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The Republican Civil War is over: Trump has won, his opponents have surrendered. (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
2. Up until the about second decade of 20th century, the Democratic Party was not “the Left”; it was basically to the right of the Republicans. 
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There was no “Right” and “Left” in US political vernacular prior to the 20th century.  According to Google NGram the terms “left-wing” and “right-wing” didn’t start appearing in English-language books until after the Bolshevik Revolution.

 
dkp993 said:
He didn’t but has.  But that’s the point I was making.  The “left” as it’s defined today is liberals.  The liberals of the day during the civil war were not pro slavery and were on the side of freeing the slaves.  
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Noted liberal hero Nathan Bedford Forest alone proves you #wrong.

 
ekbeats said:
There was no “Right” and “Left” in US political vernacular prior to the 20th century.  According to Google NGram the terms “left-wing” and “right-wing” didn’t start appearing in English-language books until after the Bolshevik Revolution.
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Sure but it doesn’t matter. Prior to 1912 the Republican Party was more liberal than the Democratic Party. Or progressive. Or whatever you want to call it. Republicans were in favor of use of government to effect political and cultural and economic change; Democrats were opposed. 

 
dkp993 said:
He didn’t but has.  But that’s the point I was making.  The “left” as it’s defined today is liberals.  The liberals of the day during the civil war were not pro slavery and were on the side of freeing the slaves.  
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I have no idea if you are right - and even if you are it's not relevant 100+ years later

 
The Dude said:
I have no idea if you are right - and even if you are it's not relevant 100+ years later
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Sure.  And I’m not a liberal so I’m not defending “my” position. Just trying point out the spirit of what blade is saying isn’t correct. Technically it is as it’s Democrats but when speaking of the “left” or liberals it isn’t.  That’s all. 

 
dkp993 said:
Sure.  And I’m not a liberal so I’m not defending “my” position. Just trying point out the spirit of what blade is saying isn’t correct. Technically it is as it’s Democrats but when speaking of the “left” or liberals it isn’t.  That’s all. 
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Simply put...during the time "liberals" were the Republican party and "conservatives" were the Democratic party...today, the only thing that's changed is the party name...."liberals" are now the Dems and "conservatives" the GOP.

 
dkp993 said:
Sure.  And I’m not a liberal so I’m not defending “my” position. Just trying point out the spirit of what blade is saying isn’t correct. Technically it is as it’s Democrats but when speaking of the “left” or liberals it isn’t.  That’s all. 
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Oh - I lost track - if you are arguing against Blade on anything - we are on the same page

 
The Commish said:
Simply put...during the time "liberals" were the Republican party and "conservatives" were the Democratic party...today, the only thing that's changed is the party name...."liberals" are now the Dems and "conservatives" the GOP.
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Exactly.  As I said in my first post yesterday.  

 
timschochet said:
It isn’t. He’s not 100% correct, but far more correct than you are on this subject. 
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Negative.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.  :shrug:

As long as liberals try to revise the history of slavery, the KKK and Jim Crowe and blame everyone else besides themselves I'll be here, bringing the truth about it.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Negative.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.  :shrug:

As long as liberals try to revise the history of slavery, the KKK and Jim Crowe and blame everyone else besides themselves I'll be here, bringing the truth about it.
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You don’t have any truth to bring. Nothing about what you’ve said about blaming liberals for slavery and whatever else I didn’t care enough to correct you on has been correct.

 
BladeRunner said:
Negative.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.  :shrug:

As long as liberals try to revise the history of slavery, the KKK and Jim Crowe and blame everyone else besides themselves I'll be here, bringing the truth about it.
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I hate to do this to you but if you’re going to continue to spread this nonsense then I feel compelled: 
 

I challenge you to come up with a single historical source that says that liberals are responsible for slavery or the KKK or Jim Crow. Not Democrats, not the Democratic Party, but liberals. You made the claim, now please provide the evidence. 

 
timschochet said:
I hate to do this to you but if you’re going to continue to spread this nonsense then I feel compelled: 
 

I challenge you to come up with a single historical source that says that liberals are responsible for slavery or the KKK or Jim Crow. Not Democrats, not the Democratic Party, but liberals. You made the claim, now please provide the evidence. 
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Liberals align with the Democrat Party.  it's one in the same.  :shrug:

 
It is sad.  :sadbanana:

Whenever Democrats are on the wrong side of history they proclaim that they were "Republicans back then".   I don't know why they do this, but they do.  It's almost as if they are trying to pin their atrocities on anyone else but themselves.  :shrug:

I have to admit:  For a bunch of posters who hate the GOP and conservatives and make fun and rail on  them every chance you get you sure are quick to proclaim you were Republicans back in the day when history wasn't on your side. 

 
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I mean...Strom Thurmond is a literal example of the migration...he was at the very END of the migration which basically completed in the 1964-65-66 range.  My grandfather is another example, but going the other way...in 1935 he switched from Republican to Democrat and never looked back....as bleeding heart as they come...we always had good "discussions" when he found out my views different from his.  He was a trip.

 
Never seen a bunch of lefties in such a rush to declare themselves Republicans when history confronts them with the ugly truth.

 
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BladeRunner said:
It is sad.  :sadbanana:

Whenever Democrats are on the wrong side of history they proclaim that they were "Republicans back then".   I don't know why they do this, but they do.  It's almost as if they are trying to pin their atrocities on anyone else but themselves.  :shrug:

I have to admit:  For a bunch of posters who hate the GOP and conservatives and make fun and rail on  them every chance you get you sure are quick to proclaim you were Republicans back in the day when history wasn't on your side. 
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I love it when you and John project your distain for the other side on others posting in these threads.   

 
BladeRunner said:
And it feels like you guys keep focusing on post 1960 as if history before then didn't exist.  :shrug:
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History matters.  But to me what matters more is what is currently going on.   I don't care who supported what 100 years ago or who started the KKK near as much as I care about what party somebody in the KKK is more likely to belong to in 2021.  

 
BladeRunner said:
And it feels like you guys keep focusing on post 1960 as if history before then didn't exist.  :shrug:
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Considering that your grasp of history prior to 1960 is almost entirely incorrect, I have to wonder why you cling so doggedly to things that have either been disproven or never even asserted as fact.

 
Kal El said:
Considering that your grasp of history prior to 1960 is almost entirely incorrect, I have to wonder why you cling so doggedly to things that have either been disproven or never even asserted as fact.
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Yeah, that's just not true.  Besides, someone who thinks history STARTED in1960 probably shouldn't be criticizing someone else's "grasp" of history.

 
KarmaPolice said:
History matters.  But to me what matters more is what is currently going on.   I don't care who supported what 100 years ago or who started the KKK near as much as I care about what party somebody in the KKK is more likely to belong to in 2021.  
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In 2021, the racists are the "white saviors" who think they're the heroes of the black people.  :shrug:

 
BladeRunner said:
Yeah, that's just not true.  Besides, someone who thinks history STARTED in1960 probably shouldn't be criticizing someone else's "grasp" of history.
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What was it you said in the Jan 6th thread earlier, “the truth shall set you free?” I’d highly suggest following that and the other teachings from the Messiah. But I digress, because while it would be highly entertaining to illustrate every single point you have wrong about history, I have a Lightning playoff game to follow, and you won’t change your incorrect viewpoints anyway.

 
Kal El said:
What was it you said in the Jan 6th thread earlier, “the truth shall set you free?” I’d highly suggest following that and the other teachings from the Messiah. But I digress, because while it would be highly entertaining to illustrate every single point you have wrong about history, I have a Lightning playoff game to follow, and you won’t change your incorrect viewpoints anyway.
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You guys aren't changing your incorrect versions of history either.  :shrug:

I guess it's a wash. :thumbup:

 
BladeRunner said:
You guys aren't changing your incorrect versions of history either.  :shrug:

I guess it's a wash. :thumbup:
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That’s another place where you’re wrong. For example, I used to think Columbus discovered America, and that he was a hero for doing so. He wasn’t even the first European to reach the continent, and he missed it by 500 years. He was also a terrible person, and the people of the time didn’t think the world was flat, and they knew he underestimated the supplies he needed. I’m happy to learn new things, but they have to be factual. Your view of history isn’t.

 
Sea Duck said:
The Democrats have always been the party of big government, and therefore have always been "liberal" in that sense.
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I disagree.

I've often seen claims that the Republican Party, when it was first formed, was the party of big government. (E.g., here. I haven't read that article, just googled for a headline like that and it came up. But there's no shortage of similar articles.)

 
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