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The Republican Civil War is over: Trump has won, his opponents have surrendered.


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On 2/21/2021 at 8:14 PM, BladeRunner said:

This is rich coming from the party that has Warren, Sanders and the squad. They move further left every election but it's the GOP that has to take control of the extremists? 

Get outta here.

I am an Independent who has issues with the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party for policy reasons but they do not bully or say the moderates are not Democrats Nor do they threaten to help primary them out of Congress. I also have issues with the Freedom  caucus as far as policy but in addition because they threaten, lie and bully the other Republicans who refuse to weirdly “worship one dude”. The problem for the GOP is Twofold because there are fewer of them and part of the Republicans refused to vote for that dude. I may have missed it but I didn’t hear any Democrat leaders saying they refused to vote for Biden

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Anybody saying this isn't news is arguing, again, like most of the Trump supporters have done for four years, in bad faith. The former president just called the head of the party he still seeks to inf

Nunes vs cow

I'd say this is a fissure, at least. Very rare to hear the top ranking members of a party speak about each other that way. Buckle up. We're going for the soul of the party with two soulless men fighti

23 hours ago, rockaction said:

I think a lot of people underestimate the anger that people feel about having coastal elitism foisted upon them in matters economic and social. Trump is the antithesis of globalized cool and tolerant understanding toward others' differences. He's the enemy of the right enemy, and that can make for some passionate bedfellows in politics.

What's a proper analogy here?  I'd rather poke my eye out than eat a #### sandwich?

The Democratic party soundly rejected the bids of Warren and Sanders.  I know Biden is not your type, but I'd hardly label him a coastal elite.  He falls somewhere on the 45-55 percentile of the left-right spectrum, which is my sweet spot.  

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2 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

What's a proper analogy here?  I'd rather poke my eye out than eat a #### sandwich?

The Democratic party soundly rejected the bids of Warren and Sanders.  I know Biden is not your type, but I'd hardly label him a coastal elite.  He falls somewhere on the 45-55 percentile of the left-right spectrum, which is my sweet spot.  

I think people have misread my posts here to be my take on the matter. I'm talking about other peoples' take on the matter. In other words, this is what your average GOP voter says. Whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant, and not what my posts are about. I think thriftyrocker is making the same assumption you are. I'm not speaking for me. I am one of the hated coastals in almost every sense of the term but economic status.

I'm a big supporter of Biden over Trump, and in general, a supporter of the more moderate Democratic Party positions than I am with the standard GOP position these days. The GOP has completely lost me until they can become a reality-based party again. They need to run off the QAnon and Proud Boys influence on the mainstream element of their party. Democrats should do better with Antifa and BLM, but that's another story for another day. Right now, the Republicans cannot even call to account that which needs to be accounted for, and those who have called it to account are met with vitriol and hate from the townsfolk. It's not even leadership, it's the people that comprise the party. The voters. It's on them.

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7 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think people have misread my posts here to be my take on the matter. I'm talking about other peoples' take on the matter. In other words, this is what your average GOP voter says. Whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant, and not what my posts are about. I think thriftyrocker is making the same assumption you are. I'm not speaking for me. I am one of the hated coastals in almost every sense of the term but economic status.

I'm a big supporter of Biden over Trump, and in general, a supporter of the more moderate Democratic Party positions than I am with the standard GOP position these days. The GOP has completely lost me until they can become a reality-based party again. They need to run off the QAnon and Proud Boys influence on the mainstream element of their party. Democrats should do better with Antifa and BLM, but that's another story for another day. Right now, the Republicans cannot even call to account that which needs to be accounted for, and those who have called it to account are met with vitriol and hate from the townsfolk. It's not even leadership, it's the people that comprise the party. The voters. It's on them.

Completely understood. I know you lean libertarian (little 'l', and big 'L' too, maybe), but in no way do I think you are a Trump supporter.  I should probably upgrade my articulation game. I was mainly attributing to the c-word people (four letters, starts with a 'c' and ends with a 't' - not THAT word, mods!)

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1 minute ago, Mister CIA said:

Completely understood. I know you lean libertarian (little 'l', and big 'L' too, maybe), but in no way to think you are a Trump supporter.  I should probably upgrade my articulation game. I was mainly attributing to the c-word people (four letters, starts with a 'c' and ends with a 't' - not THAT word, mods!)

Yeah, I'm a classical liberal. Small 'l' mainly, with a definite ear for needed expenditures through taxation. Not orthodox at all.

As for the last sentence of your post, I honestly don't know the word you're going for there. Heh. It's my lack of mental acuity at this point.

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5 hours ago, The General said:

46% of Republicans say they would leave to join a Trump party

He can’t win himself, he can wreck Republican Party. Not that he’s ever create his own party but this is quite the leverage. Of these 46% I wonder how many would be considered far right. 

I think that poll is misleading. If you asked Republicans in 1984 how many of them would leave to join a Reagan party the number might be higher. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I think that poll is misleading. If you asked Republicans in 1984 how many of them would leave to join a Reagan party the number might be higher. 

Way higher.

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Just now, rockaction said:

Way higher.

Right. But not necessarily Democrats for an Obama party. I could be wrong, but Democrats have always struck me as more about the party and Republicans more about the personality. 

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think that poll is misleading. If you asked Republicans in 1984 how many of them would leave to join a Reagan party the number might be higher. 

Why is that relevant?

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26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Because I don’t think 46% of Republicans would really leave the GOP. Enough might leave to win the election for the Democrat, but nowhere near 46%. 

That’s enough leverage if Trump wants to use it. If these numbers hold he gets to use this in very conservative areas, extreme right wing areas where he has sway. Not good for the GOP.

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7 hours ago, lazyike said:

I am an Independent who has issues with the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party for policy reasons but they do not bully or say the moderates are not Democrats Nor do they threaten to help primary them out of Congress. I also have issues with the Freedom  caucus as far as policy but in addition because they threaten, lie and bully the other Republicans who refuse to weirdly “worship one dude”. The problem for the GOP is Twofold because there are fewer of them and part of the Republicans refused to vote for that dude. I may have missed it but I didn’t hear any Democrat leaders saying they refused to vote for Biden

I am pretty sure AOC primaried a couple Democrats from the party.  In fact, I am also sure that she has said in the past that they need to get moderates out of the party.  people who wouldn't take the knee at the altar of socialism like the squad does.

I don't think you're remembering history correctly at all.  So your entire post above is based on a lie.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/22/aoc-dings-dnc-targeted-to-white-moderates/

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/11/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-democrats-establisment-1093728

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/17/ocasio-cortez-throws-support-behind-campaign-to-primary-democrats-1000529

I mean, seriously, even a cursory search pulls all of this up.

Edited by BladeRunner
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Ok so you got me there as far as one member of the House(who is not a ranking member in the House) sought to primary some members. But no way does what AOC has said and done rise to the level of what Sen Romney, Senator Sasse and Rep Kinzinger have done with their scathing remarks who made it known they definitely didn’t support or would ever vote for a Trump nor rise to the level of what the current most powerful GOP who holds office, Senator McConnell said with his remarks following the impeachment.  McConnell suggested  that Attorneys General go after a Trump. And I almost forgot to mention Rep Liz Cheney ( 3rd highest member of the GOP in the House)  said “ There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.”  And you had GOP  7 Senators and 10 GOP members of the a House who supported impeachment. Sorry but you are falling short, very short of coming up with anything equivalent. 

Copied from  your links

“The remarks — a convention formality — left some people (and news organizations) believing she was not backing Joe Biden. She quickly clarified to her fans that she was”

She’s new here, feeling her way around,” added Rep. Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.). “She doesn’t understand how the place works yet.”

“Ocasio-Cortez, through her staff, declined to be interviewed for this story. But there are signs that she’s getting the message, at least when it comes to backing primary challenges against her colleagues“.
 

Ocasio-Cortez said at the sit-in that she was not there to protest Pelosi but to support the activists and their agenda.

“Should Leader Pelosi become the next speaker of the House, we need to tell her that we’ve got her back in showing and pursuing the most progressive energy agenda that this country has ever seen,” she told them. “This is about unity. This is about solidarity.”

 

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7 hours ago, lazyike said:

Ok so you got me there as far as one member of the House(who is not a ranking member in the House) sought to primary some members. But no way does what AOC has said and done rise to the level of what Sen Romney, Senator Sasse and Rep Kinzinger have done with their scathing remarks who made it known they definitely didn’t support or would ever vote for a Trump nor rise to the level of what the current most powerful GOP who holds office, Senator McConnell said with his remarks following the impeachment.  McConnell suggested  that Attorneys General go after a Trump. And I almost forgot to mention Rep Liz Cheney ( 3rd highest member of the GOP in the House)  said “ There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.”  And you had GOP  7 Senators and 10 GOP members of the a House who supported impeachment. Sorry but you are falling short, very short of coming up with anything equivalent. 

I think the contingents on the left wing that want to cut the cord between them and democrats has grown with each election cycle. Are they now where the other side of the aisle currently finds themselves? No, of course not. But an argument could be made that where they are now is where republicans were sometime in the last decade or so.

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7 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Haven't some already?  Could be temporary...could be they are not willing to support Trump any longer.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/politics/republican-voters-politics-sandiego-california-capitol/509-4fee14ee-cff9-49b2-a5b1-6fa1916f439c

I thought I saw a poll yesterday that 50% would leave the R's if Trump went 3rd party.  

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14 hours ago, Roy L Fewks said:

Nobody is leaving the party. Geesh.

I doubt there will be any split as well...but their fate is in Don’s hands. He seems rational and level headed. Should be fine!

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On 2/22/2021 at 4:13 PM, The General said:

46% of Republicans say they would leave to join a Trump party

He can’t win himself, he can wreck Republican Party. Not that he’s ever create his own party but this is quite the leverage. Of these 46% I wonder how many would be considered far right. 

I think their headline is a bit misleading.  It says 46% of Republicans but in the article it says 46% of Trump voters.  There's a lot of Trump voters who aren't Republicans.  The premise is still somewhat the same, but not near as dire as the headline would have you believe.

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6 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I think the contingents on the left wing that want to cut the cord between them and democrats has grown with each election cycle. Are they now where the other side of the aisle currently finds themselves? No, of course not. But an argument could be made that where they are now is where republicans were sometime in the last decade or so.

I don't see how moderate Dems can align themselves with the extremism that the party seems to be embracing.  The far left has put their cards on the table because they are emboldened right now.....people will hopefully start to wake up from the lather they got worked up into over orange man, and realize theres some crazy ideas being pushed into mainstream.

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4 minutes ago, Manster said:

I don't see how moderate Dems can align themselves with the extremism that the party seems to be embracing.  The far left has put their cards on the table because they are emboldened right now.....people will hopefully start to wake up from the lather they got worked up into over orange man, and realize theres some crazy ideas being pushed into mainstream.

I think those that fall somewhere in the middle have had it with the fringes on both parties. Reasonable and pragmatic isn't an interesting nor profitable platform though. 

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38 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I think their headline is a bit misleading.  It says 46% of Republicans but in the article it says 46% of Trump voters.  There's a lot of Trump voters who aren't Republicans.  The premise is still somewhat the same, but not near as dire as the headline would have you believe.

Good points.

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No rift in the Republican party?    Watch 2 Republican leaders of the House McCarthy and Cheney clash on whether Trump should speak at CPAC. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/02/24/kevin-mccarthy-liz-cheney-donald-trump-cpac-republican-party-sot-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/
 

:lmao:
 

While I don’t agree with the very conservative Liz Cheney on some issues I do love her moxie and the former Republican in me hopes she keeps it up and gets re-elected in 2 years.

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On 2/23/2021 at 10:05 PM, Manster said:

I don't see how moderate Dems can align themselves with the extremism that the party seems to be embracing.  The far left has put their cards on the table because they are emboldened right now.....people will hopefully start to wake up from the lather they got worked up into over orange man, and realize theres some crazy ideas being pushed into mainstream.

They don't seem to be.  They chose Biden as their representative :shrug: 

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On 2/23/2021 at 8:48 PM, Shula-holic said:

I think their headline is a bit misleading.  It says 46% of Republicans but in the article it says 46% of Trump voters.  There's a lot of Trump voters who aren't Republicans.  The premise is still somewhat the same, but not near as dire as the headline would have you believe.

Is this a sizeable number?

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10 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:
On 2/23/2021 at 6:48 PM, Shula-holic said:

I think their headline is a bit misleading.  It says 46% of Republicans but in the article it says 46% of Trump voters.  There's a lot of Trump voters who aren't Republicans.  The premise is still somewhat the same, but not near as dire as the headline would have you believe.

Is this a sizeable number?

It's almost impossible to accurately calculate Trump's non-Republican support, just as it would be almost impossible to accurately calculate Biden's non-Democrat support. Party affiliation is a fickle thing. Gallup has been polling voters for years (see here), and the number of people who admit to being in a specific party can fluctuate significantly from month to month.

So, on the one hand, you could dismiss claims of a Republican civil war by saying "Oh, that poll doesn't count because it includes all the independents and Democrats who voted for Trump!" But the problem with that mindset is that a sizeable portion of so-called "independents" are conservatives who vote Republican on a fairly consistent basis, anyway. (The same Gallup polling reflects this, with "Republican + Republican-leaning independents" making up roughly 45% of the respondents.) So, if 46% of those independents join the Trump Party, it would be almost as devastating to the Republican Party.

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1. There are extremists and wackos in the Republican Party, and their are extremists and wackos in the Democratic Party. 
2. The Democratic Party is winning their struggle against their extremists and wackos. 
3. The Republican Party is losing their struggle against their extremists and wackos. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 7:20 AM, lazyike said:

While I don’t agree with the very conservative Liz Cheney on some issues

Disagreement on policy is a good thing and my pipe dream is we get to a day in which that is 'the problem.'

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Just now, dawgtrails said:

The worshipping of Trump is such a weird phenomenon. I don't think iIhave ever seen anything like it and just don't get it. https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169?s=20

 

It is one of the strangest things we will see in this time on Earth. Not sure there is a human being alive less worthy of adulation.

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On 2/22/2021 at 9:48 PM, rockaction said:

I think people have misread my posts here to be my take on the matter. I'm talking about other peoples' take on the matter. In other words, this is what your average GOP voter says. Whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant, and not what my posts are about. I think thriftyrocker is making the same assumption you are. I'm not speaking for me. I am one of the hated coastals in almost every sense of the term but economic status.

I'm a big supporter of Biden over Trump, and in general, a supporter of the more moderate Democratic Party positions than I am with the standard GOP position these days. The GOP has completely lost me until they can become a reality-based party again. They need to run off the QAnon and Proud Boys influence on the mainstream element of their party. Democrats should do better with Antifa and BLM, but that's another story for another day. Right now, the Republicans cannot even call to account that which needs to be accounted for, and those who have called it to account are met with vitriol and hate from the townsfolk. It's not even leadership, it's the people that comprise the party. The voters. It's on them.

:goodposting:

I've been a Republican all my life, have only voted against my party twice, once during the Clinton years and this past election. Until the bolded gets worked out, it's going to be tough for me to back any GOP candidate that supports this nonsense. If the orange dude is the best they can offer than I'll throw another vote away in 2024.

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6 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

The worshipping of Trump is such a weird phenomenon. I don't think iIhave ever seen anything like it and just don't get it. https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169?s=20

 

I don't get this either and I don't really have any desire to get it.

It seems like half the stuff that goes on in Trumpland is some sort of elaborate troll-job that the Trumpers just fall right into.  I could see an anti-Trump type creating this statue as a way of satirizing Trump, but you can't satirize this stuff.  His supporters will pick it and run with it completely oblivious to the fact that they're being mocked.

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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

:goodposting:

I've been a Republican all my life, have only voted against my party twice, once during the Clinton years and this past election. Until the bolded gets worked out, it's going to be tough for me to back any GOP candidate that supports this nonsense. If the orange dude is the best they can offer than I'll throw another vote away in 2024.

Yep. And as much as you'll see me on the boards admonishing and sticking it to the left when they go to excesses, I'll still be voting Democratic for a while. They're the only viable coalition party right now, in my estimation. I would rather vote for the party best able to curtail its economic, statist left and SJW wing than vote for a party actively courting the Proud Boys, conspiracy theorists, and the working class via economic protectionism from the statist right. Especially on economic issues, the Republicans seem to have done a 180 and have given up on laissez-faire economics and have relinquished the economic sphere to state control, remaining nothing like it tried to be in '64, nothing like it was in '80, and certainly nowhere near palatable in its current iteration.

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't get this either and I don't really have any desire to get it.

It seems like half the stuff that goes on in Trumpland is some sort of elaborate troll-job that the Trumpers just fall right into.  I could see an anti-Trump type creating this statue as a way of satirizing Trump, but you can't satirize this stuff.  His supporters will pick it and run with it completely oblivious to the fact that they're being mocked.

It seems like it borders on performance art, doesn't it, these overtures by Trump and his supporters? Or they have such a defiant attitude that they embrace the mockery and turn it on its head. I'm not sure they're that meta, or that smart, but they could be. Some awfully smart people have voted for this guy and continue to defend him so long as they get what they want. 

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Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.  There will be no civil war.  Republicans will continue to swallow any objections and pretend their morals are in line with Trump, just as they have since 2015.

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30 minutes ago, moleculo said:

Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.  There will be no civil war.  Republicans will continue to swallow any objections and pretend their morals are in line with Trump, just as they have since 2015.

Nope. :hey:. And many others disposed towards the right won't be voting for them, either. They're running on nothing but vapors at this point right now.

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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

Nope. :hey:. And many others disposed towards the right won't be voting for them, either. They're running on nothing but vapors at this point right now.

You're strongly outnumbered though by those that adore and revere Trump.

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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

Nope. :hey:. And many others disposed towards the right won't be voting for them, either. They're running on nothing but vapors at this point right now.

Well then you, sir, are no true [s]scotsman[\s] republican.

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13 hours ago, rockaction said:

Nope. :hey:. And many others disposed towards the right won't be voting for them, either. They're running on nothing but vapors at this point right now.

You're not republican; you're one of many different flavors of conservative. 

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13 hours ago, rockaction said:

Nope. :hey:. And many others disposed towards the right won't be voting for them, either. They're running on nothing but vapors at this point right now.

Sorry to break it to you GB...you are no longer a "Republican" in the modern day definition they've come up with.  :shrug: 

ETA:  ####....I couldn't have scrolled down THREE posts?!?!?!?!?!  :bag: 

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22 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

The worshipping of Trump is such a weird phenomenon. I don't think iIhave ever seen anything like it and just don't get it. https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169?s=20

 

I don't either.  Yes, he made a lot of people money when things were going well.  In the last year when things went bad, he acted clusless.  Now some blame can be placed on the D's for not working with him.  At the end of the day, it falls back to him.  

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On 2/27/2021 at 7:49 AM, FairWarning said:

I don't either.  Yes, he made a lot of people money when things were going well.  In the last year when things went bad, he acted clusless.  Now some blame can be placed on the D's for not working with him.  At the end of the day, it falls back to him.  

Right, this is overly simplistic but- when you operate with disregard to contingency operations go up when things go well. Cause you aren't invested in contingency. The problem is when they don't, which is why any good operation has a contingency and adapts to changes in the surrounding environment. 

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36 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Right, this is overly simplistic but- when you operate with disregard to contingency operations go up when things go well. Cause you aren't invested in contingency. The problem is when they don't, which is why any good operation has a contingency and adapts to changes in the surrounding environment. 

We know he was going to take 100% for that, just like he pointed fingers for the last year.  

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On 2/26/2021 at 8:05 AM, dawgtrails said:

The worshipping of Trump is such a weird phenomenon. I don't think iIhave ever seen anything like it and just don't get it. https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169?s=20

 

Apparently you never heard of Kennedy, Clinton or Obama.  If you thought worshipping of Trump was bad, you need to go back into history.

Worshipping of ANYONE is bad, but let's not act like this is a new phenomena.  In fact, the left has built it's entire following on POTUS and celebrity worship.

Edited by BladeRunner
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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Apparently you never heard of Kennedy, Clinton or Obama.  If you thought worshipping of Trump was bad, you need to go back into history.

Worshipping of ANYONE is bad, but let's not act like this is a new phenomena.  In fact, the left has built it's entire following on POTUS and celebrity worship.

If either of Clinton or Obama lost the house, the senate, and the presidency we would not have seen a gold statue of them being wheeled around at some socialism for America conference in San Francisco

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24 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

If either of Clinton or Obama lost the house, the senate, and the presidency we would not have seen a gold statue of them being wheeled around at some socialism for America conference in San Francisco

I guess we'll never know for sure.  :shrug:

Pure speculation on your part, but I've seen first hand how the left fawns over it's celebrities and POTUS's.  I highly doubt they would have just let it go.

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  • timschochet changed the title to The Republican Civil War is over: Trump has won, his opponents have surrendered.

Well, if nothing else, this makes voting in elections easier when it comes to who to never vote for. Anyone with Trump’s approval will not get my vote, at any level of government.

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