Goff's agent. Big Ben, Bradin Cooks and our Buddy's BFF Marcus Mariota to name a few. Joe Staley, Mike Iputai, Isaac Seamulo, Andre Dillard, Easton Stick (no surprise I think they mentioned this when Eagles tried to draft him and Wentz introduced them), Mitch Trubisky, Suddy, JJAW, Cooper Kupp, Mac Hollins, Dallas Goedert, Lativuis Murray, James Connor, Takkarist Mckinley, Star Loututeli (SP), Chidobe Awuzie are some other names some would recognize. Only big trades are both former Rams in Cooks and Goff. Cooks has been traded a few times already. 

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1 hour ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Rob Masddi:

Direct response from a team official about a report that the best offer the #Eagles got for Carson Wentz was two second-round picks plus a potential 3rd or 4th: “We made a better offer.” I wasn’t told what the “better” offer entailed. Stay tuned. ...

He added more 

It should be very clear from the wording of my tweet that this is NOT from the Eagles. The tweet clearly states response from a team official saying “WE made a better offer.”

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16 minutes ago, The Noid said:

Nah, these are not rumors and speculation. It's a known fact the Eagles are trying to trade him, teams are calling, making offers, etc. That's not because the Eagles want to move him. I can say with 100% certainty the team would rather not take the cap hit and admit such a massive blunder of a situation. There are zero reasons a team that just overhauled the coaching staff, wants to rebuild, has a potential franchise QB who may have just had a down year and they can build a new system around, and that they just signed to a massive extension 18 months ago would want to move him. So the fact that they are, in 100% true fact, trying to trade him means it's at his request.

 

14 minutes ago, The Noid said:

And, he doesn't need to publicly say anything, like Watson. If he's made it clear to the team, and they are trying to trade him, why does he need to come out and state he want's to be traded? Stay quiet, let it play out, then post a generic "thanks for the memories Philadelphia" Instagram post once it's done. 

I’m standing firm at 1% :lmao:

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53 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Exactly, so do you think NFL GM’s look at the last 12 games or his entire body of work? Will NFL coaches and GM’s factor in supporting cast and coaching? Will the look at movement and arm talent? Will they talk to him to see how he feels? It’s absolutely ridiculous to think people in these positions will look at just last year and nothing more. His overall body of work point to a QB that has the potential to be a top 10 guy in the league  

You’re moving the goal posts here. If a QB is young and people feel they have talent there is absolutely a market for them. It’s not even debatable. The massive contract is not massive if you believe you’re getting a top QB. If Indy/Bears etc want him to start it’s with the belief he can play well. QB’s that play well, make that kind of money. If they don’t believe he can play well and isn’t worth the money, what do they do? They don’t bother. By your logic, since he was the worst QB than the Bears are cool with Foles and Mitch and Brissett is fine as well, but signs don’t point that way, do they?

There is not a single person here that thought Stafford would get the return he did. Why is that? This isn’t fantasy football. 

I'm not sure how else to say it- of course they look at the entire body of work, if they only looked at the last 12 games no one would take him for free. That's my point, 2 second rounders is already pricing in somewhere between awful (last year) and great (2017). Yes, his overall body of work points to a QB that has the potential to be a top 10 guy in the league, but it also points to a QB that has the potential to be one of the worst QBs in the league. His "value" is somewhere in between those two extremes.

I'm not moving the goal posts one iota. You brought up a hypothetical, that if they keep him and he sucks again he wouldn't really lose any value. IMO that's absurd, just like he's already lost a ton of value coming off of one disastrous year he would certainly lose a lot more if he has another- his "body of work" would be a lot worse. Indy and Chicago CLEARLY don't believe they'd be getting a top QB, if they did they would be offering 3-4 first rounders plus for him. They believe, for the right price, he's worth the gamble.

Um, the reason the Lions got what they did for Stafford is because they were paid extra to take Goff, who is at a minimum in the same ballpark as Wentz right now. Literally, the Rams had to pay to get rid of him- did you not hear that?

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27 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Which is important in leverage to consider by any team wishing to trade for Wentz. Add that into his recent performance the Eagles have to be realistic when it comes to his value.  They are not going into 2021 with him on their team if they can help it.

Depends everyone is assuming the Team WANTS TO TRADE HIM or HE WANTS OUT and acting like its a 100% fact. From my perspective with the asking price and what I've heard from sources within the team and two members of the local media with better sources than myself, along with tweets from Rob Manddi (who's a personal friend of Wentz & text constantly) the Team wants to keep him and he'd prefer to stay as he has a lot put in already from a house, wife and kid now, foundation, personal business, etc. Then I've heard that the Jalen Hurts train really isn't rolling like some people think it is for the team. Not a lot of believers and many ORG members prefer Carson to stay.  This all makes a lot of sense when you consider what the Eagles are asking for him. They aren't trading him unless they are blown away at this point. If there were more people who believed Hurts was the guy I could've seen the Colts offer being accepted already especially if he said he Wants out. If that was the case then Wentz would've been gone already IMHO 

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2 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I’m standing firm at 1% :lmao:

I'm the last person to try and dash anyone's hope. Hope is great. So keep holding out hope! 

But for this situation, I've depleted all mine :shrug:

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18 minutes ago, The Noid said:

And, he doesn't need to publicly say anything, like Watson. If he's made it clear to the team, and they are trying to trade him, why does he need to come out and state he want's to be traded? Stay quiet, let it play out, then post a generic "thanks for the memories Philadelphia" Instagram post once it's done. 

I mean I complete understand what you are saying however I also don't think the team really WANTS TO TRADE either. There doesn't seem to be a lot of Hurts fans in the org right now either. Like I said I can see both being gone off the roster with someone completely new in '22. Would not shock me. 

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30 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to be on a team that doesn't view him as their starting QB.  If he does, then I wouldn't want someone like that anyway.

Well here's the thing. There's so many conflicting reports on this. From Doug wanted him to he didn't, to Howie drafted Hurts as he didn't believe in Carson anymore to he did it to please Doug again. I' going off what Ive heard from sources and someone in the media who's very reliable on the Eagles beat who said Hurts isn't viewed as the QB of the future by a lot of people in the org including some higher ups. This tells me many in the Org believe Carson is still the QB as he seems to have a lot of support. There's also been reports from former players and people pointing to the issue being there and without saying it naming the GM Howie Roseman. Lurie and Wentz have a great relationship and Lurie prefers Wentz just based on what Ive heard. 

So really no one knows what's going on. A lot of people are coming out throwing stuff on the wall and hoping their's doesn't smell and sticks in the end. We've heard so many reports from the media at this point they are all this circling back to prior reports and repeating themselves. 

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5 minutes ago, humpback said:

I'm not sure how else to say it- of course they look at the entire body of work, if they only looked at the last 12 games no one would take him for free. That's my point, 2 second rounders is already pricing in somewhere between awful (last year) and great (2017). Yes, his overall body of work points to a QB that has the potential to be a top 10 guy in the league, but it also points to a QB that has the potential to be one of the worst QBs in the league. His "value" is somewhere in between those two extremes.

I'm not moving the goal posts one iota. You brought up a hypothetical, that if they keep him and he sucks again he wouldn't really lose any value. IMO that's absurd, just like he's already lost a ton of value coming off of one disastrous year he would certainly lose a lot more if he has another- his "body of work" would be a lot worse. Indy and Chicago CLEARLY don't believe they'd be getting a top QB, if they did they would be offering 3-4 first rounders plus for him. They believe, for the right price, he's worth the gamble.

Um, the reason the Lions got what they did for Stafford is because they were paid extra to take Goff, who is at a minimum in the same ballpark as Wentz right now. Literally, the Rams had to pay to get rid of him- did you not hear that?

No, his value has yet to be established since there isn’t a done deal. We have no idea what his actual value is at the moment. His value also wouldn’t be in between the middle of top 10 and 32nd as well. No one seeks out a bottom 3rd of the league QB. If a team wants him to start they’re not doing so by being motivated to acquire the 22nd best Qb. The ones who want him will believe in his ability and believe they can maximize his potential. If not for the odd cap year there would be more interested teams. And no just because you value him or believe he can be a top qb doesn’t mean you just spam a team with draft picks lol

Moving the goalposts is what you’ve done with the other QB’s that have been traded. If a QB is young and has shown ability he has value. Just look at Sam Bradford and all the others I mentioned. Look at what people thought of like Teddy Bridgewater for years and years. There’s far too many examples. 

I’m know why the Lions and Rams made the trade, but did anyone here see that coming? That was the question. You, IMO, are looking at this all through more of a fantasy football lens. 

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10 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

Depends everyone is assuming the Team WANTS TO TRADE HIM or HE WANTS OUT and acting like its a 100% fact.

I think the chances are in fact 100% that someone from either Wentz side or Eagles side was feeding the media the info on a trade being imminent. This was reported by to many credible sources, not the sort just making up stuff.

I'm of the strong belief the side putting this info out was the Eagles.

They have 5 weeks to trade him and I would will be extremely surprised if he's not traded.

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15 minutes ago, The Noid said:

I'm the last person to try and dash anyone's hope. Hope is great. So keep holding out hope! 

But for this situation, I've depleted all mine :shrug:

Yeah me too. I’m obviously kidding with the 1% and if I was down to my last $100 I’d put it all on him being gone. You nailed it perfectly with the trio of Barkley, Lindros and Rolen though. It’s still so crazy to me it came to this in such a short period of time. 

3 years ago we had an MVP looking 25 year old QB and a statue of Foles and Doug outside and now all are gone. It’s just crazy. 

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5 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I think the chances are in fact 100% that someone from either Wentz side or Eagles side was feeding the media the info on a trade being imminent. This was reported by to many credible sources, not the sort just making up stuff.

I'm of the strong belief the side putting this info out was the Eagles.

They have 5 weeks to trade him and I would will be extremely surprised if he's not traded.

You can bet its all from the same person too. My point is no one knows for certain who's opinion is what. 

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11 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I think the chances are in fact 100% that someone from either Wentz side or Eagles side was feeding the media the info on a trade being imminent. This was reported by to many credible sources, not the sort just making up stuff.

I'm of the strong belief the side putting this info out was the Eagles.

They have 5 weeks to trade him and I would will be extremely surprised if he's not traded.

And those credible sources were Schefter and Mort and I believe both said “The Eagles are not making calls but they’re answering them”....who knows where we’re at now though 

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17 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

No, his value has yet to be established since there isn’t a done deal. We have no idea what his actual value is at the moment. His value also wouldn’t be in between the middle of top 10 and 32nd as well. No one seeks out a bottom 3rd of the league QB. If a team wants him to start they’re not doing so by being motivated to acquire the 22nd best Qb. The ones who want him will believe in his ability and believe they can maximize his potential. If not for the odd cap year there would be more interested teams. And no just because you value him or believe he can be a top qb doesn’t mean you just spam a team with draft picks lol

Moving the goalposts is what you’ve done with the other QB’s that have been traded. If a QB is young and has shown ability he has value. Just look at Sam Bradford and all the others I mentioned. Look at what people thought of like Teddy Bridgewater for years and years. There’s far too many examples. 

I’m know why the Lions and Rams made the trade, but did anyone here see that coming? That was the question. You, IMO, are looking at this all through more of a fantasy football lens. 

I mean, we have a pretty good idea of how the rest of the NFL values Wentz right now and it's no where near what you want it to be.

Once again you aren't reading the words that I'm writing- it's not believe he "can" be a top QB, it's believe he "is" a top QB. There's no doubt about it, if any teams thought he "was" a top QB, the offers would be multiple 1's plus. When they only think he "can" be top 10, but also "can" be bottom 10, his value is much lower.

Again, I'm not moving any goalposts. You mentioned those other trades, I simply pointed out that they aren't good comps because they weren't QBs coming off of a disastrous season nor did they have an albatross of a contract when they were traded. Apples to boomerangs.

I don't know if anyone saw the Stafford deal coming, but no, that wasn't the question (and I don't see how it's relevant). The question was, and I quote (you), "There is not a single person here that thought Stafford would get the return he did. Why is that?" I answered the "why"- Stafford himself didn't get the return the Lions got, it's because they agreed to take back another questionable QB with a large contract so they were compensated extra for doing so. I mean, if Philly wants to do something similar then I'm sure the return they'll get will be greater, but that wouldn't change the value of the Wentz piece.

You, IMO, are looking at this all through homer lenses.

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Not for nothing. But Wentz was in my town yesterday "Fargo ND'" Him and Easton Stick "Chargers" did a charity event. The grand prize at the event was a huge framed and signed picture of Wentz in an Eagles uniform.

You know what that means???   He's back baby. FLY EAGLES FLY !!! ;)

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1 hour ago, humpback said:

I mean, we have a pretty good idea of how the rest of the NFL values Wentz right now and it's no where near what you want it to be.

Once again you aren't reading the words that I'm writing- it's not believe he "can" be a top QB, it's believe he "is" a top QB. There's no doubt about it, if any teams thought he "was" a top QB, the offers would be multiple 1's plus. When they only think he "can" be top 10, but also "can" be bottom 10, his value is much lower.

Again, I'm not moving any goalposts. You mentioned those other trades, I simply pointed out that they aren't good comps because they weren't QBs coming off of a disastrous season nor did they have an albatross of a contract when they were traded. Apples to boomerangs.

I don't know if anyone saw the Stafford deal coming, but no, that wasn't the question (and I don't see how it's relevant). The question was, and I quote (you), "There is not a single person here that thought Stafford would get the return he did. Why is that?" I answered the "why"- Stafford himself didn't get the return the Lions got, it's because they agreed to take back another questionable QB with a large contract so they were compensated extra for doing so. I mean, if Philly wants to do something similar then I'm sure the return they'll get will be greater, but that wouldn't change the value of the Wentz piece.

You, IMO, are looking at this all through homer lenses.

We’re going around and around. Me, you, insiders etc have no clue, none, how the rest of the league values Wentz. I tried to walk you through it with the Stafford deal. 

It’s the talent you’re trading for, period. If Frank Reich wants him it’s because he believes he can maximize that talent and that he’s getting a good player. If Reich believes he can make Wentz the best QB in the league that does not mean you immediately give numerous first round picks.

Your entire second and third paragraphs are fantasy football. Bradford, the bum that everyone knew he was in fantasy circles still had value through all the injuries and all the bad/mediocre years because he had talent. QB’s who are young and have talent have value. 

There’s nothing homer to be about here. We will see what he goes for and if Howie is truly asking for two 1’s, he’s certainly positioning himself to get at least one. 

Edited by Bigboy10182000
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58 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Not for nothing. But Wentz was in my town yesterday "Fargo ND'" Him and Easton Stick "Chargers" did a charity event. The grand prize at the event was a huge framed and signed picture of Wentz in an Eagles uniform.

You know what that means???   He's back baby. FLY EAGLES FLY !!! ;)

And why did you NOT asking him if he’s coming back?! Lol

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3 hours ago, The Noid said:

And, he doesn't need to publicly say anything, like Watson. If he's made it clear to the team, and they are trying to trade him, why does he need to come out and state he want's to be traded? Stay quiet, let it play out, then post a generic "thanks for the memories Philadelphia" Instagram post once it's done. 

Yes, I don’t get why some fans feel like he “owes” them any public quote? You got fans trashing him and wanting Hurts to start, justifiably so, but he doesn’t owe a statement to anyone. Maybe you want it- but he’s best to just shut up and let his agent work his deal.

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2 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

On a funnier note, our assistant CB coach who signed with The University of Houston, only to leave them for us, has left us to be the CB coach of Alabama. 

Not a good look for loyalty stand point 

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2 hours ago, Wooderson said:

Not for nothing. But Wentz was in my town yesterday "Fargo ND'" Him and Easton Stick "Chargers" did a charity event. The grand prize at the event was a huge framed and signed picture of Wentz in an Eagles uniform.

You know what that means???   He's back baby. FLY EAGLES FLY !!! ;)

Pretty cool. Those 2 have always been close and I think one of the reasons the Eagles wanted Stick was because of their friendship. They share the same agent and both played in the same offense. The Eagles just got too cute by trading down and let another team take Stick. 

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9 hours ago, The Noid said:

To the "Let's just keep him another year if we can't get a good return crowd" the March 19th/3rd league day line in the sand doesn't just affect our 2021 cap. If he's not traded by then it means we also are locked into a 2022 cap hit (even if he's traded after March 19th):

Trading him before March 19th gets every penny of Wentz' contract off the books this cap year and they can move on, free and clear, in 2022 when they will also be free of the dead weight from the Alshon and Malik Jackson contracts (they are both going to be cut) and some others that are coming off or will also be gone (like Ertz, DJax and maybe even Graham.) It makes no sense to be in a "rebuild" mode this year and do things like restructure aging vets to kick the cap can down the road just so you can hang more money from Wentz around your neck, all of which will affect the 2022 cap. 2021 is the purge. It's the ugly, you-feel-nauseous-but-know-you-have-to-puke-before-you-can-start-to-feel-better season.

Also, this is past the point of "just bring him back." He doesn't want to be back and he won't come back. If there were any chance he was open to it, the new coaching staff would have been that opportunity. It's no coincidence that the trade talks started heating up when they did. He's obviously made it clear that the new coach didn't change anything for him so the team is now trying to get what they can for him.

If anyone thinks it's tough in this town already, imagine Wentz coming back after all of this?? The circus it would be, the pressure, the scrutiny, etc. He doesn't want that (and no one would.) So I don't have any doubt that he would threaten to sit out, and actually do it if the team called his bluff. He's not going to want to risk his already injury prone body playing for a team he thinks wronged him and that he doesn't want to play for, even if it means losing money (in holdout fines.) And his agent also wouldn't let him come back and risk it, either. If he is able to turn things around there's at least one more decent contract in his future.

Remember the whole discussion in the 2020 thread late in that disaster of a season about a "0% chance" to win a game not being the same as "some chance" to win. This is past the point of no return. There is a 0% chance Wentz plays another snap for this team. It's the Charles Barkley-Eric Lindros-Scott Rolen trifecta: we're going to get way less than fair value like Barkley, because the team fractured the relationship like Lindros, and the player is miserable playing here like Rolen.

I definitely agree with your take on moving him this year is the optimal solution for everyone involved.

But, Carson is under contract still. And, he hasn't officially said anything about wanting to be traded/moved. If he doesn't get traded, his only options are show up and compete or hold out and not show up, right? I guess he could get a phantom injury and not suit up and still get paid, but that doesn't seem like his style. And a holdout isn't exactly good for him- it tanks his potential value and raises character concerns. He'd be motivated to come in and play at a high level, regardless of all the media speculation, unless he's willing to completely scrap his NFL career.

If he holds out, what happens to the cap hit for the Eagles? I know they don't actually pay him his salary, but are they still on the hook for the contract value for the year, if he's holding out? Bonus money already paid ($35M?} already counted against the cap, but his remaining salary? 

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Yeah me too. I’m obviously kidding with the 1% and if I was down to my last $100 I’d put it all on him being gone. You nailed it perfectly with the trio of Barkley, Lindros and Rolen though. It’s still so crazy to me it came to this in such a short period of time. 

3 years ago we had an MVP looking 25 year old QB and a statue of Foles and Doug outside and now all are gone. It’s just crazy. 

More sad than crazy. Our greatest moment will likely lead to one of our worst. It empowered Lurie and the resurgent Howie. Howie underestimated the psychological fragility of his newly paid franchise QB and a perfect storm of destruction of a franchise QB commenced.

Existing in the shadow of his backup winning the Super Bowl and defeating the GOAT, Wentz sees his GM draft Hurts. COVID hits. Doug is usurped by the GM both in his staff and on game days which causes his interest to wane. Wentz allows his mind and mechanics to falter. 

My personal fault meter in all of this?

60% Wentz

40% Howie

The Green Bay GM drafted a QB in the first round! But he was dealing with a different player in Rodgers. Howie blew it with the Hurts pick in that regard. But to allow yourself to fall from an MVP caliber player to the worst QB on an NFL field? Yeah that’s why Wentz needs to take the brunt of the accountability.

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38 minutes ago, ProstheticRGK said:

I definitely agree with your take on moving him this year is the optimal solution for everyone involved.

But, Carson is under contract still. And, he hasn't officially said anything about wanting to be traded/moved. If he doesn't get traded, his only options are show up and compete or hold out and not show up, right? I guess he could get a phantom injury and not suit up and still get paid, but that doesn't seem like his style. And a holdout isn't exactly good for him- it tanks his potential value and raises character concerns. He'd be motivated to come in and play at a high level, regardless of all the media speculation, unless he's willing to completely scrap his NFL career.

If he holds out, what happens to the cap hit for the Eagles? I know they don't actually pay him his salary, but are they still on the hook for the contract value for the year, if he's holding out? Bonus money already paid ($35M?} already counted against the cap, but his remaining salary? 

I think he starts getting fined after a certain amount of time he misses from camp. After that and it goes into the season you get docked your game checks. This is what happened to Bell when he held out in Pittsburgh 

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

We’re going around and around. Me, you, insiders etc have no clue, none, how the rest of the league values Wentz. I tried to walk you through it with the Stafford deal. 

It’s the talent you’re trading for, period. If Frank Reich wants him it’s because he believes he can maximize that talent and that he’s getting a good player. If Reich believes he can make Wentz the best QB in the league that does not mean you immediately give numerous first round picks.

Your entire second and third paragraphs are fantasy football. Bradford, the bum that everyone knew he was in fantasy circles still had value through all the injuries and all the bad/mediocre years because he had talent. QB’s who are young and have talent have value. 

There’s nothing homer to be about here. We will see what he goes for and if Howie is truly asking for two 1’s, he’s certainly positioning himself to get at least one. 

Lol at you "tried to walk me through it". You still don't get it, the Lions got a higher return in the Stafford deal because they agreed to take back a similar QB with a similarly bad contract to Wentz in Goff. Also, Stafford is a better QB who wasn't coming of a horrendous season and his contract wasn't an albatross. For some reason you continue to ignore the financial component of this. The best comp really is Goff- similar talent and contract to Wentz, and the Rams paid extra to get rid of him.

In any event, I'll bow out as there's no sense going around in circles. IMO you guys are vastly overrating Wentz and his trade value, and as of now the rest of the NFL certainly seems to agree with me.

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2 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

Pretty cool. Those 2 have always been close and I think one of the reasons the Eagles wanted Stick was because of their friendship. They share the same agent and both played in the same offense. The Eagles just got too cute by trading down and let another team take Stick. 

Have had the pleasure of watching both of them and Trey Lance win championships. 
 

I got your QB factory right here at NDSU. 

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38 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Vin Fosh:
 

UPDATE: The Denver Broncos and Philadelphia Eagles appear to have made “significant progress” in trade talks involving Eagles QB, Carson Wentz.

Does that mean Drew Lock could be our QB? Not sure how I would feel about that, he looks like he’s 13. 

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

From Vin Fosh:
 

UPDATE: The Denver Broncos and Philadelphia Eagles appear to have made “significant progress” in trade talks involving Eagles QB, Carson Wentz.

Wentz with Sutton would be incredible 

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3 minutes ago, Pip's Invitation said:

Geno Smith is still playing?

Yes I totally forgot he was backing up Wilson in Sea. But I remember Kaepernick fans having a Cow because SEA signed Geno over CK or at least brought him in for a workout at the time. 

Either way my point of my very long listed post was this. Teams are gonna realize outside of Watson and a team picking in the top 5 or 10 in the draft there aren't many decent options available in trade or FA. Dak is coming off his own injury and could be some worry if he has any effects which is why I think Dal tags him because they have no other options at QB. Teams will shy away on the price to acquire Watson and he along with Wentz despite having played better has a big contract. Teams might not want to give up the kind of assets HOU would want and could circle back to Wentz. Half the teams in the NFL this offseason could be changing QBs just based on all the news and rumors. Either way when Teams look at the landscape they will realize "you know what, taking Wentz and then being able to cut him after the year if he's not good isn't such a bad idea. And if he plays anywhere close to '17 level this contract becomes a steal for us." 

Based on the options available if I'm one of the fans of a team needing a QB like say Indy or someone in their situation who might be a good QB away from a long playoff run I'd want them to do whatever it takes to get him on the roster at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Tom Hagen said:

To me that is the most interesting part. I doubt Denver gives up #9 so it's either a future first or something less than a first.

Forgot DEN was that high up in the draft. If we did that it's Highway robbery but outside Lawerence no one in this draft comes close to the talent of Wentz or his skill set IMHO. 

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  • The Noid changed the title to ***Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*** - Forget Gamestop and AMC, get your Jalen Hurts stonk now. Jersey sales up 500%!
  • The Noid changed the title to ***Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*** - Bad day to be a Brandon, good day to be Bart Scott’s eyebrow.

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