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Toward An Immigration Policy, Considered As Former Refugees and Immigrants, Also As Citizens and Voters


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The latest go round with detention centers and facilities ("cages," if this were President Trump) has got me thinking as I lay down. Well, actually the thought of political refugees and utter poverty does. Everyone, it seems, in their better moments wants to alleviate political strife and abject poverty. But what sort of immigration policy would best suit everybody considered? It seems to me that both sides only consider one avenue. There are, on one hand, open borders people (imagine a sliding scale) and on the other hand, those that would restrict immigration to some degree.

Whether it is the refugee or immigrant coming in, or whether it is the voter and citizen upon whom financial and social claims are made, I would just like to maybe -- maybe -- re-frame the issue here. What does our better self demand of us, and what can we rightfully refuse as claims made upon us? Just looking for something maybe a little more out of the box than what we normally see. I'd personally love to see where both the teachings of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam leave us on the issue, and where the duty and obligation under respect for the citizen -- mainly Greek and Roman -- also leave us. Are we left, under Christ, with borders at all? Are we left, as citizens already, with a duty to our fellow recognized citizens, that we may not allow a mass influx for fear of drain on both resources and homogeneity? Or are these both moot, and are completely open borders a win-win? What are your premises, and what is your conclusion from those premises?

What does everybody think the calculus should be and why? Any articles, teachings, lectures, scripture are welcome to help us better our knowledge about the subject.

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Romans 13:1–7

Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities,p for there is no authority except that which God has established.q The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted,r and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.s 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.t 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.u

6 This is also why you pay taxes,v for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes;w if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

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10 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Romans 13:1–7

Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities,p for there is no authority except that which God has established.

Sounds like the justification for the Divine Right Of Kings right there. Interesting. Noted.

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I'm more fond of this scripture

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

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44 minutes ago, rockaction said:

The latest go round with detention centers and facilities ("cages," if this were President Trump) has got me thinking as I lay down. Well, actually the thought of political refugees and utter poverty does. Everyone, it seems, in their better moments wants to alleviate political strife and abject poverty. But what sort of immigration policy would best suit everybody considered? It seems to me that both sides only consider one avenue. There are, on one hand, open borders people (imagine a sliding scale) and on the other hand, those that would restrict immigration to some degree.

Whether it is the refugee or immigrant coming in, or whether it is the voter and citizen upon whom financial and social claims are made, I would just like to maybe -- maybe -- re-frame the issue here. What does our better self demand of us, and what can we rightfully refuse as claims made upon us? Just looking for something maybe a little more out of the box than what we normally see. I'd personally love to see where both the teachings of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam leave us on the issue, and where the duty and obligation under respect for the citizen -- mainly Greek and Roman -- also leave us. Are we left, under Christ, with borders at all? Are we left, as citizens already, with a duty to our fellow recognized citizens, that we may not allow a mass influx for fear of drain on both resources and homogeneity? Or are these both moot, and are completely open borders a win-win? What are your premises, and what is your conclusion from those premises?

What does everybody think the calculus should be and why? Any articles, teachings, lectures, scripture are welcome to help us better our knowledge about the subject.

I think there's a decent argument around needing to fix our current situation for our own citizens to then better help non citizens.  The problem is that we can't agree on things to do to fix that so it just shifts the argument once it's about non-citizens.  If you ask me, the number one thing we could do to help many areas is to fix income inequality which most likely begins with things like BIG, minimum wage increases and taxing the #### out of the wealthy.  Unpopular policies with many.

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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

But what sort of immigration policy would best suit everybody considered? It seems to me that both sides only consider one avenue.

what immigration policies do we have right now ?

Millions are allowed to come into the USA and live in our amazing country every year through visa's etc right? We allow millions to come here legally through immigration right ?

 

whatever laws we have on immigration NEED TO BE ENFORCED - unless that happens, it doesn't matter what laws are in place does it ?

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6 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

I think there's a decent argument around needing to fix our current situation for our own citizens to then better help non citizens.  The problem is that we can't agree on things to do to fix that so it just shifts the argument once it's about non-citizens.  If you ask me, the number one thing we could do to help many areas is to fix income inequality which most likely begins with things like BIG, minimum wage increases and taxing the #### out of the wealthy.  Unpopular policies with many.

Many of my customers said they will either shorten hours or close/sell if minimum wage goes to $15/hour.  

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8 hours ago, rockaction said:

Sounds like the justification for the Divine Right Of Kings right there. Interesting. Noted.

It should also be mentioned that there are several Bible passages warning rulers against abusing their power. Psalm 108, I think, is one such passage, as is the end of Psalm 2.

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3 hours ago, Rich Conway said:

I'm unclear why an exact count really matters.

We regulate immigration today, and the number of illegals in he country is a measure of how effective / ineffective our policies are.  And if we are talking about granting amnesty and citizenship to these folks it will have all sorts of financial, legal and political impacts.  You don’t think it’s important to operate from a fact base on something that would affect the country so dramatically?

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  • 4 weeks later...

What are we to do ethically and morally when people are sending their children alone to our borders?

How on earth do we handle this as a beacon of light for the rest of the world to follow?

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