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The Marjorie Taylor Greene Thread


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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Well, the road to serfdom for you and me.  You think AOC, Talib, omar are going to be giving up what THEY got?  No way. 

But that's how it's done in Socialism/Marxism/Communism.

What makes you think we're going to jump over the European and Scandanavian models right into a Marxist state?

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Say what you will about QAnon people, but between the polyamorous tantric sex guru and that shaman guy who stormed the capitol, these people live lives that are incredibly more interesting than mine. 

I object to this talk of Jewish Space Lasers when Death Stars of David is RIGHT THERE. 

Sadly, this is another one of those topics where it's hard to have an intelligent, adult conversation while staying within this forum's moderation policies.  We're not supposed to describe other peopl

Just now, Captain Cranks said:

What makes you think we're going to jump right over the European and Scandanavian models right into a Marxist state?

Oh, more of this false nonsense again?  They'll be the first ones to tell you they ain't Socialist.

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36 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Not in those exact words, but yeah.  that's the ultimate goal.

baby steps, my friend.  baby steps.  

respectfully, that is a ridiculous claim.  maybe read up on what communism/marxism actually means?

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Yep!  But apparently Democrats don't believe Marxists/Communists are crazy.  It's those other guys.

We've got the entire 20th century to show us how "not crazy" they were.

that's the problem

its actually a massively HUGE problem - the hypocrisy runs so deep in our Govt and now, there is no return

 

in 2024 if a GOP POTUS gets in , he/she will sign 75 EO's the first 2 weeks, and if/when GOP gains Congressional controls again, they'll oust those they don't like and ram through partisan policy like DEM's are now

 

that's never the way this was all meant to work :( 

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3 hours ago, Witz said:

And it continues...

Marjorie Taylor Greene 

@mtgreenee

I woke up early this morning literally laughing thinking about what a bunch of morons the Democrats (+11) are for giving some one like me free time. In this Democrat tyrannical government, Conservative Republicans have no say on committees anyway. Oh this is going to be fun!

7:59 AM · Feb 5, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

https://mobile.twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1357675098887577601

Sheesh, let it go, this was in the past. 

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20 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Oh, more of this false nonsense again?  They'll be the first ones to tell you they ain't Socialist.

They have implemented many of AOCs policies: single payer health care, heavily subsidized college, paid maternity leave, strong welfare system, etc. You are saying that the US will slide into socialism if they implement these policies but why haven't these other countries. You can disagree with their policies but to say it will turn the US into a Marxist state is a bit much. These policies exist in many non-socialist states around the world.

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This woman clearly feels no remorse and clearly still believes the exact same things.

"Sure, I'm sorry for saying all those things there were wrong and offensive."  Very definition of a non-apology apology.

Every direct question regarding a specific comment, her answer was "You should apologize to President Trump."

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4 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

This woman clearly feels no remorse and clearly still believes the exact same things.

"Sure, I'm sorry for saying all those things there were wrong and offensive."  Very definition of a non-apology apology.

Every direct question regarding a specific comment, her answer was "You should apologize to President Trump."

There are a ton of great contradictions in this presser.

"We must stop the hate" followed quickly by, "Here are all the horrible things the Democrats are doing."

"I don't see things along party lines" followed quickly by, "Why would those Republicans vote against one of their own."

Self-awareness is not her strong suit. 

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3 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:
35 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Oh, more of this false nonsense again?  They'll be the first ones to tell you they ain't Socialist.

What's false about it again?  You think they are Marxist?  

And if you asked them the question, would you like to see the US look more like USSR, Venezuela, or Sweden, what do you think they would say?

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5 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

There are a ton of great contradictions in this presser.

"We must stop the hate" followed quickly by, "Here are all the horrible things the Democrats are doing."

"I don't see things along party lines" followed quickly by, "Why would those Republicans vote against one of their own."

Self-awareness is not her strong suit. 

Let's not forget about "my district was stripped of its voice on those committees" followed by (paraphrased) "Democrats are so tyrannical my presence wouldn't matter".

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1 hour ago, tymarsas said:

They have implemented many of AOCs policies: single payer health care, heavily subsidized college, paid maternity leave, strong welfare system, etc. You are saying that the US will slide into socialism if they implement these policies but why haven't these other countries. You can disagree with their policies but to say it will turn the US into a Marxist state is a bit much. These policies exist in many non-socialist states around the world.

This road to serfdom sounds pretty good, actually.

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2 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

Not in those exact words, but yeah.  that's the ultimate goal.

baby steps, my friend.  baby steps.  

I’m starting to think this sort of argument is one of the great flaws in our thinking regarding extremism from either the right or the left.

There are no “baby steps” to Communism. You can’t get there from Democratic socialism, which AOC espouses, or even straight up socialism. The only Communist regimes the world has ever known were achieved by violent Revolution. 
There also no “baby steps” to Fascism. You can’t get there from conservative policies no matter how extreme. The only fascist regimes the world has ever known were achieved by the takeover of government by an openly Fascist political party which made no attempt to hide its agenda. 
Dictatorship is not and has never been the result of a slippery slope. 

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32 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Dictatorship is not and has never been the result of a slippery slope. 

This is only from a policy point of view, right? It's pretty obvious that there are conditions of thought and circumstance that pave the way for communism and fascism to occur in increasing steps. Economic stagnation or difficulty or even famine-level hardship and social and intellectual rot being chief among those conditions. You know that. It's also pretty clear that there are no socialist states and that those proclaiming a socialist state are always headed by dictators that strafe the nation of its resources, wind up rich beyond all means, and act simply as strongmen. There is no example of a democratic socialist government and there never will be. They all wind up as dictatorships, and not of even the communist variety. The lip service might be paid to the proletariat, but it is in the hands of the strongman despite the rhetoric of being for the people/worker.

But the slippery slope thing. Policy reflects a mode of action, a mood of thought. Policy doesn't always lead to normative results, sometimes the normative results of policy are informed by a public's mood or temperament or preference.

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10 minutes ago, rockaction said:

There is no example of a democratic socialist government and there never will be.

Didn't François Hollande precede Macron?  He was the head of the Socialist Party (PS) in France and became President of France.  As such, he wasn't much of a strongman.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Didn't François Hollande precede Macron?  He was the head of the Socialist Party (PS) in France and became President of France.  As such, he wasn't much of a strongman.

Pardon me. Not a democratic socialist structure. France was still capitalist because it hadn't controlled the means of production, nor were wages paid by the state, nor prices set by a central board.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Pardon me. Not a democratic socialist structure. France was still capitalist because it hadn't controlled the means of production, nor were wages paid by the state, nor prices set by a central board.

Oh, OK.

How about we try to elect some Social Democrats to power and see how it goes?  You agree that they are unlikely to end capitalism, right?  Just like Hollande didn't end it in France.

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If we, say, argue that Donald Trump was a neo-fascist (say we do) then we can admit that the predilection of the leaders of a country might not reflect what sort of political system is in place nor will be in place once they leave.

It does complicate things that Hollande was a member of the socialist party for my point, but France itself is not socialist and has never really been so. I'm talking about a democratic socialist form of government, not Bernie Sanders running the United States for four years.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Oh, OK.

How about we try to elect some Social Democrats to power and see how it goes?  You agree that they are unlikely to end capitalism, right?  Just like Hollande didn't end it in France.

I'm not arguing the cause one way or the other against social democracy. I chimed in about democratic socialists. Big difference.

Social Democrats still act within the sphere of capitalism. Democratic socialists presumably would try and steer capitalistic countries towards where the body politic and not markets determine and have a heavier involvement in production, wages, and prices.

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I'm pretty sure people are ascribing premises to me that I don't have. I was solely answering Tim's post, not getting involved in the Blade Runner debate about Sweden. 

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Just now, rockaction said:

I'm pretty sure people are ascribing premises to me that I don't have. I was solely answering Tim's post, not getting involved in the Blade Runner debate about Sweden. 

That's true.  You are certainly not @BladeRunner.  I just took issue with your statements about socialists never coming to power without pillaging the country.  

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

That's true.  You are certainly not @BladeRunner.  I just took issue with your statements about socialists never coming to power without pillaging the country.  

Without getting contentious, I did not make that assertion. I said that there has never been a "democratic socialist form of government" not that a socialist had never assumed power in a capitalist system. Those are two very separate things. I'm not even backtracking because there are examples throughout history of politicians belonging to a party that defines itself by a differing system than what the country is, often without totally transforming their governments. Some capitalists might be considered by most to be nationalist fascists, but also preside over capitalist systems that remain changed but remarkably constant than when they left. Trump is likely the closest example of this we have had in America. Lincoln was a dictator for a time only to sheperd us back to democracy. Things are fluid that way.

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33 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Oh, OK.

How about we try to elect some Social Democrats to power and see how it goes?  You agree that they are unlikely to end capitalism, right?  Just like Hollande didn't end it in France.

There is no such thing as a "Democratic Socialist".  It's a made-up term to fool everyone into thinking you aren't voting for a Socialist.  

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If this was intended to be some sort of apology, it fails miserably :(

“McCarthy claims he has received private assurances from Greene that she no longer wishes death on Pelosi.“ - Washington Post

https://theintellectualist.com/2021/02/05/mccarthy-greene-promised-me-she-wouldnt-wish-death-on-pelosi-anymore/?utm_source=ALE&utm_medium=ALE&utm_campaign=ALE&utm_term=ALE&utm_content=ALE

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14 minutes ago, squistion said:

If this was intended to be some sort of apology, it fails miserably :(

“McCarthy claims he has received private assurances from Greene that she no longer wishes death on Pelosi.“ - Washington Post

https://theintellectualist.com/2021/02/05/mccarthy-greene-promised-me-she-wouldnt-wish-death-on-pelosi-anymore/?utm_source=ALE&utm_medium=ALE&utm_campaign=ALE&utm_term=ALE&utm_content=ALE

I'm not saying it was a fatwa...

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56 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

There is no such thing as a "Democratic Socialist".  It's a made-up term to fool everyone into thinking you aren't voting for a Socialist.  

All terms are made-up. :mellow:

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On 2/3/2021 at 10:27 PM, timschochet said:

It was a secret vote. They didn’t want to get anyone mad at them. Really courageous bunch. 
And there was no vote on Marjorie Taylor Greene. Though the Democrats will force them to do so tomorrow. 

 

VIDEO: Free state of jones - voting scene. democrat voter fraud •Dec 30, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMPxVNIPcyU

 

VIDEO: Newton Knight, the Republican who Established the Free State of Jones •Nov 10, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVIuPQjezVY

 

******

The Democratic Party has no reason to to try to claim they own the moral high ground when it comes to repugnant behavior. Republicans also have no claim here, there is blood on their hands as well.

MTG is not representative of every single last Republican on the face of the planet. Neither is Maxine Waters representative of every Democrat. You apparently can live with the latter, when it impacts the malls you manage, but not the former.

 

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3 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

Uhm....okay?  But there is no such thing as a Democratic Socialist. :shrug:

How do come to these conclusions? There are millions of people throughout the world that fall neatly into that category

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5 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

How do come to these conclusions? There are millions of people throughout the world that fall neatly into that category

And so label themselves, which is interesting if indeed there is no such thing as a Democratic Socialist, which Mr. Runner thinks is some sort of euphemism. 

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40 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

How do come to these conclusions? There are millions of people throughout the world that fall neatly into that category

Negative.  How do you come to that?

All the Democratic socialists is a socialist with the word Democrat in front of his name.  It means nothing. Socialist is what you are.

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2 hours ago, DaVinci said:

That's Blade Runner's point. That the meaning of "democratic socialist" is inherently problematic because a democratic socialist is an oxymoron, not a paradox.

I get what he's saying. It's easy to get what he's saying. He's making a truth judgment of the stated position itself. You guys are just gaslighting him, however much I disagree with his stances.

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6 hours ago, rockaction said:

That's Blade Runner's point. That the meaning of "democratic socialist" is inherently problematic because a democratic socialist is an oxymoron, not a paradox.

I get what he's saying. It's easy to get what he's saying. He's making a truth judgment of the stated position itself. You guys are just gaslighting him, however much I disagree with his stances.

Except he’s spouting nonsense, and so are you. You can take tenets from disparate philosophy and create a hybrid.

 Bluegrass and rap? GTFO.

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Just now, DaVinci said:

Except he’s spouting nonsense, and so are you. You can take tenets from disparate philosophy and create a hybrid.

 Bluegrass and rap? GTFO.

I'm espousing none such nonsense. When the means of production are controlled by the state, prices set by the state, and wages set by the state, it inevitably turns into a dictatorship for all of recorded human history, whether it be a monarch or a fascist. How is one supposed to be democratic about the absence of markets? What, do the people vote on each individual decision about pricing and wages and levels of production. Or do the people vote to turn it over to a board? Really, how does it work? He's saying there's no such thing as democratic socialism because throughout all of history, socialist forms of government are dictatorships. There's really never been an example of a democratic socialism.

His point, however wrong about Sweden and social democracy, stands with respect to democratic socialism. We have the weight of history on our side. Each cotton pickin' example is always headed by some form of strongman. You have...an idea?

Good luck.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

I'm espousing none such nonsense. When the means of production are controlled by the state, prices set by the state, and wages set by the state, it inevitably turns into a dictatorship for all of recorded human history, whether it be a monarch or a fascist. How is one supposed to be democratic about the absence of markets? What, do the people vote on each individual decision about pricing and wages and levels of production. Or do the people vote to turn it over to a board? Really, how does it work? He's saying there's no such thing as democratic socialism because throughout all of history, socialist forms of government are dictatorships. There's really never been an example of a democratic socialism.

His point, however wrong about Sweden and social democracy, stands with respect to democratic socialism. We have the weight of history on our side. Each cotton pickin' example is always headed by some form of strongman. You have...an idea?

Good luck.

So you are defending Blade Runner's point now?

The slippery slope argument is not a good one.  If you want to play semantic games about democratic socialism vs. social democracy, go ahead.  

We have countless examples of socialists from socialist parties getting elected to lead counties, form governments, etc. Those countries have not fallen into dictatorships.  Those self-professed socialists weren't strongmen/women.  Democratic norms weren't destroyed. 

You can beat up your strawman about Stalin, Mao, Chávez all you want.  It doesn't change the facts I outlined above. We should not be scared of ideas that may benefit all members of society and in particular those without means.  I think the current system is far too weighted to those with immense wealth.  If that means a slightly slower economic growth so people aren't left behind or class mobility for the poor actually exists, then so be it. 

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The idea that Democratic Socialists don't exist is beyond stupid.

Any group of people can get together, write down a collection of beliefs, and then slap a name on them.  For example, my new political brand/label believes in the following:

- Southern Rock is a better form of music than Disco
- Texas style BBQ is better than Carolina style
- Stick shift is better than automatic

Due to the founders of this party being located in the northern part of the country, we will call our party the Southern Northerners.  This party exists.  Members of the party exist.  It is beyond stupid to claim there's no such thing as Southern Northerners simply because you disagree with the beliefs espoused or because the name we have chosen is an oxymoron.

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5 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

So you are defending Blade Runner's point now?

No. Not at all. I said he was wrong about Sweden and the slippery slope argument. What he's saying is there is no such thing as a democratic socialist because it's an oxymoron by the inevitable result of that system. That I agree with.

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Just now, Rich Conway said:

The idea that Democratic Socialists don't exist is beyond stupid.

Any group of people can get together, write down a collection of beliefs, and then slap a name on them.  For example, my new political brand/label believes in the following:

- Southern Rock is a better form of music than Disco
- Texas style BBQ is better than Carolina style
- Stick shift is better than automatic

Due to the founders of this party being located in the northern part of the country, we will call our party the Southern Northerners.  This party exists.  Members of the party exist.  It is beyond stupid to claim there's no such thing as Southern Northerners simply because you disagree with the beliefs espoused or because the name we have chosen is an oxymoron.

That's really a linguistic concern you're addressing. He's talking about the practicality and definitional soundness of it. It's like anarcho-communists or anarcho-socialists. Just a contradictory concept.

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