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Mark Cuban - NBA - And this take (1 Viewer)

supermike80

Footballguy
First let me say I am not against kneeling for the anthem.  I'm one of those that believes America allows you to do these things.  I don't support it and I don't like it, but that's just too bad for me.  Same as burning a flag. I won't do it, I won't support it and I wont cheer those on that do it, but I will also acknowledge it's their right as an American.

So when Cuban removed the anthem I though it might be for the better.  The NBA came along and crushed that...which isn't surprising.

What IS surprising is this take by Vincent Goodwill from yahoo sports.  He states that although Cuban fostered an aura of sexual harassment and had to pay $10 million and apologize, that's ok. This makes him a flawed rebel with a cause.

So is he saying its OK he harasses women, but don't you dare touch BLM?

This kind of stuff makes any cause weakened to me.  It is NOT ok to harass women, it is NOT ok to say what he said.  Will he catch flack? No.  Because right now going against anything related to the BLM is a death sentence.  And it starts to resonate negatively.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nb-as-social-currency-is-gone-after-national-anthem-decision-002750572.html

 
First let me say I am not against kneeling for the anthem.  I'm one of those that believes America allows you to do these things.  I don't support it and I don't like it, but that's just too bad for me.  Same as burning a flag. I won't do it, I won't support it and I wont cheer those on that do it, but I will also acknowledge it's their right as an American.

So when Cuban removed the anthem I though it might be for the better.  The NBA came along and crushed that...which isn't surprising.

What IS surprising is this take by Vincent Goodwill from yahoo sports.  He states that although Cuban fostered an aura of sexual harassment and had to pay $10 million and apologize, that's ok. This makes him a flawed rebel with a cause.

So is he saying its OK he harasses women, but don't you dare touch BLM?

This kind of stuff makes any cause weakened to me.  It is NOT ok to harass women, it is NOT ok to say what he said.  Will he catch flack? No.  Because right now going against anything related to the BLM is a death sentence.  And it starts to resonate negatively.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nb-as-social-currency-is-gone-after-national-anthem-decision-002750572.html
You are correct.  The reference to sexual harassment and then being a "rebel" is disgusting.  

Anyhoo, I thought we were united now, or reunited.  At least that's what Bruce Springsteen told me during the Jeep SB commercial.  So the anthem is still not "ours"? 

 
You are correct.  The reference to sexual harassment and then being a "rebel" is disgusting.  

Anyhoo, I thought we were united now, or reunited.  At least that's what Bruce Springsteen told me during the Jeep SB commercial.  So the anthem is still not "ours"? 
Why don't we all agree to stop with this healing talk nonsense.  

 
You are correct.  The reference to sexual harassment and then being a "rebel" is disgusting.  

Anyhoo, I thought we were united now, or reunited.  At least that's what Bruce Springsteen told me during the Jeep SB commercial.  So the anthem is still not "ours"? 
Bruce was cancelled if you didn't hear.  DUI In November.  So he's done.

 
I didn't take the sexual harassment comment as him being a rebel...that is what he called him flawed for.  The "in addition to being a rebel" was about his other behaviors including this anthem thing.  He also didn't go against BLM...not sure who you are saying did.  Because what Cuban was doing was probably more in line with what BLM would want. The NBA sort of just dropped it after having it so front and center in the bubble.  But the players still talk about it.  And maybe the NBA/Silver sees some backlash...but as the article also points out...we "worship at the alter" of sports.  And its not as if they are taking some big stand against BLM either.

I think this could easily bring about the broader topic that is also in the article...the use of the national anthem at sporting events.  It seems, as the article stated, its more now about the custom of doing it than anything.  When people arrive late, or are standing in food/drink lines, or in the bathrooms after tailgating...has it lost its real purpose?  What is the real purpose of playing it before every game in any league?

 
.has it lost its real purpose?  What is the real purpose of playing it before every game in any league?
Not sure there is an official playbook on the real purpose or where the tradition started.  For better or worse that answer doesn't really matter anymore because it is tradition.

The issue now is that its not about "hey lets get rid of this unnecessary content and give more time for people to pee"  its "lets get rid of it because some people don't like symbols of our country and unity".  Right or wrong...that sounds not good.

 
The anthem will be gone before games soon enough because it triggers the left. 

And the OP forgot to credit Kaepernick for this.  :lmao:

 
Why don't we all agree to stop with this healing talk nonsense.  
Can you and I decide that??? Sweet!!

Can we also agree that the talk of us not being "united" to begin with is nonsense and fomented by people looking to fulfill that prophecy?

 
What is the real purpose of playing it before every game in any league?
This is easy: it's a simple, low-cost exercise of civic unity.  A nice way of putting is "We're here to root for Team A to beat Team B, but we're all Americans first."  

I'm hard-wired to rebel against this sort of thing.  It would be comforting to imagine that I reasoned my way to thinking that this is bad somehow, but the fact of the matter is that I remember thinking that the pledge of allegiance was weird when I was in elementary school, and I remember thinking that playing the national anthem before sporting events was kind of low-key creepy when I was a kid without being able to articulate why I felt that way.  My view on this isn't irrational, but it's probably non-rational.  Regardless, though, I tend to notice stuff like this and be hyper-aware of the fact that these customs exist and why they appeal to normal people.

 
This is easy: it's a simple, low-cost exercise of civic unity.  A nice way of putting is "We're here to root for Team A to beat Team B, but we're all Americans first."  

I'm hard-wired to rebel against this sort of thing.  It would be comforting to imagine that I reasoned my way to thinking that this is bad somehow, but the fact of the matter is that I remember thinking that the pledge of allegiance was weird when I was in elementary school, and I remember thinking that playing the national anthem before sporting events was kind of low-key creepy when I was a kid without being able to articulate why I felt that way.  My view on this isn't irrational, but it's probably non-rational.  Regardless, though, I tend to notice stuff like this and be hyper-aware of the fact that these customs exist and why they appeal to normal people.
It started in WWI - I believe in the 1918 Red Sox World Series- as a sign of unity. It’s long outlived that usefulness.  Americans are too Balkanized for phony displays of unity.  Can it.

 
Just read he blew .02. No adult on the planet is impaired at .02. How does that happen?
I read that,  If so it can`t be correct.   Maybe his lawyers go through to someone really fast after his arrest.  No police office would arrest someone with an .02, and not The Boss in Jersey.

 
Just read he blew .02. No adult on the planet is impaired at .02. How does that happen?
He probably blew higher earlier.  Usually you get a field test when your stopped and another one at the jail. They will usually give a break and give the lower amount. That is a drink right there, wonder what else happened.   Sounds like BS actually.

 
Just read he blew .02. No adult on the planet is impaired at .02. How does that happen?
That wouldn't happen in my hometown, but if you were born in the USA you should realize that our DUI laws are no joke.  He'll probably lose his license and have to hoof it wherever he goes from now on, but I hear he was born to run so I'm sure he'll be okay.

 
I didn't take the sexual harassment comment as him being a rebel...that is what he called him flawed for.  The "in addition to being a rebel" was about his other behaviors including this anthem thing.  He also didn't go against BLM...not sure who you are saying did.  Because what Cuban was doing was probably more in line with what BLM would want. The NBA sort of just dropped it after having it so front and center in the bubble.  But the players still talk about it.  And maybe the NBA/Silver sees some backlash...but as the article also points out...we "worship at the alter" of sports.  And its not as if they are taking some big stand against BLM either.

I think this could easily bring about the broader topic that is also in the article...the use of the national anthem at sporting events.  It seems, as the article stated, its more now about the custom of doing it than anything.  When people arrive late, or are standing in food/drink lines, or in the bathrooms after tailgating...has it lost its real purpose?  What is the real purpose of playing it before every game in any league?
Cuban stated it was because the NBA has 107 foreign born players now and is a global game and that it does not represent everyone.  Who knows?  

Did not know about his sexual harrassment problems. Suprised the NBA did not step in on that one.

 
The anthem before sporting events is very dumb. Super duper dumb. And annoying. This has been my TED talk.
I’ve always thought it’s fine for international events like Olympics, World Cup games, FIBA basketball, where two national teams are playing each other.  Gets creepy for me at domestic high school, colleges and pro events. It’s always awkward when the song starts playing when I’m at the urinal or in line to get a beer and I feel like I have to drop everything, take off the hat and assume the position, or some Karen is going to get in my grill. 
 

 
Cuban stated it was because the NBA has 107 foreign born players now and is a global game and that it does not represent everyone.  Who knows?  

Did not know about his sexual harrassment problems. Suprised the NBA did not step in on that one.
Not officially, That was reported by a second or third hand source. In the official team statement, he was rather vague or ambiguous and saying that people felt that the anthem didn't represent them, which may refer to race and/or political beliefs, not just national origin:

https://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/sportsxchange/nba-to-mark-cuban-teams-play-the-national-anthem/article_276b17b8-6fff-5be4-b65f-50337bd4f45d.html

"We respect and always have respected the passion people have for the anthem and our country," Cuban said in the statement. "But we also loudly hear the voices of those who feel that the anthem does not represent them. We feel that their voices need to be respected and heard, because they have not been. Going forward, our hope is that people will take the same passion they have for this issue and apply the same amount of energy to listen to those who feel differently from them. Only then we can move forward and have courageous conversations that move this country forward and find what unites us."

 
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This is easy: it's a simple, low-cost exercise of civic unity.  A nice way of putting is "We're here to root for Team A to beat Team B, but we're all Americans first."  

I'm hard-wired to rebel against this sort of thing.  It would be comforting to imagine that I reasoned my way to thinking that this is bad somehow, but the fact of the matter is that I remember thinking that the pledge of allegiance was weird when I was in elementary school, and I remember thinking that playing the national anthem before sporting events was kind of low-key creepy when I was a kid without being able to articulate why I felt that way.  My view on this isn't irrational, but it's probably non-rational.  Regardless, though, I tend to notice stuff like this and be hyper-aware of the fact that these customs exist and why they appeal to normal people.
Interesting. 

My experience with it is different. I loved sports growing up and played tons and attended lots of events. As a result, I grew to love the national anthem because to young me it meant sports was about to happen

A few years ago the national anthem was played at the start of a Veterans Treatment Court I was a part of. I remember my intial, mostly emotional reaction was thinking the song was out of place because this wasn't a sporting event. I had to take the time to think it through and deduce that, actually, this setting was an almost ideal setting for the song to be played and my initial response was actually the irrational take. Since then, I have now found the playing of the national anthem before sporting events to be an almost disservice to the song because it primarily associates it with sports instead of some sort of call to unify or be proud of one's country or whatever. 

 
Not officially, That was reported by a second or third hand source. In the official team statement, he was rather vague or ambiguous and saying that people felt that the anthem didn't represent them, which may refer to race, pr political beliefs, not just national origin:

https://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/sportsxchange/nba-to-mark-cuban-teams-play-the-national-anthem/article_276b17b8-6fff-5be4-b65f-50337bd4f45d.html

"We respect and always have respected the passion people have for the anthem and our country," Cuban said in the statement. "But we also loudly hear the voices of those who feel that the anthem does not represent them. We feel that their voices need to be respected and heard, because they have not been. Going forward, our hope is that people will take the same passion they have for this issue and apply the same amount of energy to listen to those who feel differently from them. Only then we can move forward and have courageous conversations that move this country forward and find what unites us."
I guess I have to ask who is "them"?  What exactly unites us?  The NA is about the USA as a whole not about individuals.  My mother is a first generation American who stands proudly and sings the NA because she fought hard to be here, as does her whole family.

 
I’ve always thought it’s fine for international events like Olympics, World Cup games, FIBA basketball, where two national teams are playing each other.  Gets creepy for me at domestic high school, colleges and pro events. It’s always awkward when the song starts playing when I’m at the urinal or in line to get a beer and I feel like I have to drop everything, take off the hat and assume the position, or some Karen is going to get in my grill. 
 
I have a buddy who is that Karen. I go to baseball games with him at times and he gets weird if I don't remove my hat. He occasionally uses the season tickets for a VIP in DC and anytime we use those tickets he has rules about the anthem and God Bless America. Lest any neighbors report back to the season ticket holder that proper reverence was not shown. Cracks me up.

 
I have a buddy who is that Karen. I go to baseball games with him at times and he gets weird if I don't remove my hat. He occasionally uses the season tickets for a VIP in DC and anytime we use those tickets he has rules about the anthem and God Bless America. Lest any neighbors report back to the season ticket holder that proper reverence was not shown. Cracks me up.
Then be respectful

 
Cuban is trying to pacify everyone - and when you try to play both sides, eventually both sides see you're fake and just playing and you lose everyone's support

 
Cuban stated it was because the NBA has 107 foreign born players now and is a global game and that it does not represent everyone.  Who knows?  

Did not know about his sexual harrassment problems. Suprised the NBA did not step in on that one.
The whole point of the anthem is for the fans, not the players.

They play O Canada before games in Toronto, but only like 5 NBA players are Canadian.

 
I don't get all of the "its creepy" comments.

If you are a citizen of the United States, you are already giving loyalty to the nation by agreeing to adhere to its laws and submit to its governance.  Luckily, we don't force our general population of citizens to remain here or even stand or salute the flag during the anthem.  You can sit and pick your nose or kneel or whatever, but like all forms of free speech, the rest of society has a right to shun you or call you names for doing so.  You can call them "karens" all you want, but you are equally susceptible to being called a "liberal commie" and told to leave the country if you don't like it.  That is equally their right.

Most people equate the anthem with respect for the sacrifices that were made by our predecessors to make the country free and prosperous.  To "disrespect" the anthem or the flag is considered to be disrespectful to those who died or suffered in our nation's history.  I personally feel the desire to honor our nation and continue to show respect during the anthem.  Some don't, and that's cool too.  But I don't see how any of that is "creepy".

 
The whole point of the anthem is for the fans, not the players.

They play O Canada before games in Toronto, but only like 5 NBA players are Canadian.
They play both the Star Spangled Banner and O Canada at every Buffalo Sabres game, regardless of whether the Sabres are playing a Canadian team.  Probably like 20% of the crowd on any given night is Canadian though, so it's a nice courtesy.  Not sure if other teams do that these days, for awhile I believe they were the only team in the 4 major professional sports to play both anthems every game.

 
Just read he blew .02. No adult on the planet is impaired at .02. How does that happen?
That wouldn't happen in my hometown, but if you were born in the USA you should realize that our DUI laws are no joke.  He'll probably lose his license and have to hoof it wherever he goes from now on, but I hear he was born to run so I'm sure he'll be okay.
well done bromigo take that to the bank 

 
I don't get all of the "its creepy" comments.

If you are a citizen of the United States, you are already giving loyalty to the nation by agreeing to adhere to its laws and submit to its governance.  Luckily, we don't force our general population of citizens to remain here or even stand or salute the flag during the anthem.  You can sit and pick your nose or kneel or whatever, but like all forms of free speech, the rest of society has a right to shun you or call you names for doing so.  You can call them "karens" all you want, but you are equally susceptible to being called a "liberal commie" and told to leave the country if you don't like it.  That is equally their right.

Most people equate the anthem with respect for the sacrifices that were made by our predecessors to make the country free and prosperous.  To "disrespect" the anthem or the flag is considered to be disrespectful to those who died or suffered in our nation's history.  I personally feel the desire to honor our nation and continue to show respect during the anthem.  Some don't, and that's cool too.  But I don't see how any of that is "creepy".
We've allowed some of our fellow Americans who say things like that to become too weak.  They sit in their homes afraid of a virus.  They live off government assistance and want their student debts paid off.   They carry on all day about a president that isn't even in office anymore.  Names of sports teams and restaurants make them upset.  They live on social media and repeat catchy phrases reinforcing their bubble that's protecting their frailty.  

 
i like the anthem and personally and i stand for it and remove my hat but i have to be honest it makes a lot more sense to me when i do that as they play the anthem at the local cemetery on memorial day than when they play it before a game between two crappy local high school teams take that to the bank bromigos 

 
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I don't get all of the "its creepy" comments.

If you are a citizen of the United States, you are already giving loyalty to the nation by agreeing to adhere to its laws and submit to its governance.  Luckily, we don't force our general population of citizens to remain here or even stand or salute the flag during the anthem.  You can sit and pick your nose or kneel or whatever, but like all forms of free speech, the rest of society has a right to shun you or call you names for doing so.  You can call them "karens" all you want, but you are equally susceptible to being called a "liberal commie" and told to leave the country if you don't like it.  That is equally their right.

Most people equate the anthem with respect for the sacrifices that were made by our predecessors to make the country free and prosperous.  To "disrespect" the anthem or the flag is considered to be disrespectful to those who died or suffered in our nation's history.  I personally feel the desire to honor our nation and continue to show respect during the anthem.  Some don't, and that's cool too.  But I don't see how any of that is "creepy".
I think if its important to you to confirm your own patriotism, why not stand in your living room at home and play the national anthem each morning?  Why limit it to sporting events and other public displays?  I wouldn't judge you for doing that. What if you are home on your couch when the anthem is shown before a game - do you stand and ask those in your household to stand and assume the position until it is over?  I don't appreciate a stranger questioning my patriotism due to my participation in a public ritual which I view as window dressing.  Its fake patriotism to me - more an opportunity to judge others than to confirm your own beliefs. It is especially creepy when combined with a military display such as a flyover. Imagine something like that happening at a high school sporting event in Germany today.  We all cringe when we see the public displays of fealty fascist and communist governments force on their citizens.  

I will always stand and be respectful when the anthem is played, but I'd prefer if it weren't associated with things like domestic sporting events.  If I'm at a military ceremony or other national event, it is completely appropriate.

 
"Cracks him up"

Wow....I can;t even believe that....

Loving your country and respecting it is funny now I guess.  
No, clutching pearls is funny. Again with the wheat/chaff. You feel free to show respect to those you feel deserve it however you like and I will do the same. The anthem at sporting events is stupid and an especially stupid way to measure somebody's respect for sacrifice. And I don't love my country. I was born here. I am afforded a lot of luxuries as a result. I was definitely born on third base and by being born white, male, and in the country, I was born sliding into home really. That's pretty fortunate. But there are many nice places in the world and I'm more of an I love Earth type than somebody who breaks out pom poms for the United States. Too complicated a history and too many ####ty things that brought us here to summarily fall in line that way.

 
No, clutching pearls is funny. Again with the wheat/chaff. You feel free to show respect to those you feel deserve it however you like and I will do the same. The anthem at sporting events is stupid and an especially stupid way to measure somebody's respect for sacrifice. And I don't love my country. I was born here. I am afforded a lot of luxuries as a result. I was definitely born on third base and by being born white, male, and in the country, I was born sliding into home really. That's pretty fortunate. But there are many nice places in the world and I'm more of an I love Earth type than somebody who breaks out pom poms for the United States. Too complicated a history and too many ####ty things that brought us here to summarily fall in line that way.
Dude you showed it.  We get it.  You don't love this country.  Understood.

 
I think if its important to you to confirm your own patriotism, why not stand in your living room at home and play the national anthem each morning?  Why limit it to sporting events and other public displays?  I wouldn't judge you for doing that. What if you are home on your couch when the anthem is shown before a game - do you stand and ask those in your household to stand and assume the position until it is over?  I don't appreciate a stranger questioning my patriotism due to my participation in a public ritual which I view as window dressing.  Its fake patriotism to me - more an opportunity to judge others than to confirm your own beliefs. It is especially creepy when combined with a military display such as a flyover. Imagine something like that happening at a high school sporting event in Germany today.  We all cringe when we see the public displays of fealty fascist and communist governments force on their citizens.  

I will always stand and be respectful when the anthem is played, but I'd prefer if it weren't associated with things like domestic sporting events.  If I'm at a military ceremony or other national event, it is completely appropriate.
Huh?  Because the whole point is that it is a public display.  I'm not doing it to confirm my own patriotism to myself.  This isn't some religious practice like prayer.

And we aren't fascist or communist and no one is forced to participate by the government, so we do so out of gratitude and respect.  And you can be judged and looked down on if you don't agree.  You want to take a stand against the anthem, than you have to be ready for the heat that it causes.  It's not like you are being barred from the sporting event or physically assaulted or discriminated against.  (Note, that is what happens in fascist regimes).

If you can't tell the difference, than I don't know what to tell you.

 
I have a buddy who is that Karen. I go to baseball games with him at times and he gets weird if I don't remove my hat. He occasionally uses the season tickets for a VIP in DC and anytime we use those tickets he has rules about the anthem and God Bless America. Lest any neighbors report back to the season ticket holder that proper reverence was not shown. Cracks me up.
Men are not Karens.  That term grew old fast.  Just say your buddy is a stickler, jerk or whatever.

 
No, he's right. We get it.
Supermike80 + mouse

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Am I missing part of the story? Some are saying Cuban is playing both sides, or caved or whatever. NBA owners aren't free to do whatever they want without consequence. He was the first to attempt to implement the policy. Others may follow suit and maybe enough to influence the mandate on the anthem. I don't see Cuban as giving in or playing both sides at all.

 
Huh?  Because the whole point is that it is a public display.  I'm not doing it to confirm my own patriotism to myself.  This isn't some religious practice like prayer.

And we aren't fascist or communist and no one is forced to participate by the government, so we do so out of gratitude and respect.  And you can be judged and looked down on if you don't agree.  You want to take a stand against the anthem, than you have to be ready for the heat that it causes.  It's not like you are being barred from the sporting event or physically assaulted or discriminated against.  (Note, that is what happens in fascist regimes).

If you can't tell the difference, than I don't know what to tell you.
Exactly - its a "look at me" moment, and an opportunity to judge others and validate your own feeling of superiority.

 

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