Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

2021 NFL Free Agency Thread


Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I never look at this way, I just don't think it's a win for any RB that they signed Fournette because they MIGHT have drafted a RB. I just now they signed Fournette and it's not good.

Also I disagree on Jones. I think he's a legit #1 who has improved every year.

I don't see it that way...they were going to add another RB, that is a definite...I would much rather go with devil you know than the devil you don't...you now have a very good idea what ROJO is all about instead of a stud rookie showing up and knocking him down...as for ROJO, I like him, he's a quality RB but I don't ever see him being given the keys to the car...he can be the lead dog in some form of RBBC but unless there is an injury I don't see a team committing to him as a true #1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Boston said:

I don't see it that way...they were going to add another RB, that is a definite...I would much rather go with devil you know than the devil you don't...you now have a very good idea what ROJO is all about instead of a stud rookie showing up and knocking him down...as for ROJO, I like him, he's a quality RB but I don't ever see him being given the keys to the car...he can be the lead dog in some form of RBBC but unless there is an injury I don't see a team committing to him as a true #1.

Maybe but that's a long way away from assuming they would add one in round one and none of those RB's you mentioned will be around in round 2.

ROJO has eye opening explosion, runs with power and speed, has improved every year, put up over 5 YPC last year and was just 23. I think he's a stud two down back, and I"m not using that word lightly, and only think holding him back is the mental mistakes and holding onto the ball. But I like that kid, like the way he puts in the work and seems to keep improving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Maybe but that's a long way away from assuming they would add one in round one and none of those RB's you mentioned will be around in round 2.

ROJO has eye opening explosion, runs with power and speed, has improved every year, put up over 5 YPC last year and was just 23. I think he's a stud two down back, and I"m not using that word lightly, and only think holding him back is the mental mistakes and holding onto the ball. But I like that kid, like the way he puts in the work and seems to keep improving.

No it's not a long way, it was a possibility because there was zero doubt they were adding another RB whether it was thru trade, FA or the draft and since it appears they are leery of going all in on Jones it could have been much worse than adding Fournette...as for Jones there is no doubt he has talent but right now he is entering his fourth year and while there is always a chance he could go the next level I am not willing to project that...mental mistakes and ball security are things that if they are going to get corrected should be corrected after three years in the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Boston said:

No it's not a long way, it was a possibility because there was zero doubt they were adding another RB whether it was thru trade, FA or the draft and since it appears they are leery of going all in on Jones it could have been much worse than adding Fournette...as for Jones there is no doubt he has talent but right now he is entering his fourth year and while there is always a chance he could go the next level I am not willing to project that...mental mistakes and ball security are things that if they are going to get corrected should be corrected after three years in the league.

Please note the difference between drafting a RB in round one and drafting a RB later.

And we'll agree to disagree that they are not not fully bought in on ROJO or how we both feel about his potential.

Edited by menobrown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Please note the difference between drafting a RB in round one and drafting a RB later.

And we'll agree to disagree that they are not not fully bought in on ROJO or how we both feel about his potential.

Yes...I did note it...as I said from the beginning...Tampa taking a RB with their first has been a projection (not a fact) and that not happening is a win for Jones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Adam Schefter

@AdamSchefter

3h

Veteran QB Chase Daniel is signing a one-year deal with the Chargers, per source. Deal has $1.5 million in guarantees remaining from his contract with the Lions. Daniel reunites with his former coaches Brandon Staley and Joe Lombardi and will mentor Rookie-of-Year Justin Herbert.

Chase Daniel continues his get paid millions by every team in the league to hold a clipboard tour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

Chase Daniel continues his get paid millions by every team in the league to hold a clipboard tour.

You made me look it up :) 

 

 

Washington Redskins (2009) [practice squad]

New Orleans Saints (2009–2012)

Kansas City Chiefs (2013–2015)

Philadelphia Eagles (2016)

New Orleans Saints (2017)

Chicago Bears (2018–2019)

Detroit Lions (2020)

Los Angeles Chargers (2021-present)

 

8 teams = 1/4 of the league. Nice. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with menobrown on Jones II and agree with Boston. Jones got a 27 grade from PFF in the passing game. That's out of a hundred. You're not seeing the field, even on early downs, with a performance like that as Brady's RB. You just won't be there. His explosiveness in the run game is better than Fournette's, and something I also noticed, but they just signed Fournette to starter money. Jones's contract is up after this year and he's a free agent in 2022. This had to be his year for he and TB, really. They're going to move on, in my opinion.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a Jones owner in a few dynasty leagues was definitely bummed about the Fournette signing. Jones ran hard last year and looked like the better back the majority of the year. Although Fournette obviously had a great playoff run. I would assume its safe to remove the Bucs from the RB in the 1st round talk now at least. 

Edited by ffmail4me
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, rockaction said:

I disagree with menobrown on Jones II and agree with Boston. Jones got a 27 grade from PFF in the passing game. That's out of a hundred. You're not seeing the field, even on early downs, with a performance like that as Brady's RB. You just won't be there. His explosiveness in the run game is better than Fournette's, and something I also noticed, but they just signed Fournette to starter money. Jones's contract is up after this year and he's a free agent in 2022. This had to be his year for he and TB, really. They're going to move on, in my opinion.

A one year deal for up to $4m ain't starter money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, rockaction said:

I disagree with menobrown on Jones II and agree with Boston. Jones got a 27 grade from PFF in the passing game. That's out of a hundred. You're not seeing the field, even on early downs, with a performance like that as Brady's RB. You just won't be there. His explosiveness in the run game is better than Fournette's, and something I also noticed, but they just signed Fournette to starter money. Jones's contract is up after this year and he's a free agent in 2022. This had to be his year for he and TB, really. They're going to move on, in my opinion.

Yup. Horrible hands. Can’t pass block either. Better pure runner than Leonard which makes it frustrating but you can’t play a guy every down with his deficiencies. 
 

As Leonard and RoJo are free agents after this year, I still expect the Bucs to draft a back sometime in the first 3 rounds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

A one year deal for up to $4m ain't starter money.

The length of the deal isn't starter in nature, but see how it relates to Jones's contract status, too. I think if you look at the starting RBs and their contracts, you'll find Fournette's price is about on the low-to-near-median cusp of starter money. It's about 1.1 million more than Mostert will be getting in SF, about two million less than Carson in Seattle. I would guess the median starting salary of running backs is about five million.

 

Edited by rockaction
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Capella said:

As Leonard and RoJo are free agents after this year, I still expect the Bucs to draft a back sometime in the first 3 rounds. 

You've pretty much been spot-on about everything, but what about Ke'Shawn? They just drafted him.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, rockaction said:

The length of the deal isn't starter in nature, but see how it relates to Jones's contract status, too. I think if you look at the starting RBs and their contracts, you'll find Fournette's price is about on the low-to-near-average cusp of starter money. It's about 1.1 million more than Mostert will be getting in SF, about two million less than Carson in Seattle. I would guess the median starting salary of running backs is about five million.

 

It isn't meaningfully different than what Mike Davis just signed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Capella said:

Yup. Horrible hands. Can’t pass block either. Better pure runner than Leonard which makes it frustrating but you can’t play a guy every down with his deficiencies. 
 

As Leonard and RoJo are free agents after this year, I still expect the Bucs to draft a back sometime in the first 3 rounds. 

Yep, similar to what Green Bay did last year. Although maybe this Bay won't be quite so dumb and opt to prioritize a vet RB to C this time next year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MAC_32 said:

Sure it is. That's the market price for RB's expected to share the load. 

Fournette is getting paid top 15 money. That's the market. He might share the load, but there were people arguing that Jones would be the starter. That's what I was arguing against. Of course Jones will have a big role. He did last year and will continue to. Fournette isn't somebody to hang your hat on as a bell cow, but he's getting starter money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MAC_32 said:

Ke'Shawn was a mistake. 

Probably so. I'm not hanging my hat on Ke'Shawn Vaughn's talent. He's a middling back, at best. Was in college. The only reason he jumped into the first round of fantasy drafts was because the Bucs took him and RoJo was the only thing in his way. Which lets one know a lot about RoJo and the Bucs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Fournette is getting paid top 15 money. That's the market. He might share the load, but there were people arguing that Jones would be the starter. That's what I was arguing against. Of course Jones will have a big role. He did last year and will continue to. Fournette isn't somebody to hang your hat on as a bell cow, but he's getting starter money.

C'mon, Rock. You're comparing him to guys on fixed rookie contracts and other veterans that clearly aren't starting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, rockaction said:

Probably so. I'm not hanging my hat on Ke'Shawn Vaughn's talent. He's a middling back, at best. Was in college. The only reason he jumped into the first round of fantasy drafts was because the Bucs took him and RoJo was the only thing in his way. Which lets one know a lot about RoJo and the Bucs.

Those who picked him round one last year also made a mistake. Like you said, he's an ordinary player. There's a time and a place to prioritize ordinary players in potentially good situations, but round one in that crop ain't it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MAC_32 said:

C'mon, Rock. You're comparing him to guys on fixed rookie contracts and other veterans that clearly aren't starting. 

I know what I'm comparing him to, Mac. I'm well aware of that. You said it wasn't starter money. I said he's in the top 15. I know there are guys below that are making 1.7 million (Jonathan Taylor) that are below him simply because of service time and the CBA. But Tampa knows that, too. They're paying him top dollar to play there. He's going to have a big role. I doubt Jones starts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, rockaction said:

You've pretty much been spot-on about everything, but what about Ke'Shawn? They just drafted him.

I don’t think they like him. Bringing Fournette back means to me he will likely be the third down guy again, which is pretty much the only conceivable role Vaughn could have had. 
 

*Leonard being a third down guy, and also 1st and second every other series or whatever. But Leonard will have most of the passing downs. 

Edited by Capella
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

Those who picked him round one last year also made a mistake. Like you said, he's an ordinary player. There's a time and a place to prioritize ordinary players in potentially good situations, but round one in that crop ain't it. 

Nope. It's not. I'm in total agreement and not with just hindsight's benefit. I wouldn't have taken him even a round-plus later in the draft. There were other guys that were better, in my estimation, at other positions to where the value was with them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I know what I'm comparing him to, Mac. I'm well aware of that. You said it wasn't starter money. I said he's in the top 15. I know there are guys below that are making 1.7 million (Jonathan Taylor) that are below him simply because of service time and the CBA. But Tampa knows that, too. They're paying him top dollar to play there. He's going to have a big role. I doubt Jones starts.

It's a committee contract. He's going to form a committee with Jones.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MAC_32 said:

It's a committee contract. He's going to form a committee with Jones.

More than likely they go 2-for-1 in series stuff. That still leaves a starter. Who will get the bulk of the touches and third-down work? Fournette, likely.

I guess you can haggle about it being a committee contract. But it's starter money. I went back and looked. Of the guys ahead of him in contracts, only three don't start. Giovani Bernard, Latavius Murray, and Kareem Hunt, who just signed last year and plays a huge role on your favorite team. Murray also plays a huge role on his. Bernard I have no idea about, but the rest of the guys are bona fide, flat out, starters. That's 11 out of 15, not including Fournette among the eleven. Tell me what it looks like then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t think there’s any determination of “starter money” any more with RBs unless it’s a huge contract - which are becoming fewer and fewer. A lot of decent RBs are being signed for cheap because that’s the market - each situation has to be viewed independently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong column. He's even further up there than my argument supposed. He makes top thirteen money. That is, only twelve guys make what he makes. In all of football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, rockaction said:

More than likely they go 2-for-1 in series stuff. That still leaves a starter. Who will get the bulk of the touches and third-down work? Fournette, likely.

I guess you can haggle about it being a committee contract. But it's starter money. I went back and looked. Of the guys ahead of him in contracts, only three don't start. Giovani Bernard, Latavius Murray, and Kareem Hunt, who just signed last year and plays a huge role on your favorite team. Murray also plays a huge role on his. Bernard I have no idea about, but the rest of the guys are bona fide, flat out, starters. That's 11 out of 15, not including Fournette among the eleven. Tell me what it looks like then.

You scrolled to the vet contracts about a $1m or so above him, but not below. That's his tier and I don't think this is any more complicated than that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drafting Vaughn and signing Fournette (last year) said everything that needed to be said about how they felt about Rojo, IMO. Still, I thought Rojo made big strides last year and was sort of hoping he'd finally run with this gig if they didn't bring Fournette back. He is still only 23, though.

I was kind of shocked last year that they didn't take a premier RB in the draft, and I feel like the biggest reason is that they simply didn't/don't want to pair Brady and their Super Bowl window with a rookie. Resigning Fournette might be the final dagger in Jones for me. 

I don't think Vaughn was a mistake and that he could still carve a little role here. He got covid right off the bat in the preseason last year and didn't get the reps to even attempt to win a bigger role. He did get on the field a little later in the season and looked alright to me, obviously in very limited fashion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should say I have no vested interest in Leonard Fournette being the starter. I tossed off that he was making starter money and the tangent/argument followed. I agree with Zamboni, really. And Mac. One year at four million means they're not committed long-term to these guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MAC_32 said:

...and all this is assuming his contract incentives are easy to attain and he really will earn $4m. Have those been made available for public consumption? 

It's 3.25 million dollars guaranteed. So that leaves $750,000 in bonus money. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I should say I have no vested interest in Leonard Fournette being the starter. I tossed off that he was making starter money and the tangent/argument followed. I agree with Zamboni, really. And Mac. One year at four million means they're not committed long-term to these guys.

Which is why Vaughn *could* become relevant, but also why drafting a RB wouldn't have been crazy if they hadn't resigned Fournette. But since Brady prefers washed up vets (hey if it works who am I to complain?), I figured this was the most likely scenario. Bring the band back, don't rock the boat, #### rookies. 

Edited by barackdhouse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

They gave Fournette an insignificant amount of money. 

Johnny Hekker is set to make $3.8m this season. A punter. 

You're picking the best punter out of the bunch. I'll also bet punters have a higher average median salary than running backs, who limp in at about 1.5 million dollars.

eta* It's close. The 14th highest paid punter makes 1.4 million dollars. I think the true median is around $900,000, but there are only so many punters.

Edited by rockaction
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, rockaction said:

You're picking the best punter out of the bunch. I'll also bet punters have a higher average median salary than running backs, who limp in at about 1.5 million dollars.

Okay. If he hits all his incentives he'll make as much as the kicker does on his own team. And that guy's the 10th highest paid kicker. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Andy Dufresne said:

They gave Fournette an insignificant amount of money. 

 

True, but probably that’s because they could after the market dried up. I don’t see the money as an indication of how they will use Fournette vis-a-vis Jones, just an asset they like (who knows how much) and were able to get at a cheap price. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, rockaction said:

It's 3.25 million dollars guaranteed. So that leaves $750,000 in bonus money. 

The RFA tag Baltimore gave Gus Edwards is more in gtd money. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, zamboni said:

True, but probably that’s because they could after the market dried up. I don’t see the money as an indication of how they will use Fournette vis-a-vis Jones, just an asset they like (who knows how much) and were able to get at a cheap price. 

I'm translating "starter" as "bell cow". They didn't make any significant investment into him that indicates that they view him as THE guy. The situation will be muddled like it was last year. Fournette will look like The Guy for a week or two and then Jones will take his turn. Lather, rinse, repeat.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, zamboni said:

True, but probably that’s because they could after the market dried up. I don’t see the money as an indication of how they will use Fournette vis-a-vis Jones, just an asset they like (who knows how much) and were able to get at a cheap price. 

I think we're now arguing salary in isolation because I admittedly said he was making "starter money." It was an exacting but valid point.

Edited by rockaction
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Drafting Vaughn and signing Fournette (last year) said everything that needed to be said about how they felt about Rojo, IMO. Still, I thought Rojo made big strides last year and was sort of hoping he'd finally run with this gig if they didn't bring Fournette back. He is still only 23, though.

I was kind of shocked last year that they didn't take a premier RB in the draft, and I feel like the biggest reason is that they simply didn't/don't want to pair Brady and their Super Bowl window with a rookie. Resigning Fournette might be the final dagger in Jones for me. 

I don't think Vaughn was a mistake and that he could still carve a little role here. He got covid right off the bat in the preseason last year and didn't get the reps to even attempt to win a bigger role. He did get on the field a little later in the season and looked alright to me, obviously in very limited fashion. 

I agreed he looked explosive. Covid and no rookie/summer camps likely killed him from the start. He did have a really impressive touchdown against the chargers - it was an impressive catch and a hell of a run — so maybe he shows more this summer, but bringing Leonard back tells me that they aren’t counting on it. 

Edited by Capella
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I'm translating "starter" as "bell cow". They didn't make any significant investment into him that indicates that they view him as THE guy. The situation will be muddled like it was last year. Fournette will look like The Guy for a week or two and then Jones will take his turn. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Nobody was arguing Fournette was going to be the bell cow. Boston was arguing against RoJo being the starter on the team and I agreed with him. I should have left it at that instead of a salary breakdown.

Jones ain't starting. Fournette is. Is he making "starter money"? Probably not, but that's sort of pulling out one reason of four that might have been inaccurate and making it the centerpiece of the argument here.

Fournette's gonna start and be part of a rotation. We know that because that's how they were used last year once Ronald Jones got hurt.

Jones, IMO, is the better runner, like I said upthread, but his hands and blocking are going to keep him off of the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I guess I don't know what the argument is then. If you want to say that Fournette is at the top of the Bucs' depth chart, I won't argue. But who cares? It's like making a depth chart out of the Three Stooges. 

I guess that makes Vaughn Curly Joe at this stage.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...