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“Cancel Culture” and “Woke”


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14 hours ago, matttyl said:

There is at least one Seinfeld episode they don’t air anymore as it’s seen as offensive - the one with the wooden smoking Indian. There may be others.  

My wife and I are watching 30 Rock now. There’s a couple episodes missing off Netflix. Amazing within a 15 year window how things have changed. 

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21 hours ago, supermike80 said:

I've never seen either show.  My extent of sitcoms is when I'm flipping thru the channels.

 

About the missing 30 Rock shows ( or any other shows) - If its something that we feel offensive, you don't have to watch it.  I hate having my mind made up for me.  

Edited by FairWarning
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2 hours ago, FairWarning said:

I've never seen either show.  My extent of sitcoms is when I'm flipping thru the channels.

 

About the missing 30 Rock shows ( or any other shows) - If its something that we feel offensive, you don't have to watch it.  I hate having my mind made up for me.  

Me too.  I didn't hear about the missing 30 rock shows.  That show was funny too.  Great seeing Alec Baldwin playing a republican

REAGANING!

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am pretty sure they will still be able to report on other things... 

That's an interesting viewpoint.  "Don't worry, you can always go dig ditches for a living."

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3 hours ago, Sand said:

So Chicago's mayor has decided that she'll only do interviews with POC.  

All white journalists... cancelled.

Seems like an intended distraction in the style of Trump. Don’t fall for it!

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

Seems like an intended distraction in the style of Trump. Don’t fall for it!

He always said that, but he liked to bully CNN and other reporters from the left around.

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Woke in media today is SI going monthly, then wasting a cover on the WNBA turning 25.  Lets face it, this league wouldn't last 30 days if the NBA didn't bully its owners into supporting the league.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am pretty sure they will still be able to report on other things... 

Now do it as if Trump said the same thing!

I'm being facetious, of course, but you know damn well you and everyone else and the MSM would be blaring that DJT is racist on every channel 24/7.

Your muted and cavalier-when-its-someone-from-my-side response here is telling.

Edited by BladeRunner
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4 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Woke in media today is SI going monthly, then wasting a cover on the WNBA turning 25.  Lets face it, this league wouldn't last 30 days if the NBA didn't bully its owners into supporting the league.

Does anybody really read about sports anymore? Didn't most of the good journalists already go to a heaven or hell of their choosing or something? Or they're unemployed and residing on Twitter.

Bum Chillups AKA Spencer Hall, you da man. 

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12 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Does anybody really read about sports anymore? Didn't most of the good journalists already go to a heaven or hell of their choosing or something? Or they're unemployed and residing on Twitter.

Bum Chillups AKA Spencer Hall, you da man. 

I do have a pretty extensive sports library, but sadly agree with you.  A lot of them landed at The Athletic.

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11 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

I do have a pretty extensive sports library, but sadly agree with you.  A lot of them landed at The Athletic.

Yeah, of all the subscriptions I have, you think that'd be one that I sign up for, but I never did.

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Now do it as if Trump said the same thing!

I'm being facetious, of course, but you know damn well you and everyone else and the MSM would be blaring that DJT is racist on every channel 24/7.

Your muted and cavalier-when-its-someone-from-my-side response here is telling.

Yeah it's totally disingenuous.  Call out something when it's wrong.  It's not hard.  When you poo-poo it you look like a partisan hack.

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3 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Yeah it's totally disingenuous.  Call out something when it's wrong.  It's not hard.  When you poo-poo it you look like a partisan hack.

IMO, she’s saying something controversial in part to deflect attention from the very serious issues/criticism she is facing as mayor. And people are falling for it. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, of all the subscriptions I have, you think that'd be one that I sign up for, but I never did.

The Athletic is actually pretty good.  It's like what sports media might look like if it was done by people who wanted to be sports reporters, as opposed to people who wanted to be Nicole Hannah Jones but instead got relegated to covering the Jaguars.

Edit: To verify, I just opened up the site to do a quick check.  I have my profile set up so that what the site shows me is skewed strongly toward the NFL in general and the Bills in particular, but my front page currently has stories drawn from all the major sports, including soccer.  Out of maybe 60 or stories on my front page, only one of them even remotely has anything to do with politics, and that's a piece Callie Brownson, who recently got a full time job on the Browns' coaching staff -- I'm sure I'm seeing that because she was with the Bills for a while.  And that piece is written more or less like any other profile of any other sports personality might be written, without all the preachiness that you'd expect to see at SI or ESPN.  It's just a regular human-interest piece about somebody who had an unusual road to the NFL.  This kind of thing makes you appreciate the value of apolitical reporting, and it intensifies my contempt for ESPN.

Edited by IvanKaramazov
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21 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The Athletic is actually pretty good.  It's like what sports media might look like if it was done by people who wanted to be sports reporters, as opposed to people who wanted to be Nicole Hannah Jones but instead got relegated to covering the Jaguars.

Edit: To verify, I just opened up the site to do a quick check.  I have my profile set up so that what the site shows me is skewed strongly toward the NFL in general and the Bills in particular, but my front page currently has stories drawn from all the major sports, including soccer.  Out of maybe 60 or stories on my front page, only one of them even remotely has anything to do with politics, and that's a piece Callie Brownson, who recently got a full time job on the Browns' coaching staff -- I'm sure I'm seeing that because she was with the Bills for a while.  And that piece is written more or less like any other profile of any other sports personality might be written, without all the preachiness that you'd expect to see at SI or ESPN.  It's just a regular human-interest piece about somebody who had an unusual road to the NFL.  This kind of thing makes you appreciate the value of apolitical reporting, and it intensifies my contempt for ESPN.

Well, I had much respect for you but now that I found out your a Bills fan I'll have to take that under consideration again.  ;)

I don't know what the future holds, but I'll let you know once I come to a final decision on it.  

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7 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Well, I had much respect for you but now that I found out your a Bills fan I'll have to take that under consideration again.  ;)

I don't know what the future holds, but I'll let you know once I come to a final decision on it.  

Hey, as recently as just a couple of years ago people would speak more slowly and enunciate more carefully upon learning that I was a Bills fan. 

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35 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

It's like what sports media might look like if it was done by people who wanted to be sports reporters, as opposed to people who wanted to be Nicole Hannah Jones but instead got relegated to covering the Jaguars.

 

🤣

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Here's a good example of cancel culture coming from the right.  A young AP reporter was just fired over social media posts that she made while still in college.  I've argued before that except in very rare and extreme cases -- like murdering somebody -- anything a person does prior to college graduation should be considered off-limits.  This sounds like an egregious violation of that standard.

Quote

Emily Wilder, a journalist and 2020 graduate of Stanford University, started a new job as an Associated Press news associate based in Maricopa County, Arizona, on May 3.

Two weeks later, she was unceremoniously fired by the news outlet after conservatives resurfaced old social media posts that drew attention from Republicans as prominent as Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton. In Wilder's eyes, her firing is the latest example of right-wing cancel culture.

(snip)

Wilder, who worked with the Arizona Republic upon graduation until this May, became a national news story after the Stanford College Republicans wrote a Twitter thread Monday highlighting Wilder's pro-Palestine activism in college as well as some of her old Facebook posts. In one post, Wilder referred to the late Sheldon Adelson — who was a Jewish billionaire, Republican mega-donor and staunch defender of Israel — as a "naked mole rat."

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associated-Press-Israel-Palestine-AP-16192391.php

I'm sure we can all agree that "naked mole rat" is unambiguously anti-Semitic when directed at a Jewish person, but college kids often don't understand nuance -- see the in-group/out-group distinction regarding the use of the N-word -- and college kids are also often dumb enough to say intemperate things out loud without considering their impact.  This is a great example of the sort of thing that merits a talking-to but shouldn't follow somebody into adulthood.  

This is also why I wish people wouldn't use the term "cancel culture" to defend killers and sexual predators like Andrew Cuomo.  It's good to un-employ people who kill of their constituents and sexually assault staffers.  By way of contrast, it is bad to un-employ people who said something dumb when they were a college student.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Here's a good example of cancel culture coming from the right.  A young AP reporter was just fired over social media posts that she made while still in college.  I've argued before that except in very rare and extreme cases -- like murdering somebody -- anything a person does prior to college graduation should be considered off-limits.  This sounds like an egregious violation of that standard.

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associated-Press-Israel-Palestine-AP-16192391.php

I'm sure we can all agree that "naked mole rat" is unambiguously anti-Semitic when directed at a Jewish person, but college kids often don't understand nuance -- see the in-group/out-group distinction regarding the use of the N-word -- and college kids are also often dumb enough to say intemperate things out loud without considering their impact.  This is a great example of the sort of thing that merits a talking-to but shouldn't follow somebody into adulthood.  

This is also why I wish people wouldn't use the term "cancel culture" to defend killers and sexual predators like Andrew Cuomo.  It's good to un-employ people who kill of their constituents and sexually assault staffers.  By way of contrast, it is bad to un-employ people who said something dumb when they were a college student.

 

 

I'll be honest, I've never even heard that term before, and I just did a google search for "naked mole rat anti-Semitic term" and not a single result on the 1st page had anything to do with Jewish people, slurs or the relation of the word toward anti-Semitic. Just results referring to the animal. 

But according to your link, she is Jewish herself.

That said, I think this quote by her is completely tone deaf and blind to who's responsable for "the culture" 
 

Quote

"There's no question I was just canceled," Wilder told SFGATE by phone Thursday afternoon. "This is exactly the issue with the rhetoric around 'cancel culture.' To Republicans, cancel culture is usually seen as teens or young people online advocating that people be held accountable over accusations of racism or whatever it may be, but when it comes down to who actually has to deal with the lifelong ramifications of the selective enforcement of cancel culture — specifically over the issue of Israel and Palestine — it's always the same side."

"held accountable" is usually followed with a call for their jobs and mass humiliation. 

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19 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

I'll be honest, I've never even heard that term before, and I just did a google search for "naked mole rat anti-Semitic term" and not a single result on the 1st page had anything to do with Jewish people, slurs or the relation of the word toward anti-Semitic. Just results referring to the animal. 

But according to your link, she is Jewish herself.

Sure.  But there's a long history of Jews being referred to as rodents or vermin.  Calling some random person a mole rat isn't very nice, but it's not a big deal.  Calling a Jewish person a mole rat is pretty clearly over the line.  (In the same way, it's mean but fair game to compare George W. Bush to a chimpanzee.  It would be plainly racist to do the exact same thing to Obama).

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21 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

That said, I think this quote by her is completely tone deaf and blind to who's responsable for "the culture" 
 

"held accountable" is usually followed with a call for their jobs and mass humiliation. 

Yep.  "Held accountable" and "consequences" seem to be the euphemisms of choice for wildly disproportionate personal punishment for wrongthink.

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Sure.  But there's a long history of Jews being referred to as rodents or vermin.  Calling some random person a mole rat isn't very nice, but it's not a big deal.  Calling a Jewish person a mole rat is pretty clearly over the line.  (In the same way, it's mean but fair game to compare George W. Bush to a chimpanzee.  It would be plainly racist to do the exact same thing to Obama).

don't completely disagree...just saying that I've never heard it. 

my only sliver of a disagreement is that people seem to be coopting a lot of words and gestures to "mean something" more than they are. Not talking about his case specifically, but overall seems people who are looking to be offended can find some undertone in most any word. Look at the Jeopardy who (apparently) innocently held up 3 fingers to signify his 3 wins and the world went crazy b/c they thought it was a white power sign. 

You mention the Chimp word. We had a teacher her locally who took his class to the annual Bronx zoo class trip. During the trip he took pictures and then assembled them into a powerpoint which he has been doing for years, actually reusing the same PPT with new photos. In the PPT he had a slide that said "Monkey see, monkey do" with a photo of 4 AA students in a line that was taken on the trip, along with many other photos and similar zoo/animal related sayings. Of course that attributed it to racism and are now suing the district for $12M and were demanding the guy be fired. 

Stuipd to use that photo/cation, probably. But apparently the teacher was a long standing, popular teacher who used that exact same slide multiple times. His crime was that this time he didn't put at last 1 white student in there. 

So to what you said, We need to stop cherry picking everyday language that might have vague references to (insert whatever you want to be offended about) b/c eventually we are going to run out of words. 

 

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Here's a good example of cancel culture coming from the right.  A young AP reporter was just fired over social media posts that she made while still in college.  I've argued before that except in very rare and extreme cases -- like murdering somebody -- anything a person does prior to college graduation should be considered off-limits.  This sounds like an egregious violation of that standard.

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associated-Press-Israel-Palestine-AP-16192391.php

I'm sure we can all agree that "naked mole rat" is unambiguously anti-Semitic when directed at a Jewish person, but college kids often don't understand nuance -- see the in-group/out-group distinction regarding the use of the N-word -- and college kids are also often dumb enough to say intemperate things out loud without considering their impact.  This is a great example of the sort of thing that merits a talking-to but shouldn't follow somebody into adulthood.  

This is also why I wish people wouldn't use the term "cancel culture" to defend killers and sexual predators like Andrew Cuomo.  It's good to un-employ people who kill of their constituents and sexually assault staffers.  By way of contrast, it is bad to un-employ people who said something dumb when they were a college student.

 

 

In general I agree with you, but I'm not sure this is such a great example, for a couple of reasons:

1)  Quote from your article, by the canceled person:

Quote

There's no question I was just canceled," Wilder told SFGATE by phone Thursday afternoon. "This is exactly the issue with the rhetoric around 'cancel culture.' To Republicans, cancel culture is usually seen as teens or young people online advocating that people be held accountable over accusations of racism or whatever it may be, but when it comes down to who actually has to deal with the lifelong ramifications of the selective enforcement of cancel culture — specifically over the issue of Israel and Palestine — it's always the same side."

It''s hard to have any sympathy for someone getting canceled and then having the audacity to suggest that only one side does it.

2)  She just graduated college what, like a year ago?  If she was 35 and people were digging up her college writings and canceling her, that would be bad.  But I'm supposed to believe her opinions and thought processes have changed in a year or two at most?  I'm having trouble with that, and suspect she's just upset that she got caught. 

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On 5/21/2021 at 9:12 AM, IvanKaramazov said:

Here's a good example of cancel culture coming from the right. 

This is also why I wish people wouldn't use the term "cancel culture" to defend killers and sexual predators like Andrew Cuomo.  It's good to un-employ people who kill of their constituents and sexually assault staffers.  By way of contrast, it is bad to un-employ people who said something dumb when they were a college student.

I'd say you've done a good job identifying cancel culture from the right, but that she's getting canceled for stuff she said a year ago gives me pause about what sort of reflecting she might have done within that year. Now that said, I can't get behind this firing. The AP should have known exactly what they were getting into when hiring her and they should be standing beside her or having her back, whichever positional choice one would prefer.

As for the latter paragraph, using the phrase "cancel culture" to describe appropriate reactions to bad behaviors takes away from the very real instances of real cancel culture, and make it often makes it impossible for people to sympathize with that term. Like tim, who just announces that cancel culture doesn't exist, part and parcel because of uses like Cuomo's. "Cancel culture," when used as a catch-all for discipline, is a legitimate concept stood on its ear and used to describe reasonable reactions to bad behavior. I hate when people do that. They're weasels and rats, and that has nothing to do with religion.

 

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1 hour ago, beef said:

And the world really turned upside down with this comment.

"It comes on the heels of a much bigger issue of gender discrimination and these girls being targeted and sexualized for being told that their clothes are wrong," she said. "There's inequality within their dress code."

Uh, they're being sexualized? Gender discrimination? How many boys are wearing cleavage-revealing shirts or halter tops? Cleavage and the modern showing off of it is indeed sexualizing a female's body, but it's not the adults looking at it who are doing it. It's called decolletage, is a conspicuous choice when it comes to fashion, and comes from the French meaning, subtly, "to reveal the neck."

I've never gotten adults that say people are sexualizing females inappropriately because of potentially inappropriate dress. Are decollete ensembles somehow inherently cooler or easier to wear? If one can demonstrate that, then I'm all ears. Until then, it seems like a way to show off one's breasts.

Whether cancelling that school-wide is appropriate is another debate to be had for another time. I was just reminded of that attitude by the quote in the article.   

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INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THE NEW OPPRESSORS!  CANCELLED!

Cook County Commissioner Stanley Moore said Monday that before a vote can be taken on whether the county should change Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples’ Day, major tribes in the U.S. should “acknowledge their role in the rich history of Black slaves.”

Moore, who said he is a direct descendant of a Choctaw Freedman, said tribes have unfairly denied descendants full tribal membership — and are excluding them from such benefits as education and housing assistance and casino profits.

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3 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Students sign fake petition to cancel Memorial Day, call it a celebration of 'US imperialism'
 

“I didn't really think in this way until I went to college and I took women's and gender studies classes and that put me on this path where I'm like, yeah, f--k the U.S.”

As I watch this I’m seated 10 feet from the memorial flag of my wife’s grandfather who was shot down over Germany in WWII.  SMH.

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2 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Students sign fake petition to cancel Memorial Day, call it a celebration of 'US imperialism'
 

“I didn't really think in this way until I went to college and I took women's and gender studies classes and that put me on this path where I'm like, yeah, f--k the U.S.”

This doesn't mean much of anything. Some people will sign almost any petition that is put in front of them, which explains why many initiatives in California made the ballot that ended up being overwhelmingly voted down..

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53 minutes ago, squistion said:

This doesn't mean much of anything. Some people will sign almost any petition that is put in front of them, which explains why many initiatives in California made the ballot that ended up being overwhelmingly voted down..

It means some people are very ill-informed.

And others make excuses for them being that way.

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20 minutes ago, identikit said:

It means some people are very ill-informed.

And others make excuses for them being that way.

As they always have been and continue to be. For instance 25% of those polled say that Trump is still the "true president."  :(

 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/05/25/poll-quarter-americans-surveyed-say-trump-true-president/7426714002/

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32 minutes ago, identikit said:

It means some people are very ill-informed.

And others make excuses for them being that way.

This is your choice though.

That's the worst part.

Maybe you can find a poll that either defects this or excuses it.

Oy

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46 minutes ago, identikit said:

This is your choice though.

That's the worst part.

Maybe you can find a poll that either defects this or excuses it.

Oy

Who was making excuses for them? Not me. A certain percentage of idiot college kids will sign any petition put in front of them (as will some adults) and it not hard to find some who are willing to go on the record even if they have no idea what they are talking about. 

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Just now, squistion said:

Who was making excuses for them? Not me. A certain percentage of idiot college kids will sign any petition put in front of them (as will some adults) and it not hard to find some who are willing to go on the record even if they have no idea what they are talking about. 

See.

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