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Rank the order of Starting Quarterbacks in the NFC West with Matt Stafford joining the LA Rams (1 Viewer)

Ministry of Pain

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
With Stafford entering into the West now, it definitely has an impact in a pretty strong division where a case can be made for the Playoffs with almost all 4 of these teams presently depending on your opinion of Arizona. 

1. Russell WIlson: I'm not his biggest fan and would love to eventually slide him off this spot but his records speak for themselves and I'd only look foolish trying to argue against him starting at the top of this list. 

2. Matt Stafford: He has to be better than Jimmy G right now and I don't think you can slide Murray ahead of him. I am talking in NFL terms not just raw fantasy stats, I am looking at leadership and different things. I will say that Stafford is only 14-25-1 in his last 40 starts. He has 12 full seasons under his belt and he has taken a beating over the years. I like him in general but I can never point to anything specific he does to win football games. I know he has had little to work with but there were times he had some talent at least at the skill positions. 

3. Kyler Murray: Not a lot to say, another guy I am not the biggest fan of and see limited ability for him to grow and get leaps and bounds better but we'll see. 

4. Jimmy G: He can't hardly stay on the field and he could leap frog a spot or two but clearly to me he is bottom of the 4 right now. I wonder if Kyle Shanahan views it that way. 

 
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If you are going to rate QB's on their win-loss record, you woukd conclude that Goff is a far superior QB than Stafford.  But for some odd reason the Rams had to give up 2 first rounders and a third to make the swap.  Stafford has never had a good O-line, never had an effective run game, and the defense was usually ranked towards the botfom of the league.  On top of that, Detroit has had a merry go round of coaches who generally sucked.  But despite all that was able to lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks during his career.  

Stafford has an elite arm, top 3 in the NFL.  That is why many teams which spend $180 million on players salaries and are valued at billions of dollars were fighting over him and offering to mortgage their franchise to do it. 

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
2. Matt Stafford: I like him in general but I can never point to anything specific he does to win football games. 
Click to expand...
Here's one thing...

...tying the legendary John Elway for the 7th most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history. With 31 of them to his credit, they’re also the most of any NFL quarterback since 2009:

https://detroitsportsnation.com/matthew-stafford-ties-john-elway-for-7th-most-4th-quarter-comebacks/mwhitaker/detroit-lions-news/12/06/2020/240598/

 
jon_mx said:
If you are going to rate QB's on their win-loss record, you woukd conclude that Goff is a far superior QB than Stafford.  But for some odd reason the Rams had to give up 2 first rounders and a third to make the swap.  Stafford has never had a good O-line, never had an effective run game, and the defense was usually ranked towards the botfom of the league.  On top of that, Detroit has had a merry go round of coaches who generally sucked.  But despite all that was able to lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks during his career.  

Stafford has an elite arm, top 3 in the NFL.  That is why many teams which spend $180 million on players salaries and are valued at billions of dollars were fighting over him and offering to mortgage their franchise to do it. 
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Top 3 arm? Be serious. He's finished in the top 5 in yards/attempt exactly twice. 

Here are the stats Stafford has led the league in:

  • Pass attempts (twice)
  • Pass completions (once)
  • Pick-sixes (three times including 2020)
  • Fumbles (once)
He's an OK starter. A poor man's Drew Bledsoe. if he were special he would have shown it sometime in the past 12 years.

 
CalBear said:
Top 3 arm? Be serious. He's finished in the top 5 in yards/attempt exactly twice. 

Here are the stats Stafford has led the league in:

  • Pass attempts (twice)
  • Pass completions (once)
  • Pick-sixes (three times including 2020)
  • Fumbles (once)
He's an OK starter. A poor man's Drew Bledsoe. if he were special he would have shown it sometime in the past 12 years.
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Someone who knows a thing or two about foorball....

 Bill Belichick’s comments on Stafford (Sept. 19, 2018): “As good as there is in football. He’s got great weapons. He does an excellent job of seeing down the field in all situations. No matter how much pressure he’s under, he seems to find guys down there. Sometimes it appears that they’re covered, but he can put the ball where [Marvin] Jones in particular, but also [Kenny] Golladay, can go up and make plays on the ball. He’s very accurate and he’s got a strong arm. He can stand in there and make those throws, with or without a rush, in or out of the pocket, stationary or on the run. He’s extremely dangerous — one of the very best in the league for sure.”

 
CalBear said:
Top 3 arm? Be serious. He's finished in the top 5 in yards/attempt exactly twice. 

Here are the stats Stafford has led the league in:

  • Pass attempts (twice)
  • Pass completions (once)
  • Pick-sixes (three times including 2020)
  • Fumbles (once)
He's an OK starter. A poor man's Drew Bledsoe. if he were special he would have shown it sometime in the past 12 years.
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🙄

 
Stoneworker said:
Here's one thing...

...tying the legendary John Elway for the 7th most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history. With 31 of them to his credit, they’re also the most of any NFL quarterback since 2009:

https://detroitsportsnation.com/matthew-stafford-ties-john-elway-for-7th-most-4th-quarter-comebacks/mwhitaker/detroit-lions-news/12/06/2020/240598/
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I think some of this has to do with always looking at a prevent defense, Lions lose a lot of football games. Marino has a bunch of come from behind victories and '86, '87, '88 and yes '89...the Miami Dolphins did not make the Playoffs, that's like almost half the careers of guys like Mark Duper, Mark Clayton, etc...they were playing from behind because they had a lousy defense. I don't think it makes Stafford very special at the moment. I did rank him 2nd in the Division...

 
Stoneworker said:
Here's one thing...

...tying the legendary John Elway for the 7th most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history. With 31 of them to his credit, they’re also the most of any NFL quarterback since 2009:

https://detroitsportsnation.com/matthew-stafford-ties-john-elway-for-7th-most-4th-quarter-comebacks/mwhitaker/detroit-lions-news/12/06/2020/240598/
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The comebacks are somewhat of a misnomer.  Having watching almost every game Stafford played as a Lion many of the comebacks were because he played so poory in the first half, first three quarters that the Lions were always losing 17-7, 21-10.  Then he would play good the last quarter.   They don`t mention all the games where he played poorly in this first half and did not come back. 

OK..that is just about the comebacks.  Stafford is a solid QB with a strong arm who is probably in the 10-12 range for starting QBs.  Will he make big plays for the Rams?  Yes, will he throw some untimely INTs?  Yes.  The Rams will be better with Stafford and the Lions should be better without him if they draft well.  So it was good for both.  Stafford is 33 so he needed to go to a team like the Rams who are more ready to win now.

Lions would be 5-11 with Stafford next year and they can be 5-11 with Goff as well.

Stafford is a good guy and I wish him well. Rams fans do not boo unless you want his wife yelling at you on Twitter and Insta.

 
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I agree with MoP's ordering of the QBs (Wilson, Stafford, Murray, Garoppolo).  The Niners may still upgrade at QB, but short of a blockbuster trade to acquire Deshaun Watson, which seems fairly unlikely, it is hard to imagine them moving up from the bottom of this list.  The NFC West should be very competitive; I don't think you can dismiss any of the teams as legitimate contenders to win the Division.  

 
Razors Edge said:
I mean, why are you eyerolling facts? Those are where he finished. 

The love for Stafford is unfounded. He dont win and he dont have statistical success. Other than that he is pretty good. 

Two, just two 30 TD seasons. In a passing league....on a pass first team. With Calvin.

But he will do better on another run first team that the HC clearly holds grudges on players? Wait until McVay learns about the hassle of the QB wife. 
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Kelly Stafford is the sister of one of McVay's best friends.

 
Razors Edge said:
How did he do without Tom Brady?

How is Brady doing without Bill?

But tell us how much Bill knows...

Why is it no one wants to go to NE to play for the great messiah including Stafford? Also, why is it all his coaches go elsewhere and stink with his style? Cuz his style dont work without a guy named Brady. 
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Stafford wanted to go the the Rams.  I am not sure if Stafford actually singled out NE, but if he did it was more about Matt Patricia who created bad blood by trying to blame Stafford for the Lions downfall.    New England has eight players opt out this season due to COVID.  Belichick is still the GOAT of NFL coaches and trying to blow off his opinion as some kind of idiot is not a good look.  Aaron Rogers feels the same way about Stafford.  Stafford will be in the top 5 of MVP candidates next year and not WIlson or Murray. 

 
Da Guru said:
The comebacks are somewhat of a misnomer.  Having watching almost every game Stafford played as a Lion many of the comebacks were because he played so poory in the first half, first three quarters that the Lions were always losing 17-7, 21-10.  Then he would play good the last quarter.   They don`t mention all the games where he played poorly in this first half and did not come back. 

OK..that is just about the comebacks.  Stafford is a solid QB with a strong arm who is probably in the 10-12 range for starting QBs.  Will he make big plays for the Rams?  Yes, will he throw some untimely INTs?  Yes.  The Rams will be better with Stafford and the Lions should be better without him if they draft well.  So it was good for both.  Stafford is 33 so he needed to go to a team like the Rams who are more ready to win now.

Lions would be 5-11 with Stafford next year and they can be 5-11 with Goff as well.

Stafford is a good guy and I wish him well. Rams fans do not boo unless you want his wife yelling at you on Twitter and Insta.
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I would argue that the Lions offense was terrible the first three quarters because of the total lack of a running game.  When Stafford was running the no-huddle offense where the run game is not important, he was gold.  Stafford's arm is elite.  Surrounded by a good line with a legit running game, he is in the discussion for MVP.  Goff is a decent QB, probably upper half of the league.  But he will look like garbage next year.   

 
jon_mx said:
Stafford wanted to go the the Rams.  I am not sure if Stafford actually singled out NE, but if he did it was more about Matt Patricia who created bad blood by trying to blame Stafford for the Lions downfall.    New England has eight players opt out this season due to COVID.  Belichick is still the GOAT of NFL coaches and trying to blow off his opinion as some kind of idiot is not a good look.  Aaron Rogers feels the same way about Stafford.  Stafford will be in the top 5 of MVP candidates next year and not WIlson or Murray. 
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a bold take on a guy who's made one Pro Bowl in 12 seasons (as the fourth alternate), despite playing more than half of his career with the best receiver in the league.

 
jon_mx said:
I would argue that the Lions offense was terrible the first three quarters because of the total lack of a running game.  When Stafford was running the no-huddle offense where the run game is not important, he was gold.  Stafford's arm is elite.  Surrounded by a good line with a legit running game, he is in the discussion for MVP.  Goff is a decent QB, probably upper half of the league.  But he will look like garbage next year.   
Click to expand...
Lions would be 5-11 tops with Stafford or Goff next year.    Lions need 8-9 new starters on defense and have no good WRs under contract right now. don`t get me wrong I like Stafford and hope does well.   Stafford does have an elite arm, but many NFL QBs do, that does not translate to an elite QB .

 
CalBear said:
Wow, that's a bold take on a guy who's made one Pro Bowl in 12 seasons (as the fourth alternate), despite playing more than half of his career with the best receiver in the league.
Click to expand...
People underestimate how bad the Lions organization is.  Stafford has had good targets to throw to.  But winning football requires good coach, good defense, good pass protection, and a good run game.  Detroit is near the bottom in all those.  Their coach staff has been a circus and generally has sucked.  They have had the least number of 100 yard rushers in the NFL for decades.  They are consistently a bottom 10 defense, last year was #30.   And Stafford has been running for his life and taking big hits his whole career.  It is great to have awesome receivers, but there is a ton more to football.  That is why you have 53 players on a team.  Winning is not about 1 or 2.

 
Da Guru said:
Lions would be 5-11 tops with Stafford or Goff next year.    Lions need 8-9 new starters on defense and have no good WRs under contract right now. don`t get me wrong I like Stafford and hope does well.   Stafford does have an elite arm, but many NFL QBs do, that does not translate to an elite QB .
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Stafford makes throws only 2 other guys can make.  

 
Da Guru said:
Well then the Rams should win the Superbowl next year.
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The odds are against any single team to win the Super Bowl, but the LA Rams super bowl chances just went up significantly.  

Looking at the Vegas Odds, the pre-Stafford Rams were 20 to 1.  The Stafford-lead Rams are 11 to 1. Seemingly doubled the Rams chances of winning.  

 
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jon_mx said:
People underestimate how bad the Lions organization is.  Stafford has had good targets to throw to.  But winning football requires good coach, good defense, good pass protection, and a good run game.  Detroit is near the bottom in all those.  Their coach staff has been a circus and generally has sucked.  They have had the least number of 100 yard rushers in the NFL for decades.  They are consistently a bottom 10 defense, last year was #30.   And Stafford has been running for his life and taking big hits his whole career.  It is great to have awesome receivers, but there is a ton more to football.  That is why you have 53 players on a team.  Winning is not about 1 or 2.
Click to expand...
We're talking about a QB who hasn't managed to be a first-team Pro Bowl selection even once in his career.

To give you a sense of how pathetic that is, here's a sample of some of the other QBs who've made the Pro Bowl more recently than Stafford:

  • Kirk Cousins
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Mitch Trubisky
  • Carson Wentz
  • Alex Smith
  • Derek Carr
  • Andy Dalton
  • Cam Newton
  • Carson Palmer
  • Teddy Bridgewater
  • Tyrod Taylor
  • Jameis Winston
Oh, and Jared Goff.

 
CalBear said:
We're talking about a QB who hasn't managed to be a first-team Pro Bowl selection even once in his career.

To give you a sense of how pathetic that is, here's a sample of some of the other QBs who've made the Pro Bowl more recently than Stafford:

  • Kirk Cousins
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Mitch Trubisky
  • Carson Wentz
  • Alex Smith
  • Derek Carr
  • Andy Dalton
  • Cam Newton
  • Carson Palmer
  • Teddy Bridgewater
  • Tyrod Taylor
  • Jameis Winston
Oh, and Jared Goff.
Click to expand...
Seem like all these playoff teams who were offering 1st round plus offers to Detroit completely disagree with your assessment.  No QB you speak of is going to get a single offer of a first round pick, let alone a starter, two firsts and a third round pick.  By your logic, Goff should be a superior QB.  We will see.  

 
CalBear said:
We're talking about a QB who hasn't managed to be a first-team Pro Bowl selection even once in his career.

To give you a sense of how pathetic that is, here's a sample of some of the other QBs who've made the Pro Bowl more recently than Stafford:

  • Kirk Cousins
  • Ryan Tannehill
  • Mitch Trubisky
  • Carson Wentz
  • Alex Smith
  • Derek Carr
  • Andy Dalton
  • Cam Newton
  • Carson Palmer
  • Teddy Bridgewater
  • Tyrod Taylor
  • Jameis Winston
Oh, and Jared Goff.
Click to expand...
If we are rating QB's based on pro bowl appearaces, Brady only made 3.

 
Wilson
Stafford
Murray
Jimmy G

I'm a Stafford believer, what can I say? The arguments about Pro Bowls don't really hold much sway with me. I look at the All-Pro lists more than the Pro Bowl ones when it comes to evaluating talent by position. 

Stafford's ANY/A was much greater than Kyler Murray's this year and Stafford's career average for ANY/A is also much greater than Murray's career average. Right now, Stafford is the better QB, in my estimation, though Murray brings an athletic element to the table that Stafford doesn't, making it close.

 
FairWarning said:
If we are rating QB's based on pro bowl appearaces, Brady only made 3.
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Uh, Brady was selected to the Pro Bowl 14 times. 

The only time Stafford appeared was one of the times when Brady, and three other QBs, were selected and declined to play.

 
rockaction said:
Wilson
Stafford
Murray
Jimmy G

I'm a Stafford believer, what can I say? The arguments about Pro Bowls don't really hold much sway with me. I look at the All-Pro lists more than the Pro Bowl ones when it comes to evaluating talent by position. 

Stafford's ANY/A was much greater than Kyler Murray's this year and Stafford's career average for ANY/A is also much greater than Murray's career average. Right now, Stafford is the better QB, in my estimation, though Murray brings an athletic element to the table that Stafford doesn't, making it close.
Click to expand...
The argument about Stafford never being selected to a Pro Bowl is about where he ranks relative to other QBs. If you want to use ANY/A as your metric, Stafford has finished in the top 5 in that stat only once in his career (and it was #5, in 2019), and he currently ranks 15th among active QBs. Three spots below Jared Goff, actually.

 
CalBear said:
Uh, Brady was selected to the Pro Bowl 14 times. 

The only time Stafford appeared was one of the times when Brady, and three other QBs, were selected and declined to play.
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The only time Trubisky made it was the same circumstance.  IDK, maybe Stafford was asked after not originally being selected and turned them down also.

 
CalBear said:
The argument about Stafford never being selected to a Pro Bowl is about where he ranks relative to other QBs. If you want to use ANY/A as your metric, Stafford has finished in the top 5 in that stat only once in his career (and it was #5, in 2019), and he currently ranks 15th among active QBs. Three spots below Jared Goff, actually.
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I have a feeling I know your answer, but for the next two years only - if you're the Rams, would you rather have Stafford or Goff?  I'm talking about on the field only.

 
CalBear said:
The argument about Stafford never being selected to a Pro Bowl is about where he ranks relative to other QBs. If you want to use ANY/A as your metric, Stafford has finished in the top 5 in that stat only once in his career (and it was #5, in 2019), and he currently ranks 15th among active QBs. Three spots below Jared Goff, actually.
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And, of the QBs whose career ANY/A numbers are below Stafford's level, Stafford is almost the only one guaranteed a starting job in 2021. (The only other is Baker Mayfield, who's at 6.30 to Stafford's 6.32 ANY/A).

 
FairWarning said:
I have a feeling I know your answer, but for the next two years only - if you're the Rams, would you rather have Stafford or Goff?  I'm talking about on the field only.
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I'd certainly rather have Goff and a bunch of draft picks.

Straight-up, it's a harder call, but Goff has some upside that Stafford doesn't. He's not better than Stafford as of today.

 
CalBear said:
I'd certainly rather have Goff and a bunch of draft picks.

Straight-up, it's a harder call, but Goff has some upside that Stafford doesn't. He's not better than Stafford as of today.
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The problem with Goff and a bunch of picks is Goff can't quite reach the next level.  They have an elite D and need to win now, the window is shrinking by the day.  I've seen Goff three times against the Bears and was pretty average.  Now Stafford has had plenty of flaws, but he hasn't had near the team that Goff has had around him either.   It's going to be a great debate in how this plays out from both sides.

Hard to believe the Rams last 1st rounder is Goff.

 
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FairWarning said:
The problem with Goff and a bunch of picks is Goff can't quite reach the next level.  They have an elite D and need to win now, the window is shrinking by the day.  I've seen Goff three times against the Bears and was pretty average.  Now Stafford has had plenty of flaws, but he hasn't had near the team that Goff has had around him either.   It's going to be a great debate in how this plays out from both sides.

Hard to believe the Rams last 1st rounder is Goff.
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Stafford has had 13 years to reach the next level. We know what his level is.

As for "the team around him," Stafford had the best receiver in the league for most of his career, and some other solid pieces on offense as well.

 
I referenced this article below recently in the Stafford thread, it's  from a month ago wrote by Randy Mueller, who used to be a GM and I think won GM of the year once.  Based on his criteria of not being over 33 years old he had Stafford ranked as his #9 QB he'd choose to take over next 5 years if goal was to win championship.

Since Mueller eliminated Rodgers and Brady due to age on the surface putting Stafford at 9 is acceptable but he did not include Kyler in his top 10, nor did he include Lamar. Is he right or just trapped in old school mentality regarding dual threat QB's? I mean he has Tannehill over Kyler and Lamar. I truly wonder if that's crazy or if a lot GM's would agree? Either way GM's have been wrong in lock step unison before.  I don't expect people on a fantasy message board to see it the same way as Mueller does but and I have a hard time agreeing with him myself and yet I don't think it's a crazy take.

Also I was listening to a podcast by Mike Lombardi yesterday and he said he'd put Stafford between 10-14 and Goff between 16-22 fwiw, and since Muellers criteria eliminated Rodgers and Brady that's about in range with his #9 ranking but not sure were that would put him relative to Kyler, who I don't think Lombardi is very high on.

Here is article, and again just one guy's opinion: https://www.muellerfootball.com/post/top-10-qb-s-under-age-33

 
CalBear said:
I'd certainly rather have Goff and a bunch of draft picks.

Straight-up, it's a harder call, but Goff has some upside that Stafford doesn't. He's not better than Stafford as of today.
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Draft picks in 22 and 23 won't help you win now.  The Rams have their best window of opportunity to win now.  That is what they are doing.  If your goal is just to make the playoffs for the next five years, keep your picks.  If you want to really contend for a SB the next couple of years, upgrade your team now. 

 
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CalBear said:
Stafford has had 13 years to reach the next level. We know what his level is.

As for "the team around him," Stafford had the best receiver in the league for most of his career, and some other solid pieces on offense as well.
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Goff has had more weapons on any of his teams than Stafford has ever had.  Detroit has had one 1000-yard rusher in a decade.  Megatron last played in 2015.

 
FairWarning said:
Goff has had more weapons on any of his teams than Stafford has ever had.  Detroit has had one 1000-yard rusher in a decade.  Megatron last played in 2015.
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Golladay and Jones are at least on a par with Kupp and Woods. And Megatron+warm body is better than most receiving corps, and certainly better than what the Rams have right now. 

Stafford had more years with Megatron (7) than Goff has in the league to date. In 2012 he had Megatron and threw an NFL-record 727 passes and only managed 20 TDs (with 17 INTs).

 
FairWarning said:
Goff has had more weapons on any of his teams than Stafford has ever had.  Detroit has had one 1000-yard rusher in a decade.  Megatron last played in 2015.
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I think their pass catching weapons have been comparable but since Stafford entered the league the Lions RB's are dead last in rushing and trailing team 31 by 600 yards. So for sure Stafford's not been getting help by his running game, Goff on the other hand did and he needs it because his game is more predicated on play action.

 
menobrown said:
I think their pass catching weapons have been comparable but since Stafford entered the league the Lions RB's are dead last in rushing and trailing team 31 by 600 yards. So for sure Stafford's not been getting help by his running game, Goff on the other hand did and he needs it because his game is more predicated on play action.
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M Jones had a nice year, but Golliday missed most of it.  Their OL has been poor more often than not also.  

 
FairWarning said:
M Jones had a nice year, but Golliday missed most of it.  Their OL has been poor more often than not also.  
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I'm looking more big picture, not just last year with respect to weapons. More course of their career. 

And with regards to OL I think Goff might be upgrading.

 
FairWarning said:
M Jones had a nice year, but Golliday missed most of it.  Their OL has been poor more often than not also.  
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Detroit has given Stafford some good targets.  What it hasn't given him is a running game, an offensive line, and a decent defense.  Detroit has given up more points than any other team in the NFL the last few years.  No running game and no defense.  No quarternack ever has won under those conditions.  

 
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CalBear said:
The argument about Stafford never being selected to a Pro Bowl is about where he ranks relative to other QBs. If you want to use ANY/A as your metric, Stafford has finished in the top 5 in that stat only once in his career (and it was #5, in 2019), and he currently ranks 15th among active QBs. Three spots below Jared Goff, actually.
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Yeah but I was comparing him to Kyler Murray, not Goff. And Stafford has had some stinker teams while Goff has McVay calling plays and right in his earhole. Right now, in my opinion, Stafford is the better QB than both, and I don't think it's really close in Goff's case. 

 
jon_mx said:
People underestimate how bad the Lions organization is.  Stafford has had good targets to throw to.  But winning football requires good coach, good defense, good pass protection, and a good run game.  Detroit is near the bottom in all those.  Their coach staff has been a circus and generally has sucked.  They have had the least number of 100 yard rushers in the NFL for decades.  They are consistently a bottom 10 defense, last year was #30.   And Stafford has been running for his life and taking big hits his whole career.  It is great to have awesome receivers, but there is a ton more to football.  That is why you have 53 players on a team.  Winning is not about 1 or 2.
Click to expand...
Exactly.  All these people bashing Stafford are either clueless or haven't been paying attention.  As a lifelong MIN fan, I'm glad to see him gone.  Detroit will undoubtedly be worse without him, and the Rams will no doubt be better.  There isn't a tougher QB (maybe not a tougher player period) in the NFL.  I'm happy that he'll finally get a chance to play somewhere where he can actually stand a chance at winning something.  

 
jon_mx said:
Detroit has given Stafford some good targets.  What it hasn't given him is a running game, an offensive line, and a decent defense.  Detroit has given up more points than any other team in the NFL the last few years.  No running game and no defense.  No quarternack ever has won under those conditions.  
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Which is also why he had all those 4th quarter comebacks. 

 
I love Stafford. He's smart, tough, with an elite arm. You really can't ask for more. But somehow the Lions never won the NFC North, even with Stafford + Megatron. There were a couple of seasons in the past 10 where they should have won the division after being gifted historically soft schedules but couldn't do it. 

And as much as I do like Stafford, after all this time, I think he's just a slightly better version of Jay Cutler. And I am probably one of the few that liked Cutler too.

Code: 
G	QBrec	 Cmp%  TD%  Y/A	  Y/C   Rate
165	74-90-1	 62.6  4.5  7.2	  11.6  89.9 (Stafford)
153	74-79-0	 62.0  4.6  7.1   11.5  85.3 (Cutler)
 
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