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DC as 51st state (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter stlrams
- Start date
Battersbox
Footballguy
Perhaps the average D.C. resident has no special power, but they certainly benefit from power being more centralized in D.C. Which is really what the Senate is about--the constant battle between power being centered in D.C. versus power left to disparate states.
Battersbox
Footballguy
They are swing states. The GOP won 10 presidential elections in a row prior to Obama in VA.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
How do they benefit? They don't even have the right to pass laws of their choosing without Congressional approval. They are second class citizens.
the moops
Footballguy
Battersbox
Footballguy
Power, money, countless ways. Hundreds of millions of people are compelled to send money to the Federal government. Much of that money finds its way into the local economy there.
And if they're second-class citizens (I don't think they are), they have the ability to move a few miles away and leave the district. That's one of the benefits of Federalism...people are free to reside in a state more in tune with their belief system.
It is all candidate dependent. If the GOP has a Trump-like candidate, it is solid blue. But put a more traditional GOP candidate and it becomes a swing state.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Would you be OK with a million people who don't live in your state deciding who your Senators are?
They get free access to many local high-quality museums. I'm not sure that means they shouldn't get to vote, but it is a pretty sweet benefit that people in other areas don't have.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Battersbox
Footballguy
If they lived within just a few miles of the state line? Yes, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
Battersbox
Footballguy
New Jersey doesn't directly benefit from centralized national power like D.C. does. Not to mention, that would be removing representation, rather than granting representation.
But yeah, anyone living in N.J. has the ability to live in other states.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
The proximity to the border is irrelevant. They have their own interests. I see no difference between letting them vote in Maryland than voting in Wyoming
Battersbox
Footballguy
You think voters in D.C. are unlikely to have more shared interests with people than Va or Md than Wyoming? I don't believe you.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Battersbox
Footballguy
Sure. But they are likely similar to the interests of Virginians or Marylanders rather than Wyoming(ers).
I agree different regions and states have their own interests. All the more reason the Senate should retain the power of safeguarding the interests of those who live thousands of miles from the national center of power.
I feel like D.C. having two senators is akin to allowing the dealer at a poker table the chance to win the pot. He's already getting his 10% of the rake. His job is to referee the interests of the other players at the table.
the moops
Footballguy
Obama won by 6 and 4 points. While not a a ridiculous blue outcome, it is more blue than you are making it out to be.
And you still are ignoring Maryland
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
And Obama won by 7 and 4 percent overall. So right in line with nation wide results.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Presidential elections favor Republicans because of the electoral college.
Senate elections favor Republicans because of the two-Senators-per-state thing.
The judiciary favors Republicans because it is selected exclusively by the above two groups.
So even if the House were in some sort of state of equipoise, it is just half of one branch, and the federal government as a whole would still very imbalanced. And due to gerrymandering, the House actually favors Republicans right now too, so the imbalance stretches to every part of our federal system.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Gerrymandering = You'd rather the left draw the districts than the right?
Why are more states Republican than Democrat? Maybe the Dems should look into that since they have so many more voters as you said.
the moops
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Gerrymandering is done on both sides, but the republicans have taken it to a whole new level. I can't speak for fatguy, but I don't want either side creating districts to give themselves such a ridiculous advantage. I want an impartial committee or a computer program to create districts
Seriously, looks at the gerrymander maps. How hard is it just create normal non-partisan districts. It would be super easy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
My preference would be independent commissions with transparent computer algorithms. But my point is only that the status quo unfairly benefits Republicans. There are lots of different ways to make things more even.
Yeah I've been trying to get a mass exodus of California liberals to move to places like Wyoming and the Dakotas to turn those states blue but so far it's been tough going.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
This is true. I don't think I have ever seen a democrat introduce a bill that would make it more difficult for rural folks to vote, for instance
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
If by recently you mean as far back as my memory goes, then yes. Perhaps I missed some though
Depending on how old you are, you definitely missed a few things between, say, 1877 and 1965.
This is a good point.
A swing state with democrats in power should put voting stations only downtown in their major cities and then not allow parking anywhere near it. Only transit can get you there. Then they should say the only time you can vote is sundays between 9-11am
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fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
That will never happen. Dave Wasserman on Twitter is a great follow if you're interested in congressional districts and how the remapping may go in each state. Each side is interested in creating safe districts for themselves.
of course they are but it seems like it would be reasonable to have a computer just generate them based on population and proximity. It's not a hard thing to do
Shula-holic
Footballguy
To me this is a huge part of our federalism. The states bestow the power to the central government. It is true we have concentrated numbers in a few states for the Democrats right now, specifically California. But this is a modern development, where we've become polarized in many ways as urban vs rural. For all the arguments people can make about gerrymandering, this result in the Senate isn't by some Republican design.
Voting trends developing this way does help Republicans but I don't see that as a valid reason for altering our system to try and change the outcome. I get your position though, for me the whole gerrymandering of districts and now potentially adding states to fix outcomes is very dangerous to our system. I'd be all for some equitable way to fairly divide districts through some algorithm. But therein lies our problem, what one side would deem fair the other would deem biased, because of the results of one program versus another.
In my view all these safe districts lead to only the primaries being relevant where only the most extreme politicians who can pass the litmus test can win. There are a dwindling number of truly competitive districts and that's truly a shame and I think a contributing factor to our divisiveness.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
It's totally reasonable but hard for one reason.... the sides would never agree on which program would be "fair". Each side will find what they deem fair, and surprise, surprise, it would net them more seats.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Maybe some day, but something would have to stop the polarization for it to ever occur and for the life of me I'm not sure what that would be.
Honest question, when as a Country did we become this unreasonable? We are in deep trouble
Is there a vague sense that it's not as bad for Republicans to act anti-democratically since they are in the minority? Like it's punching up when they do it? But for Democrats to use similar tactics would be an abomination?
zoonation
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yeah, VA isn't voting Republican for President any time soon. Republicans won 13/14, but have now lost four straight and the blue part of the state is growing much faster than the rest of it.
It went for Biden +10 this year.
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