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“Cancel Culture” and “Woke”


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12 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

I think the problem is that much of the time the reaction on Twitter isn’t just people disagreeing or criticizing, but mobs get whipped up and people start actually threatening violence on someone, their friends, and family.

But I’m not in disagreement with you in that it’s a terrible medium to communicate opinions on anything political or social and anyone doing so should do so realizing the potential huge negatives from doing so.

I half agree.  Its terribly inefficient unless you curate what you read.  You need to find the few dozen needles in the haystack.  Its actually not that hard because generally people you value will like or re-tweet people they like so you can get exposure fast.

To me effective use of twitter consists of finding a few people who write things that I generally want to read in a way I want to read them (meaning written with purpose and not just to spew bile).  These generally consist of people who are not writing crap because frankly they have an online presence, are known, so suffer reputational harm if they write crap.

If you read the comments to those tweets...you are going to read a lot of crap and its a waste of time.  This is the rabbit hole of hate.  If you click any of the stuff that twitter tries to get you to click you are going to read a lot of crap.

Edited to add:  I also do not post.  This helps with the effectiveness (I don't waste time writing) and also ensures I don't accidently get myself or my family cancelled lol.  There is not much downside to this because as Grove mentions I think it works better as a forum to disseminate opinions/ideas/information than a debate.

Edited by djmich
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Perfect summation of the arguments that the naysayers of "cancel culture" use, by Geoff Schullenberger

"Cancel culture kettle logic reminder:

1. Cancel culture doesn’t exist

2. Cancel culture is good

3. Cancel culture is what the other side does"

Those are the exact arguments, and usually in that progression, that we see in this thread. Cancel culture doesn't exist, or if it does, it is simply more speech, which is allowed in America and is virtuous by it being an exercise of speech rights (the argument that @djmichjust so wonderfully destroyed upthread). Then, if it does exist and is bad, it must be what the other side is doing, not our side.

This is just perfectly fitting and constructed as the playbook of the neo-maxie zoom dweebies that seem intent on denying the existence of cancel culture and the harm done by the perpetrators to the victims. If it's a glaring cancellation, they concentrate on what the other side might be doing so as to deflect any blame from themselves and their fellow travelers.

Edited by rockaction
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5 hours ago, rockaction said:

Perfect summation of the arguments that the naysayers of "cancel culture" use, by Geoff Schullenberger

"Cancel culture kettle logic reminder:

1. Cancel culture doesn’t exist

2. Cancel culture is good

3. Cancel culture is what the other side does"

Those are the exact arguments, and usually in that progression, that we see in this thread. Cancel culture doesn't exist, or if it does, it is simply more speech, which is allowed in America and is virtuous by it being an exercise of speech rights (the argument that @djmichjust so wonderfully destroyed upthread). Then, if it does exist and is bad, it must be what the other side is doing, not our side.

This is just perfectly fitting and constructed as the playbook of the neo-maxie zoom dweebies that seem intent on denying the existence of cancel culture and the harm done by the perpetrators to the victims. If it's a glaring cancellation, they concentrate on what the other side might be doing so as to deflect any blame from themselves and their fellow travelers.

BOOM!  💣

/endOfThread

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6 hours ago, rockaction said:

Perfect summation of the arguments that the naysayers of "cancel culture" use, by Geoff Schullenberger

"Cancel culture kettle logic reminder:

1. Cancel culture doesn’t exist

2. Cancel culture is good

3. Cancel culture is what the other side does"

Those are the exact arguments, and usually in that progression, that we see in this thread. Cancel culture doesn't exist, or if it does, it is simply more speech, which is allowed in America and is virtuous by it being an exercise of speech rights (the argument that @djmichjust so wonderfully destroyed upthread). Then, if it does exist and is bad, it must be what the other side is doing, not our side.

This is just perfectly fitting and constructed as the playbook of the neo-maxie zoom dweebies that seem intent on denying the existence of cancel culture and the harm done by the perpetrators to the victims. If it's a glaring cancellation, they concentrate on what the other side might be doing so as to deflect any blame from themselves and their fellow travelers.

See the problem with all of this is that there are no absolutes in regards to this topic. 
Sometimes cancel culture doesn’t exist. 
Sometimes cancel culture is good. 
Sometimes cancel culture is what the other side does. 
And sometimes none of this is true. 

My problem is when people (mostly conservatives, though not always) seem to believe it’s a deliberate plot to destroy their way of life, attack white people, etc etc. I’m always skeptical of this sort of paranoia. 

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3 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

End of thread?  Shouldn’t we continue to shed light on problematic cancel culture incidents?

Hmmmm....You may be wrong but you may be right.

After much though, I agree - let's continue to shed light on it.  :thumbup:

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On 7/1/2021 at 6:02 AM, supermike80 said:

Welp.  Phylicia Rashad just signed her death warrant.  

You know cancel culture has gone full circle when people start including celebrities who defend rapists.

 

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3 hours ago, Sea Duck said:

You know cancel culture has gone full circle when people start including celebrities who defend rapists.

At this point it would be "alleged rapist", yes?

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  • 4 weeks later...
10 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

It is almost unsettling how much sense Maher is making lately. :lol:

He was spot-on accurate about cultural appropriation and how stupid it is. 


Yep, spot on. And perhaps it’s also worth considering whether Maher has made sense all along, and not just lately. 

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3 hours ago, bigbottom said:


Yep, spot on. And perhaps it’s also worth considering whether Maher has made sense all along, and not just lately. 

Or, people really shouldn't be assumed to be universally right or wrong based on their political label...we can judge each thought and idea on it's own.

It's a liberating way to live.

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3 hours ago, bigbottom said:

Yep, spot on. And perhaps it’s also worth considering whether Maher has made sense all along, and not just lately. 

Maher's views on organized religion really are tapping you on the shoulder and begging for a listen. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 10:19 AM, Sand said:

At this point it would be "alleged rapist", yes?

Alleged with about a hundred first-person dissenters and a technicality.

But you're incorrect in this way. Rape is not dependent on a criminal label nor a jury trial verdict. "Rape" is what happens when one rapes, and does not implicate the term "alleged rape," unless specifically denoting its legal status in our country. It is the same term, unlike when a killing turns into a alleged "murder." 

"Murder" is the alleged killing of another person with malice aforethought, defined by a judicial system (murder having been defined for almost ages). A killing is not a "murder" without a judicial finding of its unjustness. Notice the Biblical use of the word "kill" and "rape." At times in the Bible, you will not hear about forbidding "murder," because killing suffices. It needs no legal construct for it to exist. A "murder" only turns into "murder" with a judicial system. Otherwise it is a killing. 

But a rape is a rape, regardless of societal views on the particular event. 

Thou shalt not kill. It's more absolute, and needs no earthly justice system to call it murder. 

Is this confusing? I'm almost confusing myself. 

To use the word murder, you need a societal judgment, otherwise it's just unjust killing. 

To use the word rape, you simply need a rape.  

Edited by woodstock
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8 minutes ago, woodstock said:

Alleged with about a hundred first-person dissenters and a technicality.

But you're incorrect in this way. Rape is not dependent on a criminal label nor a jury trial verdict. "Rape" is what happens when one rapes, and does not implicate the term "alleged rape," unless specifically denoting its legal status in our country. It is the same term, unlike when a killing turns into a alleged "murder." 

"Murder" is the alleged killing of another person with malice aforethought, defined by a judicial system (murder having been defined for almost ages). A killing is not a "murder" without a judicial finding of its unjustness. Notice the Biblical use of the word "kill" and "rape." At times in the Bible, you will not hear about forbidding "murder," because killing suffices. It needs no legal construct for it to exist. A "murder" only turns into "murder" with a judicial system. Otherwise it is a killing. 

But a rape is a rape, regardless of societal views on the particular event. 

Thou shalt not kill. It's more absolute, and needs no earthly justice system to call it murder. 

Is this confusing? I'm almost confusing myself. 

To use the word murder, you need a societal judgment, otherwise it's just unjust killing. 

To use the word rape, you simply need a rape.  

Isn't rape just unjust sex  ....  🤣

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5 minutes ago, djmich said:

Isn't rape just unjust sex  ....  🤣

I don't think so. I think the definition of sex involves consent, at least as I understand it. 

But I get what you're saying. 

That said, what I wrote is serious. "Murder" and "alleged murder" are terms of judicial art. Rape is just rape in Judeo-Christian (I do not know the Koran's view. At all, so I won't comment, especially considering Mohammed's girls' ages) cultures. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I did enjoy the last Krystal and Saagar pod and their history of cancel culture from the right side of the aisle.  (8.9.21 episode)

ETA:  forgot that it was the guest yesterday.  It looks like THIS is the section of the pod.  

Edited by KarmaPolice
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https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/woman-denied-entry-party-bus-210722227.html

A 27 y/o body positivity advocate was turned away from a party bus.  The online directions st sign-up said "Sorry No Big Girls for this party! The doorman is very strict on appearance."  So she signed up.

"Being turned away in front of other people because of how I look and my size was absolutely humiliating," Fallon told BuzzFeed. "I was embarrassed and shocked, to say the least. Even though I know I am beautiful on the inside and out, this moment made me feel helpless. This is what every plus-size person fears — being turned away from an event because of how we look."

In addition to being massively overweight, she doesn't have a pretty face.  Her attitude and delusions, and desire to ride the party bus/force this situation, indicate to me that she is equally ugly on the inside.

Meanwhile, Fallon has been left to reflect on the whole experience, sharing, "I knew things like this may happen, but never thought it would be towards me. This past year, I actually lost a significant amount of weight and was feeling a lot better about myself. Only to go to Miami to be ostracized. Not only Miami, but other popular places where body image is important. The culture needs to change — especially in places such as Miami, LA, and Vegas."

Never mentioned in the article is the fact that guys have to pay $40 to ride the bus while girls pay $20.  Why should the dudes be covering the extra fuel surcharges for the body positivity advocates?

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14 minutes ago, Caveman33 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/woman-denied-entry-party-bus-210722227.html

A 27 y/o body positivity advocate was turned away from a party bus.  The online directions st sign-up said "Sorry No Big Girls for this party! The doorman is very strict on appearance."  So she signed up.

"Being turned away in front of other people because of how I look and my size was absolutely humiliating," Fallon told BuzzFeed. "I was embarrassed and shocked, to say the least. Even though I know I am beautiful on the inside and out, this moment made me feel helpless. This is what every plus-size person fears — being turned away from an event because of how we look."

In addition to being massively overweight, she doesn't have a pretty face.  Her attitude and delusions, and desire to ride the party bus/force this situation, indicate to me that she is equally ugly on the inside.

Meanwhile, Fallon has been left to reflect on the whole experience, sharing, "I knew things like this may happen, but never thought it would be towards me. This past year, I actually lost a significant amount of weight and was feeling a lot better about myself. Only to go to Miami to be ostracized. Not only Miami, but other popular places where body image is important. The culture needs to change — especially in places such as Miami, LA, and Vegas."

Never mentioned in the article is the fact that guys have to pay $40 to ride the bus while girls pay $20.  Why should the dudes be covering the extra fuel surcharges for the body positivity advocates?

 I don't even know where to start with this one.  

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

 I don't even know where to start with this one.  

That's how I felt when reading the article.  There's so much to criticize, it's overwhelming.  I know I've rankled some people in the past by sharing my thoughts on the increasing number of people diagnosed with mental health disorders.  I suspect that narcissism may be the root cause of a lot of these mental health issues. This body positivity advocate thinks very highly of herself and her physical appearance.  It appears she has a picture of her face painted on her wall.  Imagine how big her head would be if she was actually good looking?

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7 minutes ago, Caveman33 said:

That's how I felt when reading the article.  There's so much to criticize, it's overwhelming.  I know I've rankled some people in the past by sharing my thoughts on the increasing number of people diagnosed with mental health disorders.  I suspect that narcissism may be the root cause of a lot of these mental health issues. This body positivity advocate thinks very highly of herself and her physical appearance.  It appears she has a picture of her face painted on her wall.  Imagine how big her head would be if she was actually good looking?

No surprise, but I started on the other end wondering why (but I guess I shouldn't be surprised) there are buses and rules like that anyway.  

And to your last question, I am guessing a lot of these places have lower prices or 2 for 1 drinks to try to get the ladies more interested?  

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5 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

No surprise, but I started on the other end wondering why (but I guess I shouldn't be surprised) there are buses and rules like that anyway.  

And to your last question, I am guessing a lot of these places have lower prices or 2 for 1 drinks to try to get the ladies more interested?  

Well I'm with you there KP cause I'm aware of these sort of party buses but it's not a scene that I would partake in.  Just like waiting in line at a "hot" club to be judged by a doorman.  No thanks, I don't want to be judged and I don't want to hang out with the people who do want to be judged.  

You're probably right about the drinks and that is certainly why the bus tickets are cheaper for females.  If I ever owned a bar/club, I would offer discounts or free drinks to the local hot chicks in order to create an environment that would encourage dudes to spend lots of money.

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3 minutes ago, Caveman33 said:

Well I'm with you there KP cause I'm aware of these sort of party buses but it's not a scene that I would partake in.  Just like waiting in line at a "hot" club to be judged by a doorman.  No thanks, I don't want to be judged and I don't want to hang out with the people who do want to be judged.  

You're probably right about the drinks and that is certainly why the bus tickets are cheaper for females.  If I ever owned a bar/club, I would offer discounts or free drinks to the local hot chicks in order to create an environment that would encourage dudes to spend lots of money.

 Correct.  Hell, back in the Stone Age when I was at the UW, we would complain why there are 2-3 ladies night a week, but where are the 2 for 1 drinks for dudes??!!  Yeah, that's because most of the time it was a sausage party and we would be there drinking regardless.  :lol:  

But I get where the other part of the post was probably going on that part, and I struggle with both ends of that equation too.   I am all for people loving what they are, and fully understand that we are really unhealthy people.  

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6 minutes ago, Caveman33 said:

You're probably right about the drinks and that is certainly why the bus tickets are cheaper for females.  If I ever owned a bar/club, I would offer discounts or free drinks to the local hot chicks in order to create an environment that would encourage dudes to spend lots of money.

This is basically Night Club 101, right?  

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6 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

This is basically Night Club 101, right?  

No doubt.  This article was about how discriminatory the club policy is toward big girls but it completely ignored the discrimination against all men.  The big girls can't have their cake and eat it too.  

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33 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

 Correct.  Hell, back in the Stone Age when I was at the UW, we would complain why there are 2-3 ladies night a week, but where are the 2 for 1 drinks for dudes??!!  Yeah, that's because most of the time it was a sausage party and we would be there drinking regardless.  :lol:  

But I get where the other part of the post was probably going on that part, and I struggle with both ends of that equation too.   I am all for people loving what they are, and fully understand that we are really unhealthy people.  

I can see it now, a hard-working guy is struggling to attract patrons to his new club.  He tries some girl promos but everyone continues to go to the established clubs.  Then a young man approaches with the idea of embracing equality.  Modern women are independent and make their own money.  When looking to blow off steam after a tough day at work, wouldn't they want to enjoy some eye candy?

"Yes, you're right," The naive owner said.

So they offer free cover charges to hot boys, and do promos like "Sex packs for six packs."  Suddenly, business is booming.  Tanned hard bodies glistening in baby oil all over the dance floor. But the girls never come..the girls never come.

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5 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

No surprise, but I started on the other end wondering why (but I guess I shouldn't be surprised) there are buses and rules like that anyway.  

And to your last question, I am guessing a lot of these places have lower prices or 2 for 1 drinks to try to get the ladies more interested?  

They are all fighting over that market.  I have thought about offering a service like this actually.  

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22 minutes ago, Sand said:

Oregon goes full woke - can't read or write or do arithmetic?  No problem, here's your diploma.

 

I don't really understand this. Was it a separate test that Oregon seniors had to take? I mean - I assume the students still have to pass the classes they take to graduate. So if they can't read, write, or do math - they likely can't pass their classes, right? 

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Jack Morris suspended from Tiger's broadcasts for saying "Be very, very careful" with an accent when talking about pitching to Shohei Ohtani.  Not sure if was an Elmer Fudd quote or mocking Japanese speech, but seems kind of lame considering he apologized and Ohtani took no offense to it.  

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32045498/jack-morris-suspended-bally-sports-detroit-remarks-los-angeles-angels-shohei-ohtani?platform=amp

But here we are. 

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

Jack Morris suspended from Tiger's broadcasts ...


At least suspensions end. They can just wait for whatever reactions they get (if any) to blow over and then bring Morris back.

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48 minutes ago, Doug B said:


At least suspensions end. They can just wait for whatever reactions they get (if any) to blow over and then bring Morris back.

 

At least....but I value free speech.  This idea that non-protected minorities have to walk on eggshells at all times is unacceptable.  

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He should have been suspended...and his apology of I didn't meant to offend and Im sorry if I did is one of those copout apologies.

It was dumb to do...a slap on the wrist suspension and "training" seem appropriate for the situation.

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

At least....but I value free speech.  This idea that non-protected minorities have to walk on eggshells at all times is unacceptable.  

 

Using a mocking Asian accent while describing Ohtani is what is unacceptable and the suspension is well deserved.

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This whole holier-than-thou spite that dominates this woke culture disgusts me.  This cancel culture with this head-chopping zero-tolerence immediate revenge goes against what I think decent human beings should be.  Jack is not the classiest individual, but these judgements ruining people's lives based on some snippet sickens me.  It is a culture which has zero empathy towards people who do not conform to the emperor's rules.  This is not a free society.  It is not even Asians who are upset.  

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25 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

What's your sample size?

 

One video, which is all anyone has needed to hear.

And was Elmer Fudd mentioned in Jack Morris' apology? (Spoiler: No)

https://twitter.com/SpencerWheelock/status/1427825326684622848 (video clip at link)

That's all folks!

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5 minutes ago, squistion said:

 

One video, which is all anyone has needed to hear.

And was Elmer Fudd mentioned in Jack Morris' apology? (Spoiler: No)

https://twitter.com/SpencerWheelock/status/1427825326684622848 (video clip at link)

That's all folks!

By definition it would be both the best and worst impersonation you’ve ever heard then 

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8 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

This whole holier-than-thou spite that dominates this woke culture disgusts me.  This cancel culture with this head-chopping zero-tolerence immediate revenge goes against what I think decent human beings should be.  Jack is not the classiest individual, but these judgements ruining people's lives based on some snippet sickens me.  It is a culture which has zero empathy towards people who do not conform to the emperor's rules.  This is not a free society.  It is not even Asians who are upset.  

 

I love it when you speak for how Asians and other minorities feel. 

There were some who were upset, including the Asian American Journalists Association's Sports Task Force:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2021/08/17/tigers-tv-analyst-jack-morris-apologizes-after-potentially-derogatory-comments/8175430002/

Tigers' TV analyst Jack Morris apologizes for perceived racist accent during Shohei Ohtani at-bat

[...]

Early Wednesday, the Asian American Journalists Association's Sports Task Force issued a statement, calling Morris' apology "insensitive and ignorant, referencing only the words he chose but not the stereotypical, racist accent he used."

"The Asian American Journalists Association Sports Task Force is disappointed and disturbed by Morris’ attempt to provide analysis on a live broadcast in this manner, especially at a time when Asians in the United States are experiencing a sharp increase in anti-Asian hate, which is resulting in harassment and attacks," the association's statement continued. "In his analysis, would Morris have used an accent for an African-American player? A Hispanic or Latin player? An Irish or Italian player? Morris, a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame, should be held to a higher standard while serving a regional and national audience. [...]

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