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2 hours ago, BroadwayG said:

Has anyone asked their high school aged children/relatives what their thoughts are?

I just asked my kid about it about an hour ago.  He's trans but he hasn't played organized sports since 8th grade so this doesn't really impact him directly.  Anyway, he had some interesting things to say but a lot of it was similar to the things I've said so I won't bother repeating it. 

He did mention one story that seems worth repeating here about this guy:  Mack Beggs.  He was assigned female at birth but transitioned.  His sport was wrestling.  He wanted to wrestle against other boys but Texas state rules prohibited it.  So he won the Texas high school girls wrestling championship twice and was undefeated for like two years.  And was booed by opposing teams.  That doesn't sound so great.

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Biological males playing female sports is not a good idea.  

I do appreciate that this thread is nearly 100% cordial and respectful. If this thread popped up 10 years ago, I can't imagine the level of discourse would be anywhere near this. It is such a com

I've read just about all of your posts here.... I'll be honest.  I don't know what to think about this topic specifically anymore.  Not because I am incapable of forming an opinion (we all know that i

59 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I just asked my kid about it about an hour ago.  He's trans but he hasn't played organized sports since 8th grade so this doesn't really impact him directly.  Anyway, he had some interesting things to say but a lot of it was similar to the things I've said so I won't bother repeating it. 

He did mention one story that seems worth repeating here about this guy:  Mack Beggs.  He was assigned female at birth but transitioned.  His sport was wrestling.  He wanted to wrestle against other boys but Texas state rules prohibited it.  So he won the Texas high school girls wrestling championship twice and was undefeated for like two years.  And was booed by opposing teams.  That doesn't sound so great.

 

I feel bad for both. I feel awful for the females he (was forced) to wrestle and the girl Chelsea Sanchez whom Beggs defeated twice in subsequent state finals. 

Seems everyone except the Texas athletics board handled things with well. I think the competing coach should be applauded for his stance below:

Coaches share thoughts on transitioning Mack Beggs

Quote

 

If Conroe coach Jeremy Horan had one of his female wrestlers competing in the same weight class with Beggs, he would have left the decision up to the wrestler about whether or not to compete.

"I'm going to support my kids any way I can," Horan said Saturday. "Mack is just like any other wrestler. He works extremely hard and is here to compete. Mack is following UIL rules as they are in place. I think he's a courageous kid."

Horan didn't feel as if Beggs was doing anything wrong in that regard if he is eligible to compete.

"Mack is respecting the rules," Horan said. "He's just like any other kid that wants a chance to compete. That's all you can say."

 

 

 

Edited by STEADYMOBBIN 22
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6 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't have the number in front of me and I'm too lazy to look it up, but apparently there are hundreds of high school boys who break the women's world record in various track events every single year.

I topped out at a 4:34 mile in the year 2000. There was recruiting interest at the D3 level, but passive is the word I'd use to describe it. I would have been the high school female U.S. record holder until 2014.

Edited by MAC_32
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3 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Some of the people that are dominating competitions in women’s sports don’t look (or compete) like ladies 

🤷🏻‍♂️

As some of us old enough to remember the East German women's olympic teams can attest to.

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14 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

 Mack Beggs.  He was assigned female at birth but transitioned.  His sport was wrestling.  He wanted to wrestle against other boys but Texas state rules prohibited it.  So he won the Texas high school girls wrestling championship twice and was undefeated for like two years.  And was booed by opposing teams.  That doesn't sound so great.

I just read up on Mack Beggs

Mack started the hormone therapy to change the body in his sophomore year - and went on to win junior and senior years. 

I cannot find the records of 2016 and 2015, the freshman and sophomore records

I'm assuming Mack is female born at birth and the argument is all the drugs/hormones etc give to that female body elevated Mack to a level that wouldn't have been attained otherwise. 

I don't know why Mack was blocked from wrestling against boys - which comes back to my argument there should be 1 sport of wrestling, and everyone competes and the best wrestlers are on the team and everyone else isn't because they're not good enough. That solves everything - and treats everyone fair and equal

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14 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I just asked my kid about it about an hour ago.  He's trans but he hasn't played organized sports since 8th grade so this doesn't really impact him directly.  Anyway, he had some interesting things to say but a lot of it was similar to the things I've said so I won't bother repeating it. 

He did mention one story that seems worth repeating here about this guy:  Mack Beggs.  He was assigned female at birth but transitioned.  His sport was wrestling.  He wanted to wrestle against other boys but Texas state rules prohibited it.  So he won the Texas high school girls wrestling championship twice and was undefeated for like two years.  And was booed by opposing teams.  That doesn't sound so great.

Maybe this is hypocritical, and maybe not, but I don't see why we would want to limit trans males from competing with males since they don't have any sort of natural competitive advantage.  I think the rules should literally be to limit biological males from competing in female sports and that is it.  We let females play football all of the time around the country, but there are no boys on the girls basketball/soccer/softball/volleyball teams.  It seems to be a simple, logical solution.

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15 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I just asked my kid about it about an hour ago.  He's trans but he hasn't played organized sports since 8th grade so this doesn't really impact him directly.  Anyway, he had some interesting things to say but a lot of it was similar to the things I've said so I won't bother repeating it. 

He did mention one story that seems worth repeating here about this guy:  Mack Beggs.  He was assigned female at birth but transitioned.  His sport was wrestling.  He wanted to wrestle against other boys but Texas state rules prohibited it.  So he won the Texas high school girls wrestling championship twice and was undefeated for like two years.  And was booed by opposing teams.  That doesn't sound so great.

I've read just about all of your posts here.... I'll be honest.  I don't know what to think about this topic specifically anymore.  Not because I am incapable of forming an opinion (we all know that isn't my problem) but because I have tried to do my best in this past year to see the world through my kids' eyes.  I can handle what this world has become because of the pandemic and I can see the issues that I deal with and I have the ability to handle them - in good ways and bad.

But they still don't.  For any number of reasons that the are the fault of me, my wife, fate and circumstances. But I still try to figure it out as best I can.  And ultimately, where I keep going back to on this specific topic is this - I don't know the right answer.  I really don't. But I know that if it were my kid, I'm moving heaven and earth to allow them the ability to express themselves and know that they are worth more than any label of any kind.  And I also know that isn't a great way to decide every issue, but on this one I think I'm ok saying do what we have to do, in each unique circumstance, to make sure that children know that they are valued not because of anything a government or city say but because they are human (and I would add God's creation, but I know you won't go there).  

Let them play where they want.  Ultimately, I do disagree with a point made here on what youth sports is.  Youth sports should be nothing more than another learning tool for children so that they are exposed to teamwork, hard work, preparation, decision making, leadership, empathy, healthy competition, the value of other people, and the worth of themselves.  I'm not a trophy for everyone guy and likely never will be, but every kid that tries out, that makes a team, that practices, that plays, that scores, that defends, that wins and that loses does something extraordinary.  They do something more than themselves.  We should always find a way to honor and encourage that.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

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5 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

Maybe this is hypocritical, and maybe not, but I don't see why we would want to limit trans males from competing with males since they don't have any sort of natural competitive advantage.  I think the rules should literally be to limit biological males from competing in female sports and that is it.  We let females play football all of the time around the country, but there are no boys on the girls basketball/soccer/softball/volleyball teams.  It seems to be a simple, logical solution.

I agree, and moreover I was under the impression that we mostly already do this.  I'm sure there exceptions involving specific sports and/or specific states, but my understanding is that what we refer to as "men's sports" is really open to anybody, not just people who identify as men or who were born male.  I'm 100% sure that's the case for many leagues, and I've always assumed that that's the reason why we end up with the occasional female PK and the occasional girl who wrestles against boys.  I don't have any problem with that whatsoever.

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What about non-black guys in the 100m?

I had to go down to #39th fastest person all time to find an athlete that was obviously not black.  Bingtian Su from China.  I stopped at #50 as I didn't find any people of (only) European ancestry.  Sure I was only looking at photos, so I could be wrong, but it sure seems that people of European ancestry are getting dominated in this event.  Should the playing field be levelled? 

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11 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I topped out at a 4:34 mile in the year 2000. There was recruiting interest at the D3 level, but passive is the word I'd use to describe it. I would have been the high school female U.S. record holder until 2014.

I played basketball at an NAIA school.  At 6'2" and 210 lbs I could dunk and had both post and guard skills.  In men's basketball, I was a small college role player.

But, I would have been the greatest female basketball player in history and that is not an exaggeration.

The difference is so vast is the reason this is such an issue.  Testosterone doesn't just add body hair and lower the voice.  It adds inches to height, pounds to the body, additional bone strength and additional muscle mass.  It doesn't even remotely compare to the racial integration whereby there is a % disparity when compared to total population.  It would be the trans females absolutely dominating the cis females with no hope for improvement.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

What about non-black guys in the 100m?

I had to go down to #39th fastest person all time to find an athlete that was obviously not black.  Bingtian Su from China.  I stopped at #50 as I didn't find any people of (only) European ancestry.  Sure I was only looking at photos, so I could be wrong, but it sure seems that people of European ancestry are getting dominated in this event.  Should the playing field be levelled? 

Yeah, you are talking fractions of second.  The difference between men's and women's record is nearly a full second.  There are tens of thousands of male sprinters in history that would be the women's world record holder.

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3 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

What about non-black guys in the 100m?

I had to go down to #39th fastest person all time to find an athlete that was obviously not black.  Bingtian Su from China.  I stopped at #50 as I didn't find any people of (only) European ancestry.  Sure I was only looking at photos, so I could be wrong, but it sure seems that people of European ancestry are getting dominated in this event.  Should the playing field be levelled? 

You're a page too late with this.

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7 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I've always assumed that that's the reason why we end up with the occasional female PK and the occasional girl who wrestles against boys. 

I think this is usually because there is no girls equivalent of a men’s team.  A girl can be the kicker on the boy’s football team because there’s no girls football team and that’s her only option if she wants to play.  By contrast, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a story about a girl playing on a high school boys soccer or basketball team, and I believe that would be prohibited in most places.

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3 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

Yeah, you are talking fractions of second.  The difference between men's and women's record is nearly a full second.  There are tens of thousands of male sprinters in history that would be the women's world record holder.

But the reality is that white guys can't compete.  Isn't that unfair?

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I think this is usually because there is no girls equivalent of a men’s team.  A girl can be the kicker on the boy’s football team because there’s no girls football team and that’s her only option if she wants to play.  By contrast, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a story about a girl playing on a high school boys soccer or basketball team, and I believe that would be prohibited in most places.

It's actually fairly common in schools where they don't have a girls team.

https://www.nj.com/union/2017/02/girl_can_play_on_boys_basketball_team_judge_says_a.html

https://www.courant.com/sports/high-schools/hc-sp-riley-column-porter-aerospace-boys-soccer-1111-story.html

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4 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

But the reality is that white guys can't compete.  Isn't that unfair?

Not winning or in this case, holding the world record, isn't the same as not competing.

HTH. 

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5 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

Not winning or in this case, holding the world record, isn't the same as not competing.

HTH. 

So those girls/women can still compete against trans women, even if they lose or don't get a title.  Same thing?  Only difference is that there are far more people of African heritage than trans women.

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11 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

So those girls/women can still compete against trans women, even if they lose or don't get a title.  Same thing?  Only difference is that there are far more people of African heritage than trans women.

This is the sort of horrible logic is why the left isn't taken seriously by like 1/2 the country. I don't know if you are trying to legitimately make this argument or being disingenuous. A top male high school sprinter is faster than any woman ever. Believing that a trans woman is the same thing as a biological woman is like believing in Qanon. The mental gymnastics and denial needed is astounding. 

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8 minutes ago, rcam said:

This is the sort of horrible logic is why the left isn't taken seriously by like 1/2 the country. I don't know if you are trying to legitimately make this argument or being disingenuous. A top male high school sprinter is faster than any woman ever. Believing that a trans woman is the same thing as a biological woman is like believing in Qanon. The mental gymnastics and denial needed is astounding. 

I don't think anyone has argued that they are the same. This debate, which you just cannonballed into, has been discussing what and where is the appropriate place for trans athletes to compete. It is not a simple answer unless one just dismisses the complications surrounding transitioning males/females.

And Qanon talks about made up satanic rituals and sacrifices. Trans ahtletes are most assuredly real.

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40 minutes ago, Jayrod said:
44 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I think this is usually because there is no girls equivalent of a men’s team.  A girl can be the kicker on the boy’s football team because there’s no girls football team and that’s her only option if she wants to play.  By contrast, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a story about a girl playing on a high school boys soccer or basketball team, and I believe that would be prohibited in most places.

It's actually fairly common in schools where they don't have a girls team.

https://www.nj.com/union/2017/02/girl_can_play_on_boys_basketball_team_judge_says_a.html

https://www.courant.com/sports/high-schools/hc-sp-riley-column-porter-aerospace-boys-soccer-1111-story.html

Right, this seems consistent with the concept I described of "if there's no opportunity to play the sport with your gender you can play with the other gender."

Speaking of that, someone in this thread earlier was talking about how some boys play on girls field hockey teams because they have no opportunity to play with their own gender.  Does anyone have any more info about that?  Has it destroyed field hockey for the girls that play?  It seems like we might be able gain some insight there, but i just don't really know anything about it.

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16 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Right, this seems consistent with the concept I described of "if there's no opportunity to play the sport with your gender you can play with the other gender."

Speaking of that, someone in this thread earlier was talking about how some boys play on girls field hockey teams because they have no opportunity to play with their own gender.  Does anyone have any more info about that?  Has it destroyed field hockey for the girls that play?  It seems like we might be able gain some insight there, but i just don't really know anything about it.

Here are the top two articles from a google search:

https://usatodayhss.com/2018/the-war-against-boys-playing-field-hockey-is-organizing-in-mass

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/18/sports/high-school-sports-in-field-hockey-a-twist-on-title-ix.html (Mike Wise!)

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8 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

I don't think anyone has argued that they are the same. This debate, which you just cannonballed into, has been discussing what and where is the appropriate place for trans athletes to compete. It is not a simple answer unless one just dismisses the complications surrounding transitioning males/females.

And Qanon talks about made up satanic rituals and sacrifices. Trans ahtletes are most assuredly real.

It is simple - you compete with your biological sex assuming you aren't taking what would be considered PEDs to transition. PEDs ban you from sports - full stop.

This isn't solely related to trans - but if a biological female wants to compete in a biological male's sport. Go right ahead. I don't have any issue with female football players, or wrestlers, or baseball, etc. etc. 

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5 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Thanks, that was helpful.  Some really interesting things from this article:

1)

Quote

For now, there’s nothing formal that Quinn, other coaches or even MIAA officials can do to completely stop boys from participating in field hockey; the right for boys to compete on girls team when a sport is enshrined in legal precedent. Massachusetts was the first state to rule it was unconstitutional to bar a player from competing based solely on gender some three decades ago. 

I haven't read this legal decision but it seems to me that this reasoning would apply to trans athletes pretty easily.  We've been talking about this all as just public policy but it seems possible that the courts will force the issue.

2) 

Quote

What’s interesting is that from a sheer data perspective, not that much has changed statewide. In 2011, there were 31 boys playing field hockey across some 20 teams alongside girls in the state of Massachusetts. In the 2017-18 school year, that number increased to 36. Officially, 7,914 girls competed on teams across the state. That’s a negligible increase (from a statistical perspective), and one which still leads the total number of male participants in stark relief to their female counterparts; there’s just one boy playing field hockey in Massachusetts for every 219 girls. ... the MIAA reported to a court that there were 20-30 boys playing field hockey in the state in 1985, further demonstrating a broader stability in the participation numbers across the state.

This seems to me to be pretty convincing evidence that people aren't going to pretend to be trans just to dominate in sports. 

Is there anyone in this thread that thinks these boys SHOULD be able to play field hockey but trans female athletes SHOULDN'T be allowed to compete on girls teams?  I'm guessing no but I'd be interested to hear if someone does.

From my perspective the argument in favor of trans participation is much stronger than the argument that these boys should be able to play on the girls field hockey team.

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7 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Thanks, that was helpful.  Some really interesting things from this article:

1)

I haven't read this legal decision but it seems to me that this reasoning would apply to trans athletes pretty easily.  We've been talking about this all as just public policy but it seems possible that the courts will force the issue.

2) 

This seems to me to be pretty convincing evidence that people aren't going to pretend to be trans just to dominate in sports. 

Is there anyone in this thread that thinks these boys SHOULD be able to play field hockey but trans female athletes SHOULDN'T be allowed to compete on girls teams?  I'm guessing no but I'd be interested to hear if someone does.

From my perspective the argument in favor of trans participation is much stronger than the argument that these boys should be able to play on the girls field hockey team.

 

1) I don't think it is the same issue. Generally, the sport a trans person wants to play is available.

2) I don't think they should be allowed to play. They need to find a club/private team or pick another sport. 

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4 minutes ago, rcam said:

1) I don't think it is the same issue. Generally, the sport a trans person wants to play is available.

Right, it's not the exact same issue but the questions regarding competitive balance, safety, and "fairness" seem pretty identical.  The difference between the situations is about whether the arguments in favor of male field hockey players or trans athletes outweigh those concerns.  Apparently Massachusetts courts determined that giving male students an opportunity to play interscholastic field hockey outweighed concerns about competitive balance, etc.  From my perspective, the trans athletes have much more compelling arguments on their side than do the male field hockey players.

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

But the reality is that white guys can't compete.  Isn't that unfair?

Scientifically speaking what would you say is the cause of this? 

We can make an informed decision when comparing men and women since the science involved is pretty clear. Since you made the comparison, can you please provide us with the differences explaining this so we can also have an informed discussion? 

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

Scientifically speaking what would you say is the cause of this? 

We can make an informed decision when comparing men and women since the science involved is pretty clear. Since you made the comparison, can you please provide us with the differences explaining this so we can also have an informed discussion? 

I think there are probably a variety of different factors that explain why different racial groups tend to be more successful at different sports.  Is it your opinion that the reason why makes a difference in terms of "fairness"?  Like if black people are genetically better at sports that's unfair to the white people but if they're just better at sports due to environmental reasons that's fair to the white people?  If that's where you're going with this can you try to flesh out why?

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2 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I think there are probably a variety of different factors that explain why different racial groups tend to be more successful at different sports.  Is it your opinion that the reason why makes a difference in terms of "fairness"?  Like if black people are genetically better at sports that's unfair to the white people but if they're just better at sports due to environmental reasons that's fair to the white people?  If that's where you're going with this can you try to flesh out why?

We know the physical differences between the sexes and we know that this is why the debate of biological males competing against biological females exists. So if somebody is attempting to make a comparison to another scenario it is either based on a well established physical difference or it is a completely worthless comparison. 

I just need some more information before I can decide.

 

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I'm all in favor of off-beat hypotheticals, counter-examples, and thought experiments.  But "Please help me flesh out an argument for why black people are better at sports than white people" is sort of a honeypot that would tend to generate bans on a lot of forums. 

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

We know the physical differences between the sexes and we know that this is why the debate of biological males competing against biological females exists. So if somebody is attempting to make a comparison to another scenario it is either based on a well established physical difference or it is a completely worthless comparison. 

I just need some more information before I can decide.

 

I guess I'm just not following you.

Girls tend to be worse at sports than boys.  We know this because we can watch people play sports.  We can see them compete against each other.  If girls and boys all competed against each other, most of the best players would be boys.  That's why we have girls leagues - because the absence of such leagues would reduce the opportunity for girls to meaningfully participate and/or succeed in sports.  Several posters here have characterized this interest as "fairness."

By analogy, at least with respect to certain sports, black kids tend to be better than white kids.  We know this because we can watch people play sports.  We can see them compete against each other.  When white kids and black kids compete against each other in certain sports, for example the 100 meter run, most of the best runners will be black.  Given the above, the question is whether "white leagues" would be defensible for the same reason as "girls leagues."  It's admittedly a provocative question and I don't think anyone is advocating for white leagues, we're just analogizing the situations so that we can better understand whether this notion of "fairness" is being applied consistently or if something else is going on.  It seems like if it's unfair for girls to compete with boys, then maybe it's similarly unfair for white boys to compete with black boys in the 100 meters, but nobody seems to be making that argument.

Most of the posters here that have tried to distinguish the situations have done so based on the perceived size of the advantage.  The difference between boys and girls seems to be much larger than the difference between white and black athletes.  I don't find this explanation especially satisfying but at least I understand the argument being made.

You seem to be making a different argument, as best as I can tell.  Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like your argument is that we need to look even more deeply.  It's not enough to simply say that one group is better than another group, we need to evaluate WHY that group is better to determine whether something is fair.  If the difference is due to physiological factors, then its unfair for the superior groups to compete with the inferior group.  But if the differences are due to other reasons such as environmental ones, then maybe it isn't unfair.  So my first objective is just to understand if that's actually your argument.  And then if it is, I'd like to understand why the reason that a group is better matters to whether having that group compete would be fair.

And then depending on those answers I probably have a bunch of other follow up questions.  

 

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

But the reality is that white guys can't compete.  Isn't that unfair?

You're asking a questions that can't be answered because of political correctness.

I think you're assuming the answer is no because of pollical correctness.

49 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Scientifically speaking what would you say is the cause of this? 

We can make an informed decision when comparing men and women since the science involved is pretty clear. Since you made the comparison, can you please provide us with the differences explaining this so we can also have an informed discussion? 

I will just leave this here.

9 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I'm all in favor of off-beat hypotheticals, counter-examples, and thought experiments.  But "Please help me flesh out an argument for why black people are better at sports than white people" is sort of a honeypot that would tend to generate bans on a lot of forums. 

Yep.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I guess I'm just not following you.

Girls tend to be worse at sports than boys.  We know this because we can watch people play sports.

No. We know this because we know the obvious well documented and tested physical differences. That is why nobody(that is rational) says women just haven't been playing the same amount of time. Or women just haven't had as many opportunities and just need to play with the men for a while or if we spent more money training women they would be just as good at football as the men.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

Just wait until a small college recruits an entire team of transgender basketball players and wins the womens national championship.

Or a local businessman trying to get respect recruits some transgendered youth to win the local soccer championship. The long term effects will be devastating. 

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9 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:
17 minutes ago, Synthesizer said:

Just wait until a small college recruits an entire team of transgender basketball players and wins the womens national championship.

Or a local businessman trying to get respect recruits some transgendered youth to win the local soccer championship. The long term effects will be devastating. 

It seems like somebody could have done this much more easily with boys playing girls field hockey in Massachusetts any time over the last several decades but it doesn’t sound like it ever happened. 

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5 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It seems like somebody could have done this much more easily with boys playing girls field hockey in Massachusetts any time over the last several decades but it doesn’t sound like it ever happened. 

Saving that for the sequel

Dangerfield Hockey. 

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9 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It seems like somebody could have done this much more easily with boys playing girls field hockey in Massachusetts any time over the last several decades but it doesn’t sound like it ever happened. 

I'd imagine that if enough boys started playing field hockey to make it viable, they'd start a boys field hockey league

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3 minutes ago, nysfl2 said:
13 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It seems like somebody could have done this much more easily with boys playing girls field hockey in Massachusetts any time over the last several decades but it doesn’t sound like it ever happened. 

I'd imagine that if enough boys started playing field hockey to make it viable, they'd start a boys field hockey league

Right, I agree with that.  But I can imagine some school district creating a juggernaut by teaching boys how to play field hockey in middle school and encouraging them to join the girls field hockey team when they reached high school.  That does not seem to have happened, which is evidence to me that it's unlikely that someplace is going to start recruiting all trans girls to make a superteam of basketball or soccer players.  I think the parade of horribles that people are concerned about seem overblown.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Right, I agree with that.  But I can imagine some school district creating a juggernaut by teaching boys how to play field hockey in middle school and encouraging them to join the girls field hockey team when they reached high school.  That does not seem to have happened, which is evidence to me that it's unlikely that someplace is going to start recruiting all trans girls to make a superteam of basketball or soccer players.  I think the parade of horribles that people are concerned about seem overblown.

Yeah, that seems super unlikely

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30 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Right, I agree with that.  But I can imagine some school district creating a juggernaut by teaching boys how to play field hockey in middle school and encouraging them to join the girls field hockey team when they reached high school.  That does not seem to have happened, which is evidence to me that it's unlikely that someplace is going to start recruiting all trans girls to make a superteam of basketball or soccer players.  I think the parade of horribles that people are concerned about seem overblown.

You think any self respecting man wants to have a trophy in his room that says he was the girls field hockey champ?  Probably go over real well when his varsity basketball buddies come over.  Seriously, what's the gain for them?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, John123 said:

You think any self respecting man wants to have a trophy in his room that says he was the girls field hockey champ?  Probably go over real well when his varsity basketball buddies come over.  Seriously, what's the gain for them?

I agree with you.  Some people earlier in this thread suggested that boys would falsely claim to be trans just to play girls sports.  I was addressing that claim.

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3 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

No. We know this because we know the obvious well documented and tested physical differences. That is why nobody(that is rational) says women just haven't been playing the same amount of time. Or women just haven't had as many opportunities and just need to play with the men for a while or if we spent more money training women they would be just as good at football as the men.

 

I remember back in college reading about how the trends were showing that women were catching up to men in sprinting and swimming and such. However, looks like that has stagnated, and peak women performance is about 90% of peak men performence.

With one exception. Ultra endurance running/biking/swimming

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2 hours ago, John123 said:

You think any self respecting man wants to have a trophy in his room that says he was the girls field hockey champ?  Probably go over real well when his varsity basketball buddies come over.  Seriously, what's the gain for them?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I agree with you.  

I can’t understand why Mack Beggs for example would continue wrestling against girls.
It’s pretty obvious he’s going to dominate the females who he has a huge physical advantage over. What’s the point? 

Piling up trophies?

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2 hours ago, John123 said:

You think any self respecting man wants to have a trophy in his room that says he was the girls field hockey champ?  Probably go over real well when his varsity basketball buddies come over.  Seriously, what's the gain for them?

 

A few of these dudes were from Europe if I remember correctly. In most of the world, field hockey is a men's sport. 

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21 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

I remember back in college reading about how the trends were showing that women were catching up to men in sprinting and swimming and such. However, looks like that has stagnated, and peak women performance is about 90% of peak men performence.

With one exception. Ultra endurance running/biking/swimming

This is probably a dumb question, but what's the disparity in ultra endurance?  (This is idle curiosity -- I know these sports are irrelevant to the topic at hand).

Edited by IvanKaramazov
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