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Biden’s plan: 1.9 trillion for Covid relief


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1 hour ago, dawgtrails said:

It is a great step. But really, there is beyond zero reasons why we can't properly feed and house children in this country. Yes, some parents suck, but the kids deserve way better from us

I accidentally hit the laughing emoji when I meant the crying one. I think I fixed it but just wanted to say it's not funny to me. It breaks my heart. You're 100% right. 

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8 hours ago, caustic said:

I think my favorite part of the bill is the child tax credit expansion. The consequences of living in poverty as a child are terrible and Biden’s proposal would reduce childhood poverty by 40%. That is massive.

Mine as well and it’s the part least talked about 

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Right now I am a little pissed about paying off my student loan fast. 

I drove a 12 year old vehicle when I could have been riding in style and just paying the minimum on my loans. Does anyone know if people like me who paid debt off get some sort of refund or tax break if they forgive debt?

I paid 500 a month for 4 years when I could have just paid 100 a month so I should get something in return.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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1 minute ago, Summer Wheat said:

Right now I am a little pissed about paying off my student loan fast. 

I drove a 12 year old vehicle when I could have been riding in style and just paying the minimum on my loans. Does anyone know if people like me who paid debt off get some sort of refund or tax break if they forgive debt?

I paid 500 a month for 4 years when I could have just paid 100 a month so I should get something in return.

Why? Nothing has passed yet. Hell, nothing is even proposed yet. Biden already seems to be waffling on the issue. But to answer your question if something does pass, you’ll be #### out of luck. 

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24 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Right now I am a little pissed about paying off my student loan fast. 

I drove a 12 year old vehicle when I could have been riding in style and just paying the minimum on my loans. Does anyone know if people like me who paid debt off get some sort of refund or tax break if they forgive debt?

I paid 500 a month for 4 years when I could have just paid 100 a month so I should get something in return.

What did people get when they continued to pay their mortgage instead of walking away from their home during the housing collapse? Life is rarely fair unfortunately. In this situation though, removing the crippling debt from your fellow citizens should, in theory, give them more money to spend which is good for the economy and hopefully that does benefit you down the road. Good for the gander and all that. 

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1 minute ago, CR69 said:

What did people get when they continued to pay their mortgage instead of walking away from their home during the housing collapse? Life is rarely fair unfortunately. In this situation though, removing the crippling debt from your fellow citizens should, in theory, give them more money to spend which is good for the economy and hopefully that does benefit you down the road. Good for the gander and all that. 

Hey..I promise I will buy a brand new vehicle if I get 30K back.  30K is what I borrowed..that is not counting what I saved and paid on time for tuition. Did not graduate until I was 25 as I paid my own way for everything.

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6 minutes ago, CR69 said:

What did people get when they continued to pay their mortgage instead of walking away from their home during the housing collapse? Life is rarely fair unfortunately. In this situation though, removing the crippling debt from your fellow citizens should, in theory, give them more money to spend which is good for the economy and hopefully that does benefit you down the road. Good for the gander and all that. 

This is a sad excuse, if you are going to forgive a certain amount of college debt then that same amount should be given to all citizens. Forgiven debt just for the irresponsible is a terrible precedent to set. 

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35 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Right now I am a little pissed about paying off my student loan fast. 

I drove a 12 year old vehicle when I could have been riding in style and just paying the minimum on my loans. Does anyone know if people like me who paid debt off get some sort of refund or tax break if they forgive debt?

I paid 500 a month for 4 years when I could have just paid 100 a month so I should get something in return.

Sadly you did things the right way and there’s nothing in the current Democratic proposals to take care of people like you. The right thing to do is not just reward the irresponsible, go ahead and give the money to everyone if set on this handout. 

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8 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Hey..I promise I will buy a brand new vehicle if I get 30K back.  30K is what I borrowed..that is not counting what I saved and paid on time for tuition. Did not graduate until I was 25 as I paid my own way for everything.

I didn't go to college because I couldn't afford it, needed to work full time and didn't want to take on a ton of debt. What do I get?

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It sucks for those who either lived at home and went to school, worked through college, paid off their loans already etc. That said, if this were a priority for Biden he would have put the proposal in his COVID relief bill. He’s already said he won’t try and delete debt through executive order. My guess.......nothing happens and it’s another campaign promise four years from now. 

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1 hour ago, GoBirds said:

if you are going to forgive a certain amount of college debt then that same amount should be given to all citizens. Forgiven debt just for the irresponsible is a terrible precedent to set. 

100% agree.   Glad to see a subject we agree on GoBirds.   🤝

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I mean the student loan forgiveness would benefit me a great deal. Would knock 10,000 off mine and 10,000 off my oldest daughters. But that’s such a dumb idea. If you want to do anything focus on college costs and giving kids as much money as they want in the first place. Drop the interest rate on current loans to zero, rates are near zero anyways. Government still charging 5-6% on student loans is loan sharking. Literally nobody would have a problem with that. 

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1 hour ago, Summer Wheat said:

Hey..I promise I will buy a brand new vehicle if I get 30K back.  30K is what I borrowed..that is not counting what I saved and paid on time for tuition. Did not graduate until I was 25 as I paid my own way for everything.

Same here.  I paid back 16K in loans, worked two jobs to do it.  

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Should also be some sort of cost analysis done on majors and how much money you can borrow for said major. There’s no way any young adult should come out of college with 150k in student loans and a bachelors degree in social work. 

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15 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Should ask so be some sort of cost analysis done on majors and how much money you can borrow for said major. There’s no way any young adult should come out of college with 150k in student loans and a bachelors degree in social work. 

Purdue U agrees with you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/08/purdue-university-introduces-first-income-sharing-agreement-for-students-.html

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Just going to point out the obvious.....not all college students (not even "most") are in debt because they are "irresponsible"....that's a red herring that serves no purpose.  Are there some?  Absolutely.  It's not close to the number many would like you to believe.

That said...not a fan of debt forgiveness, but I do think it should be allowed to be settled through bankruptcy and I am 100000% aware of the ramifications that would introduce and I"m ok with those.  Rip the bandaid off and start new.

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1 hour ago, fruity pebbles said:

Should also be some sort of cost analysis done on majors and how much money you can borrow for said major. There’s no way any young adult should come out of college with 150k in student loans and a bachelors degree in social work. 

I agree with most of this - but social workers are the best among us. The #### they go through each day and all for a barely above minimum wage is a disgrace. Degrees such as social work should be free if it were up to me

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20 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

I agree with most of this - but social workers are the best among us. The #### they go through each day and all for a barely above minimum wage is a disgrace. Degrees such as social work should be free if it were up to me

I believe they are through the federal loan forgiveness program. 

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Just going to point out the obvious.....not all college students (not even "most") are in debt because they are "irresponsible"....that's a red herring that serves no purpose.  Are there some?  Absolutely.  It's not close to the number many would like you to believe.

That said...not a fan of debt forgiveness, but I do think it should be allowed to be settled through bankruptcy and I am 100000% aware of the ramifications that would introduce and I"m ok with those.  Rip the bandaid off and start new.

My own proposal is to allow them to be settled in the form of first mortgages on home purchases- sort of a new GI bill for student debt. 

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58 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

I agree with most of this - but social workers are the best among us. The #### they go through each day and all for a barely above minimum wage is a disgrace. Degrees such as social work should be free if it were up to me

Honorable profession no doubt but a student loan should be a loan against future earning. Government can't expect to be paid back when the loan amount is four times the yearly salary 

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The problem many have is a four-year dergree at a state school may not get you the job you want.  Now you go for your masters and bury yourself in more debt.  It's hard to ask someone who didn't have the means to go to college to help with the forgiveness of someone who could.  

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Forgiveness of student debt is not a good idea. I hope the Dems drop it. It does not make sense.

If you want to help people in need, help people in need. Don't just wipe out everyone's debt. Especially when college grads are generally more financially secure than non-college grads.

 

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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I haven’t worked it out yet LOL. Somehow the mortgage company assumes the student loan, and the former student buys a house. 

I’m not sure mortgage companies will be lining up for these loans that are over leveraged, not to mention the borrowers already poor track record of paying back their debts. 

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12 hours ago, timschochet said:

I haven’t worked it out yet LOL. Somehow the mortgage company assumes the student loan, and the former student buys a house. 

You actually can kinda do this already. FNMA will allow proceeds to pay off student loans on an owner occupied refinance without it being subject to the rates of a cash out. I’d have to double check on the LTV limit though, I’ve never actually done one. 

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On 1/15/2021 at 6:36 AM, parasaurolophus said:

Love that this is the last thing mentioned... ho hum...schluff into bill

A $15 minimum wage. Biden’s proposal asks Congress to increase the minimum wage to $15 per hour as well as ending the tipped minimum wage and sub-minimum wage for people with disabilities. It also calls on employers to provide hazard pay.

Speaking of the minimum wage...

https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1351015487950491650 (link to NYT article)

For those who say raising the min wage would make prices skyrocket McDonald's workers in Denmark get $22/hour, 6 weeks paid vacation, year paid maternity leave, pension + universal health care/sick leave Denmark Big Macs cost 27 cents more than U.S. ones

 

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1 hour ago, CR69 said:

You actually can kinda do this already. FNMA will allow proceeds to pay off student loans on an owner occupied refinance without it being subject to the rates of a cash out. I’d have to double check on the LTV limit though, I’ve never actually done one. 

Right. But I’m thinking about new purchases. Something to the effect that loan payments could be used to purchase for a first time homeowner. 
In any case student loans are not part of Biden’s package so I’m not sure how they worked their way into this thread. 

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6 minutes ago, squistion said:

Speaking of the minimum wage...

https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1351015487950491650 (link to NYT article)

For those who say raising the min wage would make prices skyrocket McDonald's workers in Denmark get $22/hour, 6 weeks paid vacation, year paid maternity leave, pension + universal health care/sick leave Denmark Big Macs cost 27 cents more than U.S. ones

 

Meh.  That could just be a sign that the Euro-dollar exchange rate is out of whack right now.

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8 minutes ago, squistion said:

Speaking of the minimum wage...

https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1351015487950491650 (link to NYT article)

For those who say raising the min wage would make prices skyrocket McDonald's workers in Denmark get $22/hour, 6 weeks paid vacation, year paid maternity leave, pension + universal health care/sick leave Denmark Big Macs cost 27 cents more than U.S. ones

 

Wait, I was told Happy Meals would be $14 if we did this!

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7 hours ago, derek245583 said:

Why do we call it debt forgiveness? Isn’t it debt transfer? Are the banks being instructed to just eat their losses?

Funny, my daughter was over last night and this is what I told her. She was giddy at the prospect of having some of her college debt forgiven. Told it wasn’t being forgiven, just transferred to others to pay.

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11 hours ago, derek245583 said:

Why do we call it debt forgiveness? Isn’t it debt transfer? Are the banks being instructed to just eat their losses?

Probably because like always, we won't let banks lose money.   Somehow we will end up taking on the loans/losses, and make taxpayers eat the cost.  Which means the rest of us are paying for it.   Which would happen anyway if banks eat the losses, because they would just find more hidden fees to screw us with.

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On 1/17/2021 at 1:08 PM, fruity pebbles said:

I mean the student loan forgiveness would benefit me a great deal. Would knock 10,000 off mine and 10,000 off my oldest daughters. But that’s such a dumb idea. If you want to do anything focus on college costs and giving kids as much money as they want in the first place. Drop the interest rate on current loans to zero, rates are near zero anyways. Government still charging 5-6% on student loans is loan sharking. Literally nobody would have a problem with that. 

This.  I've never cared for the idea of forgiveness, it's truly just transferring the debt, but I would fully support eliminating the interest.  A one time student loan debt elimination does nothing to address the ongoing concern of the rising cost of college, nor the problem of degrees with very limited future prospects.  Do we just try to do it again next election cycle?  Eliminate the interest, and focus on the root of the problem... why is it costing this much to get into careers that rarely justify the expense?

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11 hours ago, derek245583 said:

Why do we call it debt forgiveness? Isn’t it debt transfer? Are the banks being instructed to just eat their losses?

Because we are selfish as a people and can't seem to look beyond our personal wants/desires?

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Instead of forgiving it on the backside, can we attack the reason why somebody needs to go $50-100K in debt for a basic degree?  I am guessing most of us remember being able to work and pay off your college.   I just checked the UW-Madison site, and the tuition is 10x+ what it was when I was there years ago.   I guarantee that college grads aren't making 10x more than they were 30 years ago.   

 

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7 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Instead of forgiving it on the backside, can we attack the reason why somebody needs to go $50-100K in debt for a basic degree?  I am guessing most of us remember being able to work and pay off your college.   I just checked the UW-Madison site, and the tuition is 10x+ what it was when I was there years ago.   I guarantee that college grads aren't making 10x more than they were 30 years ago.   

 

Exactly.  And until we address the root cause, all the rest of this is just utter nonsense.   

BTW - shout out to another Madison grad.   My tuition was ~$3,000 per year.   It was incredibly easy to A) save money before college, B) get part-time jobs......to pay off my tuition bill.   People who say "what's wrong with these kids, I paid my way through college and paid off my debt" are essentially ignorant or math illiterate.  It is a different ballgame now.  

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32 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Instead of forgiving it on the backside, can we attack the reason why somebody needs to go $50-100K in debt for a basic degree?  I am guessing most of us remember being able to work and pay off your college.   I just checked the UW-Madison site, and the tuition is 10x+ what it was when I was there years ago.   I guarantee that college grads aren't making 10x more than they were 30 years ago.   

 

A good portion of the reason why is because the debtors can't get out of them....there is very little to no risk for the lenders.  Free flow of that kind of money allows schools to just raise their prices.

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23 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Exactly.  And until we address the root cause, all the rest of this is just utter nonsense.   

BTW - shout out to another Madison grad.   My tuition was ~$3,000 per year.   It was incredibly easy to A) save money before college, B) get part-time jobs......to pay off my tuition bill.   People who say "what's wrong with these kids, I paid my way through college and paid off my debt" are essentially ignorant or math illiterate.  It is a different ballgame now.  

Does that put you at the UW about '97 or so?   I was there '93-'97, and I think the highest mine got to was in that 1400-1500/semester range, but I am not 100% sure.   I think when I started it was about 1200/semester.  

Yeah, it's sad when I have to talk to my son about these things.  I know in the past he has said he's thought about teaching, and it's sad that the first thing that pops into my head is "oof - $100k for a degree you will be paying off for decades at that salary?".    It makes my stomach churn when I talk to the kids that work at the store about how much their school is and what they are going for.   So much debt.  

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5 minutes ago, The Commish said:

A good portion of the reason why is because the debtors can't get out of them....there is very little to no risk for the lenders.  Free flow of that kind of money allows schools to just raise their prices.

Very good point.  If you can't get out of it and declare bankruptcy, why not make it 50K a year to go to school? 

ETA:  Would a good start to be instead focusing on rules about that? 

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8 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Very good point.  If you can't get out of it and declare bankruptcy, why not make it 50K a year to go to school? 

ETA:  Would a good start to be instead focusing on rules about that? 

Personally, I think it's both....

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