What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2021 rookie rankings Pre NFL draft - pick 1.06 (CLOSED) (1 Viewer)

TE Premium Scoring Leagues

  • QB Trevor Lawrence, Clemson

    Votes: 6 10.7%

  • RB Kenneth Gainwell, Memphis

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • RB Michael Carter, North Carolina

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • RB Chuba Hubbard, Oklahoma State

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • WR Devonta Smith, Alabama

    Votes: 16 28.6%

  • WR Jaylen Waddle, Alabama

    Votes: 11 19.6%

  • WR Rashod Bateman, Minnesota

    Votes: 5 8.9%

  • WR Rondale Moore, Purdue

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • WR Terrace Marshall Jr., LSU

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • TE Pat Freiermuth, Penn State

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • TE Brevin Jordan, Miami (FL)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • TE Hunter Long, Boston College

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Don’t play in this format

    Votes: 16 28.6%

  • Other (please post who you voted for so that player can be potentially added to the next poll)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    56
Faust

Faust

MVP
2021 rookie rankings Pre NFL draft - pick 1.01

2021 rookie rankings Pre NFL draft - pick 1.02

2021 rookie rankings Pre NFL draft - pick 1.03

2021 rookie rankings Pre NFL draft - pick 1.04

2021 rookie rankings Pre NFL draft - pick 1.05

1. Standard scoring

1.01 - RB Najee Harris, Alabama (68.75%)
1.02 - RB Travis Etienne, Clemson (44.07%)

1.03 - WR Ja'Marr Chase, LSU (46.43%)

1.04 - RB Javonte Williams, North Carolina (61.11%)

1.05 - WR Devonta Smith, Alabama (37.74%)

2. PPR Scoring 

1.01 - RB Najee Harris, Alabama (46.88%)

1.02 - WR Ja'Marr Chase, LSU (46.55%)

1.03 - RB Travis Etienne, Clemson (66.07%)

1.04 - RB Javonte Williams, North Carolina (35.19%)

1.05 - WR Devonta Smith, Alabama (41.51%)

3. Start 2 QB leagues

1.01 - QB Trevor Lawrence, Clemson (82.81%)

1.02 - QB Justin Fields, Ohio State (32.76%)

1.03 - QB QB Zach Wilson, BYU (41.07%)

1.04 - RB Najee Harris, Alabama (38.89%)

1.05 - WR Ja'Marr Chase, LSU (28.3%)

4. TE premium scoring leagues

1.01 - RB Najee Harris, Alabama (36.67%)

1.02 - RB Travis Etienne, Clemson (25.86%)

1.03 - WR Ja'Marr Chase, LSU (32.14%)

1.04 - TE Kyle Pitts, Florida (29.63%)

1.05 - RB Javonte Williams, North Carolina (28.3%)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have heard some say that this draft class compares to the 2020 class at WR. I am not seeing it that way at all. Here at pick 6 I think Pitts is a better prospect for fantasy than Waddle who looks like he will win the spot for 3rd WR of this class.

I dont think Waddle is that good? Therefore this class is not comparable to 2020.

 
Biabreakable said:
I have heard some say that this draft class compares to the 2020 class at WR. I am not seeing it that way at all. Here at pick 6 I think Pitts is a better prospect for fantasy than Waddle who looks like he will win the spot for 3rd WR of this class.

I dont think Waddle is that good? Therefore this class is not comparable to 2020.
Click to expand...
Does the question mark mean you're unsure? I think it should.

And I'm really not sure why everyone has such wood for last year's WR class. Is five an inordinate number of good players?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Dufresne said:
Does the question mark mean you're unsure? I think it should.
Click to expand...
I am not sure because I haven't spent enough time studing him or the other players to be sure about anything at this point.

But I dont think Waddle is an exceptional talent no. I am okay if I am wrong about that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think I’m snapping Waddle at 6 here. He seems to be the closest, albeit not quite there, guy to Tyreek Hill among recent wannabes. 

 
I agree with Biabreakable above. I can't see how this class is as good as last year's. And I think last year's was deep. Claypool was at least a late second-rounder, and look how he fared. Other guys I'm not ready to give up on just yet.

Lots of guys with questionable WR measureables at basic height/weight thresholds.

 
Last year there were five guys I'd think would generally be good+ players - Lamb, Jefferson, Higgins, Aiyuk, and Claypool.

I'm not really sold on Caypool but I'll give him. And in the three Zealots leagues I'm in (granted, they're IDP leagues) he went in the back half of the third.

With the way the game is played today, there are a ton of guys that can potentially match the performance levels of Aiyuk & Claypool even if they don't match the physical profile.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Last year there were five guys I'd think would generally be good+ players - Lamb, Jefferson, Higgins, Aiyuk, and Claypool.

I'm not really sold on Caypool but I'll give him. And in the three Zealots leagues I'm in (granted, they're IDP leagues) he went in the back half of the third.

With the way the game is played today, there are a ton of guys that can potentially match the performance levels of Aiyuk & Claypool even if they don't match the physical profile.
Click to expand...
I believe you forgot Jerry Juedy, you know that guy who made Waddle an afterthought.

If you guys want to sell me on why Waddle is better than 12 of the 2020 WRs I am listening.

 
Biabreakable said:
I believe you forgot Jerry Juedy, you know that guy who made Waddle an afterthought.

If you guys want to sell me on why Waddle is better than 12 of the 2020 WRs I am listening.
Click to expand...
I didn't forget about him. He simply didn't produce. And I don't get your second point. Why twelve?

 
Biabreakable said:
I believe you forgot Jerry Juedy, you know that guy who made Waddle an afterthought.

If you guys want to sell me on why Waddle is better than 12 of the 2020 WRs I am listening.
Click to expand...
If you look at a guy like Ruggs. He was drafted very high by the fantasy community because despite him being short he was very fast and reminded people of Reek. Waddle seems to be in that same comparison group. Rage or was another smallish nifty type drafted very high. Ruggs and Raegor were drafted very high by their nfl clubs and by fantasy community. To be honest, I tend to favor size and crispness of routes and off the line techniques when I draft. This is why I have Bateman rated higher than others. But if Ruggs or Raegor develop into Reek types then it was worth the early pick and the off first year. 

 
Blackbear said:
If you look at a guy like Ruggs. He was drafted very high by the fantasy community because despite him being short he was very fast and reminded people of Reek. Waddle seems to be in that same comparison group. Rage or was another smallish nifty type drafted very high. Ruggs and Raegor were drafted very high by their nfl clubs and by fantasy community. To be honest, I tend to favor size and crispness of routes and off the line techniques when I draft. This is why I have Bateman rated higher than others. But if Ruggs or Raegor develop into Reek types then it was worth the early pick and the off first year. 
Click to expand...
Not a huge Ruggs believer, but probably too early to throw in the towel on Jeudy and Reagor and maybe Ruggs as well. 
 

Ruggs was over 2 inches taller than Tyreek at the combine. I’m pretty sure Waddle is much closer to Tyreeks build. 

 
Blackbear said:
Don’t you think you are benefiting by hindsight? This seems like a silly discussion. 
Click to expand...
No its not hindsight. I was skeptical of the 2020 draft class being as good as the 2014 draft class of WR but it certainly was being talked about as such before the 2020 draft. I pay attention to things.

With hindsight that prediction turned out to be fairly true although we could debate the 2014 guys vs the 2020 guys. If you think thats silly oh well. I think its useful to try to compare the draft classes and see how they stack up just like any other ranking or organization of information.

Thanks for the comments about Waddle being compared to Tyreek Hill. I have been tuning out the mock draft stuff and so on pretty well so far. That makes sense though.

 
rockaction said:
I agree with Biabreakable above. I can't see how this class is as good as last year's. And I think last year's was deep. Claypool was at least a late second-rounder, and look how he fared. Other guys I'm not ready to give up on just yet.

Lots of guys with questionable WR measureables at basic height/weight thresholds.
Click to expand...
I believe this class has a chance to be every bit as good as 2020, but I still think 2020 is deeper, but not by much.  Ask me in 3 years.

Chase, Smith, Waddle, Bateman, E Moore, Wallace, R Moore, D Brown, Marshall,  St. Brown, Terry, Toney, and Suratt.

vs 

Jefferson, Lamb, Jeudy, Claypool, Aiyuk, Pittman, Higgins, Ruggs, Mims, Reagor, Shenault, Edwards, and Peoples-Jones.

Which will be better?  I guess we will be able to answer that in a few years, not one or two.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU said:
I believe this class has a chance to be every bit as good as 2020, but I still think 2020 is deeper, but not by much.  Ask me in 3 years.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you think that way. I have a bunch of Round Two draft picks to play with and two Round Ones. Hope the players bear fruit. Would've liked those picks last year, though, I must say. I think 2020 was pretty extraordinary to have the years they had without the benefits of camp, a different organizational structure and schedule than usual (which would seem to benefit those who have been living on their own and meeting professional demands for a while), and uncertainty about almost everything.

 
rockaction said:
I'm glad you think that way. I have a bunch of Round Two draft picks to play with and two Round Ones. Hope the players bear fruit. Would've liked those picks last year, though, I must say. I think 2020 was pretty extraordinary to have the years they had without the benefits of camp, a different organizational structure and schedule than usual (which would seem to benefit those who have been living on their own and meeting professional demands for a while), and uncertainty about almost everything.
Click to expand...
Bear in mind however that the lack of preseason games and normal developemental opportunities being curtailed the overall result was record breaking numbers for NFL offenses, so that lack of preparation seems to have affected the defenses more than the offenses.

 
Biabreakable said:
Bear in mind however that the lack of preseason games and normal developemental opportunities being curtailed the overall result was record breaking numbers for NFL offenses, so that lack of preparation seems to have affected the defenses more than the offenses.
Click to expand...
I've seen that point made repeatedly on Twitter by guys that break down data. As a matter of fact, one ran with it and faded Justin Jefferson as a result. Oof. But good observation, Bia, and likely true. 

 
rockaction said:
I've seen that point made repeatedly on Twitter by guys that break down data. As a matter of fact, one ran with it and faded Justin Jefferson as a result. Oof. But good observation, Bia, and likely true. 
Click to expand...
Yeah I dont mean to dismiss the productivity of the 2020 WR with that. I just like to look at all sides of everything I can.

 
Biabreakable said:
Yeah I dont mean to dismiss the productivity of the 2020 WR with that. I just like to look at all sides of everything I can.
Click to expand...
No, it's a more than valid -- and probably sound -- point. This year was an offensive outlier, according to a bunch of guys at big publications that run data on this stuff.

 
Perhaps the disconnect between Andy and me in regards to Waddle is just ignorance on my part. I was somewhat suprised to see him winning this poll so handily to be honest. As I said though I have been tuning out the mock drafts and so on. I did read Andys mock draft he posted here awhile back. There are several players in this poll I have never even watched before. As I said I was not ready to start this poll yet.

Jaylen Waddle is not a player I am unaware of. He plays for Alabama of course I know who he is. So why the face Andy?

 
Biabreakable said:
Perhaps the disconnect between Andy and me in regards to Waddle is just ignorance on my part. I was somewhat suprised to see him winning this poll so handily to be honest. As I said though I have been tuning out the mock drafts and so on. I did read Andys mock draft he posted here awhile back. There are several players in this poll I have never even watched before. As I said I was not ready to start this poll yet.

Jaylen Waddle is not a player I am unaware of. He plays for Alabama of course I know who he is. So why the face Andy?
Click to expand...
I believe Waddle has a lot more to his game than speed.  Unlike Henry Ruggs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Biabreakable said:
Perhaps the disconnect between Andy and me in regards to Waddle is just ignorance on my part. I was somewhat suprised to see him winning this poll so handily to be honest. As I said though I have been tuning out the mock drafts and so on. I did read Andys mock draft he posted here awhile back. There are several players in this poll I have never even watched before. As I said I was not ready to start this poll yet.

Jaylen Waddle is not a player I am unaware of. He plays for Alabama of course I know who he is. So why the face Andy?
Click to expand...
You're addressing Andy, but I sort of agree with you that I'd rather have a lot of guys from 2020 over Waddle. But that's at this point. Perhaps I'll see something that changes my mind about him.

 
As far as the offensive productivity being up in 2020 I think a lot of it is just the lack of crowd noise and home field advantage. There were a lot less offensive penalties in 2020 than years past. That should change.

 
If you look at where Waddle is ranked it's about 50/50 that it's Waddle followed immediately by Smith or the vice versa.

That means that Smith, along with Waddle, would rank somewhere around the 15th ranked receiver combining the last two classes. That just doesn't compute with me.

 
Great discussion going here, but man the situation will turn everything upside down for everyone's rankings.

Not sure what KC draft needs are, but if they draft one of the top 10 WRs, that WR will probably vault to the top of the charts (the CEH effect).  Likewise, any skill position player selected by the likes of the Jets or Texans will surely drop.

... and whoever the Patriots draft will be overvalued and will disappoint.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
If you look at where Waddle is ranked it's about 50/50 that it's Waddle followed immediately by Smith or the vice versa.

That means that Smith, along with Waddle, would rank somewhere around the 15th ranked receiver combining the last two classes. That just doesn't compute with me.
Click to expand...
That shouldn’t compute with anyone. 

 
Biabreakable said:
Because that is my guess as to how many 2020 WR I would take over Waddle.
Click to expand...
Oh no Bia, we must set you right.

He was outproducing Smith this year, before his injury. The only reason Smith did so well is because he's the only target on that team for this season. Waddle broke out immediately on that Alabama team as a freshman (20 year old) with 848 yards among the scrub you mentioned in another post *cough* Jerry Jeudy *cough*. It just doesn't count as his "breakout" because the market share wasn't very high compared to other producers on that team. Jeudy is the worst of the bunch. 

Waddle is hyper efficient with 21/26 catches when targeted +20 yards downfield (first stat that came up on a quick twitter search) - I love efficient players

According to PFF - he has the highest career yards per route of this class at 3.57

If you're not a fan of the stats here's some game moments to look at:

Vs Georgia 2020 - Right away dynamic return man, and first offensive play plays quick, and patient behind a blocker, breaks a tackle or two for extra yardage. 3:35 you can easily see the speed downfield to separate from defenders. 4:39 he's being held and pulled the whole route, after stacking him with this quick jump cut move and still manages to get mitts on the ball (although dropped).

Vs Mizzou 2020 - 1:25 that tracking and jump ability to go get that ball while double covered. He knows he's getting hit or coming down hard. The play after 1:30 just runs away from a slot corner easily and scores. 2:02 stumbles a bit catching it, before being ankle tackled and he dives into the end zone. 2:38 defense is playing off, perfect play call to the screen, he jabs his foot in, comes back and makes 2 defenders look stupid with his jump cut and wiggle. 3:00 he gets a fantastic release off the line, they're playing a safety over the top, and yet he still burns them both for a TD. 3:48 he's near the top of the formation, really fighting for his block and putting all the effort in. Not flashy, but fun/good to see. Same thing at 4:00, fighting while blocking instead of giving it up. 

That's just 2 games and to me it's obvious that Waddle is more dynamic, better WR than Jeudy by a decent amount. Smith is a different story and he's solid, but I believe Waddle is the engine for that passing attack that opens things up for others. They just moved those WR's around so much and they all knew every position's route so I don't doubt it'll make Smith and Waddle better pro's. 

Oh and he raced Henry Ruggs a lot and they routinely were neck and neck. Waddle is a sub 4.4 guy. 

 
Zyphros, did you know you can copy YouTube at whatever time you want by right-clicking on the video and selecting "Copy URL at current time"?

It'll go right to your specified play if you do that.

 
2020 WRs I would take over Waddle today : Jefferson, Lamb, Aiyuk, Claypool, Higgins, Pittman, Shenault

2020 WRs I would strongly consider over Waddle today if I knew his landing spot, and if I didn't love it: Davis, Ruggs, Jeudy & Hamler, Mims, Mooney

That's 13 for me if I don't love his landing spot. But I am pliable and it is February. 

I voted Bateman at 1.06 in PPR.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
barackdhouse said:
2020 WRs I would take over Waddle today : Jefferson, Lamb, Aiyuk, Claypool, Higgins, Pittman, Shenault

2020 WRs I would strongly consider over Waddle today if I knew his landing spot, and if I didn't love it: Davis, Ruggs, Jeudy & Hamler, Mims, Mooney

That's 13 for me if I don't love his landing spot. But I am pliable and it is February. 

I voted Bateman at 1.06 in PPR.
Click to expand...
I voted for Bateman too. I like his combo of size, routes, and off the line. 

 
barackdhouse said:
2020 WRs I would take over Waddle today : Jefferson, Lamb, Aiyuk, Claypool, Higgins, Pittman, Shenault

2020 WRs I would strongly consider over Waddle today if I knew his landing spot, and if I didn't love it: Davis, Ruggs, Jeudy & Hamler, Mims, Mooney

That's 13 for me if I don't love his landing spot. But I am pliable and it is February. 

I voted Bateman at 1.06 in PPR.
Click to expand...
This list is loco to me. Henry Ruggs? KJ Hamler? Seriously?

 
Andy Dufresne said:
This list is loco to me. Henry Ruggs? KJ Hamler? Seriously?
Click to expand...
So far your argument in this thread has consisted of "I'm shocked". All I'm saying is I would consider putting those guys ahead of him. That is with the benefit of hindsight. I'm not talking about as prospects. I'm talking about knowing what we know now. If it were a startup I wouldn't be taking those names you hate anywhere near where Waddle will be going. At Waddle's price I'm taking top veteran talent most likely. In this rookie draft I'm going Bateman (as of this moment). But if I'm comparing just 2020 rookies to 2021 rookies I generally like those other guys for close to free more than Waddle for 1.06. I think there is a very non zero chance all those names have better careers. If he goes to a bad spot. 

 
barackdhouse said:
So far your argument in this thread has consisted of "I'm shocked". All I'm saying is I would consider putting those guys ahead of him. That is with the benefit of hindsight. I'm not talking about as prospects. I'm talking about knowing what we know now. If it were a startup I wouldn't be taking those names you hate anywhere near where Waddle will be going. At Waddle's price I'm taking top veteran talent most likely. In this rookie draft I'm going Bateman (as of this moment). But if I'm comparing just 2020 rookies to 2021 rookies I generally like those other guys for close to free more than Waddle for 1.06. I think there is a very non zero chance all those names have better careers. If he goes to a bad spot. 
Click to expand...
Sorry, but this reads like you're mixing dynasty and startup drafts within the same argument.

I'm talking about which guys appear to be the better player.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
If you look at where Waddle is ranked it's about 50/50 that it's Waddle followed immediately by Smith or the vice versa.

That means that Smith, along with Waddle, would rank somewhere around the 15th ranked receiver combining the last two classes. That just doesn't compute with me.
Click to expand...
Okay this is where we disagree then as I think Smith is much better than Waddle where as in your view they are close to the same? Or in the view of mock drafts they are similarly ranked?

Although I have been critical of Bateman I think I prefer him to Waddle as well and possibly other 2021 WR as well. I dont think Waddle should be in the top 10 players for fantasy.

 
@Biabreakable - This is what Daniel Jeremiah has wrote on Waddle (his current #6 overall draft prospect):

Waddle is a slightly undersized receiver with extraordinary speed and playmaking ability. He has the ability to line up inside or outside. His acceleration in his release is elite. He destroys the cushions he receives from defenders in a hiccup and can find a second and third gear once the ball is in the air. He's at his best on runaway routes, but he flashes the ability to efficiently gear down and work back downhill. I thought his hands were improved this fall (see: crazy catch versus Missouri in the season opener). He's one of the most talented kickoff and punt returners (just watch the tape of his 2019 performance against Auburn) to enter the NFL over the last decade. Overall, Waddle isn't quite as strong as Tyreek Hill, but he's capable of having the same impact in the NFL.
Click to expand...

 
Thanks Faust. I figured DJ and the usual suspects were talking him up.

I am purposefully trying to avoid opinions like his as I want to make up my mind without such influences.

I do note that DJ says his hands have improved and maybe they have.

I have been aware of who Waddle is for 3 years now and I do not think so highly of him as DJ.

 
Biabreakable said:
Thanks Faust. I figured DJ and the usual suspects were talking him up.

I am purposefully trying to avoid opinions like his as I want to make up my mind without such influences.

I do note that DJ says his hands have improved and maybe they have.

I have been aware of who Waddle is for 3 years now and I do not think so highly of him as DJ.
Click to expand...
@Biabreakable - I appreciate contrarian thinking and views, and I know that you were aware of Waddle because you follow college players closer than I do.

There appears to be consensus building at the NFL Network that Waddle is a top prospect at the WR position:

Brooks: Jaylen Waddle would be in WR1 discussion if not for 2021 injury (video)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Faust
  • Poll
2022 Rookie Rankings Post NFL draft - pick 1.06 (CLOSED)
Replies
14
Views
907
Faust
Faust
LawFitz
FF Writers Valuing RBs Like NFL GMs
Replies
49
Views
1K
ignatiusjreilly
ignatiusjreilly
Tonycarpenter
Dynasty 2024 Draft pick Candidates Mid 2023 Season ranking
Replies
0
Views
1K
Tonycarpenter
Tonycarpenter

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top