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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Kadarius Toney, Giants


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Interesting counter-take. I’ve had three rookie drafts. In one he went in Round 1, but in other two he went mid-to-late Round 2. We all think we’re smarter than NFL GMs - although admittedly Gettleman

People really liked Aiyuk last year. He just fell because there were so many players to like. Taylor, CEH,Dobbins, Swift, Akers, Lamb, Jeudy, Higgins, shRuggs, Jefferson, Burrow, Reagor, Mims, Shenaul

2021 NFL draft film room: Florida WR Kadarius Toney

Florida, Kentucky, LSU, Notre Dame, Wake Forest pro days: Kyle Pitts, Ja'Marr Chase post eye-popping 40s

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Toney posted an unofficial 40 time of 4.44, according to NFL Network's Kimberly Jones. This led Jeremiah -- who loves Toney's playmaking ability and "dynamic" route-running skills, but initially wasn't sure about his straight-line speed -- to make a simple pronouncement on NFL Network's Path to the Draft Pro Day Special:

"He's a first-round wide receiver. Absolutely."

Toney also soared 11 feet, 4 inches on his broad jump, per Reese's Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy. That's serious explosiveness for an exciting slot receiver prospect who offers NFL clubs the ability to get open quickly on short routes and make big plays after the catch. Checking in at 5-11 5/8 and 193 pounds, Toney also brings a high level of toughness in fighting for extra yardage and rarely running out of bounds.

 

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Florida WR Kadarius Toney ran a 4.41 second 40-yard dash at his pro day workout.

In addition to Toney's (5'11/189) lightning fast 4.41 second 40-yard dash, he also wowed with a 39.5" vertical jump and an 11'4" broad jump that would have ranked fourth among all 2020 NFL Scouting Combine invitees. His overall RAS of 8.87 bodes well for his chances at success at the next level. effectively as he is catching it. Toney averaged 8.5 YPC on his 19 carries while posting a 70-984-10 receiving line for the high-flying Gators last fall. Toney has entered the late Round 1 discussion due to his explosive athleticism.

SOURCE: The Athletic

Apr 2, 2021, 6:13 PM ET

 

 

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The Athletic's NFL draft analyst Dane Brugler ranks Florida WR Kadarius Toney as the fourth best wide receiver in the 2021 NFL Draft.

Toney (5'11/189) is one of a host of other wide outs that are vying to be chosen as WR4 after Waddle, Smith and Chase are off the board. He ran a lightning fast 4.41 second 40-yard dash, he also wowed with a 39.5" vertical jump and an 11'4" broad jump that would have ranked fourth among all 2020 NFL Scouting Combine invitees. His overall RAS of 8.87 bodes well for his chances at success at the next level. effectively as he is catching it. Toney averaged 8.5 YPC on his 19 carries while posting a 70-984-10 receiving line for the high-flying Gators last fall. Toney has entered the late Round 1 discussion due to his explosive athleticism.

SOURCE: The Athletic

Apr 9, 2021, 6:38 PM ET

 

 

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Do not want. Too dependent on scheme. Too much of a gadget guy. Raw from positional switch so he didn't have a lot of production until 2020. Late breakout age. Not my cup of tea.

Athletic as heck, though. Can leave defenders stupid. Just not who I want.

Edited by rockaction
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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Do not want. Too dependent on scheme. Too much of a gadget guy. Raw from positional switch so he didn't have a lot of production until 2020. Late breakout age. Not my cup of tea.

Athletic as heck, though. Can leave defenders stupid. Just not who I want.

I was absolutely shocked to see Waldman have him so high. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I was absolutely shocked to see Waldman have him so high. 

Waldman's pure film. He must see something.

Then again, he has Sermon #1 absolutely among running backs, and it doesn't seem too close. So one takes Waldman with a grain of salt sometimes when it comes to him butting up against consensus. He loves guys that never pan out sometimes. Now, a lot of the panning out is situation, luck, and draft capital in addition to talent, but you know what I'm saying.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Waldman's pure film. He must see something.

Then again, he has Sermon #1 absolutely among running backs, and it doesn't seem too close. So one takes Waldman with a grain of salt sometimes when it comes to him butting up against consensus. He loves guys that never pan out sometimes. Now, a lot of the panning out is situation, luck, and draft capital in addition to talent, but you know what I'm saying.

Oh I know he is. Being a WR convert with limited experience who almost everyone I have heard describe him as a gadget guy, I assumed Waldman would hate him. Instead I think he has him ranked top 5 and said he has the best releases of any prospect. That just really surprised me. But yeah he also Sermon #1 and I think also had Hakeem Butler #1 that year. 

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I watched a highlight reel on him a few weeks ago and my comp is Walter Payton. And I don't mean that in a good way. He leads head first (successfully) a bunch and he is sort of wild and reckless in the way he runs. He has the moves, the juice, the vision and he has the fire but he isn't Walter and I'm afraid he could get himself killed out there. I think he can be more than just a gadget scheme dependent guy but that *is* the more likely bet at this point. I don't mind taking a shot on him though. We will see what the NFL thinks. 

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1 minute ago, need2know said:

I will jump off a bridge

Wait until the Jets trade down and select Mac Jones or something like that. Then you'll see where eagles dare...

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The worst part about a guy like Toney is he'll do something cool with the ball in his hand, just when you're ready to cut him.

He'll give you the Cordarrelle Patterson treatment.  

 

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Are people down on him primarily because of the 1st round talk?  

I think he looks like a high upside guy, but I'm starting to feel confident he'll fall to the late 2nd/even 3rd round of rookie drafts.  I can get on board at that price.

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51 minutes ago, jm192 said:

Are people down on him primarily because of the 1st round talk?  

I think he looks like a high upside guy, but I'm starting to feel confident he'll fall to the late 2nd/even 3rd round of rookie drafts.  I can get on board at that price.

Age, limited experience and a lot of people feel like he plays out of control. 

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24 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Age, limited experience and a lot of people feel like he plays out of control

I don't even watch CFB so my comments above were based purely on the one highlight reel I watched. I am legitimately curious if you have heard other people say that though.

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13 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I don't even watch CFB so my comments above were based purely on the one highlight reel I watched. I am legitimately curious if you have heard other people say that though.

Absolutely, several draft/dynasty people. Specifically mentioned he gets his shoulders out in front of his body and is out of balance a lot. 

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4 hours ago, Faust said:

2021 NFL Draft Comps: Florida WR Kadarius Toney could find success as the next Percy Harvin
 

(PFF Premium Content; however, the table of player comparisons can be viewed)

That's been the comparison forever. At least amongst Florida people. He's basically a bigger Harvin without the migrants and such 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Absolutely, several draft/dynasty people. Specifically mentioned he gets his shoulders out in front of his body and is out of balance a lot. 

So what you're saying is that from one highlight reel I am as good as an analyst that gets paid to do it. Huh. What does his lowlight reel look like? Ok JK but yeah I took him in a startup at WR8, before Amon-Ra and Tylan Wallace (who I also took) and Dyami Brown. He went after vets Corey Davis and Mims and I took him with Gabriel Davis still on the board, but I also got Davis a little later. I guess I would call it a luxury reach and I will likely try to flip him once he gets drafted in a couple weeks.

 

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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

Are people down on him primarily because of the 1st round talk?  

I think he looks like a high upside guy, but I'm starting to feel confident he'll fall to the late 2nd/even 3rd round of rookie drafts.  I can get on board at that price.

I think talking pure fantasy people are down on him but that's just my Opinion. A lot of scouts and people feel from a pure football perspective he's a late 1st rounder at the very least because of his high potential as a HR hitter any time he has the ball in his hands. I've seen Tyreke Hill comparisons without the open speed that Hill has as well. 

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8 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I think talking pure fantasy people are down on him but that's just my Opinion. A lot of scouts and people feel from a pure football perspective he's a late 1st rounder at the very least because of his high potential as a HR hitter any time he has the ball in his hands. I've seen Tyreke Hill comparisons without the open speed that Hill has as well. 

The people putting him in the 1st seem to the be the Kiper/McShay/Jeremiah big draft people who I assume go mostly based on their connections and rumors. The people I heard talk about him at The Draft Network which is pretty much non-fantasy and all tape grinding weren't all that impressed with Toney. I don't think I've heard actually heard anyone not employed by ESPN, NFLN or Matt Waldman even hint at Toney being worth a 1st round pick. It also seems like there are 2-3 players every draft now that get comped to Hill and it's got to stop. Toney is nothing like Hill at all IMO. 

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On 4/15/2021 at 6:11 AM, Ilov80s said:

The people putting him in the 1st seem to the be the Kiper/McShay/Jeremiah big draft people who I assume go mostly based on their connections and rumors. The people I heard talk about him at The Draft Network which is pretty much non-fantasy and all tape grinding weren't all that impressed with Toney. I don't think I've heard actually heard anyone not employed by ESPN, NFLN or Matt Waldman even hint at Toney being worth a 1st round pick. It also seems like there are 2-3 players every draft now that get comped to Hill and it's got to stop. Toney is nothing like Hill at all IMO. 

If anyone is compared to Hill it should be Waddle.

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3 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

If anyone is compared to Hill it should be Waddle.

Agree 100%. He is probably the closest player to Hill that has come out since Hill. 

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Fox Sports analyst Peter Schrager speculates that Florida WR Kadarius Toney could go in the top-15.

Schrager was on the PFF "2 for 1 Drafts" show when he made the bold proclamation. He wasn't content to hint at just a top-15 finish and went one step further saying "Kadarius Toney might go top-15, he might go before Devonta Smith." For that to happen, it would mean Toney (5'11/189) rocketed up draft boards while Smith would have experienced a precipitous fall. This is the first such speculation on this to be floated out in the draft-sphere, but with the NFL Draft now just two weeks away, expect to hear more bold takes emerge around the media landscape. 

SOURCE: PFF.com

Apr 16, 2021, 4:36 PM ET

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Agree 100%. He is probably the closest player to Hill that has come out since Hill. 

Tell me what I’m missing with Toney that would consider him a first round pick?

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On 4/14/2021 at 6:56 PM, Ilov80s said:

Oh I know he is. Being a WR convert with limited experience who almost everyone I have heard describe him as a gadget guy, I assumed Waldman would hate him. Instead I think he has him ranked top 5 and said he has the best releases of any prospect. That just really surprised me. But yeah he also Sermon #1 and I think also had Hakeem Butler #1 that year. 

In fairness, Matt was "On the couch" and said he has a nagging feeling Toney is the most likely to bust, or something to that effect, apparently he has a knucklehead aspect to him

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2 hours ago, Penguin said:

In fairness, Matt was "On the couch" and said he has a nagging feeling Toney is the most likely to bust, or something to that effect, apparently he has a knucklehead aspect to him

The summary of Matt's position is Toney is a top 5 WR but based on things he has heard, KT could have a behavioral issue, 

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8 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Tell me what I’m missing with Toney that would consider him a first round pick?

IDK, I was referring to Waddle 

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Still passing on Toney at his ADP in rookie mocks. I won't have a pick to select him, it seems, because I don't think he's more than a third rounder. I see a lot of bigger receivers that I'm partial towards that have similar production profiles. I'd rather take a chance on the fast and athletic bigs that haven't popped off yet due to better reasons than Toney. That's me. YMMV.

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7 hours ago, rockaction said:

Still passing on Toney at his ADP in rookie mocks. I won't have a pick to select him, it seems, because I don't think he's more than a third rounder. I see a lot of bigger receivers that I'm partial towards that have similar production profiles. I'd rather take a chance on the fast and athletic bigs that haven't popped off yet due to better reasons than Toney. That's me. YMMV.

A good example of that would be Terry.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

A good example of that would be Terry.

Yeah, he'd be one. I also have guys that have legitimate QB excuses for their (somewhat in one case) lack of production. Don't want to divulge too much.

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12 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, he'd be one. I also have guys that have legitimate QB excuses for their (somewhat in one case) lack of production. Don't want to divulge too much.

Seth Williams?  Not for me probably, but I can see a dart throw in the 4th round of rookie drafts.

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43 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, he'd be one. I also have guys that have legitimate QB excuses for their (somewhat in one case) lack of production. Don't want to divulge too much.

Terry, Williams, Palmer, Smith-Marsette, Imatorbhebhe...there's a bunch of those types this year. 

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31 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Seth Williams?  Not for me probably, but I can see a dart throw in the 4th round of rookie drafts.

Seth Williams has a second round ADP in rookie drafts per Dynasty League Football. He's WR12, actually. And yes, him.

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

Terry, Williams, Palmer, Smith-Marsette, Imatorbhebhe...there's a bunch of those types this year. 

Yep. Bunch of guys if you value size and speed combos. There's another who I frankly had in the forefront of my mind. He's going late third/early fourth now, but that's not too for a cry from 23, which I hold.

 

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Seth Williams has a second round ADP in rookie drafts per Dynasty League Football. He's WR12, actually. And yes, him.

I don't think I would draft him in the 2nd round of a dynasty rookie draft.  If what you're saying is true, I suppose I won't have Williams on any of my dynasty teams.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I don't think I would draft him in the 2nd round of a dynasty rookie draft.  If what you're saying is true, I suppose I won't have Williams on any of my dynasty teams.

Yeah, it's true. He's 22nd off of the board. Who would you take ahead of him given that it's a weak RB class when all seems said and done?

Right now it goes Chase, Bateman, D. Smith, R. Moore, Waddle, T. Marshall, T. Wallace, E. Moore, A. Ra-St. Brown, Toney, D. Brown, and then Williams. The next guys are Terry, Amari Rodgers, Tutu Atwell.

I think that's about the extent of it. So WR12.

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13 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yep. Bunch of guys if you value size and speed combos. There's another who I frankly had in the forefront of my mind. He's going late third/early fourth now, but that's not too for a cry from 23, which I hold.

 

I bet I know who you have in mind and I really like him too. 

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23 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

I bet I know who you have in mind and I really like him too. 

Receiver or chanteuse?

These days, you never know.

And I wouldn't reach like that but I don't pick again until he's surely gone in the fifth. In that league I have 4, 5, 16, 20, 22, 23. then no third or fourth rounder to speak of. :(

Used them in addressing different needs. Rather have six in the first two than two in the first two.

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25 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, it's true. He's 22nd off of the board. Who would you take ahead of him given that it's a weak RB class when all seems said and done?

Right now it goes Chase, Bateman, D. Smith, R. Moore, Waddle, T. Marshall, T. Wallace, E. Moore, A. Ra-St. Brown, Toney, D. Brown, and then Williams. The next guys are Terry, Amari Rodgers, Tutu Atwell.

I think that's about the extent of it. So WR12.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the pre-draft slotting, but what you're describing is why I made trades to try and get out of the 20's (we also do IDP). Someone needs to be picked 22nd, but I think it's possible (probable?) that guys picked 32nd aren't much different wrt value. I think there's going to be a tier drop around pick 21-23 then it's a muddled mess into the 30's. That said, I think there are a couple guys going in the top 20 (like Toney) that I won't rank there come May 1 and there will probably be a couple guys outside of it that I'd consider not trading away from (like Williams).

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: WR Kadarius Toney, Giants

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