What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

How The Democratic Party Left The White Working Class Behind (1/15 23:48 PST) (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Direct Headline: How Liberals Left the White Working Class Behind

White working-class anger has been simmering for decades, due to globalization, wage stagnation, and the myth of meritocracy.

By Erica Etelson Dec 16, 2019

https://www.yesmagazine.org/democracy/2019/12/16/book-politics-divide/

VIDEO: America's forgotten working class | J.D. Vance

254,820 views •Oct 17, 2016

J.D. Vance grew up in a small, poor city in the Rust Belt of southern Ohio, where he had a front-row seat to many of the social ills plaguing America: a heroin epidemic, failing schools, families torn apart by divorce and sometimes violence. In a searching talk that will echo throughout the country's working-class towns, the author details what the loss of the American Dream feels like and raises an important question that everyone from community leaders to policy makers needs to ask: How can we help kids from America's forgotten places break free from hopelessness and live better lives?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEy-xTbcr2A

VIDEO: J.D. Vance on Trump's relationship with rural America

51,628 views •Dec 31, 2017

J.D. Vance, best-selling author of Hillbilly Elegy, sits down with CBS News Chief White House Correspondent Major Garrett to reflect on President Trump's relationship with rural America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eljLSzocJwo

 
VIDEO: Don Lemon: Everyone Who Voted For Trump Sided With ‘The Klan,’ ‘Nazis,’ Rioters

367,186 views •Jan 14, 2021

CNN anchor Don Lemon made sweeping allegations that Americans who voted for President Donald Trump stood with “the Klan” and “Nazis” on Wednesday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs8HY8Lo5wM

Direct Headline: Can We Talk? Here’s Why the White Working Class Hates Democrats

Kevin Drum  November 13, 2014

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/11/can-we-talk-heres-why-white-working-class-hates-democrats/

Direct Headline: The Original Underclass

Poor white Americans’ current crisis shouldn’t have caught the rest of the country as off guard as it has.

Story by Alec MacGillis and ProPublica September 2016 Issue

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-original-underclass/492731/

 
Direct Headline: White men are now the Democratic Party's punching bag. That's a dangerous bet to make.

We have Donald Trump to thank for much of our current incivility, but today’s Democratic Party is predicated on open hostility toward white citizens.

Saritha Prabhu October 28, 2018

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2018/10/28/white-male-bashing-trend-dangerous-saritha-prabhu-column/1778385002/

Direct Headline: What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class

by Joan C. Williams November 10, 2016

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

Direct Headline: Democrats fail to persuade swaths of rural America's heartlands

Chris McGreal in Des Moines, Iowa 15 Dec 2020 09.29 EST

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/04/democrats-fail-persuade-rural-america-heartlands-us-election-2020-trump

 
PARAPHRASED CONTENT FROM ALL ARTICLES/VIDEOS TO REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH SINGLE USER FBG FORUM POSTING GUIDELINES:

( As Per 1/4/21 12:33 PST,  https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/790107-healing-and-moving-forward-thoughts/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-23172408 )

".....today’s Democratic Party is predicated on holding and expressing open hostility toward white citizens..... and making the dangerous bet that most minorities and immigrants.... will jump on the white-male-bashing bandwagon....." 

"...... the dream is not to become upper-middle-class....but to be independent ...and not have to take... from anybody else....Owning one’s own business — that’s the overall goal.... that’s another part of Trump’s rural appeal...."

".......Trump’s blunt talk taps into a main blue-collar value: straight talk...... directness is a working-class norm.... you want something done right, you come talk to me..... I don’t like those folks who play these two-faced games......”

".......Trump promises a world free of political correctness and a return to an earlier prosperous era....it's comfort food for those high-school-educated guys... wishing they’d been born 30 years earlier.... today they all feel like losers — or they did until they met Trump....."

".....Manly dignity and breadwinner status is a big deal for men. .....many still measure their masculinity by the size of a paycheck..... White working-class men’s wages hit the skids in the 1970s... and took another huge body blow during the Great Recession.......for many blue-collar men, all they’re asking for is basic human dignity (honest meaningful work)..... Trump promised to deliver it...."

"......The Democrats’ solution?.... Last week the New York Times published an article advising men with only high-school educations.... to take pink-collar jobs...... Talk about open insensitivity....."

"......WWC (White Working Class) women voted for Trump over Clinton by a whopping 28-point margin — 62% to 34%..... If they’d split 50-50, she would have won..... Class definitely trumps gender.... and it’s driving all of American politics...."

"......the poor, in the bottom 30% of American families.... are very much different from Americans who are literally in the middle ( 50% of families where median income was $64,000 in 2008 )....."

"...... the elite economy is more concentrated than ever in a handful of winner-take-all cities...per capita income of Washington, D.C., in 1980 was 29 percent above the average for Americans as a whole versus in 2013, that figure was 68 percent.... In the Bay Area, per capita income jumped from 50 percent to 88 percent above average...and in New York, from 80 percent to 172 percent....."

"......they want is what my father-in-law had.... those steady, stable, full-time jobs that deliver a solid middle-class life to the 75% of Americans.... who don’t have a college degree of any kind..... Trump promises that.... I doubt he’ll deliver this.... but at least he understands what they need...."

"......Progressives have lavished attention on the poor... for over a century.....led to many social programs targeting them....but programs that help the poor but exclude the middle may keep costs and tax rates lower.... but they are a recipe for clear class conflict. ( Example: 28.3% of poor families receive child-care subsidies... which are largely nonexistent for the middle class)....."

"...... Vance’s book passes harsh judgments on his hard-living relatives.... which is not uncommon among ...families who kept their nose clean through sheer force of will.....This is a second open source of resentment against the poor...."

“.....At a deeper financial level.... both parties need an economic program ....that can deliver middle-class jobs.... Republicans have chosenone: Unleash American business....and Democrats? They remain obsessed with cultural issues..... I fully understand why transgender bathrooms are important.... but I also understand why progressives’ obsession with prioritizing many cultural issues infuriates... those Americans whose chief concerns are economic......economic resentment has fueled racial anxiety.... But to write off WWC anger as nothing more than racism.... is bad intellectual comfort food.... and it is very dangerous....."

"......( Trumps) signature strength or weakness — depending on who you’re speaking to ....is his direct.... off-the-cuff, flagrantly non-politically-correct way of talking about the issues.....the left has responded with .... this broad-brush-strategy of portraying all Trump supporters as bigots...and white men .... as villains of both history and contemporary politics....."

"....there are invisible institutional forces that even now keep minorities and working class whites....further down in the power and economic structures.....one can have historical and contemporary awareness of these inequities and injustices... without having hateful feelings toward the ordinary white citizens around us in the world....."

"...... how do we appeal to a  demographic group.... that voted so heavily against us?... that party is the Democrats.... and the demographic group is the infamous white working class.... which voted Republican across the ticket (specific district).... by a 30-point margin last week...."

"...... the issues on which the Democratic Party is most coherent these days.... is social progressivism….But while these issues unite college-educated voters and many working-class minority voters....they’ve historically alienated the white working class....."

 
"..... why does the WWC continue to loathe the Democrats so badly?.....when the economy stagnates and life gets harder...people just get meaner...and that’s just human nature......  the economy has been stagnating for the working class for well over a decade....practically collapsing ever since 2008...."

".......So who does the WWC take out its anger on?..... Largely, the answer is the poor..... In particular, the undeserving poor.... Liberals may hate this distinction, but it doesn’t matter if we hate it. .... That’s because they’re closer to it.....they’re the folks next door who don’t do a lick of work but somehow keep getting government checks.... paid for by their tax dollars....And who is it that’s responsible for this infuriating flow of government money to the shiftless? Democrats.... We fight to save food stamps, WIC, Medicaid expansion, Obamacare and to move poor families into nearby housing....."

"......Helping the poor is one of the great causes of liberalism..... And yet... the Democratic Party simply doesn’t do much for either the working or middle classes these days..... Republicans, by contrast, offer both the concrete - tax cuts—and the emotional—an ...still intense rage against a government that seems not to care about them....."

"......Our economy is being rocked by hugely disruptive enterprises .... that have reduced many workers to underpaid piecework in the gig economy....Artificial intelligence breakthroughs will only elevate this level of disruption......Successful technocrats .... sneer at others’ failure to get with the program..... others lean into the myth of the meritocracy to rationalize their wealth, glossing over the intrinsic inequality of a meritocracy..... in which, by definition, there are winners and losers. ...."

"......Fewer than half of Americans born in 1980 will earn as much as their parents..... compared to 79% of those born in 1950 ....and 92% of those born in 1940..... Low-wage White workers have seen their pay stagnate or decrease for decades.....( Since 1971)....the percentage of middle-class households has fallen by 10%.... Little wonder that the middle class looks with hopeful anticipation upon the rich and with anxious dread upon the very poor......"

"......and poor people are regarded as losers.... when they’re regarded at all.... The bipartisan myth of the meritocracy... has effectively displaced altruistic values of community and care.... resulting in social conditions sh*****tty enough to impel nearly 5% of all Americans to try to take their own lives....."

".......Coincident with economic precarity ...are several significant demographic and cultural shifts (The proportion of Whites in America has decreased from 88% in 1970 to 72% in 2010) .....currently women compete with men in the work-place, gender identities are in flux, multiculturalism is the norm, marriage equality is the law of the land, and there’s a new lexicon for discussing race and gender....Whites are, ... overrepresented in higher education, politics, corporate management, and prestigious professions like law, medicine, and journalism.... but not working-class Whites.... and their well-being, as measured by life expectancy, health, education, and income...is declining....."

"...... As economic inequality hits new extremes, oligarchs are more than happy to have non-rich Whites blame immigrants.... and people of color for their inability to get ahead...... Those who are down-and-out have only one of three explanations for their circumstances.....—the system is flawed; or they’re losers who have only themselves to blame; or it’s the fault of .... their liberal coddlers...... "

"......Liberal professionals look upon nationalism with ... horror, because all they will see is the racist aspect..... but nationalism is a reaction to the detrimental impacts of globalization..... (Two-thirds of working-class Whites and three- quarters of Trump primary voters see trade deals as harmful to American workers)...when Trump tells them he will bring back their jobs..... by destroying unpopular trade and climate deals....that sounds pretty damn good...."

"..... ( Pat Murray, Democratic Board of Supervisors).....Democrats always say we’re going to fight for the rights of working people......The last few elections... we just haven’t shown that at all......”

".....Eleven percent of Black 2012 Obama voters stayed home in 2016.... representing 1.6 million votes.... many of them in swing states that Trump won by razor-thin margins.... Some black residents told reporters they were disillusioned..... with how little their lives had improved after eight years of Obama...... and couldn’t bring themselves to vote (again)..... (Stanley Greenberg ) ....'The Democrats don’t have a ‘White working-class problem.’ They have a ‘working-class problem' ......"

".....In becoming the party of upper-middle-class professionals that....no longer speaks to those people on the losing end of a free-market system.... that is clearly becoming more brutal and arrogant by the day.....deploring and denouncing the would-be dictator Trump has entirely crowded out the  important task of assessing where the Democratic Party went wrong…there are social and political conditions, other than or in addition to bigotry.... that make many working- and lower-middle- class people feel totally left behind......”

"...... ( Charles Murray’s Coming Apart: The State of White America,  and Robert D. Putnam’s Our Kids: The American Dream in Crisis )....  that social breakdown among low-income whites was starting to mimic trends that had begun decades earlier among African Americans.... out-of-wedlock births and male joblessness were rising sharply... and a surge in opiate addiction among white Americans....The question was suddenly no longer why Democrats struggled to appeal to so many regular Americans.... It was why so many average Americans were drawn to a man like Donald Trump...."

".....Equally jarring has been the shift in tone..... A barely suppressed contempt has characterized ....the commentary about white woe...and scorn on the low-income white Republican voters who..... were (perceived as the) most responsible for the rise of Trump...."

".....Several prominent liberals have theorized that .....the truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die.... that economically, they are negative assets.... and morally, they are indefensible… that the white American underclass is ... a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles..... that Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good.... and so does OxyContin...."

"....One of America’s founding myths, of course, is that the simple act of leaving England ..... had an equalizing effect on the colonists, swiftly narrowing the distance between indentured servant and merchant landowner .....the Founding Fathers were..... complicit in perpetuating these stark class divides..... George Washington believed that only the “lower class of people” should serve as foot soldiers in the Continental Army..... Thomas Jefferson envisioned his public schools educating talented students .... and argued that ranking humans like animal breeds was perfectly natural....."

"...(JD Vance a self-described conservative).... is trying to figure out how things went totally wrong for his people...And questions nag at him: 'Why are people like me so poorly represented in America’s elite institutions?'....  thinking about … how close I was to the abyss, gives me chills....."

".....( RE:Vance) How much of our lives, good and bad, should we credit to our personal decisions and choices...., and how much is just the inheritance of our culture.. from our families and our parents who have failed all their children?... Where does blame stop and sympathy truly begin?..."

".....( RE:Vance) ....The government can’t possibly cure those ills.... he exhorts the wide community of hillbillies to wake the hell up.... and seize control of its fate.....Public policy can help some.... but there is no government that can fix these problems for us … These problems were not created by governments or corporations or anyone else.... we created these problems... and only we can fix them...."

".....( Vance, tired of folks back home talking big about hard work when they are collecting checks just like the people they denigrate and the lies we tell ourselves ) .... 'Whenever people ask me what I’d most like to change.... about the problems of the white working class....I say, it's the feeling that our choices don’t even matter.’ ....."

 
CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL:

VIDEO: Trump launches attack on Lady Gaga after she appears to mock rural Americans in pro-Biden video

86,585 views •Nov 2, 2020

President Donald Trump has launched an attack on Lady Gaga after she posted a bizarre video where she endorsed Joe Biden for president while also appearing to mock rednecks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maLFuKVnbgU

VIDEO: Why the poorest county in West Virginia has faith in Donald Trump | Anywhere but Washington

6,481,222 views •Oct 13, 2016

Donald Trump was more popular in McDowell County than anywhere else in America during the Republican primaries. Paul Lewis explores the power of the Republican presidential nominee’s message in the poorest county of West Virginia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqceHviNBC4

VIDEO: Why Hollywood Elites Rejected ‘Hillbilly Elegy’

876,663 views •Dec 5, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12ChbJqcv-g

VIDEO: J.D. Vance | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 109

268,153 views •Dec 6, 2020

Four years ago, Hillbilly Elegy was a well regarded memoir, now, with its 2020 Netflix adaptation, the work has become critically panned and the subject of endless controversy. The author, J.D. Vance, wrote about his upbringing in the Appalachian regions of Kentucky and Middletown, Ohio. A look into the history and values in this area of the country, it was recommended by mainstream outlets and cultural leaders in mass for insight into the plights of the white working class that impacted the 2016 election. That praise was short lived, however, when the nearly unanimous edict came down from the media that the trials of impoverished white Americans were insignificant and should be ignored. J.D. joins the show to discuss the book, the media’s harsh shift, and how conservatives can connect with the Appalachian and Rust Belt regions of the country moving forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRgrBtADM3k

 
Seriously?

the topic is a good talking point, but the sheer volume of posting makes it impossible to digest. Have a thought for the reader. Save some stuff for talking points after some readers are engaged. 

You are not a dummy. Intelligence comes through, but either post a blog or let others be involved in discussion. 

 
Seriously?

the topic is a good talking point, but the sheer volume of posting makes it impossible to digest. Have a thought for the reader. Save some stuff for talking points after some readers are engaged. 

You are not a dummy. Intelligence comes through, but either post a blog or let others be involved in discussion. 
The first post completely mischaracterizes the content of the article.  I stopped there.  It’s baffling that this alias is allowed to post.  People get banned for months for criticizing Fox News talking heads, or making a joke about current events.  But this is ok?  
 

I assume it’s Dodds, so there’s nothing they can do.  

 
ANALYSIS:

**What should terrify people is the open acceptance of identity politics. It happens when you define the world between good and bad (or in this case, what remains of Obama's intersectional coalition mandate for the DNC versus poor white Americans) and you can only hold the viewpoint that all of your compatriots as good and noble and worthy. Then when you have all the power ( A super majority, the left leaning MSM, Big Education, Big Tech, Big Social Media, Hollywood, BLM, the woke cancel culture, etc, etc), you believe you can do no wrong. If you begin to see some of your fellow compatriots doing something that you don't understand or it doesn't fit into a very very very narrow ideology, then it just means that they are just not a good enough follower and have to work more relentlessly to match your level of goodness and prove their loyalty. Or else they must suffer. The unfortunate tragedy is that people who engage to this kind of thinking rarely fully wake up to their intolerance because they tie their identity so strongly to their causes.

Trump did not lead some mass army of racists and white supremacists. There are factions of those who exists on the right side of the spectrum sadly. But no one can blame the entire range of Republicans and conservatives in that light, more than we could claim every Democrat is a molotov cocktail wielding Antifa domestic terrorist. It's simply a thinly packaged narrative to hide "The Great Reset" where mega corporations want to keep the masses fighting amongst themselves instead of seeing they are simply cattle being lead to the slaughter in the name of capitalism that has morphed into a brutal feudal system. If Trump didn't exist, the problems with poor whites and rural America would still be here today. They are not the enemy, they are fellow Americans who need help in so much as many people do, including blacks, gays, women and those with a more marketable political cause behind them. And yes, there are those who game the system and abuse it, but the collapse of any segment of our nation becomes a tax, not just financially, but also emotionally and ethically, upon which we all must suffer that burden.

Both sides of the aisle wish to paint enemies along racial lines because it's politically expedient. It latches unto our fears and suffering without looking at the deeper class division and wealth inequality. The GOP is no less culpable here, they are also guilty of waging this same toxic narrative upon the masses. Did Trump, a failed 4th rate reality TV star and open narcissist seize the easiest path to votes here? Sure, but it doesn't change the real problems in place. These problems need addressing and it's not as simple as Orange Man Bad to package decades of dysfunction into a bite sized Twitter narrative.

What is the truth? It's that the vast majority of people in the country are laborers who should be united in opposing the political and corporate few who make laws and foster a system that simply don't work to make the lives of the average American better, but so often the people at large get mislead by irrelevant cultural issues that misconstrue the opposition. Like JD Vance says, this is bread and circuses, we must, as a collective, rise up and save ourselves. No one else will do it for us. **

 
the topic is a good talking point...let others be involved in discussion. 


OK, let's have a discussion, the two of us right here and right now. I've always said, if someone asks me a fair question, I want to make the gesture to respond with a fair and thoughtful answer when possible.

I believe the issue of impoverished white America and rural America is vastly underrepresented in terms of public policy and media narrative in general. This is clearly political strategy on one end, but I could also argue here in this sub forum, since that demographic will probably not tend to line up to the demographic of most regular veteran posters here, that this specific topic is often overlooked.

Which is why I brought it up. In vast detail apparently.

So, let's have this discussion. What would you suggest would be a good bi-partisan way to address the concerns and needs of this disenfranchised group? Poor white folks in rural areas are also Americans, and it's shameful, in my view, to see so many cast in such a bad light by the mass media, Hollywood, pop culture, etc, etc when we live in a society that demands, almost to the point of open extortion, the idea of tolerance and diversity. When the woke cancel culture decides that Amy Adams is the enemy, I posit that something has gone very very wrong and very quickly.

I would like to hear your thoughts. Let's engage.

 
OK, let's have a discussion, the two of us right here and right now. I've always said, if someone asks me a fair question, I want to make the gesture to respond with a fair and thoughtful answer when possible.

I believe the issue of impoverished white America and rural America is vastly underrepresented in terms of public policy and media narrative in general. This is clearly political strategy on one end, but I could also argue here in this sub forum, since that demographic will probably not tend to line up to the demographic of most regular veteran posters here, that this specific topic is often overlooked.

Which is why I brought it up. In vast detail apparently.

So, let's have this discussion. What would you suggest would be a good bi-partisan way to address the concerns and needs of this disenfranchised group? Poor white folks in rural areas are also Americans, and it's shameful, in my view, to see so many cast in such a bad light by the mass media, Hollywood, pop culture, etc, etc when we live in a society that demands, almost to the point of open extortion, the idea of tolerance and diversity. When the woke cancel culture decides that Amy Adams is the enemy, I posit that something has gone very very wrong and very quickly.

I would like to hear your thoughts. Let's engage.
I agree...sort of.

Poverty, in all races needs to be addressed. Poor and working class black people have way more in common with poor and working class white people. Their common enemy is the political and richer classes, who seek to divide and conquer. Its much easier for the political class to divide these groups up so that the power remains in the right hands. 

Trump played the perfect hand at embracing these voters, despite his clear disdain and obvious hatred of them. He needed them and they needed to hear a voice that was listening. The people chose the wrong voice, but at least someone was asking for their help. For decades the elites have spoken down to their bases, refused to help and made their quality of living worse. These are the building blocks of revolution and Trump was the revolution. Unfortunately the emperor wasnt fit to serve. 

Solutions are easy, but wont happen. Cut military spending or at least heavily use the money better. Everyone else has to budget and use their money wisely. Simple cuts here funds health, education, policing etc. if someone has a job that meets their economic desires, gives them reasonable satisfaction and prospects they arent likely to he a threat to society. A full belly and roof is a base desire. Degrading service jobs with no power to the employee, poor conditions and no prospects is the quickest way to kill someones will. 

China is coming fast and within 20 years will be not only the world economic power, but the political and spiritual leader. They have the advantage of being able to do what they want, how they want. We all better hope Xi Jinping is not an evil guy and just seeks chinese dominance through economic power. If the USA doesnt work together, it is doomed to failure. China and its belt and road initiative have their paws in dozens of countries already. 

 
VIDEO: Don Lemon: Everyone Who Voted For Trump Sided With ‘The Klan,’ ‘Nazis,’ Rioters

367,186 views •Jan 14, 2021

CNN anchor Don Lemon made sweeping allegations that Americans who voted for President Donald Trump stood with “the Klan” and “Nazis” on Wednesday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs8HY8Lo5wM
A Ben Shapiro video where he babbles for about 3 minutes before showing a Don Lemon clip in which he does not say that everyone who voted for Trump stood with the KKK or Nazis as Shapiro claims.

 
This is a great topic, and I agree entirely with JML's post. I'll just add that both Democrats and Republicans have effectively divided the working class as a whole,  to the benefit of the upper class. The Republicans have been more blatant about dividing the poor, by expressly telling whites that brown people are to blame for their economic woes. The Dems have taken a subtler approach, IMO, not always expressly blaming whites, but certainly telling whites that their problems are less important than the concerns of brown people. 

Regardless of the approach, however, both major parties are guilty, and the people are also guilty of buying in to the division.  

 
A Ben Shapiro video where he babbles for about 3 minutes before showing a Don Lemon clip in which he does not say that everyone who voted for Trump stood with the KKK or Nazis as Shapiro claims.


VIDEO: CNN's Don Lemon says Trump voters are on the side of Nazis & the Klan

707 views •Jan 14, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRJsD7xvOMY

VIDEO: Shillue: Who checks the fact-checkers?

10,740 views •Mar 8, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyC8Xjjyymc

******

Then tell us what Don Lemon was saying then. Or, as you'd frame it, trying to say.

And, of course, this delves into the deep question of "fact checking". Lemon made a sweeping generalization, which almost always should get dinged by fact checking. Conservatives get "fact checked" for far far less than what Lemon said here. Yet, Lemon is allowed to say this unabated on multiple major platforms. Black Americans are disproportionately linked to violent crime in America, esp relative to their actual population size. This is a statistical reality. And it's not a one off event, it's a long standing reality of our modern society. If someone said supporting BLM means you stand with violent crime committed by African Americans in general across the modern era in the United States, would that be fair? It would not be fair. A statement like that would be, across all major platforms, "fact checked" out of existence.

Or maybe it's time for many lefties to accept that there is a clear MSM double standard. It's OK to paint impoverished rural white Christians as some kind of monolithic cult that drives big trucks, live off welfare, and try to hunt down minorities and immigrants with their big MAGA flags. But that just makes it easier to label and hate them when the reality is that most are just Americans trying to get by like everyone else. The actions of a few don't condemn the majority as a rule. It's just easy and cheap media optics and a tribalistic narrative to do that.

There are real problems in poor white rural America that need to be addressed. Because the DNC can't find political capital within that group and uses the MSM to smear them doesn't change that reality. Though clearly it might have changed your reality on the matter. But it's your free speech.

 
When will the white working class starts voting for their economic self interest and not with economic aspiration nor fear?

Think about the latest tariffs.  The retaliatory tariffs imposed on American agriculture has put a massive hole in the revenue from farms, which hurts rural communities even for those not working directly in Ag.  Did Trump's instigation of that trade war win him fewer votes in rural areas? No. If anything he gained share there. 

I don't know what it would take to reach those people who vote not in their economic self interest, but it's been an ongoing issue for generations. 

 
This is a great topic, and I agree entirely with JML's post. I'll just add that both Democrats and Republicans have effectively divided the working class as a whole,  to the benefit of the upper class. The Republicans have been more blatant about dividing the poor, by expressly telling whites that brown people are to blame for their economic woes. The Dems have taken a subtler approach, IMO, not always expressly blaming whites, but certainly telling whites that their problems are less important than the concerns of brown people. 

Regardless of the approach, however, both major parties are guilty, and the people are also guilty of buying in to the division.  
Democrats have not been subtle at all.  Most of their rhetoric involves racial politics.  The focus is all about people of color, institutionalized racism,  cancel culture, etc.  Republicans are erroneously grouped together with the worst elements of their side while those similar elements on the left are downplayed as a few bad actors.  Mainstream Democrats are VERY guilty of openly divisive rhetoric.  Poor disadvantage white people feel more assaulted by Democrats than any morsals of empathy that may be occassionally displayed.  

The way to fix it is simple.  Treat people equally and stop dividing people into races.  Quite assuming all opposition to some progressive utopia is just racism.  The cancel culture which now includes massive censorship by both big tech and the media is the #1 problem.   People hate to be marginalized and it will lead to more and more escalation of hatred between to two sides.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
There should be some basic things that both sides should agree on - #1 may be that both parties don’t ultimately do much to help poor people, the homeless and those with mental issues.  We spend a ridiculous amount of money on wars and the military and then let the two sides convince us that everything else is a bigger issue than the fact that millions of people can’t afford housing, healthcare and sometimes food.  

 
People hate to be marginalized and it will lead to more and more escalation of hatred between to two sides.  
I can see that.  But the continued urbanization and accompanying economic growth from population density means that less voting power will be held in rural areas.  That is inevitable and has been happening for 150 years.  

I understand that the loss of power and cultural significance gives a feeling of marginalization.  Should we as a people not talk about this marginalization?  I agree that belittling any group should be avoided in media narratives. So, what more can be done about it? 

 
Ignore the fact that you have nothing - the real problem is X and that should be what you are angry about.

Feel free to replace X with just about any divisive issue you’d like.

 
The Democratic Party did leave the working class behind . Thanks GG , good info here 
Trying to pinpoint when, Obama era?  I know it’s been trending for a while.  The two parties have flipped from what I remember from the 80’s, outside of guns.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: JAA
I can see that.  But the continued urbanization and accompanying economic growth from population density means that less voting power will be held in rural areas.  That is inevitable and has been happening for 150 years.  

I understand that the loss of power and cultural significance gives a feeling of marginalization.  Should we as a people not talk about this marginalization?  I agree that belittling any group should be avoided in media narratives. So, what more can be done about it? 
We should all oppose the unilateral censorship by the social media giants.  We need to move beyond the racial politics of people of color vs. white people.  We need a message of peace, love, unity, and equal treatment of all people.  People don't inheriently have hatred in their hearts, but people are easily swayed into hatred when they are cast as the victim.  It is OK to denounce acts of evil, but stop associating those acts with entire groups.  

 
I only got to the title of the first link but I’d say that the “myth of meritocracy” is an idea that is much more pronounced on the right than the left.

 
If Trump didn't exist, the problems with poor whites and rural America would still be here today. They are not the enemy, they are fellow Americans who need help in so much as many people do, including blacks, gays, women and those with a more marketable political cause behind them. And yes, there are those who game the system and abuse it, but the collapse of any segment of our nation becomes a tax, not just financially, but also emotionally and ethically, upon which we all must suffer that burden.
Agreed.   What's your solution?

 
When will the white working class starts voting for their economic self interest and not with economic aspiration nor fear?


Rural Voters Played A Big Part In Helping Trump Defeat Clinton

Danielle Kurtzleben November 14, 201610:32 AM ET

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/14/501737150/rural-voters-played-a-big-part-in-helping-trump-defeat-clinton

****

I believe voters and especially new voters are turning out. The Obama 2012 run pushed his intersectional coalition madness, so there was a hard push to get even more voters to register than the swell of those who did in 2008 to get the first black POTUS into office. Clinton had a massive voter drive in 2016. Biden/Harris had people like Stacey Abrams amassing over 850K Georgians to come out to vote.

I believe as the MSM shifts to what is essentially political porn and now that professional politics is like a form of bizarre tragic entertainment for the masses, you'll see a wave of voters the DNC doesn't want to actually exist. There's quite a bit to criticize about Trump, but he has a pronounced down the ticket impact for the entire GOP. Look at the crowds he generates for his rallies. His car rally extended past 96 miles long. Not even Reagan at his height was this popular to his core base.

The DNC doesn't want masses of poor rural white Christians to vote any more than the RNC wanted a wave of black people to vote in battleground states. The difference seems to be that the left has a stranglehold on the MSM and can further push the anti-white rural agenda. Make no mistake, if the GOP controlled the MSM, they would be no less forgiving.

The "first past the post" system only gives you two real choices. I find it difficult to criticize many Biden voters in that it's not like they have a range of choices in the matter. Some to many picked the person closest to their viewpoint. Often they probably picked who they thought was the lesser of two evils. Conservatives are in the same boat. Not everyone is in love with Trump The Hammer who sees the entire world as a bunch of nails to be pounded into oblivion, but there isn't another alternative. Many picked Trump because they believed Biden had dementia. Then you get single issue voters, those who ride economic policy only, etc, etc. It's hard to vote for economic self interest when there is a class/wealth division problem no matter who you vote for in any election. Trump was a political outsider, but not a wealth outsider. He was knee deep in that culture and knew all the big players before he ran for office.

IMHO, rural white impoverished Christian voters are being villainized EXACTLY  for the reason that many are coming out to vote and projections lean they will keep voting. The DNC can only survive politically if they essentially buy votes with public policy across a wide range of groups. They have to appease black voters, women voters, suburban women voters, the LBGT vote, segments of the military vote, the Asian vote, etc, etc. They simply cannot afford to buy the poor rural white vote and trying to do so has clear diminishing returns. Dominating Big Blue cities allows the DNC to stranglehold the Big Tech, Big Education, Big Social Media, Hollywood, etc, etc. In effect, disenfranchising white rural voters is a basic resource management game.

But you are right. WWC voters need to mass and become a feared voting block that can't be ignored anymore. It's the reason public policy cares not for the mentally ill and homeless. They don't vote and they don't have advocacy for them as voters. The only public policy that exists is to shield property owners and business owners from being hindered where they can't pay their taxes and create jobs for those who pay taxes.

This is a game of leverage, not just class and race.

 
The way to fix it is simple.  Treat people equally and stop dividing people into races.


I believe you'll find most people will agree to this in principle.

The core question becomes what kind of logistical pathway best suits this goal?

For example, we all started here from a love of football. We can all agree when our home team is doing poorly and losing games and suffering for a long time, those teams need better coaching, better drafting, better culture, etc, etc. But these things only happen when logistical changes are put into place. For example, Pete Carroll and Scot McCloughan used more SPARQ metrics than might have been considered conventional at the time. Also UDFAs got more opportunities in camp during the early Carroll years than what might be considered the norm around the league. The Patriots and Ravens are known to game the compensation draft system when they lose free agents to their max utility.

What would you suggest as specific and practical logistical changes ( public policy, social reform, anti trust with the Big Social Media, etc, etc) that would make what you hope to happen become a natural pathway?

 
Good stuff GG.  When I read your posts I feel like you are articulating pretty much how I see things.  I think you are presenting some common sense explanations as to how we've arrived where we are.....I think what you are presenting, with this audience, is a very tough sell.....I applaud you for bringin it.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Agreed.   What's your solution?


This is a fair question.

One of the reasons I posted up several articles and videos regarding JD Vance, besides pointing out the hypocrisy of the MSM and Hollywood in essentially "cancelling" the movie critically as a pro Trump film ( I won't deny this is typical Ron Howard Oscar bait, however I've seen the film and it's clearly a family story and not a political one), is that he got a massive amount of socialization in the military. The military structure is used to taking in those with social limitations, those from broken homes, those did not receive parental guidance and love, etc, etc.

You can't force private big business to invest in places where JD Vance grew up. I'm a small business owner, like many here, and one's wish for a better world is often constrained by personal survival financially.

1) Compulsory service from ages 16-19 by everyone in the US. You either enter a junior military environment or a "Public Service Corps". Young people are going to PT, going to classes, learn life skills, learn basic money household management, discipline, team work, meritocracy, work ethic, etc, etc. Clearly the modern US family culture has fallen apart. The mass divorce culture didn't help any. The public school system cannot function as surrogate parents. Give these young people early work, early trade training, early life skill training and socialization.

2) Make youth sports compulsory. High school football saved my life. It gave me a sense of purpose, a team, a surrogate family, an understanding of hard work and sacrifice, and a make shift brotherhood. I'm not the only one here. Our society needs to get kids playing sports. Working as a team. Competing. No more obese kids staring all day into a phone. Outside in open air and in a system where there is a surrogate support system outside the home.

3) No foreign aid, besides food shipments, of any kind until the deficit is resolved. If we have extra crops and harvests, then by all means, share with the world so people don't starve. But otherwise, the purse strings are closed

Frees up lots of money to help American citizens, including rural ones.

4) Mass deportations. Since the Death Penalty is so controversial, and the prison system is so overcrowded and expensive, let's make it simple. Create a classification of crimes where you are stripped of your citizenship, all your assets and are required to leave the country and never return. If Eric Swalwell wants to bang a Chinese spy and give up state secrets like a thirsty broken down simp, then OK, lose your citizenship and get out of the country. Never return. Anyone caught again on US soil is shot by firing squad in two weeks. Want to rob a bank? Deported. Want to throw a molotov cocktail and try to burn people alive? Deported. Want to storm the Capitol? Deported. Want to be a drunk driver and kill some innocent kids in your SUV? Deported. Where will they be sent. Pick the worst country in the world that takes our food aid and tell them do what they want to them, and ship them there as the cost of doing business.

Child molesters get executed by hanging. ( Anyone got a problem with this? Didn't think so.. OK if you have a problem with this, we can build a gigantic rail gun in the desert using solar farms and fire them into the sun. That better? )  Major political crimes are now capital offenses. If Hunter Biden gets caught taking Burisma money for political gain and direct political influence? Then he goes on Death Row. Kushner uses the White House as a personal piggy bank and is convicted? Same thing. For every person deported, a lottery is held to have a prospective immigrant to get a chance to become a citizen.

Our prison system should be a bus stop only for major crimes. People stay long enough to be deported. Or to be sent to a firing squad.

This frees up lots of money to actually support schools, youth sports, libraries, parks, etc, etc.

5) To clean up personal financial political pork, if you run for office and get elected for more than one term, you are restricted for the rest of your life to only earn the top five year average of your actual government political salary. Any overage will be stripped and donated to your home state for their schools, youth sports, music programs, etc, etc. Obama can still sign that massive 60 million dollar book deal and 400K per 20 minute speaking gig. It's just he's restricted to his Presidential pension for life. That 60 million gets stripped and sent to his home state to better the lives of average citizens. You can do all the stock deals you want, just watch them go bye bye. Your direct family can have business dealings with political linkage, just at a 95 percent tax rate. If Hunter Biden wants 10 million a year from Burisma, he can give 9.5 million in taxes to support his home state. All candidate for POTUS, if elected, their adult children must be conscripted for the entire one/two terms of office by their parent. You now work for the Public Service Corps and you are sent to work for the most distressed city in the most distressed state in the entire country. Ivanka Trump should get on her knees and clean a toilet. So should Hunter Biden.

If you make professional politics a zero pathway to massive wealth, there is more incentive in place to create real public policy that helps

6) No Bill in Congress can exceed five pages in length. If you can't explain it in five pages, then you have a problem. All Bills must be single issue items. All Bills need a two week grace period for everyone to actually read the damn thing before voting. Everyone needs to vote. Anyone missing a vote is stripped of their government salary for the entire year.

This allows public policy to be simple enough for the average rural American to understand it. And reduce financial political pork.

7) If you want to sell products in the US, as a major corporation, your company must employ at least 50 percent of it's entire work staff from American citizens. Any product sold in the US, the components to build it must be made with 50 percent of parts derived from wholly US owned and operated and American employed businesses. Apple can decide it wants to make all it's IPhones in China and in those Uighur concentration camps. Fine. You just don't get to sell them in the US.

Any company is free to outsource it's jobs overseas outside of that 50 percent limit, just at an 80 percent tax rate. If you hire a guy in India to be a phone CSR, fine, whatever you are paying him in total compensation, you need to pay 80 percent on top of that in taxes.

We build our IPhone substitutes here. We make our shoes here. We make our clothes here. We give Americans jobs.

Gekko does not desire to make America great again, he simply desires to remind America it's backbone was built on 3000 percent beef eaters and legitimate shooters.

8x) Prostitution is made legal. New jobs, more tax dollars. People are more well adjusted in general and less likely to riot if their stomachs are full and their balls are empty. Consider this a gift to many of you woke manlets out there. I'm a geriatric retiree gangster and can still pull quality and drop loads but I recognize many here are not so naturally dominant.

 
Looks like they didn't play a big part helping Trump in 2020 against Biden. Not sure what exactly the lesson is here. 
Trump mobilized the Dems to show up.....the dude couldn't get out his own way for four years.  I guess it's prolly his narcissism, and lack of self awareness.......I think the lesson is too much D baggery and zero humility loses elections.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: JAA
For about ten years now, since the rise of the tea party, I’ve been hearing about how the Democrats have ignored the needs and desires of the white working class. It’s a boring topic by now, and it’s especially silly given the fact that the white working class continues to lead the minority working class (blacks, Hispanics, etc.) in just about every category (economic salary, education, standard of living, insurance access, health) just as they always have. 
I wouldn’t have brought up the white working class as discussing such a topic inevitably leads to some racial stereotyping. But since the OP brought it up- the main reasons that SOME of the white working class feels alienated are: 

1. Technology is killing traditional manufacturing, especially in the rust belt. 
2. Non white population is growing and soon will be a majority. This makes SOME white people scared. 
 

There is nothing the Democrats or the Republicans can do about these issues. The Republicans, led by Trump, give fake, harmful answers: they can solve the job issue by attacking trade, they can solve the race issue by attacking immigration. The Democrats are more honest: they can’t solve either. If whites want to fool themselves by choosing people like Trump over the truth, that’s their choice. But in the end they’ll suffer worse if they do. 

 
This is a fair question.

One of the reasons I posted up several articles and videos regarding JD Vance, besides pointing out the hypocrisy of the MSM and Hollywood in essentially "cancelling" the movie critically as a pro Trump film ( I won't deny this is typical Ron Howard Oscar bait, however I've seen the film and it's clearly a family story and not a political one), is that he got a massive amount of socialization in the military. The military structure is used to taking in those with social limitations, those from broken homes, those did not receive parental guidance and love, etc, etc.

You can't force private big business to invest in places where JD Vance grew up. I'm a small business owner, like many here, and one's wish for a better world is often constrained by personal survival financially.

1) Compulsory service from ages 16-19 by everyone in the US. You either enter a junior military environment or a "Public Service Corps". Young people are going to PT, going to classes, learn life skills, learn basic money household management, discipline, team work, meritocracy, work ethic, etc, etc. Clearly the modern US family culture has fallen apart. The mass divorce culture didn't help any. The public school system cannot function as surrogate parents. Give these young people early work, early trade training, early life skill training and socialization.

2) Make youth sports compulsory. High school football saved my life. It gave me a sense of purpose, a team, a surrogate family, an understanding of hard work and sacrifice, and a make shift brotherhood. I'm not the only one here. Our society needs to get kids playing sports. Working as a team. Competing. No more obese kids staring all day into a phone. Outside in open air and in a system where there is a surrogate support system outside the home.

3) No foreign aid, besides food shipments, of any kind until the deficit is resolved. If we have extra crops and harvests, then by all means, share with the world so people don't starve. But otherwise, the purse strings are closed

Frees up lots of money to help American citizens, including rural ones.

4) Mass deportations. Since the Death Penalty is so controversial, and the prison system is so overcrowded and expensive, let's make it simple. Create a classification of crimes where you are stripped of your citizenship, all your assets and are required to leave the country and never return. If Eric Swalwell wants to bang a Chinese spy and give up state secrets like a thirsty broken down simp, then OK, lose your citizenship and get out of the country. Never return. Anyone caught again on US soil is shot by firing squad in two weeks. Want to rob a bank? Deported. Want to throw a molotov cocktail and try to burn people alive? Deported. Want to storm the Capitol? Deported. Want to be a drunk driver and kill some innocent kids in your SUV? Deported. Where will they be sent. Pick the worst country in the world that takes our food aid and tell them do what they want to them, and ship them there as the cost of doing business.

Child molesters get executed by hanging. ( Anyone got a problem with this? Didn't think so.. OK if you have a problem with this, we can build a gigantic rail gun in the desert using solar farms and fire them into the sun. That better? )  Major political crimes are now capital offenses. If Hunter Biden gets caught taking Burisma money for political gain and direct political influence? Then he goes on Death Row. Kushner uses the White House as a personal piggy bank and is convicted? Same thing. For every person deported, a lottery is held to have a prospective immigrant to get a chance to become a citizen.

Our prison system should be a bus stop only for major crimes. People stay long enough to be deported. Or to be sent to a firing squad.

This frees up lots of money to actually support schools, youth sports, libraries, parks, etc, etc.

5) To clean up personal financial political pork, if you run for office and get elected for more than one term, you are restricted for the rest of your life to only earn the top five year average of your actual government political salary. Any overage will be stripped and donated to your home state for their schools, youth sports, music programs, etc, etc. Obama can still sign that massive 60 million dollar book deal and 400K per 20 minute speaking gig. It's just he's restricted to his Presidential pension for life. That 60 million gets stripped and sent to his home state to better the lives of average citizens. You can do all the stock deals you want, just watch them go bye bye. Your direct family can have business dealings with political linkage, just at a 95 percent tax rate. If Hunter Biden wants 10 million a year from Burisma, he can give 9.5 million in taxes to support his home state. All candidate for POTUS, if elected, their adult children must be conscripted for the entire one/two terms of office by their parent. You now work for the Public Service Corps and you are sent to work for the most distressed city in the most distressed state in the entire country. Ivanka Trump should get on her knees and clean a toilet. So should Hunter Biden.

If you make professional politics a zero pathway to massive wealth, there is more incentive in place to create real public policy that helps

6) No Bill in Congress can exceed five pages in length. If you can't explain it in five pages, then you have a problem. All Bills must be single issue items. All Bills need a two week grace period for everyone to actually read the damn thing before voting. Everyone needs to vote. Anyone missing a vote is stripped of their government salary for the entire year.

This allows public policy to be simple enough for the average rural American to understand it. And reduce financial political pork.

7) If you want to sell products in the US, as a major corporation, your company must employ at least 50 percent of it's entire work staff from American citizens. Any product sold in the US, the components to build it must be made with 50 percent of parts derived from wholly US owned and operated and American employed businesses. Apple can decide it wants to make all it's IPhones in China and in those Uighur concentration camps. Fine. You just don't get to sell them in the US.

Any company is free to outsource it's jobs overseas outside of that 50 percent limit, just at an 80 percent tax rate. If you hire a guy in India to be a phone CSR, fine, whatever you are paying him in total compensation, you need to pay 80 percent on top of that in taxes.

We build our IPhone substitutes here. We make our shoes here. We make our clothes here. We give Americans jobs.

Gekko does not desire to make America great again, he simply desires to remind America it's backbone was built on 3000 percent beef eaters and legitimate shooters.

8x) Prostitution is made legal. New jobs, more tax dollars. People are more well adjusted in general and less likely to riot if their stomachs are full and their balls are empty. Consider this a gift to many of you woke manlets out there. I'm a geriatric retiree gangster and can still pull quality and drop loads but I recognize many here are not so naturally dominant.
From just about every possible standpoint I can think of, this is probably the worst post I have ever read in this forum. 

 
From just about every possible standpoint I can think of, this is probably the worst post I have ever read in this forum. 
Can you give specifics on the 3-5 worst things in the post?  Just flat out saying it sucks doesn’t really leave room for discussion or engagement.

 
For about ten years now, since the rise of the tea party, I’ve been hearing about how the Democrats have ignored the needs and desires of the white working class. It’s a boring topic by now, and it’s especially silly given the fact that the white working class continues to lead the minority working class (blacks, Hispanics, etc.) in just about every category (economic salary, education, standard of living, insurance access, health) just as they always have. 
I wouldn’t have brought up the white working class as discussing such a topic inevitably leads to some racial stereotyping. But since the OP brought it up- the main reasons that SOME of the white working class feels alienated are: 

1. Technology is killing traditional manufacturing, especially in the rust belt. 
2. Non white population is growing and soon will be a majority. This makes SOME white people scared. 
 

There is nothing the Democrats or the Republicans can do about these issues. The Republicans, led by Trump, give fake, harmful answers: they can solve the job issue by attacking trade, they can solve the race issue by attacking immigration. The Democrats are more honest: they can’t solve either. If whites want to fool themselves by choosing people like Trump over the truth, that’s their choice. But in the end they’ll suffer worse if they do. 
About 1 - shipping our manufacturing overseas hurts just as much.  

 
Can you give specifics on the 3-5 worst things in the post?  Just flat out saying it sucks doesn’t really leave room for discussion or engagement.
Yeah I thought about doing just that but it’s almost too embarrassing to do so. I suggest you read two paragraphs: the one about mass deportations, and the last paragraph about how manly he is. That should about do it. 

 
Yeah I thought about doing just that but it’s almost too embarrassing to do so. I suggest you read two paragraphs: the one about mass deportations, and the last paragraph about how manly he is. That should about do it. 
I read the whole thing and am typing a long response now.

 
1) Well, I agree on compulsory service for youth, though obviously the devil is in the details. I doubt whether conservatives and progressives would ever agree on what types of service would be permitted. For example, military vs. peace corps vs. Church missions vs just going to university. To me compulsory service would be more effective at an older age, so I'd suggest 2 years between the ages of 16-25.

2) I also agree on school sports, but would add other extracurriculars. Sports isn't for everyone, and I don't think there are good reasons to limit activities to sports. Why not band, theater, chess, charity work? Anything that helps kids learn some of hard work, sacrifice, teamwork, dealing with adversity, etc. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
For about ten years now, since the rise of the tea party, I’ve been hearing about how the Democrats have ignored the needs and desires of the white working class. It’s a boring topic by now, and it’s especially silly given the fact that the white working class continues to lead the minority working class (blacks, Hispanics, etc.) in just about every category (economic salary, education, standard of living, insurance access, health) just as they always have. 
I wouldn’t have brought up the white working class as discussing such a topic inevitably leads to some racial stereotyping. But since the OP brought it up- the main reasons that SOME of the white working class feels alienated are: 

1. Technology is killing traditional manufacturing, especially in the rust belt. 
2. Non white population is growing and soon will be a majority. This makes SOME white people scared. 
 

There is nothing the Democrats or the Republicans can do about these issues. The Republicans, led by Trump, give fake, harmful answers: they can solve the job issue by attacking trade, they can solve the race issue by attacking immigration. The Democrats are more honest: they can’t solve either. If whites want to fool themselves by choosing people like Trump over the truth, that’s their choice. But in the end they’ll suffer worse if they do. 
It is not about being scared, it is about being marginalized.  The feeling right now is if you speak up you will be deleted.  Big tech has created this unilateral censorship where they have complete control over content and there is zero recourse.  And now these big tech monopolies are using their powers to openly squash competition and the Democrat party is cheering it on wanting more.  It is a Fascist dream to have that kind of control over speech.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
From just about every possible standpoint I can think of, this is probably the worst post I have ever read in this forum. 
Wow, really?  I found it be honest, and full of resolutions to problems.  You don't have to agree with it, but worst post?  C'mon man

 
3) If we end foreign aid we instantly lose influence around the world. And, from my understanding, foreign aid accounts for a little more than 1% of our annual spending. While I don't believe "it's only 1%" is a valid reason not to consider trimming an expense, I'd imagine most foreign policy experts would say 1% is cheap for the influence and security it buys. Certainly it's far cheaper, in dollars and blood, than direct military intervention. Overall, I think the suggestion to end all foreign aid is naive, a simple, populistic solution to some very complex problems. 

 
4) I'm far too over qualified and opinionated on criminal justice to engage with your suggestions. I'll simply point out that stripping Americans of citizenship for criminal offenses is unconstitutional, and not something that states would ever agree with. Further, a system that ignores the possibility of rehabilitation and redemption is un-American and flies in the face of our value. This is particularly true for the white working class demographic you are defending here. Lastly, your draconian suggestions are inconsistent with what we know about criminal deterrence, human nature, and brain science. Your suggestions would make our society immeasurably worse. 

 
From just about every possible standpoint I can think of, this is probably the worst post I have ever read in this forum. 


I would be absolutely proud to have created the worst post ever written in these forums.

I was asked a fair question. I didn't care the personal political leanings of the person asking them, I believed the question to be in good faith. I answered in good faith. My guess is the person who asked the question and I want many of the same things - opportunity and safety for our children, strong productive communities, good schools, meaningful work for those willing to make the sacrifice to get ahead, freedom of expression without censor or fear, a chance to define our lives and grab our destinies with our own two hands.

It matters less to me that I have the best ideas or all the answers in so much as I set the right example for the other conservatives here. I recognize most people, actually nearly all to be honest, are just not built like me. I can watch 35-40 of you woke cancel culture lefties come for me and wonder why there aren't more of you. Because even if you had triple those numbers, and even if I stand alone, my natural disposition is that I'd still have you outnumbered.

If you troll me and personally attack me, and you have, but that draws your attention here and that gives coverage for a lurker, a young conservative, to feel safe enough to find their voice to say something in the open that they thought was meaningful, then that's a win. Not for me, but for the ideal of diversity of thought and diversity of opinion. Proof of life that those who operate in good faith will always prevail in this community.

I don't need to have all the answers. I just need to consistently do my part to attempt to raise the level of discussion, be an example and bring value wherever I go on this site. Doing that, in good faith, will inevitably crush you. Not trolling you, not reporting your posts, not ad hominem, not any of the things you casually hurl at me and others.

I'm not standing up for conservatives. I'm not standing up for Republicans. I'm not standing up for Donald Trump nor any other politician. I'm not standing up for some worthless external validation that you seem to so desperately prize yourself in nearly every single thing you do on these forums.

I'm standing up for those who are silent but want to find their voice.

If the price of that is my good faith, your enduring rancor and the worst things anyone here has ever read, I'll gladly pay it.

You are actually wrong, this here, right now, is most definitely the worst post ever written here on FBG. And yet I can still be proud of what it means rather than what it says.

Ask yourself, can you say the same?

 
4) I'm far too over qualified and opinionated on criminal justice to engage with your suggestions. I'll simply point out that stripping Americans of citizenship for criminal offenses is unconstitutional, and not something that states would ever agree with. Further, a system that ignores the possibility of rehabilitation and redemption is un-American and flies in the face of our value. This is particularly true for the white working class demographic you are defending here. Lastly, your draconian suggestions are inconsistent with what we know about criminal deterrence, human nature, and brain science. Your suggestions would make our society immeasurably worse. 
You are a good man for engaging. Im going in for another shot. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top