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Executive Orders (1 Viewer)

AAABatteries

AAABatteries

Footballguy
I want to try and start some threads where we attempt to take partisanship out of the discussion (insert laughter here).

Executive Orders are something that is supported by Article 2 but it's unclear exactly the power that Presidents have to execute these (or at least it's unclear to me).  I will say that I don't like the image of the incoming President signing a big stack of EOs that in some cases are just undoing the EOs of their predecessor.  To be fair, the number of EOs has remained relatively flat since FDR and Truman. 

Is EO discusison much to do about nothing or do we need some type of additional check and balance - I think today the check is the EO can be challenged in court.  Is that sufficient?

*Somewhat obvious that this comes to mind because of the changing of leadership we are currently going through.  Again, I'd love to discuss the mechanism and whether it's solid as is or could use some tweaking.

 
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It's a tough topic. I do think being challenged in court is a good thing, but that's only the legality of the EO and not the good or harm it could bring to the US. If you make it something congress can overturn, then you are reducing the power of the executive branch. Maybe a 2/3 majority in both Senate and House would make sense, to avoid the absolute worst of the potential EOs.

The largest obstacle imo is that people love the EO power when their person is in power and hate it when it isn't.

As for undoing what a former president did, I'm not sure there is a good fix. Maybe it means that for important things, make it legislation instead of an EO.

 
I don't particularly think it makes sense to EO stuff that could be worked out in the Senate/Congress; although I get the idea of using it by an incoming POTUS to push his(Parties) agenda through quickly if it is an idea that Congress already endorses  or something that he specifically ran on.  I would have thought the power would either used on more trivial/ceremonial matters or in cases of extreme emergency.

 
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The biggest check is that they can generally easily be undone by the next administration. 

It is hard to comment on them overall.  There are goid ones and there are bad ones.

 
Green and Gold said:
It's a tough topic. I do think being challenged in court is a good thing, but that's only the legality of the EO and not the good or harm it could bring to the US. If you make it something congress can overturn, then you are reducing the power of the executive branch. Maybe a 2/3 majority in both Senate and House would make sense, to avoid the absolute worst of the potential EOs.

The largest obstacle imo is that people love the EO power when their person is in power and hate it when it isn't.

As for undoing what a former president did, I'm not sure there is a good fix. Maybe it means that for important things, make it legislation instead of an EO.
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Maybe in addition to what we currently have maybe EOs could be given a shelf-life to get it moved in to legislation that must get passed.  And the same President can't use another EO to continue it but the next one could.  I'm just spitballing.

Your point about fixing bad ones is a good point - that may be the only way to remove bad ones.  I still don't like the look but it's a good explanation.

 
jrt103 said:
Here is a list of them, organized per Pres.  

Executive Orders

Not sure  how long it takes them to show up, nothing from Biden is listed yet
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From your link-

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders/joe-biden/2021

I think you'll mostly be bored by these.  

 
Last few administrations have overly relied on EO’s.  Gridlock in Congress is why they would say it’s more necessary today.
 

Sadly, some members of Congress now see themselves more as celebrities and social media stars than legislators compared to 20 years ago.  They are dug in and have to protect their brands and reputations.  I don’t see that changing so I only see EO’s being the new normal.  

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
From your link-

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders/joe-biden/2021

I think you'll mostly be bored by these.  
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Exactly...most are boring.  The problem is people confuse a criticism of executive orders as criticizing the amount or volume of them (same as pardons)...when going back several Presidents, the volume isn't the issue...its the content.  Its when POTUS's try legislating from the Resolute Desk.  Much of these things are and should be more ceremonial, things that don't need to go through congress...and even those that are not ceremonial are still things that are needed, but would be a gigantic waste of time to go through congress.  Interesting also that people who complain about them...would likely complain that congress should be doing other things with their time if they were to take up some of the issues.

WHere I have issues with EOs...when spending is involved...as that is a role congress is supposed to play.  And I mean spending "new money", not actions which then require congress to act, not initiatives that later require budgeting...but just flat out spending

 
knowledge dropper said:
Last few administrations have overly relied on EO’s.  Gridlock in Congress is why they would say it’s more necessary today.
 

Sadly, some members of Congress now see themselves more as celebrities and social media stars than legislators compared to 20 years ago.  They are dug in and have to protect their brands and reputations.  I don’t see that changing so I only see EO’s being the new normal.  
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Then lets vote out the Pelosi, McConnel, Jim Jordan types that see themselves as more celebrities...rather than pumping them up as such.

 
sho nuff said:
Then lets vote out the Pelosi, McConnel, Jim Jordan types that see themselves as more celebrities...rather than pumping them up as such.
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Agreed, but the list is much longer and gets larger each cycle.  Sadly, politics has become the highest rated reality TV show of all time.  Capital Hill is full of Snookis, Situations, and Kardashians. Many people love it and live for it.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Agreed, but the list is much longer and gets larger each cycle.  Sadly, politics has become the highest rated reality TV show of all time.  Capital Hill is full of Snookis, Situations, and Kardashians. Many people love it and live for it.  
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Oh sure...I could have listed a bunch of names.

But this seems to be an odd stance after 4 years of a reality show President being supported so much.

 
sho nuff said:
Oh sure...I could have listed a bunch of names.

But this seems to be an odd stance after 4 years of a reality show President being supported so much.
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A legendary American businessman that was offered a television show due to his charisma, success, and popularity.  Big difference.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Last few administrations have overly relied on EO’s.  Gridlock in Congress is why they would say it’s more necessary today.
 
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The numbers don't really show this though. Reagan, Carter, Nixon, LBJ all issued more than the last few presidents. And if we go back before them, it is out of control. Truman over 900. FDR almost 4000. Coolidge over 1000. Wilson almost 2000

 
dawgtrails said:
The numbers don't really show this though. Reagan, Carter, Nixon, LBJ all issued more than the last few presidents. And if we go back before them, it is out of control. Truman over 900. FDR almost 4000. Coolidge over 1000. Wilson almost 2000
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Some of those listed were in office during WWI, Great Depression, and WWII.  Maybe that was part of the volume?  

 
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Judge Drew Tipton of the Southern District of Texas, appointed by president Donald Trump, blocked the implementation of Biden’s Executive Order that would have halted deportations for 100 days. 

Texas General Attorney Ken Paxton said,

Texas is the FIRST state in the nation to bring a lawsuit against the Biden Admin. AND WE WON. Within 6 days of Biden's inauguration, Texas has HALTED his illegal deportation freeze. *This* was a seditious left-wing insurrection. And my team and I stopped it.
Click to expand...


  :thumbup:

 
sho nuff said:
Exactly...most are boring.  The problem is people confuse a criticism of executive orders as criticizing the amount or volume of them (same as pardons)...when going back several Presidents, the volume isn't the issue...its the content.  Its when POTUS's try legislating from the Resolute Desk.  Much of these things are and should be more ceremonial, things that don't need to go through congress...and even those that are not ceremonial are still things that are needed, but would be a gigantic waste of time to go through congress.  Interesting also that people who complain about them...would likely complain that congress should be doing other things with their time if they were to take up some of the issues.

WHere I have issues with EOs...when spending is involved...as that is a role congress is supposed to play.  And I mean spending "new money", not actions which then require congress to act, not initiatives that later require budgeting...but just flat out spending
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I'm not a huge fan of them for the most part either, but - to be fair to the system itself and not any one party, person or President - the role of the Executive branch is enforce the laws created by the legislature.  Many EO's end up being nothing more (in practice) than the CEO giving direction to his/her subordinates.  

For example, I just randomly searched EO's from President Clinton.  EO 13197 is a dictate to governmental agencies to collect and use certain data within the confines of the merit systems in place for employment.  Dry, dull topic no one cares about.  But he had that power from a myriad of different sources, not the least of which is the fundamental result of legislative action.  Most laws come with their enforcement mechanisms and regulations to actually do them.  But they are either limited in scope and left to the Executive to determine, or just left to the executive to determine completely.

We should always be wary of EO's that trip over the line between the separation of powers of the branches of government, sure.  The overwhelming majority of them don't though.  And if they do, the proper mechanism already exists to deal with them - Congress can modify the law.  However, we know from hundreds of years of practice now, they likely won't, not because they lack the ability to do it - they lack the ability to get it done and consider all the ramifications of each regulation down to the nuts and bolts execution of them.

Basically - what we fail to remember sometimes is that most of the work of government is downright boring and uneventful.  If Congress passes a law that says only chickens grown in the US can be sold as food to the population and the executive branch is granted the authority to promulgate the regulations necessary to do so - there are, by my estimation, about a trillion different rules and regs that have to be dealt with in order to make that happen.  Some will be written by the agency heads.  Some will be by EO.  Most will be practice results and not written but be, in the end, the necessary work of the bureaucracy that exists to make it all happen.

 
tonydead said:
Judge Drew Tipton of the Southern District of Texas, appointed by president Donald Trump, blocked the implementation of Biden’s Executive Order that would have halted deportations for 100 days. 

Texas General Attorney Ken Paxton said,

  :thumbup:
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There should be an executive order to deport Ken Paxton!

 
Seems like a guy who you want to run the state's legal operations

Paxton has been under indictment since 2015 on securities fraud charges relating to activities prior to taking office; he has pleaded not guilty. Additionally, in October 2020, several high-level assistants in Paxton's office accused him of "bribery, abuse of office and other crimes"

 
Direct Headline: FLASHBACK: Biden speaks out against excessive executive orders—he's since signed 33

Noah David January 26, 2021 7:59 AM

https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback-biden-speaks-out-against-excessive-executive-orders-hes-since-signed-33

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1354035368211984390

"....(Joe Biden in October 2020)....'...we are a democracy … if you can’t get the votes (you need to pass legislation on it's own) … you (should not legislate) by executive order ....unless you’re a dictator.... We’re a democracy (after all)...... We need consensus (on laws that impact the entire nation)'......"

*****

So, in Biden's own words, would he call himself a dictator then? Was there consensus before he made so many sweeping changes that deeply impact public policy and a vast number of American citizens?

Trump does it? He's a tyrant.

 Biden does it? He's the greatest thing since bottled beer, internet porn and The Red Pill.

 
GordonGekko said:
Direct Headline: FLASHBACK: Biden speaks out against excessive executive orders—he's since signed 33

Noah David January 26, 2021 7:59 AM

https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback-biden-speaks-out-against-excessive-executive-orders-hes-since-signed-33

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1354035368211984390

"....(Joe Biden in October 2020)....'...we are a democracy … if you can’t get the votes (you need to pass legislation on it's own) … you (should not legislate) by executive order ....unless you’re a dictator.... We’re a democracy (after all)...... We need consensus (on laws that impact the entire nation)'......"

*****

So, in Biden's own words, would he call himself a dictator then? Was there consensus before he made so many sweeping changes that deeply impact public policy and a vast number of American citizens?

Trump does it? He's a tyrant.

 Biden does it? He's the greatest thing since bottled beer, internet porn and The Red Pill.
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This is valid criticism of both Biden and politicking in general.  Each and every presidential candidate and eventual president elect has most certainly voiced opposition to “legislating by EO”, and I’m equally certain most congressional members have voiced the same opposition to presidents belonging to differing political parties.

An EO, however, as far as I know cannot be confused with legislating or legislative statutes.  The president’s job is to execute the laws of the land and where those may be vague they suddenly have leeway to interpret and direct how they see fit.  One of the largest problems this country has is an unrealistic belief by the electorate and professed ability by those running for the highest office of proclaiming “I will (blank)!”  EOs provide the ability to claim victories against campaign promises, but rarely are they ever wildly impactful and often (again, assuming) challenged in court.

 
GordonGekko said:
Direct Headline: FLASHBACK: Biden speaks out against excessive executive orders—he's since signed 33

Noah David January 26, 2021 7:59 AM

https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback-biden-speaks-out-against-excessive-executive-orders-hes-since-signed-33

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1354035368211984390

"....(Joe Biden in October 2020)....'...we are a democracy … if you can’t get the votes (you need to pass legislation on it's own) … you (should not legislate) by executive order ....unless you’re a dictator.... We’re a democracy (after all)...... We need consensus (on laws that impact the entire nation)'......"

*****

So, in Biden's own words, would he call himself a dictator then? Was there consensus before he made so many sweeping changes that deeply impact public policy and a vast number of American citizens?

Trump does it? He's a tyrant.

 Biden does it? He's the greatest thing since bottled beer, internet porn and The Red Pill.
Click to expand...
Keep pumping out those Right Wing Fake News lies. See the ellipses in the quote? They're there specifically to avoid putting in relevant and important parts of the statement. Biden was asked if his tax changes would take affect immediately. His response was that he had to get the votes to do that because you can't change the tax laws by Executive Order unless you're a dictator. Totally true statement and totally unrelated to the use of Executive Orders to do things that don't require votes.

Sort of like reminding everyone that JFK said, "Ask not...what you can do for your country."

 
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tonydead said:
Judge Drew Tipton of the Southern District of Texas, appointed by president Donald Trump, blocked the implementation of Biden’s Executive Order that would have halted deportations for 100 days. 

Texas General Attorney Ken Paxton said,

  :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Can someone please explain to the Attorney General of Texas that a 14 day TRO does not mean you won the case? Thanks.

 
apalmer said:
Can someone please explain to the Attorney General of Texas that a 14 day TRO does not mean you won the case? Thanks.
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This guy is a real something. He brought the terrible election lawsuit, and it turns out he didn't even write it. He was just the only one dumb enough to sign on to it.

https://www.chron.com/politics/article/ken-paxton-trump-supreme-court-election-15913846.php

a team of lawyers close to Trump's campaign drafted the lawsuit Paxton brought to the Supreme Court after Paxton was the only attorney general willing to do so.

 
apalmer said:
... See the ellipses in the quote? They're there specifically to avoid putting in relevant and important parts of the statement. ....
Click to expand...


The ellipses exist because I have an individual FBG user policy, possibly the only one of it's kind, that says I cannot quote anyone period. Ever again. Period.

You'll have to live with paraphrasing, ironically, based on localized executive order.

Speaking back on the topic,

Direct Headline: Biden has signed 42 executive actions since taking office. Here's what each does

By Paul LeBlanc, CNN Updated 6:07 PM ET, Fri January 29, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/politics/biden-executive-orders-climate-health-care-coronavirus-immigration/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/02/politics/biden-immigration-executive-orders/index.html

*****

It appears three will be signed today but are rolled up in the total in the first link.  Totally relevant, I wouldn't have hard linked the Twitter posting if I felt otherwise.

Biden says there needs to be "consensus".  Does it look like there is going to be a consensus? Conservatives have been labeled, cancelled, demonetized and deplatformed. Biden is bypassing the legislature and just signing EOs left and right. Deep questions about his cognitive health have plagued him ( but suppressed by the left leaning MSM) during the election run and one has to wonder if he has completely and total agency in what he's signing or not.

Consider the video below ( Note that the video's host and author is stating YouTube is officially deleting upvotes and actually removed it's Close Captioning feature from the video. Not partisan at all apparently....)

VIDEO: Joe Biden says he doesn't even know what he is signing and Nancy Pelosi says sign it anyway •Jan 22, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fP5c82dnCQ

 
GordonGekko said:
The ellipses exist because I have an individual FBG user policy, possibly the only one of it's kind, that says I cannot quote anyone period. Ever again. Period.

You'll have to live with paraphrasing, ironically, based on localized executive order.
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Apparently that ban doesn't prevent partial quotes that misrepresent the actual words said, so why would they prevent partial quotes that actually properly paraphrase?

 
Biden was right when he said " "things you can't do by executive order unless you're a dictator." "

The Democrats behind Biden can't get done what they want to ram through unless Joe Executive Orders - and so he is. 

ya'll call that whatever you want but Joe made it pretty clear I think

 
Stealthycat said:
Biden was right when he said " "things you can't do by executive order unless you're a dictator." "

The Democrats behind Biden can't get done what they want to ram through unless Joe Executive Orders - and so he is. 

ya'll call that whatever you want but Joe made it pretty clear I think
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EOs ending EOs of the guy you just beat in an election seems to be to be "to the victor's go the spoils" kind of thing.

 
Mile High said:
EOs ending EOs of the guy you just beat in an election seems to be to be "to the victor's go the spoils" kind of thing.
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that's not what Biden said, its not what Trump did or Obama or GW or the other presidents - Biden is record setting at EO's

why ?

 
I’ve often thought of these EOs as something akin to “decrees,” in that they’re used in the same manner as royalty would to an extent. I’m not a fan of them, but evidently they aren’t going away.

 
Kal El said:
I’ve often thought of these EOs as something akin to “decrees,” in that they’re used in the same manner as royalty would to an extent. I’m not a fan of them, but evidently they aren’t going away.
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They have been used since George Washington, so no, they aren't going away

 
Mile High said:
Biden said he wouldn't use EOs to overturn Trumps EOs?
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He also said that dictators use EOs and yet he's now surpassed Trump.  Guess he lied there too.  Unless he considers himself a dictator which should then concern all of you who voted for him since you were so against dictators the previous 4 years.

 
BladeRunner said:
Cnn?  Oy vey. 

I just can't get behind someone fact-checking me and using CNN as a source.  So you must be saying that I'm correct.
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You can read the article and make your own conclusion, or you can ignore it and stay in your echo chamber.

 
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thriftyrocker said:
You can read the article and make your own conclusion, or you can ignore it and stay in your echo chamber.
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Hah!  Look at this guy talking about echo chambers. Do you realize where you're at?

I have made my own conclusion and the conclusion is CNN is an untrustworthy source at best and liars at worst.

 
BladeRunner said:
He also said that dictators use EOs and yet he's now surpassed Trump.  Guess he lied there too.  Unless he considers himself a dictator which should then concern all of you who voted for him since you were so against dictators the previous 4 years.
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That is not what he said. In reference to raising taxes, he said that you can't do that by EO unless you're a dictator.

 
DaVinci said:
That is not what he said. In reference to raising taxes, he said that you can't do that by EO unless you're a dictator.
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This would be known simply by clicking a provided link, ignoring CNN commentary, and just reading the quotes. But it's more comfortable not to know the truth. Feelings > Facts.

 
MAC_32 said:
This would be known simply by clicking a provided link, ignoring CNN commentary, and just reading the quotes. But it's more comfortable not to know the truth. Feelings > Facts.
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Hey, if you get to choose between what was actually said and what Sean Hannity says was said, why would you choose reality?

 
amazing to watch/read how this all goes ...

anti-Trump people hated Trump using EO's and refused to acknowledge Foxnews as a viable news source ..... and I'm now seeing total acceptance of Executive Orders by dictator Joe (by Joe's own admissions that using EO's to pass through what he wants that he can't get passed otherwise) and using CNN fact checking ?

amazing 

and then, lets say in 2024 a GOP wins, same people would HATE the new GOP President using 35-50 EO's in the first few days

me personally? I think EO's need to be done away with - a President isn't a law maker, that's for the House and Senate IMO

 
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