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WR Kadarius Toney, NYG


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18 hours ago, sushinsky4tsar said:

My mindset is trying to hit home runs rounds 2 through 5 (at least in this year's mid/late round 2).   If you view Toney as a WR3 or WR4 on your team, then he's a fine option at 2.4.  Adds a dynamic talent that will build your depth.   If WR depth was a need, I would also be considering St. Brown as an option with less sizzle, but a better chance of seeing high volume right out of the gate.   I have a logjam of AJB, Godwin, Sutton, Julio, Higgins, OBJ at WR.   So with Toney, I'm getting a WR7 for my roster as a best case that has no chance of cracking my lineup.   Part of the reason for that logjam is that every team in a 12-team has a collection of low WR2s, WR3s, and WR4s that they can tell a story of how great they're going to be.   This is where I see Toney slotting in if he hits.  The trade offers to send out WRs in this range tend to be underwhelming.

On the flipside, Gainwell has a chance at a Nyheim Hines type role even with a healthy Sanders.  There's value in that.   As an upside play, let's throw a Golladay and Miles Sanders injury into the equation.    Toney gets an uptick, but I don't think his role changes all that much.   For Gainwell, he certainly doesn't become a workhorse RB, but he becomes very interesting in any PPR format.

Maybe Toney has it to be something more, but I think it would take some training camp buzz to get me interested.   Certainly, the same can be said about entertaining an early 5th round RB at that spot.   Lacking that, I probably look to Fields and move on.

That's great that you already know all your WRs are going to stay healthy this year and Toney will languish as your WR7. ;)

Seriously though, drafting a day 3 backup RB over a first round WR is just bad roster management regardless of your current team makeup. Probability is the first rounder will be a better player. Period.

I like to play the odds and draft BPA. It's why I took Trey Lance and Toney in another. I try never to draft on need. Things change quickly. Forget your current depth. It can change in the blink of an eye. I always just want a valuable asset.

If this were last year and you were debating taking an AJ Dillon or Antonio Gibson over a guy like Toney, that's different. But Gainwell? Just another RB reach IMO. I know you said he has an ADP around Toney but that doesn't make it right.

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1 hour ago, tombonneau said:

That's great that you already know all your WRs are going to stay healthy this year and Toney will languish as your WR7. ;)

Seriously though, drafting a day 3 backup RB over a first round WR is just bad roster management regardless of your current team makeup. Probability is the first rounder will be a better player. Period.

I like to play the odds and draft BPA. It's why I took Trey Lance and Toney in another. I try never to draft on need. Things change quickly. Forget your current depth. It can change in the blink of an eye. I always just want a valuable asset.

If this were last year and you were debating taking an AJ Dillon or Antonio Gibson over a guy like Toney, that's different. But Gainwell? Just another RB reach IMO. I know you said he has an ADP around Toney but that doesn't make it right.

Well, I'll keep going then. :)  Antonio Brown to backstop a Godwin injury.   Hardman, Mims, and Bryan Edwards also in the mix.  I think I like the profiles of Mims and Edwards better than Toney, as far as guys with #1 / alpha pedigrees that could actually get owners in my league salivating, even though they're both long shots to get there.   

My roster might fall into the extenuating circumstances category, but I think there are probably a lot of Sharks in this forum with stacked WR cores.   For those who find themselves in similar situations, I don't think going with Gainwell over Toney is all that crazy.   There's a dynamic skill set there.   We're not talking about passing on Toney for Rountree or Stevenson (consider both to be 3rd & 4th round targets).  In fact, Toney and Gainwell are kind of comparable players.   Intriguing talents, not entirely sure how they'll fit into their respective offenses or how much action they'll get in the traditional WR or RB role.   Both are risks to be gadget guys without enough volume or week-to-week consistency to be valuable in fantasy.   

For those writing off Michael Carter and Kenny Gainwell because 4th and 5th round RBs never do anything, I think this is a new era where you might want to clear away a lot of those historical data points from 2017 and earlier and at least be open to these guys having a shot if the early reviews come back glowing.    

With all this said, I will agree with Toney ahead of Gainwell in a start-up or anyone with comparable depth at RB & WR.

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2 hours ago, tombonneau said:

I like to play the odds and draft BPA. It's why I took Trey Lance and Toney in another.

If Lance makes it to 2.4, I have an easy selection to make.

At this date, I think I lean Fields over Toney or Gainwell.  Even though I kind of despise the idea of carrying 3 QBs in a start 1 QB league.

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Giants signed first-round WR Kadarius Toney to a four-year, $13,719,508 contract.

A converted dual-threat quarterback who was responsible for 120 total touchdowns during his prep career, Toney (5'11/193) was listed as an “athlete” on Florida's depth chart and only began learning the wide receiver position over his last 18 games at Florida. While he remains unpolished, he's perpetually one catch away from breaking a defense and proved as much at the Gators' pro day with sterling numbers in the 40-yard dash (4.37), broad jump (11'4) and vertical leap (39.5"). Toney sported a 96th percentile burst score. With experience as Florida's featured punt and kick returner in 2020, Toney will find ways onto the field for the Giants. Early reports out of minicamp suggest he'll "be used in multiple roles."

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter

Jun 3, 2021, 10:41 AM ET

 

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The Athletic's Dan Duggan reports rookie WR Kadarius Toney worked "exclusively" with the Giants' second-team offense during minicamp. 

Toney didn't show up to the team's voluntary workouts because he had not yet signed his rookie contract. Duggan described the move as "bizarre since rookies regularly participate in the offseason program before signing their contracts because they sign waivers that protect them in case of injury." Toney, Duggan said, signed his waiver. The rookie -- who played 17 games as a receiver at Florida -- didn't get any reps with Daniel Jones this spring. It's an "inauspicious" start for Toney, as Duggan said. While his "quickness and agility stand out" at New York practices, Toney has had to leave practices early several times with cleat issues and minor leg injuries. Giants beat writers regularly report on Toney slipping and falling during practice sessions. The team's first-round pick is way behind the proverbial eight ball, and his springtime absence could delay any kind of breakout Toney could have in the Giants' poor passing offense.

SOURCE: The Athletic 

Jun 11, 2021, 10:11 AM ET

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not saying either player is a bad player, they aren't,  but there is a lot more that goes into the equation than talent, so I wonder who is a bigger waste of a fantasy pick, Kadarius Toney or Amon-Ra St. Brown?

Edited by JohnnyU
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4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Not saying either player is a bad player, they aren't,  but there is a lot more that goes into the equation than talent, so I wonder who is a bigger waste of a fantasy pick, Kadarius Toney or Amon-Ra St. Brown?

Just based on opportunity and competition, I don't see how Toney can be nearly as targeted as St. Brown....

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55 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Not saying either player is a bad player, they aren't,  but there is a lot more that goes into the equation than talent, so I wonder who is a bigger waste of a fantasy pick, Kadarius Toney or Amon-Ra St. Brown?

But the "doubt" is already built into their rookie draft pick price tag. I'm not high on Toney from a fantasy perspective but felt like I had to take him at 2.07. It's rare an NFL first round pick falls that far in a rookie draft and at that price he's worth the risk.

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He was supposed to be the death knell of either Slayton or Shepard's tenure on the Giants, but maybe he'll be the death knell of Gettleman's tenure instead. I still don't understand this pick for the Giants. They needed help on the offensive line and guys were there for the taking.

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40 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

But the "doubt" is already built into their rookie draft pick price tag. I'm not high on Toney from a fantasy perspective but felt like I had to take him at 2.07. It's rare an NFL first round pick falls that far in a rookie draft and at that price he's worth the risk.

Right, ARSB and Toney are basically going right around 2.06-2.09 with Amari and Dyami. I might regret taking ARSB over Dyami, but I just liked the immediate opportunity and potential to gel with Kupp. Also smaller guys without great speed who made a college living as a deep target aren’t a type that I’m into. This class isn’t like 2020 where guys like Gibson, Claypool, Herbert, Laviska, Dillon could be there at 2.06 and beyond. 

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Though I will say I regret not trying harder to package the 2.06 with something else to move up a couple spots where Lance, Fields or Elijah Moore might have been available.

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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

He was supposed to be the death knell of either Slayton or Shepard's tenure on the Giants, but maybe he'll be the death knell of Gettleman's tenure instead. I still don't understand this pick for the Giants. They needed help on the offensive line and guys were there for the taking.

His presents could mean the end of Shepard after this season. In regards to the 2022 salary cap, the Giants are not in good shape (I understand that the cap can and will be manipulated) Shepard has a fairly high 2022 cap number. There is speculation that because of cap number and drafting Toney, this will be Shepard's last season as a NYG.

Obviously a ton can will change between now and the 2022 season.

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1 hour ago, Faust said:

"'Don’t kome over here kommenting on my music, and it ain’t got in to do with you! I been rappin almost 3 years now. You late! Football aint goin nowhere. Ima live my life however i want. Watever is said…i don’t kare!' Toney tweeted. 'On god, football is some i do…it don’t make me who I am.'"

After skipping OTAs as a rookie that's... not a good look.

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2 minutes ago, floods said:

"'Don’t kome over here kommenting on my music, and it ain’t got in to do with you! I been rappin almost 3 years now. You late! Football aint goin nowhere. Ima live my life however i want. Watever is said…i don’t kare!' Toney tweeted. 'On god, football is some i do…it don’t make me who I am.'"

After skipping OTAs as a rookie that's... not a good look.

Personality crisis -- you got it while it was hot
Now frustration and heartache is all you got

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10 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Personality crisis -- you got it while it was hot
Now frustration and heartache is all you got

Who knew he was a prophet of his own future as well.

ETA: Damn, I thought that was a line from one of his songs. 😆

Edited by floods
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3 hours ago, floods said:

Who knew he was a prophet of his own future as well.

ETA: Damn, I thought that was a line from one of his songs. 😆

See, now that would have made sense. Not on top of my game, for sure.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

See, now that would have made sense. Not on top of my game, for sure.

I, for one, thought your comment was hot, hot, hot.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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The Athletic's Dan Duggan expects the Giants to bring WR Kadarius Toney along slowly. 

Duggan added that he sees the Giants using Sterling Shepard as their No. 2 receiver, but Darius Slayton could take on that role based on his matchup in a given week. Outside of Kenny Golladay, who is an overwhelming favorite to lead the team in targets, no New York receiver appears to have a solidified role. Toney will likely open the year as the odd man out, being infrequently schemed touches, but even that could change if he makes a few big plays early in the season. He was considered a raw prospect as a receiver but boasts a 4.37-second 40-yard dash and utility at multiple positions. Slayton and Toney both have big-play potential but neither wideout projects to be anything close to an every-down player. Unless one receiver stands out in training camp, no Giants wideout beyond Golladay deserves consideration as a fantasy starter.

RELATED: 

Sterling Shepard

, Darius Slayton

SOURCE: The Athletic

Jul 7, 2021, 2:30 PM ET

 

 

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Mailbag: Kadarius Toney's ceiling, Elerson Smith's frame

Excerpt:

Quote

James in Oklahoma: Kadarius Toney reminds me a lot of Stefan Diggs. Will offensive coordinator Jason Garrett will be able to utilize Toney to the max?

John Schmeelk: Diggs has developed into one of the best route runners in the NFL who can win outside or in the slot - he has become a true technician. Coming out of college, however, Diggs and Toney were similar in their testing and posing a dangerous threat with the ball in their hands. If Toney can develop the technical parts of playing receiver the way Diggs has, he could be an excellent receiver in the league for a long time. Toney is a little more physical in space than Diggs and just as apt to run over a defender than run around one. Garrett has had similar "joystick" or "slash" players in Dallas with Tavon Austin or even Dwayne Harris and he used those players on a lot of end arounds, jet sweeps and screen passes. These are the type of plays we will see for Toney early in his career, with his role being expanded as he gets more experience.

 

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25 minutes ago, Faust said:

Mailbag: Kadarius Toney's ceiling, Elerson Smith's frame

Excerpt:

Coming out of college, however, Diggs and Toney were similar in their testing 

No they were not. Diggs posted good numbers as a freshman in college. Toney not until his senior season.

Toney is tested as faster than Diggs was.

The rest of what he says about IF Toney develops into the route runner and technician that Diggs is, he will be a great player, well the same would be true for any WR prospect.

Diggs was a 5th round pick. Toney a 1st round pick.

Diggs was lighting OTA and Training camp on fire with his excellent play. Toney is not doing that.

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Diggs was also a 5-star recruit and the shine came off of him primarily due to injury.  He was well regarded as a route technician coming out of college.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

No they were not. Diggs posted good numbers as a freshman in college. Toney not until his senior season.

Toney is tested as faster than Diggs was.

The rest of what he says about IF Toney develops into the route runner and technician that Diggs is, he will be a great player, well the same would be true for any WR prospect.

Diggs was a 5th round pick. Toney a 1st round pick.

Diggs was lighting OTA and Training camp on fire with his excellent play. Toney is not doing that.

Right now he’s closer to a Titus Young / Laquan Treadwell trajectory than Stefan Diggs.

He’s got draft capital so his leash is slightly longer but if you’re gonna succeed in the Not For Long you better put in the work. There is a ton of nuance to learning the WR craft. You gotta have more to your game than 9 routes and some wiggle.

He came in with red flag character issues and a late breakout age. The pick was a bit surprising. Maybe the settle down it’s a nothing burger crowd is right (two bull#### head scratching excuses to miss vital OTAs) & he’ll tear it up in TC & PS. But folks who pay attention to silly season know those training camp breakouts are often foreshadowed by the same guys who show out from the jump.

Strikes me as an immature young man who’s gonna be unemployed in a few years if he doesn’t get it together. Teams do not have the [same kind of] patience to put up with  malarkey [as they used to]. Hopefully I’m dead wrong bc the kid is uber athletic (but very raw.)

Edited by BobbyLayne
[clarifying]
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Right now he’s closer to a Titus Young / Laquan Treadwell trajectory than Stefan Diggs.

He’s got draft capital so his leash is slightly longer but if you’re gonna succeed in the Not For Long you better put in the work. There is a ton of nuance to learning the WR craft. You gotta have more to your game than 9 routes and some wiggle.

He came in with red flag character issues and a late breakout age. The pick was a bit surprising. Maybe the settle down it’s a nothing burger crowd is right (two bull#### head scratching excuses to miss vital OTAs) & he’ll tear it up in TC & PS. But folks who pay attention to silly season know those training camp breakouts are often foreshadowed by the same guys who show out from the jump.

Strikes me as an immature young man who’s gonna be unemployed in a few years if he doesn’t get it together. Teams do not have the [same kind of] patience to put up with  malarkey [as they used to]. Hopefully I’m dead wrong bc the kid is uber athletic (but very raw.)

Its pro day so a grain of salt but I saw Toney had a 4.39 40 time and also a sub 7 second 3 cone time and that speed does show up when you watch him as well.

When you said Titus Young a light bulb did flash for me though. I guess I would have to look it up but IIRC he was similar frame and speed.

I looked it up and Young was almost 20 lbs lighter and slower than Toney.

Edited by Biabreakable
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5 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Its pro day so a grain of salt but I saw Toney had a 4.39 40 time and also a sub 7 second 3 cone time and that speed does show up when you watch him as well.

When you said Titus Young a light bulb did flash for me though. I guess I would have to look it up but IIRC he was similar frame and speed.

Little smaller.

Titus’ “immaturity” was in fact severe mental disorders (bipolar + psychosis/schizophrenia) - voices told him to commit the crimes that sent him to prison. For his sake I hope Toney just needs to grow up, managing severe mental illness is no joke.

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Just now, BobbyLayne said:

Little smaller.

Titus’ “immaturity” was in fact severe mental disorders (bipolar + psychosis/schizophrenia) - voices told him to commit the crimes that sent him to prison. For his sake I hope Toney just needs to grow up, managing severe mental illness is no joke.

Yeah. I wish him the best.

Its been making me mad how every you tuber and their cousin have been taking pot shots at Everson Griffen lately when they know he has issues. Its mean.

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18 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Yeah. I wish him the best.

Its been making me mad how every you tuber and their cousin have been taking pot shots at Everson Griffen lately when they know he has issues. Its mean.

We have a ways to go as a society in terms of mental health awareness. One in five Americans suffers from a mental health crisis which is treatable - every year. Major or severe mental illness is more rare (5% or less.) But...one in five!

Unfortunately men are far less likely to seek mental health treatment than women. We need to normalize mental health check ups - it’s just a normal part of taking care of yourself. 

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On 6/21/2021 at 9:52 AM, rockaction said:

He was supposed to be the death knell of either Slayton or Shepard's tenure on the Giants, but maybe he'll be the death knell of Gettleman's tenure instead. I still don't understand this pick for the Giants. They needed help on the offensive line and guys were there for the taking.

Agree 100%, not only was the choice to draft a WR bad but I'm not a fan at all of the WR they chose.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Giants announced Thursday that they placed Kadarius Toney on the reserve/COVID-19 list.

Toney reported to training camp on Wednesday, and underwent COVID-19 testing along with the rest of the Giants rookies. Toney is now isolating as part of NFL/NFLPA protocols. Toney was absolutely electric for Florida in 2020 but, especially in light of reports that Giants were already planning to bring him along slowly, this is an unfortunate development for the first round wide receiver.

SOURCE: Art Stapelton on Twitter

Jul 22, 2021, 4:48 PM ET

 

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On 6/21/2021 at 9:52 AM, rockaction said:

He was supposed to be the death knell of either Slayton or Shepard's tenure on the Giants, but maybe he'll be the death knell of Gettleman's tenure instead. I still don't understand this pick for the Giants. They needed help on the offensive line and guys were there for the taking.

Devonte Smith was sniped by Howie. Toney was a really poor plan B

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13 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Devonte Smith was sniped by Howie. Toney was a really poor plan B

If they stayed at 11 and picked Toney, I would agree. Trading down to 20 and getting the Bears 1st round pick next season makes it a good plan B.

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20 minutes ago, massraider said:

Man I'm really hoping this guy proves everyone incorrect. I took him once, he just kept falling and falling. 

Tough to be optimistic, but he is a lot of fun with the ball in his hands. 

I'm not high on him at all really, but when he fell to 2.07, I felt like it was malpractice not to take him. When does a first round NFL WR fall to the middle of the second in fantasy drafts?

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Kadarius Toney (COVID-19) is expected to resume practicing Tuesday or Wednesday. 

Toney returned to the team facility on Tuesday after testing positive last week. "We’re not going to do anything with him on the field with the team until we know he’s fully ready to go," coach Joe Judge said. "His timetable will be different, I’m sure, than a lot of the guys (who had COVID) last year that we learned from." Although it sounds like it will be minimal, any missed practice time will be a big deal for an in-progress wideout who still has only 18 games of official experience at the position. Doubting the last Giants first-round wideout in fantasy football did not exactly pay off, but it is difficult to envision Toney making a meaningful re-draft impact as a rookie. 

SOURCE: Ralph Vacchiano on Twitter 

Jul 27, 2021, 2:29 PM ET

 

 

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4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm not high on him at all really, but when he fell to 2.07, I felt like it was malpractice not to take him. When does a first round NFL WR fall to the middle of the second in fantasy drafts?

Same, I grabbed him at 2.09 (side note to Jet fan: after I begrudgingly passed on E. Moore for M. Carter at 1.9 due to positional need).  Hoping it works out as good as my Ruggs, Reagor and Mike Williams 2nd rounders of the past.  :X

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23 hours ago, Faust said:

This is literally the first piece of positive news in months. Judge is from the BB/BP camp, and if he didn't have anything good to say about a rookie, he wouldn't say it. 

@Dr. Octopus is bang on when he says it's malpractice to bypass a first round WR in the mid-second of a dynasty draft. I hated taking him in my second dynasty but 2.6 in a 14-teamer, I'm not taking Amari Rodgers or Amon Ra or Gainwell.

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1 hour ago, tombonneau said:

This is literally the first piece of positive news in months. Judge is from the BB/BP camp, and if he didn't have anything good to say about a rookie, he wouldn't say it. 

@Dr. Octopus is bang on when he says it's malpractice to bypass a first round WR in the mid-second of a dynasty draft. I hated taking him in my second dynasty but 2.6 in a 14-teamer, I'm not taking Amari Rodgers or Amon Ra or Gainwell.

Yeah, I can acknowledge even with the rough start for Toney it was likely a big mistake to have taken ARSB over Toney. 

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  • Faust changed the title to WR Kadarius Toney, NYG

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