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Tonight on Hannity...Woka-cola...hate crime shmate crime (1 Viewer)

parasaurolophus

parasaurolophus

Footballguy
Figured we could combine all of the wilder leftist ideas/actions into one thread. Credit to Tim for the title. Now that I have learned that this is the kind of content Hannity covers I am going to start watching his show. These crazy ideas are important to shun as early as possible so they dont gain traction. Sounds like Hannity is a great guy. I always thought he mostly peddled in right wing conspiracy theories but if he does legit news like this, I am in. Thanks tim!

Not just the bay area this time. 

Oregon promotes teacher program that seeks to undo 'racism in mathematics'

A toolkit includes a list of ways 'white supremacy culture' allegedly 'infiltrates math classrooms'

Yep. Focusing on getting the right answer(in math) is white supremacy. 

eta: woka cola was not my creation, but i think its funny

NBC News all of a sudden takes the right wing standpoint of wanting to actually make sure a crime is racially motivated beforr labeling it a hate crime after increase of anti asian Violence...hmmm....wonder why? 

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Yeah sounds awful to encourage training to help minority kids do better in math.
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Instead of focusing on one right answer, the toolkit encourages teachers to "come up with at least two answers that might solve this problem." 

It adds: "Challenge standardized test questions by getting the 'right' answer, but justify other answers by unpacking the assumptions that are made in the problem."

It also encourages teachers to "center ethnomathematics," which includes a variety of guidelines. One of them instructs educators to "identify and challenge the ways that math is used to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views."
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Sorry, but this is nuts.  And also racist, in the "let's implement policies that will systematically disadvantage black kids" meaning of the term.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Sorry, but this is nuts.  And also racist, in the "let's implement policies that will systematically disadvantage black kids" meaning of the term.
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I clicked through the FOX scare piece to the actual program.  I haven’t read everything yet but the program’s description of its benefits are:

Teachers will learn key tools for engagement that support application of the Toolkit in all learning environments.

Teachers will develop strategies to improve equitable outcomes for Black, Latinx, and Multilingual students in grades 5-9 with instructional templates and strategies designed to dismantle racism in mathematics instruction.

Teachers will join communities of practice that inform ongoing learning and support of new teaching practices.

That seems like worthwhile  training.  On a quick glance I didn’t see any of the stuff you mentioned but I’m sure it’s there somewhere.

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I clicked through the FOX scare piece to the actual program.  I haven’t read everything yet but the program’s description of its benefits are:

Teachers will learn key tools for engagement that support application of the Toolkit in all learning environments.

Teachers will develop strategies to improve equitable outcomes for Black, Latinx, and Multilingual students in grades 5-9 with instructional templates and strategies designed to dismantle racism in mathematics instruction.

Teachers will join communities of practice that inform ongoing learning and support of new teaching practices.

That seems like worthwhile  training.  On a quick glance I didn’t see any of the stuff you mentioned but I’m sure it’s there somewhere.
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Can you give us a few examples of the racism in mathematics instruction that you’re hoping they can dismantle?

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Can you give us a few examples of the racism in mathematics instruction that you’re hoping they can dismantle?
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Likely the word problems that describe situations that disadvantaged students are unlikely to be in. If students have no experience in their cultural surroundings that relate the to context of a word problem, it puts them at a disadvantage. 

 
Here is the teaching guide, in it are things like this:

White supremacy culture shows up in math classrooms when... Grading practices are focused on lack of knowledge. Instead... Grades are traditionally indicative of what students can’t do rather than what they can do, reinforcing perfectionism. In addition, math teachers also focus grades on what is more easily measurable, rather than the knowledge that we want students to have, reinforcing quantity over quality and often evaluating procedural or skills-based knowledge rather than conceptual knowledge. Consider what grades really mean to you, and articulate a plan that is consistent with those values.

• Professional Development: As a department, consider how you would proceed with teaching if no letter grades were to be given. Review alternative ways of grading (standards based, mastery based, A/B no pass, etc.). Emphasize formative assessment.

Professional Development: As a department, review current assessment and grading practices to determine what values are reinforced for the purpose of making grades more purposeful.

• Professional Development: Develop formative assessments that highlight student knowledge rather than deficit knowledge. Consider bringing in experts to help design this.
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In reading the guide, there are some ideas that I could see being good modifications in the way school content is taught regardless of the subject. But I'm having a hard time drawing the overall "racism" and "white supremacy" idea here

 
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glvsav37 said:
Here is the teaching guide, in it are things like this:

In reading the guide, there are some ideas that I could see being good modifications in the way school content is taught regardless of the subject. But I'm having a hard time drawing the overall "racism" and "white supremacy" idea here
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Agreed...there is some racial disadvantages over the years (as mentioned above with word problems)...but both the article and some of the program seem over the top rather than a balanced sensible approach (and reaction to it).

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I clicked through the FOX scare piece to the actual program.  I haven’t read everything yet but the program’s description of its benefits are:

Teachers will learn key tools for engagement that support application of the Toolkit in all learning environments.

Teachers will develop strategies to improve equitable outcomes for Black, Latinx, and Multilingual students in grades 5-9 with instructional templates and strategies designed to dismantle racism in mathematics instruction.

Teachers will join communities of practice that inform ongoing learning and support of new teaching practices.

That seems like worthwhile  training.  On a quick glance I didn’t see any of the stuff you mentioned but I’m sure it’s there somewhere.
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Under the section "dismantling white supremacy in the classroom" in the toolkit.

We see white supremacy can show up in the classroom when the focus is on getting the "right" answer.

Yes they actually put "right" in quotes. 

 
The Z Machine said:
Likely the word problems that describe situations that disadvantaged students are unlikely to be in. If students have no experience in their cultural surroundings that relate the to context of a word problem, it puts them at a disadvantage. 
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Yes because when I was 5 i was out pushing a wheelbarrow of apples around and giving two apples to John and giving 6 apples to Anita. How can the kids that werent out there with wheelbarrows of fruit ever keep up?

 
timschochet said:
If I achieve nothing else in my time in this forum, I at least can know that I helped to create another Sean Hannity viewer. Swell. 
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Let him post about whatever Hannity wants to gaslight his viewers about that particular night, that they will forget about in 3 days, while the majority of the rest of America doesn't even care about.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Yes because when I was 5 i was out pushing a wheelbarrow of apples around and giving two apples to John and giving 6 apples to Anita. How can the kids that werent out there with wheelbarrows of fruit ever keep up?
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Yeah, anyone who thinks word problems depend on prior life experience is missing the point of math.

Also, I don't remember any word problems in geometry. Does that mean geometry doesn't require anti-racist reform?

 
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The Z Machine said:
Likely the word problems that describe situations that disadvantaged students are unlikely to be in. If students have no experience in their cultural surroundings that relate the to context of a word problem, it puts them at a disadvantage. 
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May I please have an example or 2 ?

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
May I please have an example or 2 ?
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Like the whole SAT discrimination within the verbal section and the analogies like "hull:stern" is to "[blank]:[blank]." Inner-city children aren't going to know boats. Stuff like that...

I don't know. I think word problems and implicit racism is a real stretch. Just saw a very interesting tweet from Conor Friedersdorf about schools and political correctness.

2014~ Oh, that's just some far off academic idea in a university course somewhere. Never matter.

2020~ Local school board adopts said idea and implements it to shouts of "not my district" from the left.

Never listen to them. Always resist when it's gobsmackingly wrong. Don't worry if it's your district or somewhere buried at a radical university somewhere, because chances are, it's coming home to roost somewhere.

 
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I will say that being on this board has been really illuminating. Over my eight or nine years here I've been personally assured, countless times, that radical political correctness or civil rights claims were never going to happen, or even better, that those things weren't really what the activists wanted. And time and again, wouldn't you know, those assurances wound up "re-thought" or analogies extended in court cases to where the implementation of these things was inevitable.

It's stupid to listen to these assurances anymore and imperative to fight exactly where stupidities like this exist, at that time, at face value. Because chances are it's moving to you soon, especially in education, which has shown itself marched through by the left as an institution.

 
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Cowboysfan8 said:
How about you, you have an example of one of these problem word problems?
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Off hand...no.  But can you see how cultural differences...economic differences...can lead to different questions being reacted to by different people based on the words used?  The examples used.  There are a ton of studies about bias in standardized testing over the years.  Things have improved...but I would not be shocked if there is still bias there.  As I said though, this seems quite over the top in Oregon.

 
rockaction said:
I will say that being on this board has been really illuminating. Over my eight or nine years here I've been personally assured, countless times, that radical political correctness or civil rights claims were never going to happen, or even better, that those things weren't really what the activists wanted. 
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I don't know if @TobiasFunke is banned or just wandered off, but he was very firmly in the "these are just stupid college kids being stupid and these ideas will never leave campus" side of things.  I've wondered over the years if he ever reconsidered that position.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I don't know if @TobiasFunke is banned or just wandered off, but he was very firmly in the "these are just stupid college kids being stupid and these ideas will never leave campus" side of things.  I've wondered over the years if he ever reconsidered that position.
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I distinctly remember him being largely in that camp, but it was especially regarding speech, which I don't think has gotten too much worse on campuses, and even with a president nearly downright hostile to a free press, we never had speech and prior restraint issues in publications as a major American issue. Yet. So I'm not sure he'd really issue a mea culpa. Social media cancel culture is probably the closest thing we have regarding the inability to speak freely, and that wasn't quite as big when Tobias was on the board. And I don't know what happened to Tobias. He was a lot funnier and dryer than people gave him credit for, and I appreciated his presence. Trump may have tempered his humor, though. I know he was becoming increasingly more angry about the state of things, in politics and on the board. A lot of things changed here after Trump's election in 2016.

 
rockaction said:
I will say that being on this board has been really illuminating. Over my eight or nine years here I've been personally assured, countless times, that radical political correctness or civil rights claims were never going to happen, or even better, that those things weren't really what the activists wanted. And time and again, wouldn't you know, those assurances wound up "re-thought" or analogies extended in court cases to where the implementation of these things was inevitable.

It's stupid to listen to these assurances anymore and imperative to fight exactly where stupidities like this exist, at that time, at face value. Because chances are it's moving to you soon, especially in education, which has shown itself marched through by the left as an institution.
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The assurances were correct and remain so. What you have here are anecdotes, so extreme that the minute they happen they get wild attention and huge backlash and a lot of play in right wing media. But are they representative of real change in our society or something to truly fear? Not even close. 

 
timschochet said:
The assurances were correct and remain so. What you have here are anecdotes, so extreme that the minute they happen they get wild attention and huge backlash and a lot of play in right wing media. But are they representative of real change in our society or something to truly fear? Not even close. 
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Like your assurances that transgendered people didn't want the right to use the opposite sex's bathrooms or be guaranteed rights to have transformative surgery as minors? Those kind of assurances? Because, search function permitting, we could dig that old thread up.

Sometimes, tim, you'd do better with less certainty, especially when there's a primo example of it and the guy I was arguing about it with was you.

 
rockaction said:
I will say that being on this board has been really illuminating. Over my eight or nine years here I've been personally assured, countless times, that radical political correctness or civil rights claims were never going to happen, or even better, that those things weren't really what the activists wanted. And time and again, wouldn't you know, those assurances wound up "re-thought" or analogies extended in court cases to where the implementation of these things was inevitable.

It's stupid to listen to these assurances anymore and imperative to fight exactly where stupidities like this exist, at that time, at face value. Because chances are it's moving to you soon, especially in education, which has shown itself marched through by the left as an institution.
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Oh my gosh, this post is fantastic.  :thumbup:

Now, I know this isn't the thread for it but not only is this current topic a great example, but the "Democratic Socialism" is another.  Far-left ideas that take root anywhere need to be a concern for ALL of us.  The 20th century has proven that.

 
rockaction said:
Like your assurances that transgendered people didn't want the right to use the opposite sex's bathrooms or be guaranteed rights to have transformative surgery as minors? Those kind of assurances? Because, search function permitting, we could dig that old thread up.

Sometimes, tim, you'd do better with less certainty, especially when there's a primo example of it and the guy I was arguing about it with was you.
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I honestly don’t remember. I think what I argued is that there’s not enough transgendered people to make a difference in your life so why does this even bother you? Give them what they want, why not? That’s pretty much how I feel about that issue. 

 
timschochet said:
I honestly don’t remember. I think what I argued is that there’s not enough transgendered people to make a difference in your life so why does this even bother you? Give them what they want, why not? That’s pretty much how I feel about that issue. 
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You argued that it wasn't what they really wanted and, more importantly, you thought that couldn't be what they wanted because it seemed too far out there. I linked right away to the ACLU or other some such group and you conceded, but that just further proves my point about how activism and fringes work.

 
BladeRunner said:
Oh my gosh, this post is fantastic.  :thumbup:

Now, I know this isn't the thread for it but not only is this current topic a great example, but the "Democratic Socialism" is another.  Far-left ideas that take root anywhere need to be a concern for ALL of us.  The 20th century has proven that.
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No. At some point we’re going to have to have a detailed discussion about socialism in the 20th century, it’s differences with communism, and why you’re historically way off base every time you repeat comments like these (and you do it quite often.) it’s simply not accurate at all. I don’t have time for this today but here’s one point for you to consider: by far, so much so that it’s not even close, the biggest opponents of Communist dictatorships in the 20th century were people who you would label “Democratic socialists”. They called themselves Social Democrats (or sometimes just plain Socialists), they were highly progressive, and they stood up to the Soviet Union and against great odds won the Cold War. 

 
timschochet said:
I honestly don’t remember. I think what I argued is that there’s not enough transgendered people to make a difference in your life so why does this even bother you? Give them what they want, why not? That’s pretty much how I feel about that issue. 
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If it's not a big deal then why not just keep the status quo?

The problem Democrats have is they give EVERY SINGLE extreme minority group the same voice.  99.9% of the population should NOT be catering to the .0004%.  It should be the other way around. 

 
rockaction said:
You argued that it wasn't what they really wanted and, more importantly, you thought that couldn't be what they wanted because it seemed too far out there. I linked right away to the ACLU or other some such group and you conceded, but that just further proves my point about how activism and fringes work.
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I’ll take your word for it: it’s always been a minor manner and not indicative of societal changes. 

 
timschochet said:
No. At some point we’re going to have to have a detailed discussion about socialism in the 20th century, it’s differences with communism, and why you’re historically way off base every time you repeat comments like these (and you do it quite often.) it’s simply not accurate at all. I don’t have time for this today but here’s one point for you to consider: by far, so much so that it’s not even close, the biggest opponents of Communist dictatorships in the 20th century were people who you would label “Democratic socialists”. They called themselves Social Democrats (or sometimes just plain Socialists), they were highly progressive, and they stood up to the Soviet Union and against great odds won the Cold War. 
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Yeah, sorry, but it's true.  This is how bad ideas start - guys like you who pretend it's not the same.  It is.  When the call for Socialism didn't work they then had to disguise it as something that sounded more innocuous.  But make no mistake - once they get the foot in the door and they get more power the curtains will be pulled back. 

For example, Ilan Omar was just announced as Vice chair of foreign affairs.  Remember when you guys said "the squad" was harmless?  This is how it starts.

 
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timschochet said:
I’ll take your word for it: it’s always been a minor manner and not indicative of societal changes. 
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Huh. They're predicated on societal changes. That's the nature of the claim to a right. That society must accommodate, like we're seeing in male/female interscholastic sports issues.

 
Blade Runner is advancing an argument I've long advanced, which is that there's an element of majoritarianism that should factor into certain decisions where there is a zero-sum game or something similar. That, essentially, democracy is majoritarian in thrust and that individual liberties can at times be balanced against the greater good, depending on how fundamental their nature is to our existence. To not affront those things which are "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" is probably the best phrase I've heard to describe those rights that must not be abridged ever. Other rights that are secondary should be balanced against majoritarian impulses. Where to draw the line is the issue. I think you're both being too black-and-white about it.

 
rockaction said:
Huh. They're predicated on societal changes. That's the nature of the claim to a right. That society must accommodate, like we're seeing in male/female interscholastic sports issues.
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It seems like we have the same debate about slippery slopes all the time. You take them seriously. I don’t. 

 
timschochet said:
It seems like we have the same debate about slippery slopes all the time. You take them seriously. I don’t. 
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We're not arguing slippery slopes here, really. We're arguing what the nature of a new right is. Society must change to a degree in order to accommodate. I don't think that should be a contentious statement. Slippery slopes are a different issue than what I thought we were arguing.

 
BladeRunner said:
Yeah, sorry, but it's true.  This is how bad ideas start - guys like you who pretend it's not the same.  It is.  When the call for Socialism didn't work they then had to disguise it as something that sounded more innocuous.  But make no mistake - once they get the foot in the door and they get more power the curtains will be pulled back. 

For example, Ilan Omar was just announced as Vice chair of foreign affairs.  Remember when you guys said "the squad" was harmless?  This is how it starts.
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You need to study some history of the 20th century and get back to me. Might I make a recommendation? Modern Times by Paul Johnson. Johnson is a political conservative, no defender of socialism, but he gives a very fair and balanced accounting of what happened. I promise you’ll come away thinking differently about this once you actually find out what happened. 

 
rockaction said:
We're not arguing slippery slopes here, really. We're arguing what the nature of a new right is. Society must change to a degree in order to accommodate. I don't think that should be a contentious statement. Slippery slopes are a different issue than what I thought we were arguing.
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These are not new rights. They are old rights that we didn’t acknowledge before. When schools were desegregated that was not a new right. When women were given the ability to vote that was not a new right. Same for transgendered. 

 
timschochet said:
You need to study some history of the 20th century and get back to me. Might I make a recommendation?  gi. Johnson is a political conservative, no defender of socialism, but he gives a very fair and balanced accounting of what happened. I promise you’ll come away thinking differently about this once you actually find out what happened. 
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I appreciate the recommendation, Tim!  :thumbup:

I'll give it go!  Although, I see it's from the twenties until now.  I think skipping 1900-1920 is an oversight considering the Russian revolution (and the years leading up to that) play a big part.

 
timschochet said:
These are not new rights. They are old rights that we didn’t acknowledge before. When schools were desegregated that was not a new right. When women were given the ability to vote that was not a new right. Same for transgendered. 
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That's simply not true. In all practical senses they were new rights. Whether they were a result of our failure to recognize them from our own universal and abstract principles is what you want to focus on, not the right itself.

 
BladeRunner said:
I appreciate the recommendation, Tim!  :thumbup:

I'll give it go!  Although, I see it's from the twenties until now.  I think skipping 1900-1920 is an oversight considering the Russian revolution (and the years leading up to that) play a big part.
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The title is deceptive. He actually begins with Einstein’s theory of relativity and there is a whole chapter devoted to the Russian Revolution (which happens to be, IMO, the best chapter in the entire book and some of the best writing on Lenin that I’ve ever read.) Enjoy! 

 
rockaction said:
That's simply not true. In all practical senses they were new rights. Whether they were a result of our failure to recognize them from our own universal and abstract principles is what you want to focus on, not the right itself.
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Well we’re having a semantical argument. I don’t want to waste time on that. I’ll concede to your language. My point is that if they’re based on our already held principles they don’t threaten any fundamental changes to our society. 

 
1.  I want to get back to racist math later but I’ve been running around and I want to at least skim through the program to get a better sense of what I think of it.  

2.  I’m kinda in between @rockactionand @timschochet on fringe ideas growing in power over time.  Obviously it happens and we’ve just essentially seen the takeover of one of the two major parties by what would once have been thought to be fringe ideas. But I don’t think it’s fair to say every fringe idea is a threat - some fringe ideas stay fringe forever.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
2.  I’m kinda in between @rockactionand @timschochet on fringe ideas growing in power over time.  Obviously it happens and we’ve just essentially seen the takeover of one of the two major parties by what would once have been thought to be fringe ideas. But I don’t think it’s fair to say every fringe idea is a threat - some fringe ideas stay fringe forever.
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I don't disagree with any of that. Some things on the fringe stay very fringe. It just seems that certain institutions have a habit of turning out radical notions that eventually come up for adoption because those institutions influence other walks of life to take up the cause, especially in education. Like universities, school boards, and racist math. 

One could also point to the outrageous Texas curriculum (I remember reading stories about the ridiculousness of their books) as an example of this coming from the right and fringe history influencing school boards, too. It doesn't just necessarily turn left, as your point about the fringe of one party essentially taking it over shows.

 
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timschochet said:
The assurances were correct and remain so. What you have here are anecdotes, so extreme that the minute they happen they get wild attention and huge backlash and a lot of play in right wing media. But are they representative of real change in our society or something to truly fear? Not even close. 
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I too would rather steer things away from transgender issues because I feel like 95% of the disagreement there is over trivial stuff like sports.  When it comes to racial issues, you couldn't be more wrong.  The race-must-be-central-to-everything school of thought has existed for a while, but it was mostly just a fringe as recently as this time last year.  If you haven't noticed that viewpoint asserting itself in the mainstream since this summer, you haven't been paying attention.

 
Nex episode of tonight on Hannity...

Why isn't the penis just called a large ########?

Answer: because human biases shape scientific knowledge, and much of what we know about our nether regions has been shaped by lazy, antiquated stereotypes about what men and women are. 

Brought to you by the good doctor Marci Bowers quoted in an opinion piece in Scientific American.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I too would rather steer things away from transgender issues because I feel like 95% of the disagreement there is over trivial stuff like sports.  When it comes to racial issues, you couldn't be more wrong.  The race-must-be-central-to-everything school of thought has existed for a while, but it was mostly just a fringe as recently as this time last year.  If you haven't noticed that viewpoint asserting itself in the mainstream since this summer, you haven't been paying attention.
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You’re raising a VERY complicated issue. I disagree with you (emphatically? Totally? Delightfully?) but to explain why would take a long discussion and while I’d love nothing more I have no time for it today. Let’s take a rain check on this.

 
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