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If You've Grown Tired Of Both Anti- and Neo-Fascist Violence, Check In Here


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This is for those of us that can both appreciate nuance and broad strokes.

Check in here. You're in the well-deserved "thinker" cateogry, not some DNC or RNC dupe.

Don't let others deter you. Make it known right here, right now.

Edited by rockaction
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1 minute ago, djmich said:

Need a shoot them both option.

Not so much on the "thinking" part, but the anger is shared.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Why just those two types?  I'm against all violence unless it is needed to defend yourself.

It's pretty much firmly implied that these two are the forms of American political violence we see today, but you do you, exacting man.  

Edited by rockaction
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I'm pretty strongly anti-fascist.   I don't support the anarchists and leftist extremists that have been lumped together as "Antifa," whatever that means.  

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Been saying the whole time, no violence. Doesn't matter which ideology is pushing it. I do support protesting. Don't ask me how to solve the problem of avoiding a few bad apples casting a pall of violence over a preponderance of peaceful protesters, I don't know.

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11 minutes ago, the rover said:

I'm pretty strongly anti-fascist.   I don't support the anarchists and leftist extremists that have been lumped together as "Antifa," whatever that means.  

Same here. But I will say that my title implies that the leftists and anarchist extremists have co-opted the "anti-fascist" label, for all intents and purposes. And anti-fascist didn't have really a grip on the American consciousness until ANTIFA gave it that. Much like the neo-fascists have seemed to co-opt the otherwise noble Culpepper Minute Men's "Don't Tread On Me" snake and logo to hide the little derivative Tea Party/neo-fascists that they really are.  The Tea Party in 2012 wasn't neo-fascist, but this current iteration using "Don't Step On Snake" is. 

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Agreed with the caveat that violence has no place in our civil society at the present time. That doesn’t mean that conditions could not occur, in the future, as they have in the past, where violence was justified. 

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45 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Same here. But I will say that my title implies that the leftists and anarchist extremists have co-opted the "anti-fascist" label, for all intents and purposes. And anti-fascist didn't have really a grip on the American consciousness until ANTIFA gave it that. Much like the neo-fascists have seemed to co-opt the otherwise noble Culpepper Minute Men's "Don't Tread On Me" snake and logo to hide the little derivative Tea Party/neo-fascists that they really are.  The Tea Party in 2012 wasn't neo-fascist, but this current iteration using "Don't Step On Snake" is. 

I was caught up in the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999.   The violence there was mostly incited by anarchists who come out for every damned protest in Seattle ever since.   Doesn't matter of it's May Day or cab drivers protesting against Uber, these freaking idiots will start breaking windows and setting stuff on fire.   This year they found some allies in the socialist workers and the fringe of BLM, added some radical homeless advocates and some bored skate punks and managed to make Seattle a hellhole.   But it didn't have a thing to do with George Floyd or fascists.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, the rover said:

I was caught up in the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999.   The violence there was mostly incited by anarchists who come out for every damned protest in Seattle ever since.   Doesn't matter of it's May Day or cab drivers protesting against Uber, these freaking idiots will start breaking windows and setting stuff on fire.   This year they found some allies in the socialist workers and the fringe of BLM, added some radical homeless advocates and some bored skate punks and managed to make Seattle a hellhole.   But it didn't have a thing to do with George Floyd or fascists.

I had to go to work avoiding the IMF protestors back in 2000-2001 in Washington D.C. The anarchists had traveled up and down the East Coast for it. It was charming. They make every protest their own, and make every cause or protest that they attend suspect through their means and their ways of protest.

Edited by rockaction
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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

Been saying the whole time, no violence. Doesn't matter which ideology is pushing it. I do support protesting. Don't ask me how to solve the problem of avoiding a few bad apples casting a pall of violence over a preponderance of peaceful protesters, I don't know.

:goodposting:

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2 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

Been saying the whole time, no violence. Doesn't matter which ideology is pushing it. I do support protesting. Don't ask me how to solve the problem of avoiding a few bad apples casting a pall of violence over a preponderance of peaceful protesters, I don't know.

Yep.  Spot on.

Anti-violence.  All around.  Left.  Right.  Middle.

Fully supportive of peaceful protests.  And angry protests.   But not violence.

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Any violence, looting, arson, assault, intimidation, or other illegal activity is growing tiresome and ever more dangerous.  Such a sad spiral we appear to be in.  Hoping we find a way to reach bottom and get better.

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8 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

Any violence, looting, arson, assault, intimidation, or other illegal activity is growing tiresome and ever more dangerous.  Such a sad spiral we appear to be in.  Hoping we find a way to reach bottom and get better.

Not even if the arson is for a just cause? Doesn't that explain it away just a little bit?

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5 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

Been saying the whole time, no violence. Doesn't matter which ideology is pushing it. I do support protesting. Don't ask me how to solve the problem of avoiding a few bad apples casting a pall of violence over a preponderance of peaceful protesters, I don't know.

Exactly 

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2 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

Any violence, looting, arson, assault, intimidation, or other illegal activity is growing tiresome and ever more dangerous.  Such a sad spiral we appear to be in.  Hoping we find a way to reach bottom and get better.

I am even freaking tired of litterbugs.

Pretty sure I need to move to Singapore. 

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9 hours ago, rockaction said:

Edited for clarity and intelligence.

apologies. your thread title, which you posted on the very day neo-fascists tried to "seize" our capitol, made me think you were drawing false equivalencies. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, snitwitch said:

apologies. your thread title, which you posted on the very day neo-fascists tried to "seize" our capitol, made me think you were drawing false equivalencies. 

There really are no false equivalencies when it comes to arson, destruction of property, physical violence, and obstructionism of governance. If you'd read my postings and threads from back when I asked Yankee23Fan if he was as scared as I was of a non-peaceful transition of power in 2020 (this was back as early as early 2018), you'd know that BOF SIDES, when it comes to arson, destruction of property, obstruction, or physical violence towards another, is something I always fret about endlessly. 

I'll come back and bump my own thread for you with the relevant passages worried about more left than right but also BOF SIDES and their propensity to either commit or support political violence of the physical kind and also property destruction in the name of political grievances.

Edited by rockaction
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Posted (edited)

To quote from August 26, 2020:

"I don't have much today other than to say that I'm extremely worried about extremism taking over America, especially from the left. Yes, there are right-wing extremists in militias and alt-right sympathies in politics that are way too central to our daily lives, but I'm just very worried that the agitations of the left will lead to something serious besides reform. If there's one thing I've argued for all my life, it's natural rights and a decentralization of power according to the Constitution. I fear that notion is about to be abridged or usurped on grounds of race, class, and gender, amorphous in definition and in thrall to ideological programs steeped in authoritarianism. Black Lives Matter has taken on a mission statement replete with an academic leftist undertone of Marxist hodge-podge. The left is using our weaknesses not to protest for reform, but as revolution and open revolt against norms and property. 

Today is a sad day and I write with a heavy heart. I fear that voices like mine arguing for reform and justice will get pushed into the background and that voices arguing for power now will be heeded. To be on the wrong side of history is one thing, both in this life and the future, but I fear that the history I am on the wrong side of is itself wrong.

That is all I have to say for tonight, really.

I should also point out that our ineffectual President and what passes for the American right these days sheds no responsibility for a lack of leadership in difficult times. Instead of listening, thinking, and looking into matters such as police brutality in the inner cities, we see them writing off the protestors as "anarchists" and "agitators," sending in federal troops to quell unrest in the inner cities and exurbs affected by police violence. This sort of attitude that demonizes justified pushback is a hindrance to all of us that value true law and order. The vacuum created by empty platitudes and a lack of response to the problem makes even the radical agitators legitimate in peoples' minds. It is a slow rot, disconcerting and troublesome to those that seek real liberty tempered by a real valuation of law and order, not some empty catch phrase or meat for the base. It would seem that in the words of someone wiser than I, now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party, not any partisan political party, but the party of true democrats and republicans. I have never been sadder than watching the past three years and seeing people take sides anathema to republicanism from the right as well as the left. It is something that leaves me less than sanguine about our country's fortunes.

And that's it for the night."

Edited by rockaction
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5 hours ago, rockaction said:

To quote from August 26, 2000:

"I don't have much today other than to say that I'm extremely worried about extremism taking over America, especially from the left. Yes, there are right-wing extremists in militias and alt-right sympathies in politics that are way too central to our daily lives, but I'm just very worried that the agitations of the left will lead to something serious besides reform. If there's one thing I've argued for all my life, it's natural rights and a decentralization of power according to the Constitution. I fear that notion is about to be abridged or usurped on grounds of race, class, and gender, amorphous in definition and in thrall to ideological programs steeped in authoritarianism. Black Lives Matter has taken on a mission statement replete with an academic leftist undertone of Marxist hodge-podge. The left is using our weaknesses not to protest for reform, but as revolution and open revolt against norms and property. 

Today is a sad day and I write with a heavy heart. I fear that voices like mine arguing for reform and justice will get pushed into the background and that voices arguing for power now will be heeded. To be on the wrong side of history is one thing, both in this life and the future, but I fear that the history I am on the wrong side of is itself wrong.

That is all I have to say for tonight, really.

I should also point out that our ineffectual President and what passes for the American right these days sheds no responsibility for a lack of leadership in difficult times. Instead of listening, thinking, and looking into matters such as police brutality in the inner cities, we see them writing off the protestors as "anarchists" and "agitators," sending in federal troops to quell unrest in the inner cities and exurbs affected by police violence. This sort of attitude that demonizes justified pushback is a hindrance to all of us that value true law and order. The vacuum created by empty platitudes and a lack of response to the problem makes even the radical agitators legitimate in peoples' minds. It is a slow rot, disconcerting and troublesome to those that seek real liberty tempered by a real valuation of law and order, not some empty catch phrase or meat for the base. It would seem that in the words of someone wiser than I, now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party, not any partisan political party, but the party of true democrats and republicans. I have never been sadder than watching the past three years and seeing people take sides anathema to republicanism from the right as well as the left. It is something that leaves me less than sanguine about our country's fortunes.

And that's it for the night."

You sure you have the date right?  IIRC, there was no Black Lives Matter organization in 2000.

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2 hours ago, Charlie Steiner said:

You sure you have the date right?  IIRC, there was no Black Lives Matter organization in 2000.

2020, Charlie, not 2000. My Gosh, is that ever wrong. I am not that prescient, nor was I on the board then. 

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All of this is a symptom of a bigger issue.  All of these people are being manipulated by constant misinformation.  It's all based on fear, and in reality, most of these people all want the same things.  

 

This is what you get when a society becomes complacent, entitled, and a lacks a true understanding of what is a need vs. a want.....and we wonder why much of the world hates us?  We have everything, yet we act like spoiled brats.

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

It has become painfully obvious to me that the media push to label everything they could a peaceful protest actually worked amazingly well. 

Yep.

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11 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I was thinking about this exact topic when I was out running this morning.  For the past four years, there's been a weird strain of thought among a certain type of liberal (not every left-of-center poster on this forum, but there are a few people like this here) where folks go back and forth between complaining about how terrible Trump is and then in the next breath lamenting that their own tribe isn't more like Trump.  This is usually couched in terms like "playing hardball" and "going low if they go low" or something like that, but it amounts to a strange desire to Trumpify their own tribe.  This isn't really new though.

 What's new is that you have this sub-set of right-wingers who have mostly spent the past couple of years demonizing antifa, which is fine because antifa deserves to be condemned.  But now it's as if those folks suddenly decided that really what we've needed all this time is a right-wing version of antifa, complete with the ridiculous cosplay elements and the high-profile mob violence.  This has been brewing for a while -- see armed protesters showing up at state capitols and the Kyle Rittenhouse episode -- but it's still interesting to see right-wingers adopt a full-throated antifa-syle approach to political violence.

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

It has become painfully obvious to me that the media push to label everything they could a peaceful protest actually worked amazingly well. 

We saw literally this exact same dynamic play out with masks and social distancing.  For most of the spring, we were all told (rightly) to wear masks, socially distance, and just generally stay home. Then all of the sudden things changed, and we were told that it was a-okay to get together in huge, tightly-packed crowds and scream at one another for hours at a time.  Not surprisingly, lots of people (me included) concluded that the media and public health authorities are mostly full of ####.  That's fine, because they are.  The problem is that the media and public health officials were right about social distancing and wrong about the protests, but some people took this as a license to think that they were wrong about social distancing and masks and so they ran with that instead and here we are.

Fast forward a bit, and we can see that right-wingers were also listening when people said that actually looting is good and destruction of property is no big deal because insurance markets exist, and regardless we have to understand the "root causes" of the violence and address the needs of the people who feel they're being mistreated etc.  It's kind of amazing to me that everybody completely understands that it's bad for Trump to glorify violence because the cons are listening, while thinking that nobody pays attention to the media.   

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5 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Fast forward a bit, and we can see that right-wingers were also listening when people said that actually looting is good and destruction of property is no big deal because insurance markets exist, and regardless we have to understand the "root causes" of the violence and address the needs of the people who feel they're being mistreated etc.  It's kind of amazing to me that everybody completely understands that it's bad for Trump to glorify violence because the cons are listening, while thinking that nobody pays attention to the media.

This board was real big on the insurance aspect. Lots of comments to that. If search function was working I would pull up some of my replies, because those comments really pissed me off. 

I also cant believe how people try and deny that the media made a concerted effort to not use the word riot. They didnt even hide it as the AP Style Book officially discouraged its use. 

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

This board was real big on the insurance aspect. Lots of comments to that. If search function was working I would pull up some of my replies, because those comments really pissed me off. 

I also cant believe how people try and deny that the media made a concerted effort to not use the word riot. They didnt even hide it as the AP Style Book officially discouraged its use. 

To this day most liberals don't view the Antifa/BLM riots AS riots.  We always get the "well, they've been oppressed for so long......RACISM!" excuses and how them rioting just doesn't compare to what happened on Wednesday nonsense.

What do you think murder, assault and trying to burn FEDERAL buildings is?  How about confronting normal citizens in the streets simply because they're white?  Hint:  It's NOT a "Peaceful Protest".

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4 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

We saw literally this exact same dynamic play out with masks and social distancing.  For most of the spring, we were all told (rightly) to wear masks, socially distance, and just generally stay home. Then all of the sudden things changed, and we were told that it was a-okay to get together in huge, tightly-packed crowds and scream at one another for hours at a time.  Not surprisingly, lots of people (me included) concluded that the media and public health authorities are mostly full of ####.  That's fine, because they are

You might enjoy this thread

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58 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Talk about being clueless

What does he think has been happening? Has he really missed the murder rates skyrocketing? 

Apparently he's been living in a cave with the BLM/Antifa violence over the last year or two.  But, hey, it's the MAGA guys we gotta' worry about.

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On 1/8/2021 at 3:12 PM, Manster said:

All of this is a symptom of a bigger issue.  All of these people are being manipulated by constant misinformation.  It's all based on fear, and in reality, most of these people all want the same things.  

Yup.  You almost half to laugh to avoid crying or punching something.  In the past year I've seen the most colossal failure of power and institutions of my lifetime, and what's people's response?  One group of schlubs is convinced that the group of schlubs on the other side is somehow responsible, and vice versa.

I'm actually amazed that the Capitol Police chief resigned in the aftermath of this week.  I'm so used to people in charge "taking responsibility" by simply mouthing those words and nothing else that it has become astonishing when someone in a position of power suffers negative career implications from failure.

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Mass shooter in chicago.

Ho hum

ETA: Oh JFC this guy went on facebook and talked about killing people and blowing up the community and had a long criminal record. His name was jason Nightengale. Do a google search for Jason Nightengale. Then do Jake Angeli. Or Richard Barnett. Or Miya Ponsetto. 

 

Edited by parasaurolophus
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On 1/6/2021 at 10:30 PM, rockaction said:
On 1/6/2021 at 10:21 PM, Shula-holic said:

Any violence, looting, arson, assault, intimidation, or other illegal activity is growing tiresome and ever more dangerous.  Such a sad spiral we appear to be in.  Hoping we find a way to reach bottom and get better.

Not even if the arson is for a just cause? Doesn't that explain it away just a little bit?

No.  You break the law you face the consequences.

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4 minutes ago, JAA said:

No.  You break the law you face the consequences.

That was sarcasm. It was definitely a position on this board that the looting and arson were understandable, if not justifiable. Nine people voted in favor of violence at the BLM/Antifa rallies.

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On 1/7/2021 at 1:01 PM, rockaction said:
On 1/7/2021 at 10:01 AM, Charlie Steiner said:

You sure you have the date right?  IIRC, there was no Black Lives Matter organization in 2000.

2020, Charlie, not 2000. My Gosh, is that ever wrong. I am not that prescient, nor was I on the board then. 

I think I was on Cheatsheets.net around that time

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