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Caring for our elderly parents (1 Viewer)

Hooper31

Hooper31

Footballguy
Guessing three's a lot of us entering into this realm. I looked, but couldn't find a thread already. If there is one, please hit me with the HONDA emoji and I'll participate in the existing thread. 

My situation:

  • Mom is 81 years old and starting to enter into the phase where she won't be able to care for herself. Has still been driving and had a large degree of independence. Has been renting a room from a friend. Lives about 45 minutes away from me in Anacortes, WA. It's a small town on the Puget Sound with a largely retired community. She loves it there. Lots of friends in the area. 
  • We hit a new phase suddenly this past week when she fell down some stairs. Broke two toes and a hip. Can barely get up. Trouble caring for herself in ways I can't imagine. 
  • The hospital she was in tried to get her out the door as fast as humanly possible. She failed a cognitive test in the worst ways, and then a nurse tried to explain her medication procedures in the next few weeks. Watching the disconnect there between the two hospital employees was awful. 
  • Her income is just under $2000 a month from postal employee retirement. Recently packed away $50,000 into a CD for three years. Has a car and little to no other assets. Expenditures has been $600 a month rent and maintaining the car.
  • I'm learning a lot about Medicare A (she has this), Medicare B (no dice), and the possibilities of Medicaid. 
Not looking for immediate advice, but I know I will be having questions in the very near future. As I learn things I will share. If others have some specific advice going forward I'm all ears. 

 
We have had to go through this with my grandmother in law and great aunt.  Both had dementia.  

Great aunt had money socked away and they bled her dry...$0 left when she passed.  We had to get medicaid involved near the end and it was a nightmare proving she had nothing.  Luckily she had purchased 2 payable upon death cds in our name with instructions to pay final expenses and use the rest for our kids school.

The grandmother in law was hell. She literally had nothing but mother in law and brother in law had her as cosigner on there cars plus we had "sold" the great aunts car to her years prior so medicaid viewed them as her assets (only allowed 1 car). We had to refinance 1 car to get her name off then I had to purchase the car we gave her at fair market value (about 1000).  So I bought a car that was given to us free.  

Then the house... ugh.  When my wife's grandfather died an attorney convinced granny to put her name, my mil name and all 3 grandkids on the deed.  That was a paperwork nightmare to prove she didn't own the house free and clear.  When she passed it was another nightmare to get everyone to agree to sell and what portion they get.  All while none of them did anything at all regarding care, visits, help....nothing.

My dad is 75 and mind slipping a bit (leaving the car running in the driveway after work type stuff).  He has done nothing to prepare for future care so it will fall on me again even though my sister lives with him.  

My point is, with all of the red tape and high costs of everything, I've learned that after my grandparents generation, folks have not done near enough to prepare for elder care, myself included.  Seems lot the older generations knew to pre pay for funerals, caskets, etc and coming up soon for some of us, our parents are woefully underprepared.

 
As for the emotional side.... I hate to say, it sucks.  The day you realize they can't recognize you is hard.  You have to start thinking that just bring a short smile to their face is a great day.  Playing music that brings back a memory is awesome.  Playing go fish and her rembering playing when you were younger is great.  My wife has a video saved on her phone just laying in bed with her granny and they are going through names to see if she can remember any (she kept calling my wife her mom's name) and she remembered my wife's name. It was very emotional in a happy cry kind of way.

Our older folks deserve better but costs have gotten so ridiculously out of hand that it's hard to find decent care.  If you have to put her in a home, do not be afraid to go straight to the patient advocate or head nurse and don't be scared to change facilities if you have to (just watch out for the non refundable deposit rules).  

Sorry you may be traveling these waters sooner rather than later.

 
Sorry for hippling but realize there is a 7 year "look back" period.  Medicaid will go back 7 years to see if anyone gave away assets that could've been used to pay for care.

The other big thing is medicaid makes you use assets like their house as collateral with the understanding you will sell the house to cover medical expenses they paid for.  It's a scare tactic.  If the estate has 0 and the house isn't great, they aren't going to come after it.  And the big one is, they can't come after you for payment.  They will try though.

 
I lost my mom in 2015 due to cancer. She was suffering from Alzheimer's.  Dad went two years later.

It was a very difficult last few years, as I was the primary caregiver. My only sibling was not much help, living 1000 miles away. This continued through the settling of the estate.  I did all the work when they were both alive and I handled all of the affairs afterward. It caused some strains in our relationship. Beware.

I would be happy to help anyone who is going through this.  There is a lot to navigate. 

 
worrierking said:
I lost my mom in 2015 due to cancer. She was suffering from Alzheimer's.  Dad went two years later.

It was a very difficult last few years, as I was the primary caregiver. My only sibling was not much help, living 1000 miles away. This continued through the settling of the estate.  I did all the work when they were both alive and I handled all of the affairs afterward. It caused some strains in our relationship. Beware.

I would be happy to help anyone who is going through this.  There is a lot to navigate. 
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Sorry to hear. 
 

You are so right. There’s always something that pops up. Always thought a consulting business helping those left to handle loved ones affairs would be a rewarding experience. I know I wish I had someone helping guide me through this process, let alone the feeling of loss and emotional stuff that never seems to go away.

 
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Reactions: Ned
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Sorry to hear. 
 

You are so right. There’s always something that pops up. Always thought a consulting business helping those left to handle loved ones affairs would be a rewarding experience. I know I wish I had someone helping guide me through this process, let alone the feeling of loss and emotional stuff that never seems to go away.
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I do have to say both my folks were very fortunate to pass at home in their own beds. This really was a peaceful time for all involved. Hospice is a wonderful organization. We contributed a nice chunk of change to them for my Dads memory through his estate and plan to do so for my Moms estate as well.

 
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Sorry to hear. 
 

You are so right. There’s always something that pops up. Always thought a consulting business helping those left to handle loved ones affairs would be a rewarding experience. I know I wish I had someone helping guide me through this process, let alone the feeling of loss and emotional stuff that never seems to go away.
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It would be a great business venture.  

I have been a caregiver for 10+ years now.  I am mentally spent half the time.  Every day I get up at 3:30 to put meds out, get things done while mom is sleeping (dementia), then go to work,  Most days I am sleeping by 8PM.  

 
Just been through all this.  I lived about an hour door to door from my parents.  The situation was exacerbated by the fact I'm an only child, so as far as family I was pretty much it.  My dad was almost 10 years older than my mom and she was his primary caregiver.  He did well until breaking his hip in Dec 2010 at the age of 88.  My mom had several battles with cancer before being diagnosed with terminal cancer in 2018. By this point my dad was 96 and my mom was 87.  They wanted more than anything to stay in their home.  During the time my dad broke his hip in Dec. '10 my mom was coming off a cancer battle and surgery so I went to visit my dad at the rehab facility every night.  They only had a semi-private room and his roommate wasn't in his right mind.  I went every day just to give him someone to talk to and keep his mind sharp.  He was miserable, leaving him there every night was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.  

As my mom went downhill it got to where they had to have more and more help.  We started out with someone coming in a couple days a week to clean house, cook a bit for them etc. on top of their long term once a week housekeeper.  As time went on this lady came in more and more. Probably early 2019, my mom realized she needed more permanent help as her condition kept worsening.  We found a group of ladies who had been staying with another local elderly lady who had cancer.  She had just recently passed away and we were fortunate this same group was willing to help as caregivers.  It was a group of three women who basically one lived with them 24 hours a day.  They had their own bedroom and they did all the shopping, cooking, cleaning, helped bathing.  Now we still had a hospice nurse coming by for my mom but that was just a little additional support.  They supplanted the old housekeeper and lady who came a few days a week.

It was agreed to with them when they came that when one of my parents died, they would stay on for the second.  They even agreed to work for 2/3 the original per hour rate due to less work to do.  We were more than fortunate with that.

My mom passed away just after Christmas in 2019.  In fact, I got the call it was just a matter of time Christmas night and drove down there.  My dad never really truly did recover after that but the ladies who stayed there were wonderful to him.  With Covid it made it to where he hardly had any visits other than me and his mental state deteriorated.  He passed away late November of this past year.

All that to say is that it's an extremely taxing process mentally, emotionally, and financially.  All that and we were fortunate to find great caregivers.  I was a CPA, financial background, all that good stuff, and I'm still dealing with the estate.  I'm an only child, it's a rural county, pretty easy to get the legalities handled there but just the accounts, taxes, 1099's, selling the house, insurance, combined with Covid and mail delays during this time has made it even harder.  I agree with the earlier comment it would be a great business venture to start a company who could help in these situations.  Even as simple as my situation being the only heir is, it's an arduous process. 

I don't know that I'm an expert by any means but will be glad to provide any info I may have or could have learned along the way.

 
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Sorry to hear. 
 

You are so right. There’s always something that pops up. Always thought a consulting business helping those left to handle loved ones affairs would be a rewarding experience. I know I wish I had someone helping guide me through this process, let alone the feeling of loss and emotional stuff that never seems to go away.
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They do exist.  We had someone help us get started, pointing us to an eldercare attorney and also someone who understood the Assisted Living/Alzheimer's residency side of things.  It was crazy valuable.  I'd strongly recommend to anyone who can afford even an hour or two of the fees to start there.  At the end of 90 minutes we felt like we at least had some idea of the roadmap in front of us and we managed to just barely stay ahead of events as they unfolded over the next 18 months.  Lots of sleepless nights, but we were never caught completely off guard.

We were lucky in the end that the courts granted us guardianship and also that she had enough money put away to get things started cleanly.

If you have siblings, you should definitely get them involved ASAP too.  Even if they're remote there's so much paperwork, phone calls, reading and etc that there's plenty they'll be able to help with.

 
Hooper31 said:
she fell down some stairs. Broke two toes and a hip. Can barely get up. Trouble caring for herself in ways I can't imagine.
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Don't even think about moving her from Anacortes.

She can't be living in a place where she's using stairs.

You can imagine and you know she needs help.  

Hooper31 said:
The hospital she was in tried to get her out the door as fast as humanly possible. She failed a cognitive test in the worst ways, and then a nurse tried to explain her medication procedures in the next few weeks. Watching the disconnect there between the two hospital employees was awful. 
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Hospitals should only be used for emergency situations, expect DMV-type service with minimal connection to patient.

First, get up to speed on the meds, learn everything possible.  Each person has different tolerance levels so learn as much as possible and then see where you might be able to dial back on meds that aren't absolutely necessary.  Disconnect is expected in any fast foot type of medical interaction.  You have to get involved personally and you can't do it half-azzed. 

Soon as the weather turns nice begin getting her outside, my suggestion is walks.  Elderly get least amount of exposure to sunlight of people on the planet and in the NW you get less than most.  Outside, social distance, no-mask, fresh air, sunshine, nature, best thing and it will create a bond.  Wheelchair if needed.

Recap.

Get up to speed on meds, get to minimum ASAP.

No stairs, make sure home environment is set up for easy access to bathroom-shower, bed, cooking/feeding.  

You don't realize it but you have been given a gift.  Don't pass it off on others or try to get out of it.

 
SpurrierisisGod said:
Sorry for hippling but realize there is a 7 year "look back" period.  Medicaid will go back 7 years to see if anyone gave away assets that could've been used to pay for care.

The other big thing is medicaid makes you use assets like their house as collateral with the understanding you will sell the house to cover medical expenses they paid for.  It's a scare tactic.  If the estate has 0 and the house isn't great, they aren't going to come after it.  And the big one is, they can't come after you for payment.  They will try though.
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I believe this is state specific and almost all are 5 years. Talk to a local authority and start legal financial moves asap.

My mom lived so frugally to leave something for her children but also didn't want to lose control. Once she had her stroke it was too late to protect her assets and her desire to help her children and grandchildren eventually went poof.

Good luck!

 
me 96yo Ma passed this summer, so it's me and me 95yo Da. never got along w either of em, but i was in diminished circumstances (health-forced retirement) when my mother took ill, so i moved in with them to make her last months comfortable. that was 7 yrs ago. be careful what you promise...

my experience is that senility makes people more sure they're right than less. winning those fights should be your last tactic, cuz it will wear you out. no one can push one's buttons like those who installed them. if you want an elder to do something, get them to think it was their idea. say "i read this in a magazine" or whatever. lose the fight, win the war.

50K should be easy to protect a good portion of, if your Ma trusts her kids. not my area of expertise. speaking of expertise, our local Council on Aging has been a godsend as far as advice & referrals. check that out.

caring for elderly parents should be noble & rewarding work. it ain't. pretty much the opposite. it just so happens, it's the 2nd best thing we do is all. GL -

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
They do exist.  We had someone help us get started, pointing us to an eldercare attorney and also someone who understood the Assisted Living/Alzheimer's residency side of things.  It was crazy valuable.  I'd strongly recommend to anyone who can afford even an hour or two of the fees to start there.  At the end of 90 minutes we felt like we at least had some idea of the roadmap in front of us and we managed to just barely stay ahead of events as they unfolded over the next 18 months.  Lots of sleepless nights, but we were never caught completely off guard.

We were lucky in the end that the courts granted us guardianship and also that she had enough money put away to get things started cleanly.

If you have siblings, you should definitely get them involved ASAP too.  Even if they're remote there's so much paperwork, phone calls, reading and etc that there's plenty they'll be able to help with.
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Do you have a name or something I can google to find something similar in my area?  I'm probably a ways off with my mom only being 72 and in pretty good shape, but I'd rather at least know where i would start now.   My mom is as stubborn as they come, hates change and is terrified of getting old and dying so this should be a real hoot.   

 
NutterButter said:
Do you have a name or something I can google to find something similar in my area?  I'm probably a ways off with my mom only being 72 and in pretty good shape, but I'd rather at least know where i would start now.   My mom is as stubborn as they come, hates change and is terrified of getting old and dying so this should be a real hoot.   
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We first contacted someone at caringconsiderations.com.  The woman there met with us once and pointed us to a dementia-specific consultant who helped us the rest of the way.  CC.com seems to be local though, but you could probably get a lead or two off the website that would point you in a good direction (or even ask for a referral to your area).

 
Hooper31 said:
Guessing three's a lot of us entering into this realm. I looked, but couldn't find a thread already. If there is one, please hit me with the HONDA emoji and I'll participate in the existing thread. 

My situation:

  • Mom is 81 years old and starting to enter into the phase where she won't be able to care for herself. Has still been driving and had a large degree of independence. Has been renting a room from a friend. Lives about 45 minutes away from me in Anacortes, WA. It's a small town on the Puget Sound with a largely retired community. She loves it there. Lots of friends in the area. 
  • We hit a new phase suddenly this past week when she fell down some stairs. Broke two toes and a hip. Can barely get up. Trouble caring for herself in ways I can't imagine. 
  • The hospital she was in tried to get her out the door as fast as humanly possible. She failed a cognitive test in the worst ways, and then a nurse tried to explain her medication procedures in the next few weeks. Watching the disconnect there between the two hospital employees was awful. 
  • Her income is just under $2000 a month from postal employee retirement. Recently packed away $50,000 into a CD for three years. Has a car and little to no other assets. Expenditures has been $600 a month rent and maintaining the car.
  • I'm learning a lot about Medicare A (she has this), Medicare B (no dice), and the possibilities of Medicaid. 
Not looking for immediate advice, but I know I will be having questions in the very near future. As I learn things I will share. If others have some specific advice going forward I'm all ears. 
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i lived your situation for several years, dealing with my mom.  this really requires a post too lengthy for here, but 1st, your mom gets a pension, how about SSI?  almost everyone needs A & B & D.  many people get a medigap type plan.  why is an 81 yr old with limited means tying up 50m in a 3 yr CD?  Based on income, she likely won’t qualify for medicaid assistance.  over 65 i think is medicare first, then you might qualify for medicaid assistance to pay premiums if your income is low enough. this is state specific, but 2m a month will be too high IMO.  so, research a medigap supplemental plan, get her CD money out of a CD and have a direct conversation with her about long term goals.  you need to be forceful and direct.  what are your plans?  what can you/we afford?  are there other transport options?  etc etc etc etc.  sorry if this post is abrupt, but asking questions and getting answers might help you more going forward.

 
worrierking said:
I lost my mom in 2015 due to cancer. She was suffering from Alzheimer's.  Dad went two years later.

It was a very difficult last few years, as I was the primary caregiver. My only sibling was not much help, living 1000 miles away. This continued through the settling of the estate.  I did all the work when they were both alive and I handled all of the affairs afterward. It caused some strains in our relationship. Beware.

I would be happy to help anyone who is going through this.  There is a lot to navigate. 
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i was lucky, in that i am an only child.  but trying to get my mom to have a real conversation was maddening.  but every family member will have their own opinion and it almost never works out.  there should always be 1 decider, so to speak in these situations.  invariably, if there are assets around, you will all hate each other in short order.

 
All of our parents died between 9/2015 and 2/2019.  We had very different experiences for each.  My dad went into the hospital and seemed fine.  Then they couldn't stabilize his blood pressure and he died four days later.  It was sudden, but he didn't suffer at all.  There was no loss of dignity at all, so I was okay with how that happened.  That left my mom with Alzheimer's to take care of.  I found an excellent home for her.  I had to become her legal guardian.  That is no fun at all.  Fortunately, Dad had planned carefully and we had the bucks.

My FIL (in his nineties) got sick a few times.  I think he really just wanted to die, but my MIL wouldn't let him.  If you get to this point, you might want to give permission for someone to go.  Just a reassurance that you will be fine might be enough.  I think he suffered unnecessarily.  When we got home from his funeral, we got a call that Mom had been started on hospice care.  She died a few days later.  Hospice hepled both these times.  Lovely people.  My MIL died a year later.   Put together with several other deaths in this time period put us in a sort of mental fog for a few years.  This is hard to describe, but it was like being juuuust a step behind.

The advice I have is to prepare wills, powers of attorney, and living wills if you still can.  With a PoA, you don't have to go through the guardianship process.  This is a game-changer.

Per someone else above, don't put the house in other people's names.  Ugh.  A legal and logistical nightmare.  My MIL wanted to do this.  A hard pass for so many reasons.

Protecting assets is a different matter.  The five year lookback comes into play.  My dad did this by putting me as his heir to the IRA.  (I'm an only child.)  The laws were changed to make this less useful.  He knew I would spend the money on Mom if I had to, but it was untouchable by the lookback.

Good luck.  We're pulling for you.  Hope your mom feels better.

 
Going thru this with my mom now.  My dad passed in 2005 at 76.  He was stubborn and had slipped on the ice and fell against the open tailgate of his truck.  He's old german farmer, you don't go to the dr unless you cut off a limb...anyhow he had internal bleeding that went undetected and died in his sleep.  A blessing as we look back...Anyhow mom was 10 years younger than him.  She's lived a good life, many times I asked her if there was anything she wanted to see or do and she would always say no :(.  I have 2 sisters and a brother, we all have decent jobs and don't need anyone's money, so mentioned many times she should spend it, she earned it....anyhow you know how they are.  In late 2019 mom had bleeding she didn't tell anyone about as she didn't want to ruin our holidays :(, she finally mentioned something to my sister and she immediately got her to a dr.  Find out she has cervical cancer.  Doesn't sound good (she's 81 at this time). Dr's recommend radiation treatment so we go thru the process.  This actually goes surprisingly good, and in spring she is given a relatively clean bill of health.  We tell her you need to tell us ASAP when something like this happens...anyhow summer goes great.  She's up and about doing all her normal activities.  Fall comes and she's more tired than usual.  Come to find out she had more bleeding and didn't tell anyone again, ugh.  Now she has has bleeding ulcers from the radiation and they also find she has stage 4 cancer.  They want to try chemo even though a year ago they said they wouldn't recommend that at her age, why now??  Anyhow my nephew is getting married New Years eve and she wants to see her grandson get married.  We put the chemo off 3 weeks so she isn't sick for the wedding, right after we start treatments.  Now we need help with her care so we find a assisted living home.  Treatments go for one cycle and then I take her for a dr visit.  The visit turns into a mess as she has a cough, so now they want to get COVID test.  At the same time while we are there her blood pressure drops and they don't want me taking her back to the facility.  They transport to hospital to get fluids and a blood transfussion.  The dr calls us and says her COVID test is positive and also they don't believe anymore treatments should be done with her condition (she has lost a bunch of weight an is down to 100lbs).  With COVID rules we can't see her, they are now recommending she move to hospice care.  We call the facility we had put her in and they let us know they allow visitors for hospice tenents. She is now in hospice and each of us kids spend the day with her and then we hand off for night.  This really sucks seeing an independent, hard working women waste away and rely on others.  She doesn't complain at all, always says she's not in pain but we can tell she is.  Finally was able to have the hospice nurse talk her into a prescription for pain meds.  Don't know what the next day brings, but try to spend time with her and keep things positive.  Really surprised she is still with us, it's been since the beginning of February that she has been in Hospice care.  Sorry for the long post, it's my day with her and I'm sitting here watching her favorite soap opera so felt like a good time to share when I saw this post.  Take care of your parents and spend time with them when you can still enjoy each others company, you think you have spent plenty of time with them but when the time comes you just want more.  This sucks...

 
A blessing is my siblings and I all get along, so that makes things easier.  The hardest part is my brother is single and quiet person.  He spent a lot of time with my mom, taking her with him when he would run errands, always stopping at her house after work,etc.  He's alot like my dad and it's terrible seeing him suffer without anyone to confide in (he's not going to admit to us that he's sad, although we see him tear up more than we would like to).  ugh again this sucks....

My wife is a only child, I've had discussions this last week with them that they need to get their finances in order (they are mid 70s).  I'm glad I have siblings to help with my mom, dreading the day it's just me and my wife taking care of her parents.

 
yak651 said:
A blessing is my siblings and I all get along, so that makes things easier.  The hardest part is my brother is single and quiet person.  He spent a lot of time with my mom, taking her with him when he would run errands, always stopping at her house after work,etc.  He's alot like my dad and it's terrible seeing him suffer without anyone to confide in (he's not going to admit to us that he's sad, although we see him tear up more than we would like to).  ugh again this sucks....

My wife is a only child, I've had discussions this last week with them that they need to get their finances in order (they are mid 70s).  I'm glad I have siblings to help with my mom, dreading the day it's just me and my wife taking care of her parents.
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Maybe just sitting with him and watching TV or something would be enough.  I'm sorry you are going through all this.  It really does suck.

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
All of our parents died between 9/2015 and 2/2019.  We had very different experiences for each.  My dad went into the hospital and seemed fine.  Then they couldn't stabilize his blood pressure and he died four days later.  It was sudden, but he didn't suffer at all.  There was no loss of dignity at all, so I was okay with how that happened.  That left my mom with Alzheimer's to take care of.  I found an excellent home for her.  I had to become her legal guardian.  That is no fun at all.  Fortunately, Dad had planned carefully and we had the bucks.

My FIL (in his nineties) got sick a few times.  I think he really just wanted to die, but my MIL wouldn't let him.  If you get to this point, you might want to give permission for someone to go.  Just a reassurance that you will be fine might be enough.  I think he suffered unnecessarily.  When we got home from his funeral, we got a call that Mom had been started on hospice care.  She died a few days later.  Hospice hepled both these times.  Lovely people.  My MIL died a year later.   Put together with several other deaths in this time period put us in a sort of mental fog for a few years.  This is hard to describe, but it was like being juuuust a step behind.

The advice I have is to prepare wills, powers of attorney, and living wills if you still can.  With a PoA, you don't have to go through the guardianship process.  This is a game-changer.

Per someone else above, don't put the house in other people's names.  Ugh.  A legal and logistical nightmare.  My MIL wanted to do this.  A hard pass for so many reasons.

Protecting assets is a different matter.  The five year lookback comes into play.  My dad did this by putting me as his heir to the IRA.  (I'm an only child.)  The laws were changed to make this less useful.  He knew I would spend the money on Mom if I had to, but it was untouchable by the lookback.

Good luck.  We're pulling for you.  Hope your mom feels better.
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The house is in my and my mother's name.  What are the possible issues?

 
FairWarning said:
The house is in my and my mother's name.  What are the possible issues?
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This one varies by state.  Here in Texas, homestead rights are very different.  But just because you have 50% of a house doesn't mean you automatically inherit the other part when your mother dies, especially if she doesn't have a will.  It can affect things like tax rates.  It may mean that one person can force a sale or buyout.  Losing a judgment in court could mean part of the home value is subject to that judgment.  A lawyer in your state can clear this one up.

 
tough subject.  but necessary.  my parents are in the process of moving 8 minutes away from me.  they are very pragmatic and have everything prepared and squared away.  but it will be very nice, to have them so close.  previously it was a 2 hour round trip.  

my wife (really me) was the executor of her FIL's estate a few years ago. 5 siblings.  no will, nothing prepared.  it was a nightmare.  getting a good attorney is vital.  especially, when you're 3k miles away.  thanks @Idiot Boxer

 
:blackdot:  To fully read everyone's post later.

An abbreviated version of our story:
Moved my in-laws in with us in 2016. FIL has since passed away, MIL just moved to a long term facility within the last month.  They were 82 and 78 when they moved in.  MIL is 83 now.
My parents are 77 and 78 and in poor health.  My mother is in worse shape, spend a month in the hospital, a month in a rehab facility, and is now home with dad against my advice.  Not a great situation.

My wife is really up on the different aspects of this stuff.  I will let her read through this as well.  She may post some info. But, if you have some specific questions you want to PM, I'll make sure she sees them.

This stuff sucks and I'm sorry you are having to deal with it.

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
This one varies by state.  Here in Texas, homestead rights are very different.  But just because you have 50% of a house doesn't mean you automatically inherit the other part when your mother dies, especially if she doesn't have a will.  It can affect things like tax rates.  It may mean that one person can force a sale or buyout.  Losing a judgment in court could mean part of the home value is subject to that judgment.  A lawyer in your state can clear this one up.
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Her brother is a retired lawyer.  I will ask him, thanks.  

 
I am so fortunate that my Mom is in real good health and still very active (not physically per se', but active in her career that's still going - real estate).  I am especially fortunate that she's capable enough to get my Dad around, who's undergoing chemo treatment. My Dad is doing OK with it, but he's very fatigued; sleeps a lot.  Slept a lot even when he wasn't in chemo.  Don't trust him to drive much, if at all, anymore.  They live about 10-15 minutes away and we see them fairly regularly.  I go over to their house to work most Wednesdays.

I pray that my Mom's health continues to be excellent, because if she needed care then it would be on me.... not that I'm incapable, but I have some mental health issues (anxiety for one) that would likely overload me.  

Wishing you all well as you provide your parents with excellent care.

 
FairWarning said:
One brother.  House will be paid for this year.  The deed is in mine and mother's name, has been for 5 years.
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Not sure where you live but in Michigan this would go to probate and your brother would have a say in its disposition. Also depends on if there is a simple will or trust. Either way you’re talking to an attorney I’m afraid.

 
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nirad3 said:
I pray that my Mom's health continues to be excellent, because if she needed care then it would be on me.... not that I'm incapable, but I have some mental health issues (anxiety for one) that would likely overload me.  
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This is why preparation helps.  Having documents and a go to plan in place can ease anxiety and allow you to focus on being there for your loved ones.  It really helps to get stuff out of the way now while you have time.

 
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
FairWarning said:
One brother.  House will be paid for this year.  The deed is in mine and mother's name, has been for 5 years.
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Not sure where you live but in Michigan this would go to probate and your brother would have a say in its disposition. Also depends on if there is a simple will or trust. Either way you’re talking to an attorney I’m afraid.
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I hadn't even considered the possibilty that house (or car) loan wouldn't be paid off.  If one of the parties to the loan dies, it can be made due at that time.  Can be a nasty surprise.

 
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Glad I started this post. Just for my sanity I know I'm going to need to keep a record of events. Glad to see some others are sharing their stories. 

UPDATE:

  • It's been a month. Mom is walking much better with a walker now. I can see a near future where she won't need it. That said, stairs are never going to be in her future again on a regular basis. 
  • Memory lapses are becoming more evident to me all the time now. She's passed along stories to other people that conflict reality. One of her friends got into a huff with me when she told them I was restricting her medications. It wasn't true. Further, she's obsessing a bit over medications and thinking there's some magic pill that will heal her. Her doctor disagrees, but what does he know?
  • Reality is my mom is a happy dementia patient. Thankfully she hasn't gone off the emotional deep end. It might happen, but hasn't happened yet. I can't imagine what it's like to start losing your cognitive ability like this. 
  • I've spent the past month learning about the possible levels of care and how they get paid for. It's a bit scary if you're in the middle. If your dirt poor or super rich the system works well for you. If you're in the middle its tougher. My mom has about $65,000 in the bank and a $2000 net income monthly. Most places don't accept Medicaid (health care for those that are broke), but the ones that do want you to "spend down" your income for at least two or three years before they will accept Medicaid payment for when you run out of money. For those that don't know about the particulars of Medicaid, I suggest you learn about it now if you think you might end up in a situation similar to mine. Medicaid operates as a federal program that's administered differently in different states. In Washington state you won't qualify for Medicaid if you make more that $2300 a month and you have more than $2000 in assets. You have to "spend down" your money paying for care before you can qualify. If you try to hide your money they will find out. In our state they do a seven year background financial check to see what you did with your money. If you gave it to your kids they're going to know and want the family to pay for care. I believe there are ways around this, but I haven't learned about them yet. I'm not looking to scam the system. I just want the money my mom has to go towards her care and not end up bankrupting me in the long run. 
  • There are three basic levels of care

    Independent living - still a fully functioning adult and can care for themselves. 
  • Assisted living - needs help with meals, transportation, and possible other hygiene needs like bathing. (this is where my mom is currently at). 
  • Memory care - brain is going. A danger to themselves if left to "wander". 

[*]I've been on the phone with nearly every facility in my area this past month learning about getting admitted and how they operate. They don't have to accept patients that they don't want. If you can't prove that you can pay full freight for at least two years no facility is going to admit you. The cost will depend on how well you can care for yourself. In my area these range from about $4,000 to $10,000. At $4000 a month that's $96,000 for two years. My mom will have a total of about $110,000 over this time. I'm hoping I can contract with a place that will let her turn to Medicaid when her assets are toast. The reality looks like she can afford about $4500 a month for two years, then will be broke. At that point a facility would get her whole check each month and Medicaid would "kick in" a contracted amount to make up the difference. These facilities can't kick someone out at that point. This is why they are careful about who they accept. 

[*]For the moment, she's insisting that she can continue to rent a room from a friend and doesn't want to move into a facility of any kind. I'm good with that for now, but I think sooner than later she's off to the home. She can't comprehend the idea that we will need to do this before it's too late and she won't be able to afford it. 

[*]Legal stuff: We went to a bank and had a notary stamp some papers for us. Health Power Of Attorney (POA) and a financial POA. My mom was good with signing over her financial control to me to manage her accounts. I can now pay her bills and move her money around if needed. The dude at the bank was pretty suspicious of us doing this, and I'm glad he was. I can see how kids can manipulate their parents into signing over all their money. He took a good 10 minutes to talk to my mom with me out of the room to make sure she understood what she was doing.

What next? I'm looking into "guardianship" papers. I fear that I will have to force her into a place and it will go poorly. That said, she trusts me and knows I want what's best for her. I need to make an appointment with an elder care attorney. Hoping that won't cost too much. I think I can manage that cost, but will feel weird if I have to pay for it. I have access to my mom's money to pay for it, but I think I will need to save that for her down the road. I've got a place I'm focusing on close to my house (and my daughters place too). That way we can still see her often. Right now she's about an hour away. I feel like I'm spending way too much time in my car driving to see her each week a couple of times. 

Will update. If someone is reading this and has some advice I'm all ears (eyes?). Really I'm just journaling in some form to keep a record of what's going on. 

 
Hooper31 said:
I'm looking into "guardianship" papers. I fear that I will have to force her into a place and it will go poorly. That said, she trusts me and knows I want what's best for her. I need to make an appointment with an elder care attorney. Hoping that won't cost too much.
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Get a good attorney.  Worth it's weight in gold.  It shouldn't cost too much, and you'll likely get a free consultation at first so you know what to expect.  I suspect your goal is to avoid guardianship, which involves court supervision and is a PITA.  You probably want to use her money.  I know it's weird, but it is her responsibility and her right.  Having someone not emotionally involved in making decisions is really helpful.  It's hard to separate the emotion from what is needful.  I dealt with it by spending her money as if I were my dad.  I made all my choices that way, unless I knew her express wishes.

Good luck.

 
@Hooper31  A guardianship does have to go through the courts.  This may not be what you need.  The POAs will give you the ability to act on her behalf for most things.  Make several copies.  Do you know that the POAs are not recognized by the feds.  It was  areal PITA dealing with Social Security and Military Veteran's related issues for my father.  Sound like you are getting a good jump on this.  Kudos for having the foresight to educate yourself now.  It can be a brutal and overwhelming process.  I wish you well.

 
Just an overall thanks for this thread as this situation really sucks for all of us going through it.

My dad passed away unexpectedly in January at 78. He did pretty much everything for my mom, age 77. I just had no idea how much he did. She broke both of her hips in the past 2 years, so isn't the most mobile and hasn't been driving. She is starting to get confused and forgetful, but not too bad yet.

So I've taken over all the bills and setting out her daily medications each weekend. 

I have two kids under the age of 5, and I think she is more difficult to deal with then they are. 

 
SayChowda said:
Just an overall thanks for this thread as this situation really sucks for all of us going through it.

My dad passed away unexpectedly in January at 78. He did pretty much everything for my mom, age 77. I just had no idea how much he did. She broke both of her hips in the past 2 years, so isn't the most mobile and hasn't been driving. She is starting to get confused and forgetful, but not too bad yet.

So I've taken over all the bills and setting out her daily medications each weekend. 

I have two kids under the age of 5, and I think she is more difficult to deal with then they are. 
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You might want to consider moving her to some place with more care now while she can contribute to the process.  A place with more social interaction might be good for her mentally.

 
Galileo said:
Do you know that the POAs are not recognized by the feds.  It was  areal PITA dealing with Social Security
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POA's just aren't consistant enough with how they are done.  I was okay with the SSA.  A Texas guardianship is a free pass to becoming a representative payee.  The nice lady at the SSA just processed stuff.  It took me about fifteen minutes.  It was just about the only good thing about becoming a guardian.  Othrwise, you need doctor's notes and crap.  Not fun.

 
SayChowda said:
Just an overall thanks for this thread as this situation really sucks for all of us going through it.

My dad passed away unexpectedly in January at 78. He did pretty much everything for my mom, age 77. I just had no idea how much he did. She broke both of her hips in the past 2 years, so isn't the most mobile and hasn't been driving. She is starting to get confused and forgetful, but not too bad yet.

So I've taken over all the bills and setting out her daily medications each weekend. 

I have two kids under the age of 5, and I think she is more difficult to deal with then they are. 
Click to expand...
One thing that can help memory issues is music.  

 
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