What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Time Magazine: "Shadow Campaign" Influenced 2020 Election Against Trump (2/9 1:54 PST) (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

GordonGekko

Footballguy
TOPIC NARRATIVE:

Time Magazine releases an article discussing a secret shadow campaign of wealthy elites and power brokers who did not rig this 2020 election but merely "fortified" it.

This subversion of our election process reached Big Tech influence, voting laws, state and local officials, social media suppression, social justice movements, corporate interests and hundreds of millions of dollars.

I didn't know our voting process and elections needed to be, as one cabal member put it, "shored up"

QUESTIONS TO RAISE OPEN DISCUSSION:

Do you believe the 2020 general election was, in fact, a free and fair election?

What would you define as the difference between rigging an election and "fortifying" an election?

Do you believe that a secret cabal should determine, as stated, the "proper outcome" of any election in this country?

Do you believe there is hypocrisy in journalist Tim Pool being suppressed by Twitter for merely repeating what the Time article discusses contrasting that Twitter suppressed the Hunter Biden story right before Election Day ( where CEO Jack Dorsey admitted later was an error in their policy and thus changed their policy)?

Does any of this make any of you feel like "democracy triumphed...and won in the end" as Times author Molly Ball so clearly proclaims?

******MAIN ARTICLE******: The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election

By Molly Ball February 4, 2021 5:40 AM EST

–With reporting by LESLIE DICKSTEIN, MARIAH ESPADA and SIMMONE SHAH

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

******MAIN VIDEO*******: TIME Magazine Claims An Elite Cabal Conspired To Stop Trump From Winning, Manipulating Laws And News •Feb 5, 2021

TIME Magazine Claims An Elite Cabal Conspired To Stop Trump From Winning, Manipulating Laws And News. They celebrate the news as though defenders of Democracy saved the day. They call it the Shadow Campaign that "saved" the 2020 election. Democrat elites, Political insiders, Corporate Media, and Big Tech moguls are said to have been involved in a "cabal" in order to protect the "proper outcome" of the election. While they claim they did not explicitly want to stop Trump from winning, because of course they can't say that, they claim they were fighting against Trump's disinformation What is revealing is how Democrat lawyer Marc Elias is now claiming votes were not read by voting machines properly in a much similar way that Trump and his allies claimed, though not completely the same. The game is rigged by a cabal of powerful elites to ensure the winner of our election was their preferred winner. And that is not my opinion, its the claim by TIME Magazine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BEHO08r67U

Direct Headline: Time Magazine: "Shadow Campaign" Influenced 2020 Election - Jordan Sekulow on Newsmax •Feb 8, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBTKBMq-bAs

 
PARAPHRASED CONTENT FROM ALL ARTICLES/VIDEOS TO REMAIN IN COMPLIANCE WITH SINGLE USER FBG FORUM POSTING GUIDELINES:

( As Per 1/4/21 12:33 PST,  https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/790107-healing-and-moving-forward-thoughts/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-23172408 )

" .......'(their efforts against Trump)... touched every (single) aspect of the election..... (Cabal power brokers got)... states to change voting systems/laws and ... secured hundreds of millions in public/private funding..... (they fought)... off voter-suppression lawsuits.... recruited ( and trained) armies of poll workers ..... (and manipulated and)... got millions of people to vote by mail for the first time'......"

"......(the Cabal power brokers)....successfully pressured social media companies..... to (redefine) against disinformation.... and used data-driven strategies (and algorithms)...... (and) executed national public-awareness campaigns'....."

"......(Norm Eisen, a prominent lawyer and former Obama Administration official)...... 'The untold story of (this)election is the thousands of people .... who accomplished the triumph of (our) American democracy..... at its very foundation'........”

“....(On Trump saying within days after the election, there was an orchestrated and clear effort to anoint the winner, even while many key states were still being counted and contested).....'Trump was right'......"

"....'The handshake between business and labor (organizations) was just one component of a vast (cabal)..... to protect (this) election–an extraordinary shadow effort dedicated (and tasked) not to (just) winning the vote but to ensuring it would be free and fair, credible and uncorrupted'....."

“.....(Ian Bassin, co-founder of Protect Democracy).....'But it’s (extremely) important for the country to understand that (the results of this election) didn’t happen accidentally. .....(this) system (and result) didn’t work magically.....(our) democracy is not self-executing'.......”

".......( The participants/cabal want their secret history of the 2020 election told openly)......'a well-funded cabal of (extremely) powerful people, ranging across (many high profile) industries and ideologies.... worked together behind the scenes to influence (public) perceptions... (and) change rules and laws, steer ( traditional media/social media) coverage..... and (ultimately) control the flow of information..... They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it...... And believe the general public needs to understand the (current) system’s fragility.... in order to ensure (completely) that (our) democracy in America endures'....".

"....( In 2019, Mike Podhorzer, senior adviser for the AFL-CIO, the nation’s largest union federation)....(started) circulating weekly number-crunching memos to a small circle of allies ( this noted cabal) and hosting (secret) strategy sessions in D.C.....he concluded ( on his own), was that America’s decentralized election system.... couldn’t be rigged in one (staged event)..... That presented a clear opportunity to shore it up'...."

"....(Pordhorzer organized and lead).....a constellation of operatives across the left who shared overlapping goals but didn’t usually work in concert..... (This secret) group had no name, no leaders and no hierarchy, but it kept the disparate (and powerful) actors in sync. ....as 2020 progressed (towards the election), it stretched to Congress, Silicon Valley and the nation’s statehouses.... It (also) drew energy (and funding) from the summer’s racial-justice protests...(where many) leaders were a key part of (this) liberal alliance....."

"......(Pordhorzer lead).... 'more than 150 organizations (whom) signed a formal letter to every member of Congress seeking $2 billion in (additional) election funding.....CARES Act contained $400 million in grants to state election administrators (to start)...then the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative added $300 million...(told) Secretaries of State....on which (cabal approved) vendors to use.... and to how to locate (absentee vote) drop boxes in 37 states and D.C.'......"

".....(Laura Quinn, a veteran progressive operative who co-founded Catalist piloted a namelessand secret project).....pressured (traditional media/social media) platforms to ..... removing (boosted) content or (policing) accounts (accused of) disinformation' ....."

"....(**** Gephardt, the Democratic former House leader and now a high-powered lobbyist using 20 million from the private sector).....(sought to influence) former elected officials, Cabinet secretaries, (noted) military leaders ... (current) secretaries of state, (also) attorneys general, (and) governors who would be in the eye of the (2020 election) storm'...."

"....(Author Time Magazine's Molly Ball).....'Democracy won in the end. The will of the people prevailed'....."

"......(Journalist/Activist Tim Pool posted about the Time story and ended up being tagged with a warning that you couldn’t interact with his tweet “due to a risk of violence.” ....contrasting the Twitter shut down on the New York Post’s Hunter Biden piece during campaign season)......'the mainstream media either (intentionally) ignored or (openly) cheered the violence that burned down ( the pandemic stricken small businesses in) cities all summer long.... and yet Twitter is (now) using the storming of the Capitol on Jan. 6 to clamp down/suppress on what you can say or share.....but Pool is (merely) repeating exactly what TIME reported publicly.....If this (or any) claim is disputed, take it up with TIME — or better yet (like the NY Post), take down their account for weeks'......"

"....(RealClearPolitics writer Mark Hemingway on the tone deaf Time article)..... 'They cannot (gaslight the public and believe they are enlightened themselves)...with their own warped politicized worldview.....and, at the same time, (still) shout down that everyone that questions the (heavy handed) way that corporate America... is (labeling political dissent)....as crazy, deranged conspiracy theories'....."

 
There was no need for a shadow campaign. Trump provided his opponent with plenty of ammo to use, and he got beaten by seven million votes as a direct result of his failures in office.

 
CONTEXTUAL MATERIAL:

Previous topic on Tim Pool debating Jack Dorsey/Twitter Trust & Safety on Joe Rogan's podcast

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/792483-twitter-executives-detail-plans-for-widespread-political-censorship-124-1948-pst/

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/792483-twitter-executives-detail-plans-for-widespread-political-censorship-124-1948-pst/?do=findComment&comment=23213651

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/792483-twitter-executives-detail-plans-for-widespread-political-censorship-124-1948-pst/?do=findComment&comment=23213653

Direct Headline: Twitter won’t let you like this tweet about TIME’s ‘shadow campaign’ story ‘due to a risk of violence’

Posted at 6:18 pm on February 6, 2021 by Brett T.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/02/06/twitter-wont-let-you-like-this-tweet-about-times-shadow-campaign-story-due-to-a-risk-of-violence/

https://thefederalist.com/2021/02/08/what-time-magazines-bizarre-new-election-report-tells-us-about-corporate-media/

TWITTER: Tim Pool X@XTimcast

"I don't (believe) this even matters at this point..... Time magazine just came out (in public and) said that a cabal of elites rigged the election I'm sorry they (actually) said they didn't rig the election, they (only) "fortified" it, by changing the rules and laws as well as manipulating the flow of (public)information"

This claim of election fraud is disputed, and this Tweet can’t be replied to, Retweeted, or liked due to a risk of violence

https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1357714538783727618

VIDEO: Dorsey admits it was ‘wrong’ to censor Hunter Biden story, NY Post •Nov 17, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWayExRuaYk

TWITTER: Cassandra Fairbanks X@XCassandraRules

"Here is the video we (sourced) of a “vote mobile” van arriving (between) 3:30am and 4:30am into the TCF Center... and (shown) unloading dozens of boxes each trip.... This was (done by timestamp) 8 hours after the (legal) ballot deadline."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/exclusive-tcf-center-election-fraud-newly-recovered-video-shows-late-night-deliveries-tens-thousands-illegal-ballots-michigan-arena/

This claim of election fraud is disputed, and this Tweet can’t be replied to, Retweeted, or liked due to a risk of violence

https://twitter.com/CassandraRules/status/1357708988482269189

Direct Headline: Time Magazine: Shadow Campaign Was Not Rigging The Election, They Were "Fortifying" It

Posted by Charlie Staff - 2.06.21

https://charliekirk.com/news/time-magazine-shadow-campaign-was-not-rigging-the-election-they-were-fortifying-it/

VIDEO: Far-left Dems launch 'shadow campaigns' in states Trump won •Oct 29, 2017

A look ahead to 2020.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6rO8KcXKYw

 
ANALYSIS:

This is basic gaslighting and trying to control the narrative as clearly ugly evidence/media optics will come out during the impeachment trial. The DNC, Big Tech, Big Social Media, Hollywood, Big Education and corporate America will want their own crisis management spin out there first.

Anyone who supports this tone deaf bragging rights Time article as legitimate, legal and objective, I only ask you to substitute, in the article, with the names of established right leaning activists and power brokers and see how you feel about it.  Would you then say,  with a straight face, that this entire repugnant "cabal" didn't rig this election?

They call it a shadow campaign to give the false appearance of legitimacy. It is ALWAYS illegitimate when you spread disinformation and suppress convincing opposing dialogue.

I can sum up and translate this entire Time article - The election wasn't rigged. We know because we rigged it.

 
I already posted this in the Biden thread. I had no problem with it until I hit the fact that they would have had protestors "ready to hit the streets" if Trump had won. That tells me that the BLM/Antifa riot summer was coming from a centralized enough decentralized network to be traced back to the DNC or government funding, likely. The burning buildings we saw this summer were astroturfed threats by domestic terrorists funded by our own government, rather than what we saw on January 6th.

That alone makes it sickening, but I agree with fatguyinalittlecoat that a lot of those people who pressured for the faithful execution of the election are heroes.

Taibbi also made the point of how tone-deaf this article was because the alt-right would pick up the article and holler "conspiracy," just like Gordon Gekko did. It wasn't.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction said:
I already posted this in the Biden thread. I had no problem with it until I hit the fact that they would have had protestors "ready to hit the streets" if Trump had won. That tells me that the BLM/Antifa riot summer was coming from a centralized enough decentralized network to be traced back to the DNC or government funding, likely. The burning buildings we saw this summer were astroturfed threats by domestic terrorists funded by our own government, rather than what we saw on January 6th.

That alone makes it sickening, but I agree with fatguyinalittlecoat that a lot of those people who pressured for the faithful execution of the election are heroes.

Taibbi also made the point of how tone-deaf this article was because the alt-right would pick up the article and holler "conspiracy," just like Gordon Gekko did. It wasn't.
Click to expand...
My problem is big tech’s involvement from censoring  to framing.  That’s pretty powerful. It also shows who is really running the country.

 
FairWarning said:
My problem is big tech’s involvement from censoring  to framing.  That’s pretty powerful. It also shows who is really running the country.
Click to expand...
That's a very pragmatic view that's probably accurate, but I'd give caution about doing anything about it, because when you get into the realm of the theoretical and property rights, it becomes awfully difficult to try and stop the big tech social media companies from controlling the content they allow. Almost every intervention I can think of is a bad precedent set.

But your point is taken. They have a completely outsized influence now. They are the conduit from which almost everybody under fifty gets their information.

 
rockaction said:
That's a very pragmatic view that's probably accurate, but I'd give caution about doing anything about it, because when you get into the realm of the theoretical and property rights, it becomes awfully difficult to try and stop the big tech social media companies from controlling the content they allow. Almost every intervention I can think of is a bad precedent set.

But your point is taken. They have a completely outsized influence now. They are the conduit from which almost everybody under fifty gets their information.
Click to expand...
An example would be googling Hunter Biden and China, and no reputable news sources come up on the first page.  They have no thoughts on him?  He’s not newsworthy?  This coalition has determined that you don’t need to see that.  That’s pretty damning.  Yet I’ve seen a lot of people in various boards wonder how people can’t trust the media and big tech companies.  

 
rockaction said:
I already posted this in the Biden thread. I had no problem with it until I hit the fact that they would have had protestors "ready to hit the streets" if Trump had won. That tells me that the BLM/Antifa riot summer was coming from a centralized enough decentralized network to be traced back to the DNC or government funding, likely. The burning buildings we saw this summer were astroturfed threats by domestic terrorists funded by our own government, rather than what we saw on January 6th.

That alone makes it sickening, but I agree with fatguyinalittlecoat that a lot of those people who pressured for the faithful execution of the election are heroes.

Taibbi also made the point of how tone-deaf this article was because the alt-right would pick up the article and holler "conspiracy," just like Gordon Gekko did. It wasn't.
Click to expand...
Wait...the fires this summer were funded somehow through the DNC or government? Its not bad faith to ask for some sort of proof to this claim...because its a big one that seemingly goes against all we know about who these rioters/looters have been.  Is there any sort of evidence at all of this?

No...I don't believe this guy was funded by the DNC or government...not indirectly even...

 
FairWarning said:
My problem is big tech’s involvement from censoring  to framing.  That’s pretty powerful. It also shows who is really running the country.
Click to expand...
IMO "big tech" was simply the next scapegoat of the misinformation campaign of Donald Trump.  He and those around him repeated the cries about "big tech" enough that people believed everything negative about them...(same as the trust for certain news outlets lowered dramatically from one side because he repeated it so often...like the NYT and WashingtonPost).

Are there issues within those organizations...sure...are they the all out boogeyman Trump made them to be?  No.  I think those who were "censored" by them..knew they would be for spreading what they did.  And knew they could make a stink about it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
FairWarning said:
An example would be googling Hunter Biden and China, and no reputable news sources come up on the first page.  They have no thoughts on him?  He’s not newsworthy?  This coalition has determined that you don’t need to see that.  That’s pretty damning.  Yet I’ve seen a lot of people in various boards wonder how people can’t trust the media and big tech companies.  
Click to expand...
As was posted by MT...https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/792734-sourcing-and-why-it-is-important/?do=findComment&comment=23237032

Major outlets covered it...they refused to cover the poorly sourced unverified portions of the story (which most reputable sources continued to not cover...and for good reason).  And once a certain person was no longer talking about it all the time...seems most other sources have quit as well...why is that?  Because it is not a big story?  Or because the most outlandish parts of it simply were not true?

 
sho nuff said:
Wait...the fires this summer were funded somehow through the DNC or government? Its not bad faith to ask for some sort of proof to this claim...because its a big one that seemingly goes against all we know about who these rioters/looters have been.  Is there any sort of evidence at all of this?

No...I don't believe this guy was funded by the DNC or government...not indirectly even...
Click to expand...
You'll never find a source on that, merely an admission in Time's own article that they had the "more radical" protestors held at bay, but would release them into the streets if Trump won. And don't ever ask me for a source again. You won't get it. You act like a nebbish twit about it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction said:
You'll never find a source on that, merely an admission in Time's own article that they had the "more radical" protestors held at bay, but would release them into the streets if Trump won. And don't ever ask me for a source again. You won't get it. You act like a nebbish twit about it.
Click to expand...
I ask for a source because you made a big big claim about the DNC and Government funding those who started fires over the summer...with not a shred of evidence to back it up...and there was zero need for the continued insults over it...

 
Kal El said:
There was no need for a shadow campaign. Trump provided his opponent with plenty of ammo to use, and he got beaten by seven million votes as a direct result of his failures in office.
Click to expand...
I guess that is the only plus out of  COVID as otherwise Trump would have won again.

 
rockaction said:
 I said "that tells me," which means I'm obviously expressing my opinion. Are you gonna ankle-bite your way up to my shin?
Click to expand...
But what told you that was what...that is the point.  A simple...here it is (the actual quote and where it is from)...would do. Instead, when asked, you go straight to slinging insults.  Because what the article talked about was people trained in de-escalating situations.  Not causing worse.  It in no way inferred that any of the protestors were paid...that anyone organizing fires was paid by anyone or funded by anyone.  So yes...I asked for some source for such an opinion.  Because usually they come from somewhere.

 
joffer said:
good article.  amazing work those people did. 👍
Click to expand...
That actually seems to be the real takeaway.

What I find interesting about the article…is how some want to frame this in any way other than just how bad Trump’s efforts were.  This laid out exactly what they knew was going to happen from Trump’s side…they knew it going back quite some time…they knew it again after the primaries with Covid and knew what would be attacked.

Yet some want to frame this as a bad thing?  That people worked to protect the integrity of the election? 

It wasn't influencing against Trump...it was not subverting the election...it was making sure bogus attacks on the process wouldn't work.

The other quote I found very interesting was this...which seems to apply to message boards often as well.

The most important takeaway from Quinn’s research, however, was that engaging with toxic content only made it worse. “When you get attacked, the instinct is to push back, call it out, say, ‘This isn’t true,'” Quinn says. “But the more engagement something gets, the more the platforms boost it. The algorithm reads that as, ‘Oh, this is popular; people want more of it.'”
Click to expand...

 
sho nuff said:
But what told you that was what...that is the point.  A simple...here it is (the actual quote and where it is from)...would do. Instead, when asked, you go straight to slinging insults.  Because what the article talked about was people trained in de-escalating situations.  Not causing worse.  It in no way inferred that any of the protestors were paid...that anyone organizing fires was paid by anyone or funded by anyone.  So yes...I asked for some source for such an opinion.  Because usually they come from somewhere.
Click to expand...
I have so much to say that will get me suspended, so I won't. "That tells me," is an obvious beginning to an inference. Saying that the organizations had radical protestors at the ready allows me to infer that the central unit spoken of had some control over these protestors. That these groups are a loose coalition of groups that have connections to official Democratic Party apparatus, that leads me up the chain to presume that there's some influence there. Add to that the idea that BLF is getting its money from somewhere and you have an interesting nexus going on. It is neither wild speculation nor crazy positing that there is backdoor control vis a vis the DNC or even funding coming from the federal government to groups either benefited by or acting in cahoots with BLM. Use your head. There is no source. It's called following the admitted control and money.

You have a serious lack of imagination and capacity for critical thought, sho. And for the last time, this isn't a newspaper, it's a message board. People are allowed to presume, assume, exhume, any hume you want. Good day.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction said:
I have so much to say that will get me suspended, so I won't. "That tells me," is an obvious beginning to an inference. Saying that the organizations had radical protestors at the ready, allows me to infer that the central unit spoken of had some control over these protestors. That these groups are a loose coalition of groups that have connections to official Democratic Party apparatus, that leads me up the chain to presume that there's some influence there. Add to that the idea that BLF is getting its money from somewhere and you have an interesting nexus going on. It is neither wild speculation nor crazy positing that there is backdoor control vis a vis the DNC or even funding coming from the federal government to groups either benefited by or acting in cahoots with BLM. Use your head. There is no source. It's called following the admitted control and money.

You have a serious lack of imagination and capacity for critical thought, sho. And for the last time, this isn't a newspaper, it's a message board. People are allowed to presume, assume, exhume, any hume you want. Good day.
Click to expand...
However...did it actually say "radical protester"?  

Because you know what...I could likely gather a decent group by this afternoon by sending a couple of texts.  Me, a nobody with no organization behind me.  Imagine any group who had picked up a huge database of numbers and how easy it is to organize people.  That does not mean there was any real funding to any of it...

So yeah...it seems it is pretty wild speculation to say that anything this summer and those setting fires were somehow funded through the DNC or government.

But I will walk away...because before 8:30 this morning I have been called low value, trolling, twit, lack of imagination and critical thought...and yet..I won't respond in kind and even de-escalating could get me a timeout.

 
squistion said:
When lies are repeated often enough, they then start being repeated as gospel in this forum, even by normally responsible posters.
Click to expand...
No. It has nothing to do with this forum. Don't assign me away from agency for what I'm saying. I fully believe that the riots this summer and the BLM/Antifa protests are related. BLM had a chance to disavow the looting and rioting and specifically didn't, especially in Illinois when they were directly asked, an area that was going through massive rioting and looting problems. Given their attitude, mixed with the proximity and time of the actions taking place, and I firmly believe that there was crossover. It beggars belief that there wasn't.

The CNN screencap of the "peaceful" protests juxtaposed against the burning buildings in their own coverage let one know that the media was not on the up-and-up about what was really going on. I'm simply using common sense.

 
rockaction said:
No. It has nothing to do with this forum. Don't assign me away from agency for what I'm saying. I fully believe that the riots this summer and the BLM/Antifa protests are related. BLM had a chance to disavow the looting and rioting and specifically didn't, especially in Illinois when they were directly asked, an area that was going through massive rioting and looting problems. Given their attitude, mixed with the proximity and time of the actions taking place, and I firmly believe that there was crossover. It beggars belief that there wasn't.

The CNN screencap of the "peaceful" protests juxtaposed against the burning buildings in their own coverage let one know that the media was not on the up-and-up about what was really going on. I'm simply using common sense.
Click to expand...
Sorry, they weren't the BLM riots (and not issuing a public statement disavowing them doesn't make it so). 

 
squistion said:
Sorry, they weren't the BLM riots (and not issuing a public statement disavowing them doesn't make it so).
Click to expand...
You and tim can keep issuing declaratives that mimic the DNC-media industrial complex, but every citizen with a brain knows they were linked. That's just how it goes. The saving grace was one of "at least it's not in my area" and that the public generally agreed with the cause of the protestors, or otherwise Trump would have won the election in a landslide, a disastrous consequence. And BLM/Antifa should be thanking their lucky stars that he didn't win. But as far as the protests go, Quint quickly linked to plain sight daytime looting and rioting, and the same thing happened here in L.A. when the local news was covering BLM protests. KTLA had tons of footage of protestors blocking traffic, hopping on cop cars, destroying cop cars, setting fire to them, etc.

You'd have to be an apparatchik to deny the involvement, and...well...you and tim kind of are.

 
rockaction said:
You and tim can keep issuing declaratives that mimic the DNC-media industrial complex, but every citizen with a brain knows they were linked. That's just how it goes. The saving grace was one of "at least it's not in my area" and that the public generally agreed with the cause of the protestors, or otherwise Trump would have won the election in a landslide, a disastrous consequence. And BLM/Antifa should be thanking their lucky stars that he didn't win. But as far as the protests go, Quint quickly linked to plain sight daytime looting and rioting, and the same thing happened here in L.A. when the local news was covering BLM protests. KTLA had tons of footage of protestors blocking traffic, hopping on cop cars, destroying cop cars, setting fire to them, etc.

You'd have to be an apparatchik to deny the involvement, and...well...you and tim kind of are.
Click to expand...
:sigh:  

And the insults begin.  :coffee:

 
rockaction said:
I meant is as hyperbole, not as an insult. Apparatchik was the insult.

You're not on top of you game this morning.
Click to expand...
You are not either if you are insulting people suggesting they don't have a brain and then calling it hyperbole. 

I didn't take offense at Apparatchik since I was unfamiliar with the term - thought that was where Lee surrendered. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
squistion said:
:sigh:  

And the insults begin.  :coffee:
Click to expand...
I don’t feel insulted. And @rockaction’s point is well taken. BLM should have condemned the riots, forcefully. The fact that they didn’t suggests that the leadership of BLM is just a little too leftist for my tastes. But I already knew that. 
But my point remains. There’s no evidence that they led the riots. There’s no evidence that the vast majority of protestors were anything but peaceful (this is also true of the “stop the steal” protestors BTW) and there’s ABSOLUTELY no evidence that there’s any connection between BLM and the near mythical Antifa. It’s a falsehood, and a lazy one at that. 

 
timschochet said:
I don’t feel insulted. And @rockaction’s point is well taken. BLM should have condemned the riots, forcefully. The fact that they didn’t suggests that the leadership of BLM is just a little too leftist for my tastes. But I already knew that. 
But my point remains. There’s no evidence that they led the riots. There’s no evidence that the vast majority of protestors were anything but peaceful (this is also true of the “stop the steal” protestors BTW) and there’s ABSOLUTELY no evidence that there’s any connection between BLM and the near mythical Antifa. It’s a falsehood, and a lazy one at that. 
Click to expand...
I've been writing since the summer why BLM and Antifa are likely related in the Rock du Jour thread. Surprised you didn't bring up my "lazy" analysis then. This is nothing new. BLM and Antifa are like peas n' carrots, if I can borrow a Forrest Gump term. One is Marxist, the other anarchist. They make wonderful bedfellows, all things considered. In fact, I bet if you read their mission statements (I've read BLMs) you'll find the same Marxist pabulum lying underneath it all. One just happens to be largely black, and the other white, but it's all the same (and there certainly is black and white overlap in each group, but we're talking about who really runs things.) BLM and Antifa moved together, especially in Wisconsin this summer, where a ton of damage was done in Kenosha.

 
rockaction said:
I've been writing since the summer why BLM and Antifa are likely related in the Rock du Jour thread. Surprised you didn't bring up my "lazy" analysis then. This is nothing new. BLM and Antifa are like peas n' carrots, if I can borrow a Forrest Gump term. One is Marxist, the other anarchist. They make wonderful bedfellows, all things considered. In fact, I bet if you read their mission statements (I've read BLMs) you'll find the same Marxist pabulum lying underneath it all. One just happens to be largely black, and the other white, but it's all the same (and there certainly is black and white overlap in each group, but we're talking about who really runs things.) BLM and Antifa moved together, especially in Wisconsin this summer, where a ton of damage was done in Kenosha.
Click to expand...
You could have 1000 protests across the nation. Let’s say 50 cities had substantial rioting and looting.  950 out of 1000 were peaceful and that’s a high percentage.  The 50 were 1000 caused directly or indirectly from BLM/antifa - those wouldn’t have taken place otherwise.

 
rockaction said:
I've been writing since the summer why BLM and Antifa are likely related in the Rock du Jour thread. Surprised you didn't bring up my "lazy" analysis then. This is nothing new. BLM and Antifa are like peas n' carrots, if I can borrow a Forrest Gump term. One is Marxist, the other anarchist. They make wonderful bedfellows, all things considered. In fact, I bet if you read their mission statements (I've read BLMs) you'll find the same Marxist pabulum lying underneath it all. One just happens to be largely black, and the other white, but it's all the same (and there certainly is black and white overlap in each group, but we're talking about who really runs things.) BLM and Antifa moved together, especially in Wisconsin this summer, where a ton of damage was done in Kenosha.
Click to expand...
Yes I read your thread. Calling BLM Marxist is lazy. It’s like calling Nelson Mandela Marxist (he was at one time a member of the Communist Party but when in office he didn’t act like a Communist at all.) 

We’ve discussed this before with the SDS. What you fail to recognize is that there’s a huge difference between an actual Marxist (someone who wants to replace our capitalistic way of life) and someone who wants to solve a real problem in society, and usually out of desperation mistakenly sees Marxism as the best way to achieve that goal. Just as with the Vietnam War, millions of Americans were outraged by the murder of George Floyd and want to see an end to racial injustice. This includes my daughters, both of whom marched peacefully in BLM led protests last summer. The vast majority of these marchers were not Marxist- my daughters couldn’t even tell you what the term means. You need to stop making this mistake.

Antifa is a different situation. I would guess that most members of Antifa know exactly what anarchism is (or at least what it’s supposed to be) and they’re for it. That’s probably why their numbers are so small. But years ago I went to a Vandals concert in Long Beach and sang along to “Anarchy Burger” (Hold the government!) I suppose to you that makes me a sympathizer? 

 
I've also found when people on the internet these days are confronted with uncomfortable truths, their first response is to call the obvious analysis "lazy" as if heaving boulders to find nuance instead of dead worms were at all possible.

For example, I'm in a thread about comedy and political correctness or cancel culture. Comedians swear that this is the case -- that comedy is harder because of the Puritanical strain going around these days about any verboten subject. But hagmania, Bernie Bro extraordinaire calls my analysis -- which is keeping in tune with all these professional comedians -- "lazy," as if I'm supposed to move heaven and earth to find out or divine the reason behind these comedians saying that cancel culture is a problem for comedy. No, rock, that's just lazy. You don't have comedians as diverse as Stanhope to Seinfield to Chappelle talking about it.

It's like the new left got together and decided the fallout from their uncomfortable bedfellows or situations was to be deemed "lazy analysis."

 
FairWarning said:
You could have 1000 protests across the nation. Let’s say 50 cities had substantial rioting and looting.  950 out of 1000 were peaceful and that’s a high percentage.  The 50 were 1000 caused directly or indirectly from BLM/antifa - those wouldn’t have taken place otherwise.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect as well, IMO. The riots were not a result of the protests, they were the result of the murder of George Floyd. Had there been no organized protests there would have still been rioting- arguably much more in fact. 

 
rockaction said:
I've been writing since the summer why BLM and Antifa are likely related in the Rock du Jour thread. Surprised you didn't bring up my "lazy" analysis then. This is nothing new. BLM and Antifa are like peas n' carrots, if I can borrow a Forrest Gump term. One is Marxist, the other anarchist. They make wonderful bedfellows, all things considered. In fact, I bet if you read their mission statements (I've read BLMs) you'll find the same Marxist pabulum lying underneath it all. One just happens to be largely black, and the other white, but it's all the same (and there certainly is black and white overlap in each group, but we're talking about who really runs things.) BLM and Antifa moved together, especially in Wisconsin this summer, where a ton of damage was done in Kenosha.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? Antifa put out a mission statement?   :lol:   That is pretty good trick for an organization that doesn't actually exist. 

 
timschochet said:
Yes I read your thread. Calling BLM Marxist is lazy. It’s like calling Nelson Mandela Marxist (he was at one time a member of the Communist Party but when in office he didn’t act like a Communist at all.) 

We’ve discussed this before with the SDS. What you fail to recognize is that there’s a huge difference between an actual Marxist (someone who wants to replace our capitalistic way of life) and someone who wants to solve a real problem in society, and usually out of desperation mistakenly sees Marxism as the best way to achieve that goal. Just as with the Vietnam War, millions of Americans were outraged by the murder of George Floyd and want to see an end to racial injustice. This includes my daughters, both of whom marched peacefully in BLM led protests last summer. The vast majority of these marchers were not Marxist- my daughters couldn’t even tell you what the term means. You need to stop making this mistake.

Antifa is a different situation. I would guess that most members of Antifa know exactly what anarchism is (or at least what it’s supposed to be) and they’re for it. That’s probably why their numbers are so small. But years ago I went to a Vandals concert in Long Beach and sang along to “Anarchy Burger” (Hold the government!) I suppose to you that makes me a sympathizer? 
Click to expand...
BLMs mission statement is Marxist. Why is that "lazy"?

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Joe Bryant
Election Deniers Are Bad, Right?
20 21 22
Replies
1K
Views
28K
knowledge dropper
knowledge dropper
GordonGekko
Republican National Committee: "Over 150 Examples Of Democrats Denying Election Results" (10/22/22 11:14 PST)
Replies
15
Views
870
JIslander
J
dozer
****Official DOJ Investigation into Trump, Fake Electors, Fraud, Etc.****
5 6 7
Replies
348
Views
11K
Sabertooth
Sabertooth

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top