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“Cancel Culture” and “Woke”


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That was way too long a post.  Gordon Gekko is looking at that and wondering why I couldn't tighten it up a little.

Cancelling an awards show might be the best thing ever to emerge from the woke movement.  If they cancel the Oscars, I might become pro-woke.

Right-wingers do something dumb: "Look at those right-wingers.  What a bunch of dummies." Progressives do something dumb: "Look at those right-wingers complaining about that thing we did.  What a

Replaced with?

Freaks and Geeks

FOH!!!

Edited by djmich
to note i am referring to the population of humans as freaks and geeks not any specific subset
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3 hours ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Read the article and very well aware of that. As I mentioned in my last post, I certainly wouldn’t consider that a punishment. Someone realizing what they said was ignorant, wanting to learn from it and taking action to do so is fantastic and exactly the attitude people should have in situations like this.

I think it's way too much.

To go farther, I'd say that any therapist that would feed into her overly-critical and perfectionistic self talk would be doing her a disservice. People that identify with cancel culture are not only unfair to others, they're unfair to themselves. It's a huge mental health problem. 

Edited by Westerberg
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13 minutes ago, Westerberg said:

I think it's way too much.

To go farther, I'd say that any therapist that would feed into her overly-critical and perfectionistic self talk would be doing her a disservice. People that identify with cancel culture are not only unfair to others, they're unfair to themselves. It's a huge mental health problem. 

This is a good point, and it's tangential to one my problems with social media dogpiling even for things that seem pretty bad by universal standards.  Think of the worst thing you've ever done or said - would you want it to be broadcast to the world for you to be judged on it?  I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that for a large amount of people, it is psychologically damaging to be a victim of mob opprobrium.  I doubt going to a professional to help "re-educate" yourself is the proper response, though. 

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

Wife works for a fortune 500 company.

That just had a meeting about diversity and inclusion. They were given a list of things to no longer say.

"Ladies and Gentlemen"

"Nice to see you"

lol. 

Do they give reasons why this is could be taken the wrong way now? 

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25 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

What's your problem with the deceased?  Why are you othering them?

My therapist keeps telling me i need to put in the work more regarding otherance. I will see if she can step up the treatments. 

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27 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Blind people cant see. 

ladies and gentlemen is exclusionary. 

I am dead serious. 

There many blind people at the company?

We had a guy working for us that had a farming accident that effected his left hand an messed it up.  I know not everybody does, but he had a great sense of humor about it and would fake outrage if somebody asked him if he needed a hand with something.  :lol:  and then joke about it with them.   I am sure that phrase would be something for the list too.  

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

There many blind people at the company?

We had a guy working for us that had a farming accident that effected his left hand an messed it up.  I know not everybody does, but he had a great sense of humor about it and would fake outrage if somebody asked him if he needed a hand with something.  :lol:  and then joke about it with them.   I am sure that phrase would be something for the list too.  

That's the funny thing about this sort of stuff.  Typically most people are relatively well adjusted and can take these sorts of things in stride.  The guy with a messed up hand knows he's an outlier.  The woman who had a miscarriage knows that the people wishing her "happy mother's day" aren't trying to be cruel.  A Jewish person knows that most people celebrate Christmas.  It seems like the people who most push to eliminate anything potentially "othering" always do so on behalf of other people.  They seem to see themselves as some self-appointed avatar for protecting other people from the turbulence of the world. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

That's the funny thing about this sort of stuff.  Typically most people are relatively well adjusted and can take these sorts of things in stride.  The guy with a messed up hand knows he's an outlier.  The woman who had a miscarriage knows that the people wishing her "happy mother's day" aren't trying to be cruel.  A Jewish person knows that most people celebrate Christmas.  It seems like the people who most push to eliminate anything potentially "othering" always do so on behalf of other people.  They seem to see themselves as some self-appointed avatar for protecting other people from the turbulence of the world. 

Just like I posted in the other thread, we need take intent into consideration a lot more. something common like "see you later" shouldn't offend too many people, and probably not even all blind people.  now, maybe if someone politely asks you not to and you continue to do so...  

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Do they give reasons why this is could be taken the wrong way now? 

I feel like the kid raising his hand in class because I know the answer...some people don't identify as either one of those (lady or gentleman)? 

I remember reading somewhere that "folks" was preferred to ladies and gentlemen.

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Just like I posted in the other thread, we need take intent into consideration a lot more. something common like "see you later" shouldn't offend too many people, and probably not even all blind people.  now, maybe if someone politely asks you not to and you continue to do so...  

I'm not changing my language patterns to fit someone else's view of the world.  Particularly something completely innocuous like this that has to be twisted like a pretzel to find a victim in it.

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4 minutes ago, djmich said:

I feel like the kid raising his hand in class because I know the answer...some people don't identify as either one of those (lady or gentleman)? 

I remember reading somewhere that "folks" was preferred to ladies and gentlemen.

That one I got.  The "nice to see you" was tripping me up when I asked.  

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2 minutes ago, Sand said:

I'm not changing my language patterns to fit someone else's view of the world.  Particularly something completely innocuous like this that has to be twisted like a pretzel to find a victim in it.

Your company changing a policy aside, you are saying that if you worked with a blind person who asked you not to say that you wouldn't stop saying that to or around them?  (In this made up example...) 

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

Your company changing a policy aside, you are saying that if you worked with a blind person who asked you not to say that you wouldn't stop saying that to or around them?  (In this made up example...) 

Absolutely not.  That's a ridiculous request to make.

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7 minutes ago, Sand said:

Absolutely not.  That's a ridiculous request to make.

Gotcha.  That's where we will disagree then.   I get a company changing a policy or forcing that, but I can think of reasons that people would ask someone to stop.  

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4 hours ago, Westerberg said:

I think it's way too much.

To go farther, I'd say that any therapist that would feed into her overly-critical and perfectionistic self talk would be doing her a disservice. People that identify with cancel culture are not only unfair to others, they're unfair to themselves. It's a huge mental health problem. 

I agree going to a therapist is a bit over the top but I see nothing wrong with educating yourself to become more aware on why things can be offensive and how history shapes some of the inequalities that we see today.
 

I think there are a lot of people who need a serious lesson on some recent history. I say that as a well educated person who was not aware of things like the Jim Crow Laws, GI Bill and the Tulsa massacre up until a year or two ago, a few years after I had already graduated college. I promise you there are plenty of other people who have no idea about these things which leaves them without sooooo much context on why things are the way they are today.

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4 hours ago, Dr_Zaius said:

That's the funny thing about this sort of stuff.  Typically most people are relatively well adjusted and can take these sorts of things in stride.  The guy with a messed up hand knows he's an outlier.  The woman who had a miscarriage knows that the people wishing her "happy mother's day" aren't trying to be cruel.  A Jewish person knows that most people celebrate Christmas.  It seems like the people who most push to eliminate anything potentially "othering" always do so on behalf of other people.  They seem to see themselves as some self-appointed avatar for protecting other people from the turbulence of the world. 

this is correct - at heart, it's the same type of church lady mentality that used to find its true calling crusading against the dangers of heavy metal and Dungeons and Dragons. They're the people who know what's best for you whether you like it or not.

having grown up the son of a Deep South Evangelical preacher, it's incredibly weird and somewhat scary to see the religious parallels with this stuff.

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Gotcha.  That's where we will disagree then.   I get a company changing a policy or forcing that, but I can think of reasons that people would ask someone to stop.  

We all know of very common insulting things that aren't socially acceptable.  Those are one thing.  On the other hand if someone takes offense at something completely innocuous like "I'll see you later" to a blind person, than that's enabling co-dependent behavior.  And it's silly.  

Of course, in that case, I'd be able to get away with rolling my eyes and flipping them off before leaving.

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1 minute ago, Sand said:

We all know of very common insulting things that aren't socially acceptable.  Those are one thing.  On the other hand if someone takes offense at something completely innocuous like "I'll see you later" to a blind person, than that's enabling co-dependent behavior.  And it's silly.  

Of course, in that case, I'd be able to get away with rolling my eyes and flipping them off before leaving.

🤣 at bolded.

I mean I want to be understanding and feel like I am on a pretty far side of not saying things that might be taken the wrong way...but JFC are we proposing creating an environment were words like see, heavy, thin, weak, loose....a ####### million words will eventually be taken as an insult to someone? 

The word see?  Really?

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Your company changing a policy aside, you are saying that if you worked with a blind person who asked you not to say that you wouldn't stop saying that to or around them?  (In this made up example...) 

To them, yes. Around them, no.

It is a dumb request and whoever would make such a request is not somebody I would cater to. 

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8 minutes ago, Sand said:

We all know of very common insulting things that aren't socially acceptable.  Those are one thing.  On the other hand if someone takes offense at something completely innocuous like "I'll see you later" to a blind person, than that's enabling co-dependent behavior.  And it's silly.  

Of course, in that case, I'd be able to get away with rolling my eyes and flipping them off before leaving.

 

1 minute ago, djmich said:

🤣 at bolded.

I mean I want to be understanding and feel like I am on a pretty far side of not saying things that might be taken the wrong way...but JFC are we proposing creating an environment were words like see, heavy, thin, weak, loose....a ####### million words will eventually be taken as an insult to someone? 

The word see?  Really?

That's cool, I guess I have a bigger threshold for that is all.  I could see somebody just adjusting to an injury or disease not having a sense of humor about stuff.   Again, my example was that person politely asking me not to do that.  I figure if it bothers them that much to ask, and it's not hurting me any to try to stop, why not? :shrug:     Like I said, to me that isn't the same thing as a company pre-emptively handing out a list of words and phrases to not use anymore.     

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

To them, yes. Around them, no.

It is a dumb request and whoever would make such a request is not somebody I would cater to. 

A very fair distinction - thanks.  

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

I figure if it bothers them that much to ask, and it's not hurting me any to try to stop, why not? :shrug:  

I guess this is like pornography.  I can't define a request being ridiculous, but I'll know it when I see it.  

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

 

That's cool, I guess I have a bigger threshold for that is all.  I could see somebody just adjusting to an injury or disease not having a sense of humor about stuff.   Again, my example was that person politely asking me not to do that.  I figure if it bothers them that much to ask, and it's not hurting me any to try to stop, why not? :shrug:     Like I said, to me that isn't the same thing as a company pre-emptively handing out a list of words and phrases to not use anymore.     

Who is making a joke out of it...it is a basic word.  Of course I'm not going to ask the blind dude if he saw Seinfeld last night

But for me to not say in their presence I saw Seinfeld or I see them?

If they ask me to not say something I'm going to not try to...but that doesn't mean its not silly.  And now you have a workplace with people set up to feel like sight supremacists (see what I did there lol) when they accidently use common words.   

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8 minutes ago, djmich said:

Who is making a joke out of it...it is a basic word.  Of course I'm not going to ask the blind dude if he saw Seinfeld last night

But for me to not say in their presence I saw Seinfeld or I see them?

If they ask me to not say something I'm going to not try to...but that doesn't mean its not silly.  And now you have a workplace with people set up to feel like sight supremacists (see what I did there lol) when they accidently use common words.   

Again, a good distinction.  In my mind I was talking about directly to them, not around them.  I get that you guys are coming at it from a different direction in that nobody in the office can say those words and phrases to anybody else, and agreed - that is where I would take more issue with it.  

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25 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

 

That's cool, I guess I have a bigger threshold for that is all.  I could see somebody just adjusting to an injury or disease not having a sense of humor about stuff.   Again, my example was that person politely asking me not to do that.  I figure if it bothers them that much to ask, and it's not hurting me any to try to stop, why not? :shrug:     Like I said, to me that isn't the same thing as a company pre-emptively handing out a list of words and phrases to not use anymore.     

that's a fair and considerate response. For me, whether I'd acquiesce to the request would depend on my respect for the person and/or their reason for asking, but it still seems like a weird and controlling thing to ask. In my experience the type of people that ask things like that generally end up being more trouble than they're worth.

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SM is littered with these types of people who will make it their mission to destroy you for a post or response they don't like. I've seen detectives that do less work trying to solve cases. 

I'm not saying that in this case, the post they are reacting too and looking to "cancel" was the smartest post in the world to write, but (as a fellow sarcastic person) sometimes posts are written to be funny and it does not come across as such typed out. IDK, but these folks are all over SM, esp TikTok and they can be vicious put bulls if they see something they don't like. 

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10 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

 

That's cool, I guess I have a bigger threshold for that is all.  I could see somebody just adjusting to an injury or disease not having a sense of humor about stuff.   

It's not about having a sense of humor.  I would never crack a joke about blindness around a blind person.

What we're talking about in this example is just asking people to have a basic understanding of how language works.  "See you later" is an idiom that isn't meant to be taken literally, everybody knows isn't meant to be taken literally, and nobody takes literally.  The imaginary person who gets upset over this expression -- and I use the term "imaginary" deliberately because I don't really think such a person exists or that I'm likely every to encounter them if they do -- is just being a pedant.  Nobody likes people like that, and for good reason.

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36 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

It's not about having a sense of humor.  I would never crack a joke about blindness around a blind person.

What we're talking about in this example is just asking people to have a basic understanding of how language works.  "See you later" is an idiom that isn't meant to be taken literally, everybody knows isn't meant to be taken literally, and nobody takes literally.  The imaginary person who gets upset over this expression -- and I use the term "imaginary" deliberately because I don't really think such a person exists or that I'm likely every to encounter them if they do -- is just being a pedant.  Nobody likes people like that, and for good reason.

Good post as well.  I Possum also brought up, it's probably not the type of person you want to interact with much anyway, and honestly I would probably avoid talking to them altogether.  

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Good post as well.  I Possum also brought up, it's probably not the type of person you want to interact with much anyway, and honestly I would probably avoid talking to them altogether.  

Those people are so much fun at a ice cream social, probably can’t wait to tell you they are lactose intolerant. 

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59 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

I agree going to a therapist is a bit over the top but I see nothing wrong with educating yourself to become more aware on why things can be offensive and how history shapes some of the inequalities that we see today.
 

I think there are a lot of people who need a serious lesson on some recent history. I say that as a well educated person who was not aware of things like the Jim Crow Laws, GI Bill and the Tulsa massacre up until a year or two ago, a few years after I had already graduated college. I promise you there are plenty of other people who have no idea about these things which leaves them without sooooo much context on why things are the way they are today.

I absolutely agree. I think the question to ask is whether or not the response is bringing more compassion into the world. The Dr. Seuss thing, I would say yes. Vindictively ruining someone's career, no. I think that we can apply this same logic when evaluating our own behavior and attitudes. Some folks for sure have a ways to go in that regard.

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7 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

 

Quote

Now the Middleton High community was trying to make sense of the decision by Tampa police Chief Brian Dugan to fire White, who is Black, for using the racial slur.

I was really hoping that school principal or some other main character would be a White guy named Mr. Black.  Larry David would have added that extra flourish, and that's what separates great comedy writers from the mediocre.

 

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6 minutes ago, massraider said:

What do you think would happen if Jay Leno gets cancelled?  Would he get fired from the job he's been retired from?  

He'd laugh and drive off in one of his thousand cars.    white privilege!

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43 minutes ago, djmich said:

Only jokes left will be about white guys.  Maybe animals too, but they get PETA to go to bat.

Then people around here will be doubly upset - now not only are all the headlines about white guys, but so are the jokes!  ;) 

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15 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Not convinced it’s even a word, Apple tried to change the word.

They added "supposably" to the dictionary. SUPPOSABLY! Makes me want to break things.

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49 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

https://www.rollcall.com/2021/03/23/duckworth-to-vote-no-on-non-diverse-biden-nominees/

 

Only a "small" faction.  Nothing to worry about.   You guys are making mountains out of molehills.

Wow.  I mean sure...why not a little reverse discrimination.  I mean it doesn't really count anyway

Examples of one person is still not a majority opinion.   

I scanned the article but didn't see reasoning.   If people are trying to have our government a representative mix of our country, I can understand that.  

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