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Biden’s plan: 1.9 trillion for Covid relief


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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

Yeah but there is already an exemption for that if minimum wage is 15.

As in they make minimum wage if they dont get there with tips. 

I fully understand a push for a minimum wage of 15, i dont understand the push for eliminating tip wage. And I certainly dont understand either being inserted into a covid bill. I really hate politicians. 

Why cant states decide minimum wage?

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2 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

And if I have learned one thing from this pandemic, its that this proposal will somehow benefit large chain restaurants and screw smaller establishments. I am not sure how yet, but bet on it. 

See my above post on this very subject: it’s actually easy to see how. Whenever these sorts of changes are imposed, corporations can afford them, small businesses can’t. Pretty simple. 

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8 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:
11 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Something I've always wondered is why a place doesn't "guarantee" a minimum wage, but if they clear that in tips, then they get their tips.  So if it's $15 an hour, they pay you that if you don't get there in tips or at minimum bridge that gap...if they get close and are $100 off or something, the employer pays that.

Does any of my rambling make sense?  :lol: 

I like this idea a lot actually. 

This is already law as far as I'm aware -- top line of the chart I linked upthread, leftmost column titled "Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate." It protects tipped employees from making below minimum wage on any one paycheck.

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39 minutes ago, FairWarning said:
49 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

What if your employer just paid you 60K a year or whatever you actually earn each year pouring drinks?

You realize the price of the drinks and food will go up substantially if that min wage is raised, right?

The cost will remain the same.  The cost moves from the tip to the bill.

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

It would take some time to get this ingrained ... but one middle ground for today's tipped employees is a service-charge-based system similar to many establishments in Europe (my memory is that it's common in France at anything large than a neighborhood eight-table bistro).

So. Instead of hiking up prices fully to make up the $15/hr ... (larger) restaurants do two things; (1) increase prices modestly and over time, and (2) add a 5-10% "service charge". I'd put the initial service-charge sweet spot at 7.5% or 8%, but it's just a jumping-off point.

Dollars to donuts ... a lot of people used to current American tipping will tend to "overtip" -- on top of the 10%-higher priced mean and the 8% service charge, they'll thrown on a few more bucks. Not a whole 'nother 15-20%, but a few more. Rounding up to the nearest tens of dollars. Things like that.

Tipped employees could make out well in the end, though there would be a good decade-plus of adjustment. But this stuff has changed before, and not forever ago. For restaurant meals, 10% tipping was A-OK for a good while (after WWII to maybe the mid 1960s?), then 15% was the suggestion at least 30 more years, and now 20% seems like the go-to figure. Is 25% standard tipping palatable? People would adjust, but I think Americans could adjust to a service-charge system, too.

It might work but again I think there is a mindset issue that may not exist in Europe. By and large Americans like that they get to decide the amount of tip. They don’t want to be told what that amount must be. 

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s an important issue ...

Tipping is such a hot button, and minimum-wage changes are not far behind.

Ever notice how "restaurant workers" and "restaurants", "opening restaurants", "indoor dining", etc. have become a proxy for desccribing the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic? A lot of people out in meatspace talk like if you could magically get restaurants back to where they were 12 months ago, that the entire rest of economy would be totally fine. Gyms? Meh. Small retailers? Whatevs. But restaurants/bars -- holy schneikies, get THEM back up pronto!

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s an important issue but we shouldn’t forget that the overall stimulus proposal is far bigger than just the minimum wage question. Any thoughts on the rest of it? 

Based on what I've read, I'm a fan.  This should have happened months ago. 

But I can't say that I'm all that knowledgeable about the details, there's probably some stuff in there I don't like.

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Tipping is such a hot button, and minimum-wage changes are not far behind.

Ever notice how "restaurant workers" and "restaurants", "opening restaurants", "indoor dining", etc. have become a proxy for desccribing the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic? A lot of people out in meatspace talk like if you could magically get restaurants back to where they were 12 months ago, that the entire rest of economy would be totally fine. Gyms? Meh. Small retailers? Whatevs. But restaurants/bars -- holy schneikies, get THEM back up pronto!

Well sure but part of that is pleasure for the rest of us. We can live, for a while, without going to the gym (some folks never go), or the hair salon. But who doesn’t love eating out? It’s America’s greatest pastime, 

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It might work but again I think there is a mindset issue that may not exist in Europe. By and large Americans like that they get to decide the amount of tip. They don’t want to be told what that amount must be. 

The U.S. has significant cultural inertia -- but it's not infinite inertia. Things do change, in both small ways and large, and we usually don't see it coming.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Based on what I've read, I'm a fan.  This should have happened months ago. 

But I can't say that I'm all that knowledgeable about the details, there's probably some stuff in there I don't like.

I’m a fan too overall. There’s a few items like the one we’re currently discussing which are a bit problematic. And of course, putting aside the issue of Republican hypocrisy, the debt really is a legitimate concern: this is a lot of money. But overall we need to do this I believe. 

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13 minutes ago, Doug B said:

This is already law as far as I'm aware -- top line of the chart I linked upthread, leftmost column titled "Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate." It protects tipped employees from making below minimum wage on any one paycheck.

He meant a minimum wage, not the minimum wage.

 

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20 minutes ago, JAA said:
1 hour ago, FairWarning said:
1 hour ago, dawgtrails said:

What if your employer just paid you 60K a year or whatever you actually earn each year pouring drinks?

You realize the price of the drinks and food will go up substantially if that min wage is raised, right?

The cost will remain the same.  The cost moves from the tip to the bill.

That's assuming everyone tips the same.  Stiffs like @AAABatteries will definitely see their bill increase.

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:
18 minutes ago, Doug B said:

This is already law as far as I'm aware -- top line of the chart I linked upthread, leftmost column titled "Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate." It protects tipped employees from making below minimum wage on any one paycheck.

He meant a minimum wage, not the minimum wage.

At the level of the individual business? Say, Joe's Bistro guaranteeing a floor of $15/hr while cheapo Smitty's Grub across the street sticks with the current fed-dictated floor of $7.25/hr? Seems that competitive pressures in a low-margin industry would prevent this from getting all that common.

Although -- something like this does happen in places where a bunch of high-end restaurants are clustered close together (e.g. the French Quarter in New Orleans). There was (and probably still is) a class of professional waiters locally that generally get to a high-end place, stay there for decades, and cultivate a well-heeled clientele. These professional waiters not only work at their restaurants, but also do a lot of private-party sidework (even to the point of getting flown across the country for high-roller events). Anyway, poaching a waiter (and their loyal cleintele) from another place is done sometimes -- and straight cash is one way to do it.

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27 minutes ago, Doug B said:

This is already law as far as I'm aware -- top line of the chart I linked upthread, leftmost column titled "Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate." It protects tipped employees from making below minimum wage on any one paycheck.

No....what I'm talking about is a little different...as a matter of personal policy, as an owner of a restaurant/bar guaranteeing A minimum they'd make at my establishment.  This is where I was concerned about my babble not being clear.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:
30 minutes ago, Doug B said:

This is already law as far as I'm aware -- top line of the chart I linked upthread, leftmost column titled "Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate." It protects tipped employees from making below minimum wage on any one paycheck.

No....what I'm talking about is a little different...as a matter of personal policy, as an owner of a restaurant/bar guaranteeing A minimum they'd make at my establishment.  This is where I was concerned about my babble not being clear.

Gotcha.

Something else to think about that I didn't write above is that for a lot of mid- to low-end places (and virtually every chain or chain-ish place), employees are eminently replaceable. Being the rock-star server at, say, a Longhorn's Steakhouse does get you a lot of in-restaurant perks (better stations, pick of the schedule, getting away with small stuff, etc.). But when it comes to guaranteeing a base wage much above federal/state law? If you're really tight with management and they're truly loathe for you to leave ... you might be able to ask for and receive another buck an hour. Push that too far, though, and they're happy to stand their ground and let you know you're free to find work elsewhere. Most restaurants are happy to run through several trainees and see which one or two can replace their previous rock star.

TL:DR -- tipped employees at most places just don't have that kind of leverage.

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45 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

What i wrote applied to your scenario where waitstaff was seeing a substantial decrease in tips. In other words if a waiter was averaging 15 dollars an hour in tips before and now was seeing 3. They would make 15 bucks an hour still since they cant get paid overall less than minimum wage. 

I’m in sales for my regular job, event Bartending is just a side gig.  Personally I don’t want bartenders/waitstaff who are comfortable with making $15.  A good bartender in a average bar should make $100 min in tips a night.  A great bartender can make $200 and up.  
 

Besides raising the bartenders and servers wages, don’t forget to raise the back of the house wages also.  Now your dinner just went up a lot.  

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10 minutes ago, Doug B said:

At the level of the individual business? Say, Joe's Bistro guaranteeing a floor of $15/hr while cheapo Smitty's Grub across the street sticks with the current fed-dictated floor of $7.25/hr? Seems that competitive pressures in a low-margin industry would prevent this from getting all that common.

In any food places I ever worked this would have had minimal impact on the owners. The only time it would have would be when you had some poor performing servers that werent bringing in enough in tips so you had to supplement their wages. 

That would expose your lesser staff pretty easily and you could replace. 

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58 minutes ago, Doug B said:

No, I mean is that in the bill's language?

EDIT: The Vox article makes it sound like tipped employees are to make $15/hr PLUS tips. Parasaurolophus quotes Vox's paraphrase directly upthread, third post of this thread.

I would argue then we eliminate from this bill

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37 minutes ago, Doug B said:
44 minutes ago, JAA said:

Why cant states decide minimum wage?

... they do. Almost all of them.

Right - so can we ask the federal govt to get out of the minimum wage business?

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i'll call myself a D, just so that's out there, but i'm more a moderate and realist.  i have been knee deep in the PPP process for months and the amount of money that this country has wasted on a rushed and half arsed program is shameful and no one will ever truly know nor understand.  arbitrarily throwing money at people, without best determining who really needs this money, is crazy and i can't support this.  so many people who don't need money will and have qualified for this and prior stimulus funds.  we basically donated hundreds of thousands and millions in ppp "loans" to too many businesses that never closed and don't need the funds, though they qualify.  direct money to businesses and individuals should be targeted to those that need it, not just those that qualify under random guidance.  i.e. - if businesses need to apply, why not have individuals apply or fill out an application?  making the 2nd round of PPP based on revenue loss and targeting 72 coded NAICS businesses to get 3.5x is a start, but i am not supportive of money dumps.

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5 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

i'll call myself a D, just so that's out there, but i'm more a moderate and realist.  i have been knee deep in the PPP process for months and the amount of money that this country has wasted on a rushed and half arsed program is shameful and no one will ever truly know nor understand.  arbitrarily throwing money at people, without best determining who really needs this money, is crazy and i can't support this.  so many people who don't need money will and have qualified for this and prior stimulus funds.  we basically donated hundreds of thousands and millions in ppp "loans" to too many businesses that never closed and don't need the funds, though they qualify.  direct money to businesses and individuals should be targeted to those that need it, not just those that qualify under random guidance.  i.e. - if businesses need to apply, why not have individuals apply or fill out an application?  making the 2nd round of PPP based on revenue loss and targeting 72 coded NAICS businesses to get 3.5x is a start, but i am not supportive of money dumps.

I agree, but there are a number of business who need it.  Im guessing the bell curve here with how it helps business is reasonable.

I feel for NY.  Here is another, albeit small, example of the challenges:  The Bills game is at 8:15pm and hopefully will be an excellent game.  For the 6700 people attending the game, none of them will be able to buy concessions after 10pm.  Cuomo has refused to temp remove the curfew and thus after what we guess will be half-time, no one at the stadium will be able to buy anything.  Nor of course will they be allowed to bring anything into the game.  Crazy

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4 minutes ago, JAA said:

I agree, but there are a number of business who need it.  Im guessing the bell curve here with how it helps business is reasonable.

I feel for NY.  Here is another, albeit small, example of the challenges:  The Bills game is at 8:15pm and hopefully will be an excellent game.  For the 6700 people attending the game, none of them will be able to buy concessions after 10pm.  Cuomo has refused to temp remove the curfew and thus after what we guess will be half-time, no one at the stadium will be able to buy anything.  Nor of course will they be allowed to bring anything into the game.  Crazy

meh, not to oversimplify, but 300k+ people have died from CV?  i think 6700 folks enjoying a football game can go without beer and hot dogs for 30 minutes.  not exactly the greatest sacrifice in human existence, but they'll be fine me thinks.  sorry.

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14 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

i'll call myself a D, just so that's out there, but i'm more a moderate and realist.  i have been knee deep in the PPP process for months and the amount of money that this country has wasted on a rushed and half arsed program is shameful and no one will ever truly know nor understand.  arbitrarily throwing money at people, without best determining who really needs this money, is crazy and i can't support this.  so many people who don't need money will and have qualified for this and prior stimulus funds.  we basically donated hundreds of thousands and millions in ppp "loans" to too many businesses that never closed and don't need the funds, though they qualify.  direct money to businesses and individuals should be targeted to those that need it, not just those that qualify under random guidance.  i.e. - if businesses need to apply, why not have individuals apply or fill out an application?  making the 2nd round of PPP based on revenue loss and targeting 72 coded NAICS businesses to get 3.5x is a start, but i am not supportive of money dumps.

It seems, at least on paper, that this new plan is far more detailed and better thought out than the original one, which was understandably rushed. So I guess we’ll see. Of course any large spending plan like this is going to have some waste and corrupt behavior involved, there’s no way around that. But the more detailed it is, the more that should be minimized (at least in theory.) 

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32 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Although -- something like this does happen in places where a bunch of high-end restaurants are clustered close together (e.g. the French Quarter in New Orleans). There was (and probably still is) a class of professional waiters locally that generally get to a high-end place, stay there for decades, and cultivate a well-heeled clientele. These professional waiters not only work at their restaurants, but also do a lot of private-party sidework (even to the point of getting flown across the country for high-roller events). Anyway, poaching a waiter (and their loyal cleintele) from another place is done sometimes -- and straight cash is one way to do it.

FairWarning's response to this post makes me want to add something: This same thing happens with high-end bartenders, and probably more frequently. Bartenders in the hot spots definitely build up a clientele, and drinkers will generally follow them to new places in the same scene (French Quarter, college bars by Tulane, etc.).

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

It’s an important issue but we shouldn’t forget that the overall stimulus proposal is far bigger than just the minimum wage question. Any thoughts on the rest of it? 

Yeah, pass a Covid bill and get all the rest of the stuff out of there

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I'd say the 15.00 min. wage increase is something the Bill could do without; although I understand the political idea of it; go big, go quick because you might not get another chance.

 

I honestly think I'd like to see the continuation of the 400.00 in additional unemployment to somehow be tied into the percentage of vaccine permeation thru the country as, while I understand (and would probably do the same) why a (for lack of better words) menial worker would choose to stay unemployed for as long as they can if they are making more (or slightly less,) I think them holding out for long periods of time is bad for the economy. 

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2 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

Why not? If the employer charges an extra buck per drink or whatever the calculus is, wouldn't it all even out in the end?

Not exactly for the employer. Currently employers can claim a credit for the employer portion of FICA tax on tips in excess of minimum wage. If the minimum wage gets increased and tips eliminated, the restaurant would no longer be eligible for this credit and would have an increased payroll tax cost along with potential increases in workers comp premiums.

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Minimum Wage Mandate in Biden’s Pandemic Relief Bill Estimated to Wipe Out 1.3 Million Jobs

https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/minimum-wage-mandate-in-bidens-pandemic-relief-bill-estimated-to-wipe-out-1-3-million-jobs_3658364.html

Download our app to read more at https://ept.ms/DownloadApp

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3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

I think raising the minimum wage to $15 will result in $5 a loaf bread, $10 for 12 ounces of bacon, $18 for a pound of coffee and $14 Happy meals - labor costs increasing for businesses will absolutely result in rises in goods/services

When that happens, the lowest income will still be lowest income, the middle class (like me) who didn't get a raise, will still pay for the higher goods and services and we'll suffer. Fixed income people will really suffer the most

 

 

This is still a big talking point? 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

.... By and large Americans like that they get to decide the amount of tip. They don’t want to be told what that amount must be. 

I doubt it!   Who really gets to decide what amount to tip?  I think most non control freaks feel held hostage to the tip given process.  Except for those that aren't tipping much any way very few scale a tip based on actual service - she was :censored: to our table, but we don't know what is going on her life so just give her 20%.   But don't insult him by rounding off incorrectly and giving him :2cents: he has to deal with.   And a billion other uncomfortable rules that are real or imagined.  Few things are more uncomfortable, quicker to ruin the experience than a discussion on the tip breaking out at your table.  I'm pretty certain that there is a pretty good correlation between a culture's "happiness index" and the culture's "tipping practices" and we Americans are miserable being on the wrong side.  

 

ETA: But the again maybe if asked you'd be right in that Americans say they like to tip.   Hostages tend to ...

Edited by Bottomfeeder Sports
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2 hours ago, Doug B said:

Tipping is such a hot button, and minimum-wage changes are not far behind.

Ever notice how "restaurant workers" and "restaurants", "opening restaurants", "indoor dining", etc. have become a proxy for desccribing the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic? A lot of people out in meatspace talk like if you could magically get restaurants back to where they were 12 months ago, that the entire rest of economy would be totally fine. Gyms? Meh. Small retailers? Whatevs. But restaurants/bars -- holy schneikies, get THEM back up pronto!

I get every situation is different and every restaurant is different.   Around here it didn't seem like restaurants got hit that hard during COVID.  Our store was down maybe 15% and we never opened the dining room until 1 week ago.  Seems like the local restaurants and using their take-out/delivery was one thing people still did.  Now all the small retail shops, especially that relied on tourist traffic around here?  Those got demolished.       Like you said, it seems like a lot of the focus and talk was on restaurants, and I didn't get that at all when I saw the other businesses struggling a lot more.  

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2 hours ago, Chemical X said:

i'll call myself a D, just so that's out there, but i'm more a moderate and realist.  i have been knee deep in the PPP process for months and the amount of money that this country has wasted on a rushed and half arsed program is shameful and no one will ever truly know nor understand.  arbitrarily throwing money at people, without best determining who really needs this money, is crazy and i can't support this.  so many people who don't need money will and have qualified for this and prior stimulus funds.  we basically donated hundreds of thousands and millions in ppp "loans" to too many businesses that never closed and don't need the funds, though they qualify.  direct money to businesses and individuals should be targeted to those that need it, not just those that qualify under random guidance.  i.e. - if businesses need to apply, why not have individuals apply or fill out an application?  making the 2nd round of PPP based on revenue loss and targeting 72 coded NAICS businesses to get 3.5x is a start, but i am not supportive of money dumps.

Relevant:

Quote

 

The federal response to the pandemic has been massive — a $5 trillion effort. It has also been a con. Under the cloud cover of Covid-19, the shareholder class has used its outsized influence over government to toss a few loaves of bread at those suffering, all the while accruing trillions of dollars in wealth financed on the backs of younger, and future, generations.

How did we get here? 

 

https://www.profgalloway.com/the-great-grift

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

It’s an important issue but we shouldn’t forget that the overall stimulus proposal is far bigger than just the minimum wage question. Any thoughts on the rest of it? 

As stated in the other thread, the eviction and foreclosure protection is going to hurt the housing market.  Basically shifts the current burden from one group to another while still leaving the first group on the hook and on the street in a year or so.  Still don't understand how the gov't can legally prevent you from exercising your legal and contractural rights.

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7 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

As stated in the other thread, the eviction and foreclosure protection is going to hurt the housing market.  Basically shifts the current burden from one group to another while still leaving the first group on the hook and on the street in a year or so.  Still don't understand how the gov't can legally prevent you from exercising your legal and contractural rights.

Don’t get that either. I’m not a landlord but damn........how do they leave the landlords solely picking up the check here. 

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32 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I doubt it!   Who really gets to decide what amount to tip?  I think most non control freaks feel held hostage to the tip given process.  Except for those that aren't tipping much any way very few scale a tip based on actual service - she was :censored: to our table, but we don't know what is going on her life so just give her 20%.   But don't insult him by rounding off incorrectly and giving him :2cents: he has to deal with.   And a billion other uncomfortable rules that are real or imagined.  Few things are more uncomfortable, quicker to ruin the experience than a discussion on the tip breaking out at your table.  I'm pretty certain that there is a pretty good correlation between a culture's "happiness index" and the culture's "tipping practices" and we Americans are miserable being on the wrong side.  

 

ETA: But the again maybe if asked you'd be right in that Americans say they like to tip.   Hostages tend to ...

What's interesting to me is when i travel to Italy (or used to travel), like many european countries, there is no tipping.  it is not part of their culture.  how this relates to the u.s., the minimum wage, this thread, this post and overall economics, i am just too lazy to figure out; however, people and businesses seem to survive there.  not sure what my point is.  maybe the point is that we as americans are conditioned.  conditioned to spend an extra 67% on food costs and 20% in tip for the dining out experience that some would argue is the backbone to our economy.  i just wonder if people will forever realize after this pandemic that the dining out experience is costly and possibly unnecessary to the extent it has been.  .  

i haven't looked at the biden plan, but am reading here aboot a $15 min wage federal side and bread skyrocketing to bitcoin levels, along with happy meals.  i think we all know increases won't be passed to the consumer, they will be passed to the worker in the form of reduced hours and staff.  somehow, mcdonalds will find a way to pay 4 people to do the work of 6 or 8.

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3 hours ago, Doug B said:

Gotcha.

Something else to think about that I didn't write above is that for a lot of mid- to low-end places (and virtually every chain or chain-ish place), employees are eminently replaceable. Being the rock-star server at, say, a Longhorn's Steakhouse does get you a lot of in-restaurant perks (better stations, pick of the schedule, getting away with small stuff, etc.). But when it comes to guaranteeing a base wage much above federal/state law? If you're really tight with management and they're truly loathe for you to leave ... you might be able to ask for and receive another buck an hour. Push that too far, though, and they're happy to stand their ground and let you know you're free to find work elsewhere. Most restaurants are happy to run through several trainees and see which one or two can replace their previous rock star.

TL:DR -- tipped employees at most places just don't have that kind of leverage.

Yeah, I'm talking more from an ownership perspective...so it would be from MY business, not a chain....and I can imagine what I proposed being more complicated from an accounting perspective.  

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How about we just get rid of that $15 minimum wage.  Get rid of that extra in unemployment.  Get rid of unemployment.  Not have any programs to defer or forgive or whatever for rent, mortgages, or any other commitments.   Not have any pandemic related loans or what not.  And the list of things to get rid of goes on and on.  Instead how about we just institute a UBI and M4A and call it a day.   Maybe we call this the the Covid New Deal or something catchy, but the positive end results will be lasting for as long as their is a republic.   And if we believe that automation is the threat to the middle class that some suggest or could be then lets pay for this and everything else via taxing consumption rather than income.  Lets not let this opportunity born of a crisis go to waste like we did the Great Recession a decade ago.  

Yeah, I know.  We got Biden so thinking big is unlikely.  But lets think for BIG for him. 

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23 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

How about we just get rid of that $15 minimum wage.  Get rid of that extra in unemployment.  Get rid of unemployment.  Not have any programs to defer or forgive or whatever for rent, mortgages, or any other commitments.   Not have any pandemic related loans or what not.  And the list of things to get rid of goes on and on.  Instead how about we just institute a UBI and M4A and call it a day.   Maybe we call this the the Covid New Deal or something catchy, but the positive end results will be lasting for as long as their is a republic.   And if we believe that automation is the threat to the middle class that some suggest or could be then lets pay for this and everything else via taxing consumption rather than income.  Lets not let this opportunity born of a crisis go to waste like we did the Great Recession a decade ago.  

Yeah, I know.  We got Biden so thinking big is unlikely.  But lets think for BIG for him. 

It’s not Biden (though I have no idea if he’s for or against UBI). You’re going to need a reconfiguration of our current political dynamic for something like that to happen. 

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4 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Minimum Wage Mandate in Biden’s Pandemic Relief Bill Estimated to Wipe Out 1.3 Million Jobs

https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/minimum-wage-mandate-in-bidens-pandemic-relief-bill-estimated-to-wipe-out-1-3-million-jobs_3658364.html

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No doubt that there will be a big winners/losers setup here.  I fully expect a lo of folks to be happy - the ones that retain employment.  I also fully expect a whole host of folks to be become unemployed as payroll is trimmed.

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If we were in the business of truth in advertising we'd name this bill the Ending the US Currency Reserve Status Bill - Salvo 1.

I fully expect more salvos - student loan forgiveness, state bailouts, climate bills.  We're destroying ourselves from within.

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32 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s not Biden (though I have no idea if he’s for or against UBI). You’re going to need a reconfiguration of our current political dynamic for something like that to happen. 

I think that someone that talked big with a large land slide victory (right?) could claim a mandate and expend his or her political capital to get this done in the midst of a pandemic.  But every day delay, every day that we are closer to normal (whatever the new normal will be), every "band aid" makes this impossible.   Now maybe a someone thinking big would have not had won this cycle (and I probably agree with this) but our big changes all happen when the GOP come in an rip up the tax code and ignore regulations while things are going good and then we get a crisis and democrats come in tip toeing around.  So if that is what you mean by political climate then sure.

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1 minute ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I think that someone that talked big with a large land slide victory (right?) could claim a mandate and expend his or her political capital to get this done in the midst of a pandemic.  But every day delay, every day that we are closer to normal (whatever the new normal will be), every "band aid" makes this impossible.   Now maybe a someone thinking big would have not had won this cycle (and I probably agree with this) but our big changes all happen when the GOP come in an rip up the tax code and ignore regulations while things are going good and then we get a crisis and democrats come in tip toeing around.  So if that is what you mean by political climate then sure.

Except this wasn't a landslide victory.  Reagan's victory was a landslide.  This wasn't that.  Not even close.

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