Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
In Wisconsin, you can pretty much account for tuition growth by cuts in state funding:
https://web.education.wisc.edu/nwhillman/index.php/2017/02/09/state-funding-trends-for-the-uw-system/
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- Thread starter timschochet
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https://web.education.wisc.edu/nwhillman/index.php/2017/02/09/state-funding-trends-for-the-uw-system/
MAC_32
Footballguy
No - because that's not fact. This is an important discussion that needs to be had, but the basis must be rooted in reality.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Exact same years man. Small world. I don't remember the exact tuition either, but your memory sounds right.
Completely understand. My son has already expressed in these words "I'm scared that I won't be able to do as well as you guys." He means economically. He's 12. And he's worried about school costs, getting a job, having a career that pays him enough to live, etc. He's freaking 12. It breaks my heart.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't know how prevalent this angle is because I only hear it within my higher ed bubble, but it sure seems most are not informed with this issue. Cause this has been an increasingly problematic issue for years.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's all relevant. All information must be absorbed then applied to one's unique situation. I think our problem is rooted in those that go $30K in debt; not the $50+ pool. Is everyone that's $50K+ in debt irresponsible? No, of course not. But a greater % than the lesser pool? Well, yeah.
Minimize the burden on the $30K group, which would also improve the situation of those that go deeper in debt. How is that accomplished? Depends on who you ask. We're way too divided to agree on something like this right now.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Not sure what that link disputes on first glance. I saw average in state public as 25k a year.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Cutting somewhere in between the median and average. The target number should probably be less than 30, but any good negotiator starts higher than they expect to end.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I strongly recommend reading it in full. It's a lot of information to soak in at once. The $25K number (tuition + R&B) you saw only represents the top 15% of states. Wisconsin is 41st at $17K.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I understand there would be a range. This am I just looked at UWs page to get a number for comparison since I know what my tuition cost back in the day. If i remember right, the UW extensions like LaCrosse are more like 12-15/ year.
Also sad I am worried about this in a state that ranks 41st, but I also realize I am probably a bottom 1%er as far as FBGs income too.
For sure there are ways to keep costs down, and I admit I am talking in general terms
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Colleges should be held accountable for their prior frivolous spending and poor planning. The 1%ers aren't, but the invisible hand is doing work on the rest. It's way...way more than just that though. Where higher ed fumbled the football is not accounting for the decrease in high school graduates over recent years - because there are less of them. That's something that should have been planned for, but generally across the industry was not. The state funding issue though...isn't anything institutions can do about that. Need to pressure policy makers to fix that and I've not gotten the sense that's a priority...well, anywhere really.
I think more school closures are coming - and are necessary. But for the tuition number to go the other way and not stay steady states need to prioritize higher ed to other current priorities.
The Commish
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
In some cases, sure...agree.
That said, I try to look at what this country would likely be if we were personally responsible for every single aspect of our participation in our Republic and when I do, it's not pretty....there's a balancing act here. I'll say again though, I'm not a fan of just erasing the debts.
derek245583
Footballguy
Probably because “make someone else pay for my college” doesn’t play as well. Just spitballingThe Commish said:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Why we need to raise taxes. With the spin off benefits that higher taxes means real demand to cut spending and legal tax avoidance schemes (like reinvesting in your business) are good for the economy.Ramblin Wreck said:
The Commish
Footballguy
Perhaps.....it would have to be a quite a deficiency in self awareness to NOT understand we all pay for things for each other already as a matter of necessity and keeping society safe and in check. Arguments can be made for our education contributing to that success of our society. Arguments can be made against education contribution (though not as successfully IMO). It's a complicated issue to be sure and really it really serves us no purpose to reduce it to a bad talking point.
FairWarning
Footballguy
He can learn a trade and be miles ahead also. Not trolling but those jobs are always in demand.Alex P Keaton said:
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Does this apply equally for all things for you - banks, businesses, house loans?Ramblin Wreck said:
I get the gut reaction that we don't want all student loans to evaporate, but I think it's a racket that there are 0 protections for people to get out of that student loan in certain circumstances like we have for the above type of loans.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Also - depending on where and what he teaches, it is not unreasonbale for him to make 100K per year down the road.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Meant the other way. You show the equal disapproval if someone or a business can't pay or declares bankruptcy?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. Very true. My daughter is more likely to enjoy that route.
Appreciate the thought and know that it isn’t trolling. Thanks for your kindness!
PS - I’m not worried about his ability to succeed; it is heartbreaking to watch a kid his age have that much fear and anxiety, whether it is rational or not.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I live a qtr mile from three people who own HVAC businesses. All three have people working for them. One doesn’t need to go to Stanford for general business classes - just a JC will do. It’s tough to see a 12-YO worry about college, just needs good guidance. He’s probably changing his mind 5 times between now and graduating HS.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
universities/colleges are going to jack their prices up enmourously now that the Fed Govt is looking to pay the bill - it'll cots $25,000 a semester in no time for a community college :(
if Biden leaves office in 4 years with our country UNDER 40Trillion in debt, I'll be surprised
if Biden leaves office in 4 years with our country UNDER 40Trillion in debt, I'll be surprised
FairWarning
Footballguy
This is my concern about free college. It already is like a puppy mill, churning out worthless degrees while the grad has massive debt.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
If either of you guys ever had a beer at the Crystal Corner on Willie Street, there's a decent chance I poured it - at least in 93/94 which were the last years I worked there.KarmaPolice said:
Sand
Footballguy
Except for the fact that for the vast majority of student loan recipients the debt is modest and anything but "crippling". This is a complete mischaracterization of what the reality is.
Sure, agreed. As long as the taxpayer is protected and future loans are then treated as a personal non-recourse loan, which is essentially what they are. Prevailing interest rates for those are 15-20%, at the least. Let's recognize the risk for what it is if we allow for regular bankruptcy and take steps to protect the taxpayer.
Universities dramatically increased non teaching payroll, etc. with the huge flow of monies from the Feds. It is estimated that 67 cents on every Pell Grant dollar inflated costs instead of subsidizing them. We gave universities huge gobs of cash and they raised prices to capture as much as possible. Some part of this is also the decreasing state support, but a huge part is the ocean of cash we've provided these institutions.KarmaPolice said:
CR69
Footballguy
As someone who helps people buy homes and literally sees thousands of credit reports a year, a lot of our fellow citizens are crippled by their student loans.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
For some reason, people have a really difficult time with this point. Most college graduates graduate with no debt whatsoever. Among those who do graduate with debt, the average debt load is about $30K, which is comparable to a typical new car loan. Many of the folks who graduate with six-figure debt acquired that debt by pursuing a professional degree. None of this stuff is a big deal, let alone a crisis.
I do have some sympathy for people who borrow for college and never graduate.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
There's no reason why you should be paying $100,000 for a teaching degree unless you're deliberately spending some of that money on "the college experience" as opposed to career prep. Which is completely fine, of course -- we're doing exactly that with one of my kids. But there are a ton of affordable options out there for that career path.KarmaPolice said:
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