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The “Woke” thread (5 Viewers)

squistion said:
That was unnecessary condescension, not surprisingly followed by complete gibberish.

I was hoping for a serious explanation, not a bunch of double talk. 
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I took wikkid to be saying like the following:

A related dimension of this topic is the entry of women of women into their workforce and their rise up through the ranks.  (And let us remember, gentlemen, that women are not a minority group).  This development set in motion a new emphasis on language, as well as new workplace norms that require enforcement by HR departments.  
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squistion said:
That was unnecessary condescension, not surprisingly followed by complete gibberish.

I was hoping for a serious explanation, not a bunch of double talk. 
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I'm not even responding to this. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you. And it wasn't supposed to be condescending, it was supposed to be a little fun.

I'm done interacting with you forever.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
This would make for a interesting spin-off topic.  I'm actually pretty supportive of #metoo -- I think it's good that predators like Harvey Weinstein are gone, and I think it's good that relatively few people are so quick to defend Bill Clinton any more.  Sexual harassment and sexual violence shouldn't be part of the workplace.  

Where I disagree with #metoo is in implementing Title IX on college campuses, which went too far the other way during the Obama years.  That's a big exception, but otherwise I consider myself a supporter.

The woke stuff is totally different in my mind, because it typically involves manufactured outrage over "harmful" speech, which is totally different than actual harm caused by real conduct.
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I will admit that it might have been the best example.  I just remember a bit of back and forth on these boards about how far #metoo went, and how people felt like they couldn't say or do anything anymore in fear of backlash.   That's mostly what I am saying - that overall it's the right idea, but we might have overcorrected the other way for a bit.  

Like I said, I think this "woke" stuff is a bit of an extension of that.  There is some speech that could be harmful to people, and that should be addressed, but I think it's gone too far and I understand people's frustration.  I think the difference between them is the frequency - I would guess there is a lot more example in everyday life where metoo would come into play compared to how many times there is speech that is truly harmful that needs to be corrected.  

 
rockaction said:
I'm not even responding to this. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you. And it wasn't supposed to be condescending, it was supposed to be a little fun.

I'm done interacting with you forever.
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Promises, promises. Not the first time you have said that and it won't be the last. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I'm not sure that person unfamiliar with the concept of a TED talk is the right person to be confidently opining on the intellectual climate of our age.  You're literally not part of the conversation.
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I'm really having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one. Tim really doesn't know what a TED talk is? How is that possible?

 
rockaction said:
I have faith in your comprehension of the abstract.

Here, though, in case you need someone to dumb it down for you. The ascension of women from subjugated agents within the home into the spheres of economic and social agency and independence led to a reassessing of our cultural virtues and morals. wikkid might be saying that these new virtues and morals are Puritanical in form and scope because women are naturally geared that way and they are now in the majority, both politically and socially. Therefore, with this new majority and with our new duty to accept their agency, their edicts will stick and become the norms for judging morals, only this new Puritanism will be so immersive as to filter down to basic HR and business speak, cultural and social gender equity sensitivities, and diversity and the social understanding that identity, chap, is the be-all postmodern end-all. Dig? Or, girls rule, boys drool, if you will.
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just what i said.

 
Cancel culture and censorship suck.  Creates such an awful atmosphere in the country.  I can’t see how anyone can defend it.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Instead of linking to an article saying that right-wingers defended Harvey Weinstein, how about some actual examples of actual right-wingers actually defending Harvey Weinstein?  I'm not talking about the Mark Levins or Rush Limbaughs of the world -- I mean otherwise-credible people who thought that Harvey Weinstein was a victim somehow.

Good luck.  We're all counting on you.   

Edit: The author of the article you approvingly cited doesn't actually provide any examples at all to support his point about Weinstein.  Literally none.  Doesn't that tell you something?
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Maybe Tim should read up the "sources" thread we got going on in the PSF.

 
Funny, I was just on Twitter and saw a political commentator saying that the Democrats were going to run on QAnon and that the Republicans were going to politicize cancel culture.

And considering who will be politicizing each issue for their bases and how much attention each will garner, it will just give both more legitimacy and potential power, most likely. Swell political system we've got going right now.

 
timschochet said:
I appreciate those here who respond to my actual posts, no matter how much you might disagree with me, rather than attempt to put words in my mouth. 
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I'm blown away that you don't know what a Ted Talk is.  You have lots of really good stuff now to kill some serious time on.

 
ekbeats said:
Cancel culture and censorship suck.  Creates such an awful atmosphere in the country.  I can’t see how anyone can defend it.
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The drunk real estate bro in LA who verbally harassed an Asian female on camera and called her all sorts of repugnant names on - including an ethnic slur - lost his job as a result.  Seems like a good thing to me but maybe others will defend him here? I dunno. 

Link: https://heavy.com/news/michael-mike-dalcin/

 
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General Malaise said:
The drunk real estate bro in LA who verbally harassed an Asian female on camera and called her all sorts of repugnant names on - including an ethnic slur - lost his job as a result.  Seems like a good thing to me but maybe others will defend him here? I dunno. 

Link: https://heavy.com/news/michael-mike-dalcin/
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As usual, you get it wrong once again and try to distract with complete nonsense.  Try reading the whole thread next time before you post because Tim tried pulling this same crap.

But, then again, trolling is your thing so maybe you'll get those much sought after "likes" you constantly need from the usual suspects in here.

 
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BladeRunner said:
As usual, you get it wrong once again and try to distract with complete nonsense.  Try reading the whole thread next time before you post because Tim tried pulling this same crap.

But, then again, trolling is your thing so maybe you'll get those much sought after "likes" you constantly need from the usual suspects in here.
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Lol...wut? Good lord, dude. Quality rant, tho. 

 
BladeRunner said:
As usual, you get it wrong once again and try to distract with complete nonsense.  Try reading the whole thread next time before you post because Tim tried pulling this same crap.

But, then again, trolling is your thing so maybe you'll get those much sought after "likes" you constantly need from the usual suspects in here.
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I gave you a like for the tantrum.  Good stuff.

 
timschochet said:
You need @krista4. She speaks Wikkid. 
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I can follow him and translate in the NBA thread only.  Out here in the worlds of literature, arts, pop culture, politics, etc., I'm as lost as almost everyone else.  I think the only guy who really can is rockaction.

Reading their posts feels like reading Old English.  I recognize a few words, think I grasp a couple of phrases and then go to my google machine to help translate what I can't make out.  Even then I come up short of understanding at least half of the time.

 
Jayrod said:
I can follow him and translate in the NBA thread only.  Out here in the worlds of literature, arts, pop culture, politics, etc., I'm as lost as almost everyone else.  I think the only guy who really can is rockaction.

Reading their posts feels like reading Old English.  I recognize a few words, think I grasp a couple of phrases and then go to my google machine to help translate what I can't make out.  Even then I come up short of understanding at least half of the time.
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Sure, rockaction can translate wikkid, but then you still need someone to translate rockaction.  :)  

 
General Malaise said:
Bunch of mean girls up in here.  Jeez, be better. 
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Please. You responded in a general manner to "people in this thread" and then further generalized each person who had spoken out against cancel culture by implicitly giving them an opinion about a specific instance that nobody had discussed, while presuming to know or implying that you knew their position on the matter. Don't argue in bad faith, get called on it, and then call people "mean girls."

 
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General Malaise said:
First of all, I responded to a post by EKbeats. Not you and rocaction, but thanks for butting in. 

Next, EKbeats said cancel culture sucks and said who can defend it.  In the case of the LA Real Estate bro who got fired, I'm good with that.  Is that not an example of cancel culture?  

Bunch of mean girls up in here.  Jeez, be better. 
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What I would like to see in some of these stories is some kind of reconciliation and forgiveness.   Maybe some sort of therapy for people?  Dunno.

At the end of the day, yes him and his actions were gross.   What does that have to do with his job besides the company not wanting bad press?  Does him losing his job help correct his worldview or does it make him more angry?    

I don't have the answers, but I think you know that you threw out a fairly cut and dry case of somebody being caught in the action.  There are just as many examples of internet sleuths digging up posts and pics from a decade and people getting fired and called out for that stuff, and IMO that is what most people hate about the "cancel culture".  

 
rockaction said:
No. You've come into the thread in bad faith with the way you're arguing, and you're personalizing it, as always in the PSF. Full stop on that.
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A question was asked. "Who can defend it".  I gave an example where I think cancel culture worked.  And you have a problem with that?  Get over yourself. 

 
General Malaise said:
A question was asked. "Who can defend it".  I gave an example where I think cancel culture worked.  And you have a problem with that?  Get over yourself. 
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No, I'm totally over myself. You need to stop personalizing every political argument you get in. Your argument was specious and you cast your line in the water by saying "Seems like a good thing to me but maybe others in this thread will disagree" as if disagreeing with cancel culture extended, implicitly, to disagreeing that the loss of his job was a good thing. It was presumptive and falsely humble with the "I dunno." It's also an inflammatory example and a straw man when most of the thread has been discussing minor transgressions that wind up in major conflagrations damaging people's property interests and social status.

 
rockaction said:
Why don't go grill tim for not putting the right songs in 1971 or something? I tried to help. You made it caustic and stupid. And condescending is "will someone translate this into English" followed by an emoji of disapproval.
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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

I'm done interacting with you forever.
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Forever? That didn't last long did it?

 
We're talking more about things where, to take a recent example, Twitter mobs get mad at an author for writing a specific way about a minority character in her book, for instance, something that has been happening to people in the arts -- even those who go out of their way to seek multicultural opinions -- at an alarming rate.

Not about a guy screaming epithets a woman on the street caught on camera and suffering repercussions therefrom. That's not really the intent of the thread. If you want to play Socratic method with extreme examples of people behaving badly and getting fired, that's on you, but it wasn't what this thread has been about.

Anything else alerts the reader that you either didn't read the thread or that you are arguing, again, in bad faith.

 
rockaction said:
No, I'm totally over myself. You need to stop personalizing every political argument you get in. Your argument was specious and you cast your line in the water by saying "Seems like a good thing to me but maybe others in this thread will disagree" as if disagreeing with cancel culture extended, implicitly, to disagreeing that the loss of his job was a good thing. It was presumptive and falsely humble with the "I dunno." It's also an inflammatory example and a straw man when most of the thread has been discussing minor transgressions that wind up in major conflagrations damaging people's property interests and social status.
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So when I'm asked "who can defend cancel culture" and I provide an example of where I think it worked, I'm just a bad faith actor?  

 
BladeRunner said:
As usual, you get it wrong once again and try to distract with complete nonsense.  Try reading the whole thread next time before you post because Tim tried pulling this same crap.

But, then again, trolling is your thing so maybe you'll get those much sought after "likes" you constantly need from the usual suspects in here.
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Zero likes.   Looks like even the regulars are tired of the childness.  

 
General Malaise said:
The drunk real estate bro in LA who verbally harassed an Asian female on camera and called her all sorts of repugnant names on - including an ethnic slur - lost his job as a result.  Seems like a good thing to me but maybe others will defend him here? I dunno. 

Link: https://heavy.com/news/michael-mike-dalcin/
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I dont want to defend him, but I will say this is still an example of how stupid cancel culture is. 

Every time one of these things happens you get all these idiots on twitter that post the video or the photo and say "twitter do your thing" almost every time at least one person is wrongly identified and almost every time the story is at least twisted a bit. 

The consequences that come from idiots like keith olberman and george takei asking people to identify and harass based on such limited info are almost never worth what happened.

 
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