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Hasbro makes Mr. Potato Head gender neutral


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1 minute ago, Manster said:

I heard it again on the news that Hasbro IS doing this.....are they or aren't they?

They are expanding the brand, not removing the Mr and Mrs Potato Head toys or characters.  As such they are renaming the brand "Potato Head" for the umbrella of products.  The new product is to overcome limitations "... when it comes to both gender identity and family structure.”  link

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Thank you for bringing this important matter to our attention.

"First they came for the potatoes, and I said nothing." 

This exchange kinds of reads like... Red:  I can't believe you guys are so offended at this! Blue:  Literally none of us are offended. Red:  Then why'd you bring it up? Blue:  We didn't, yo

My kids had buckets of potato heads and parts....both Mr and Mrs, then even bunny ones for easter and Christmas ones.

We would play with them all the time and I dont recall ever my kid's "marrying them" or making "potato families" It was mainly us seeing how silly  we could make the face combinations. I know the way my kids played with them is not the only way, but I dont understand why Hasbro has to solve intersex marriages with their toys. Just make male and female figures and let the parents decide if they want to buy 2 of the same style. 

Also, all they are really doing is just renaming the whole line "potato head" it just seems their rational is going deeper then it really has to be IMO. 

Edited by glvsav37
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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

I'm nowhere near them. I simply said you're wrong if you don't think this isn't part of the activist revolution. That your average moderate like Kal El reacts by denying their censorious intent is what they want. They want the middle unaware of what is happening at every level. Last time with the New Left it was education, mass media, religion, and an Overton window shift in politics. The New New Left has been going since '89 and is just making inroads to our culture, a culture of ossified rot and consumerism that has trouble defending itself on principles previously abandoned.

Restate the principles and be unafraid. There are biological sexes, and there is a difference in behaviors between those that inhabit each earthly dominion. It is not necessarily deterministic, but the overwhelming evidence told us and tells us that these differences exist. If we must speak of everything, then admit to those that are intersexed that they are human, too, and will be treated with dignity. That is all we need promise. Any "roles" or thinking about "roles" is separate from those premises. Sex is sex. Gender is gender. The two are different. That determinism was for so long the philosophy of choice regarding the subsequent roles from the biological sex is the problem, not the actual sex designation.

As far as the non-gendered toy movement goes. It's been going on since the '70s. This is not a new fight. Remember Ms. Magazine and Baby X? That magazine and the radical feminist movement were at the vanguard of the sexless toy movement. And they had allies. The toy companies stood to gain billions of dollars if they could develop toys that appealed to both sexes. The cost of production would drop, the ease of marketing would lead to mass appeal, the profit$ would roll in. So why didn't it work? What was stopping them? Profits were aligned with a social cause for once. So what happened? Well, the stubborn insistence of even the youngest infants did. They rejected those sexless or genderless toys and wound up playing with toys that were made for their sex. And so it was...our Platonic gladiator ideal (radical equality of the sexes was enforced for Plato's Gladiator class in The Republic) got a rude natural awakening.

 

Might have something to do with the parents that had the money that paid for the toys.

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13 hours ago, jobarules said:

According to some people there are more than two genders now. This whole thing is beyond ridiculous now.

Just get a bag of potatos then.

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15 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hasbro is now transphobic and must be cancelled.

You jest, but this will happen. We'll all laugh at the morons that keep screaming at them until they gain enough of a mob to stand outside the Hasboro HQ everyday threatening employees and damaging property until Hasboro finally re-submits to their ideology. 

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3 hours ago, moleculo said:

Conservatives get all spun up about the silliest things, I swear.

"Yes. Here's this foot in your ###. You seem awfully worked up about it, don't you?" 

That's about your line of argument. Or try this one from trans world. "Boy, we just had our son Bobby come home with papers to sign about gender reassignment. He's ten. Don't we just get worked up about the silliest of things? I swear..."

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3 hours ago, moleculo said:

Conservatives get all spun up about the silliest things, I swear.

Must. Be. Binary.

ETA: Not necessarily speaking to rock. Just fits in with the narrative lately where so many issues with the Trump party have to be repackaged as an all/nothing, black/white, two option construct.

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3 hours ago, moleculo said:

Conservatives get all spun up about the silliest things, I swear.

I think what conservatives (at least myself) are "getting worked up over" is the idea that purity of just being a child is becoming a political issue. As I said earlier, my kids played with potato head dolls and never 1x did the idea of any-sex marriage while sticking silly noses on them come up. We just made up funny combinations of eyes and lips for a bit and went on to the next toy. 

I dont understand this world where innocuous toy manufacturers are forced to take these stances—either by the fringe public or by people within their organization. You ask why Conservatives are "worked up" over gender sanitizing a children's toy, but not why liberals are offended to the point that they feel a classic potato character is worth this level of energy. I could pretty much bet that if you polled everyone, the "just leave it alone" vote would be well beyond the "this is an outrage" ones. Yes I get that our demographics are shifting, but everyone has the right to buy 2 Mr's or 2 Ms's if thats what they feel fits their family. 
 

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3 hours ago, moleculo said:

Conservatives get all spun up about the silliest things, I swear.

Why did the idea of Mr. Potato head getting renamed and redesigned even come up?

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2 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

I think what conservatives (at least myself) are "getting worked up over" is the idea that purity of just being a child is becoming a political issue.

Bingo. And it's been that way since the '70s. Herewith the story of Baby X. Trying to raise Baby X in a gender-neutral world was difficult, but thanks to a cutesy children's author and Ms. Magazine's fortuitousness, we did it! Anyway, stuff like this was the beginning of the politicization of "just" being a child. There is no "just" being a child to the left. It is always interfere, interfere, interfere.

https://waylandbrown.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/x-story.pdf

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1 minute ago, glvsav37 said:

 why liberals are offended to the point that they feel a classic potato character is worth this level of energy. 
 

What level of energy? Until yesterday I didn’t even know anything about this at all.  I can assure you this hasn’t been some pressing issue in liberal circles.  Hasbro decided to make a change and then of course that was used to rile up the usual suspects on the right.  I don’t even know who the “offended liberals” are in this story.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Bingo. And it's been that way since the '70s. Herewith the story of Baby X. Trying to raise Baby X in a gender-neutral world was difficult, but thanks to a cutesy children's author and Ms. Magazine's fortuitousness, we did it! Anyway, stuff like this was the beginning of the politicization of "just" being a child. There is no "just" being a child to the left. It is always interfere, interfere, interfere.

https://waylandbrown.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/x-story.pdf

The weird thing is that if you're the type of person who's inclined to interrogate children's toys for ideological purity (i.e. infected with brain worms), Mr. Potato Head is arguably friendly to your cause already.  Pretty much every single kid who's ever played with these mixes and matches parts to create their own little Potato Identity that doesn't necessarily correspond to traditional gender roles.  But religious fundamentalists are not well-known for seeing the big picture or letting "good" be good enough.

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3 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What level of energy? Until yesterday I didn’t even know anything about this at all.  I can assure you this hasn’t been some pressing issue in liberal circles.  Hasbro decided to make a change and then of course that was used to rile up the usual suspects on the right.  I don’t even know who the “offended liberals” are in this story.

Presumably somebody somewhere was.  It didn't become a story until HASBRO announced their intentions and reasons.  That's what started it, not the conservative backlash that came after.  Until the pressure to change from somewhere, there was not going to be a change.  It may have been internal, but there was somebody somewhere that said something to drive this.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What level of energy? Until yesterday I didn’t even know anything about this at all.  I can assure you this hasn’t been some pressing issue in liberal circles.  Hasbro decided to make a change and then of course that was used to rile up the usual suspects on the right.  I don’t even know who the “offended liberals” are in this story.

The ones who get so knicker-twisted about anything resembling a traditional depiction of sex or, heaven even more forbid, gender "roles" that a toy company sees a cynical avenue to sell more product by claiming that a genderless experience with a toy that has obvious sex differences is now its intent. Now, everybody can buy the Potato Heads with psychological and moral authority and purity! It's okay folks, we've got over 100 million potatoes served. We're out in front of the whole gender thing on this one.

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Just now, Jayrod said:

Presumably somebody somewhere was.  It didn't become a story until HASBRO announced their intentions and reasons.  That's what started it, not the conservative backlash that came after.  Until the pressure to change from somewhere, there was not going to be a change.  It may have been internal, but there was somebody somewhere that said something to drive this.

There's a well-known iron rule of media coverage that explains this.

When conservatives do something dumb, the headlines read "Conservatives do something dumb."

When progressives do something dumb, the headline read "Conservatives pounce on progressives."  The story is always about conservatives.  It's never about progressives.

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6 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What level of energy? Until yesterday I didn’t even know anything about this at all.  I can assure you this hasn’t been some pressing issue in liberal circles.  Hasbro decided to make a change and then of course that was used to rile up the usual suspects on the right.  I don’t even know who the “offended liberals” are in this story.

Enough energy that Hasbro felt to make a change.  

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3 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The weird thing is that if you're the type of person who's inclined to interrogate children's toys for ideological purity (i.e. infected with brain worms), Mr. Potato Head is arguably friendly to your cause already.  Pretty much every single kid who's ever played with these mixes and matches parts to create their own little Potato Identity that doesn't necessarily correspond to traditional gender roles.  But religious fundamentalists are not well-known for seeing the big picture or letting "good" be good enough.

Yeah, I think Hasbro pulled off a cynical thing here. Thought about it last night. What better way to get gender-identity conscious parents to buy your product than to market an already mutable toy as further mutable, while at the same time allowing for traditionalists to have their Mrs. Potato Head/Mr. Potato Head.

Sounds like it came from the company, but the zeitgeist perfectly allows for it. 

Edited by rockaction
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3 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The weird thing is that if you're the type of person who's inclined to interrogate children's toys for ideological purity (i.e. infected with brain worms), Mr. Potato Head is arguably friendly to your cause already.  Pretty much every single kid who's ever played with these mixes and matches parts to create their own little Potato Identity that doesn't necessarily correspond to traditional gender roles.  But religious fundamentalists are not well-known for seeing the big picture or letting "good" be good enough.

Exactly, I was going to write something similar in my post. Our potato head bucket was a mix of all eyes, ears, hats and whatever. My kids would mix male and female parts all the time, and then do it all over again. Never once did I feel the responsibility to have a discussion with them over the ideas of what they built is right or wrong...just build it and have fun. 

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Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head were given a convenient rebrand with almost no input cost change. Now that's a February miracle. 

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what really is the main problem (for me) here is the use of the term "Mr." and "Ms" that is really what they removed from the boxes and names. The destruction of gender identity is where this conservative gets "worked up" I guess. It has a Tom Selleck mustache but it cant be labeled as male.

Edited by glvsav37
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from the OP story:

Quote

“Hasbro is helping kids to simply see toys as toys, which encourages them to be their authentic selves outside of the pressures of traditional gender norms,” said Rich Ferraro, GLAAD’s chief communications officer, in a statement.

again, my kids always saw them as toys. Why are we accepting adults forcing the idea of "pressured gender norms" on babies? 

What age did your kids stop playing with potato heads.....3, 4?  Do we really need to sanitize that young?  

Edited by glvsav37
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26 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

I think what conservatives (at least myself) are "getting worked up over" is the idea that purity of just being a child is becoming a political issue. As I said earlier, my kids played with potato head dolls and never 1x did the idea of any-sex marriage while sticking silly noses on them come up. We just made up funny combinations of eyes and lips for a bit and went on to the next toy. 

I dont understand this world where innocuous toy manufacturers are forced to take these stances—either by the fringe public or by people within their organization. You ask why Conservatives are "worked up" over gender sanitizing a children's toy, but not why liberals are offended to the point that they feel a classic potato character is worth this level of energy. I could pretty much bet that if you polled everyone, the "just leave it alone" vote would be well beyond the "this is an outrage" ones. Yes I get that our demographics are shifting, but everyone has the right to buy 2 Mr's or 2 Ms's if thats what they feel fits their family. 
 

You still can, and no one forced them

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38 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

what really is the main problem (for me) here is the use of the term "Mr." and "Ms" that is really what they removed from the boxes and names. The destruction of gender identity is where this conservative gets "worked up" I guess. It has a Tom Selleck mustache but it cant be labeled as male.

No mr and mrs are still on some boxes. And this is just making the brand generic

The brand went from mr potato head to potato head  this is the new package

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvGW_BvXUAQVyAg?format=jpg&name=medium 

 

Edited by belljr
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3 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

from the OP story:

again, my kids always saw them as toys. Why are we accepting adults forcing the idea of "pressured gender norms" on babies? 

What age did your kids stop playing with potato heads.....3, 4?  Do we really need to sanitize that young?  

Ask Baby X and Ms. Magazine. Seriously, though, because babies show mentally chosen sex differences and preferences by age two, that burden began to fall to parents and object makers to keep their children as gender neutral as possible so as not to imprint our own gendered expectations on them. If you don't think I'm serious that this is a big movement among second and even some third wave radical feminists, just check out the literature. Or call my ex-girlfriend who explained these to me in nauseating detail.

And yes, it is all about "your" child. Never forget it.

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16 minutes ago, Jayrod said:
20 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What level of energy? Until yesterday I didn’t even know anything about this at all.  I can assure you this hasn’t been some pressing issue in liberal circles.  Hasbro decided to make a change and then of course that was used to rile up the usual suspects on the right.  I don’t even know who the “offended liberals” are in this story.

Presumably somebody somewhere was.  It didn't become a story until HASBRO announced their intentions and reasons.  That's what started it, not the conservative backlash that came after.  Until the pressure to change from somewhere, there was not going to be a change.  It may have been internal, but there was somebody somewhere that said something to drive this.

 

13 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Enough energy that Hasbro felt to make a change.  

So despite the fact that we're actually unaware of any pressure campaign here and haven't identified anyone that says they were "offended," we'll just assume that there was one so that we can criticize "liberals."

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2 minutes ago, belljr said:

You still can, and no one forced them

I don't think you read his whole post.

"I dont understand this world where innocuous toy manufacturers are forced to take these stances—either by the fringe public or by people within their organization"

Because somebody technically "forced" them to change it, or they wouldn't have changed it. Res ipsa loquitur.

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Anyway, this has indeed gone the typical way these debates go. A change is undergone to meet a modern liberal shibboleth. Conservatives complain that it's another thing they either have to abide or explain to the children that they don't want to yet (in this case, both) and liberals demand to know the who? what? when? how? and why? the change happened in that specific instance and who it will effect, really, this micro change?

The answer is simple: Fifty years of social pressure from the radical left and the zeitgeist now bows in the face of its pressure to where fifty years of complaints, no matter how foolish, are accepted as a bargaining point. That's when. That's who. That's how. That's where. And that's why.

Edited by rockaction
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7 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

 

So despite the fact that we're actually unaware of any pressure campaign here and haven't identified anyone that says they were "offended," we'll just assume that there was one so that we can criticize "liberals."

To act like there was no one anywhere saying or doing anything to facilitate this change is intellectually dishonest.  You are smarter than that, so don't play dumb here.

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According to hasbro you can still buy mr and mrs potato heads, and easter potato heads and baby potato heads and Christmas potato heads.  And generic potato heads that you can interchange all different things like before.

I'm still confused how "they removed gender identities"

And I'm not even a democrat, or woke liberal or whatever the new dumb term is.

I'm confused how this became a hot button topic.

 

Edited by belljr
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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

 

So despite the fact that we're actually unaware of any pressure campaign here and haven't identified anyone that says they were "offended," we'll just assume that there was one so that we can criticize "liberals."

Actually there may not be outrage.  It could be some brilliant marketer who pitched it to the right people at Hasbro who want to be on the cutting edge of this hot new market.  

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19 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hasbro is now transphobic and must be cancelled.

I was recently made aware that if I become less attracted to a woman after learning she has a frank and beans then I'm transphobic. Getting intense out there.

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I also think there's something weird about the position of anti-trans folks here but it's hard for me to put a finger on it.

Anti-trans folks:  "This whole trans thing is a load of crap -- whatever genitals you're born with, that's your gender!"

Me:  "OK, well this toy here doesn't actually have genitals"

Anti-trans folks: "Well of course it doesn't have genitals, it's a toy for children you pervert!"

Me: "OK, then maybe we should just call it something neutral like 'Potato Head'"

Anti-trans folks: "We can't have that!  We need children to know that it's important to distinguish things by their immutable physical characteristics, especially ding-dongs and hoo-has!  If they don't learn that society will be ruined!"

Me:  "Well how are we doing that here?  These toys don't have ding-dongs and hoo-has.  And the whole point of the toy is that the physical characteristics are NOT immutable.  You can put a mustache on the 'female' potato!  You can put an arm in the leg hole!  Isn't that confusing to kids?  Are they going to grow up thinking that arms can go in leg holes?"

Anti-trans folks: "Of course not, that's absurd!  These kids are smart!  We just want to make sure they don't lose sight of the fact that there are different genders and that those genders are based solely on physical characteristics.  Is that too much to ask?"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head and  Mr. Potato Head look almost exactly the same when you take the stuff off of them, just one is a little smaller.  Won't these smart kids reach the exact opposite conclusion that you want?  It seems to me like callling almost identical toys "Mr." and "Mrs." suggests that there isn't very much different about the genders at all.

Anti-trans folks:  "The kids aren't THAT smart!  Anyway, we'll have them come with a mustache already on Mr. Potato Head and big red lips on Mrs. Potato Head so there's no confusion!"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head can still put on the mustache and Mr. Potato Head can wear the big red lips right, once you take them out of the box?  

Anti-trans folks: "Well sure, that's what makes it fun!

 

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8 minutes ago, mrip541 said:

I was recently made aware that if I become less attracted to a woman after learning she has a frank and beans then I'm transphobic. Getting intense out there.

:mellow:

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I also think there's something weird about the position of anti-trans folks here but it's hard for me to put a finger on it.

Anti-trans folks:  "This whole trans thing is a load of crap -- whatever genitals you're born with, that's your gender!"

Me:  "OK, well this toy here doesn't actually have genitals"

Anti-trans folks: "Well of course it doesn't have genitals, it's a toy for children you pervert!"

Me: "OK, then maybe we should just call it something neutral like 'Potato Head'"

Anti-trans folks: "We can't have that!  We need children to know that it's important to distinguish things by their immutable physical characteristics, especially ding-dongs and hoo-has!  If they don't learn that society will be ruined!"

Me:  "Well how are we doing that here?  These toys don't have ding-dongs and hoo-has.  And the whole point of the toy is that the physical characteristics are NOT immutable.  You can put a mustache on the 'female' potato!  You can put an arm in the leg hole!  Isn't that confusing to kids?  Are they going to grow up thinking that arms can go in leg holes?"

Anti-trans folks: "Of course not, that's absurd!  These kids are smart!  We just want to make sure they don't lose sight of the fact that there are different genders and that those genders are based solely on physical characteristics.  Is that too much to ask?"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head and  Mr. Potato Head look almost exactly the same when you take the stuff off of them, just one is a little smaller.  Won't these smart kids reach the exact opposite conclusion that you want?  It seems to me like callling almost identical toys "Mr." and "Mrs." suggests that there isn't very much different about the genders at all.

Anti-trans folks:  "The kids aren't THAT smart!  Anyway, we'll have them come with a mustache already on Mr. Potato Head and big red lips on Mrs. Potato Head so there's no confusion!"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head can still put on the mustache and Mr. Potato Head can wear the big red lips right, once you take them out of the box?  

Anti-trans folks: "Well sure, that's what makes it fun!

 

Yeah, punch that strawman, kick his ###, Seabass!!!

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17 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

To act like there was no one anywhere saying or doing anything to facilitate this change is intellectually dishonest.  You are smarter than that, so don't play dumb here.

I didn't say that.  But it seems very different to me if someone in Hasbro product development was like "hey, I have a good idea" as opposed to a bunch of angry liberals boycotting Hasbro until they changed it.  Based on the information we have, this seems more like the former.

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11 minutes ago, mrip541 said:

I was recently made aware that if I become less attracted to a woman after learning she has a frank and beans then I'm transphobic. Getting intense out there.

If you aren't attracted to an overweight person than you are a body shamer

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7 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I also think there's something weird about the position of anti-trans folks here but it's hard for me to put a finger on it.

Anti-trans folks:  "This whole trans thing is a load of crap -- whatever genitals you're born with, that's your gender!"

Me:  "OK, well this toy here doesn't actually have genitals"

Anti-trans folks: "Well of course it doesn't have genitals, it's a toy for children you pervert!"

Me: "OK, then maybe we should just call it something neutral like 'Potato Head'"

Anti-trans folks: "We can't have that!  We need children to know that it's important to distinguish things by their immutable physical characteristics, especially ding-dongs and hoo-has!  If they don't learn that society will be ruined!"

Me:  "Well how are we doing that here?  These toys don't have ding-dongs and hoo-has.  And the whole point of the toy is that the physical characteristics are NOT immutable.  You can put a mustache on the 'female' potato!  You can put an arm in the leg hole!  Isn't that confusing to kids?  Are they going to grow up thinking that arms can go in leg holes?"

Anti-trans folks: "Of course not, that's absurd!  These kids are smart!  We just want to make sure they don't lose sight of the fact that there are different genders and that those genders are based solely on physical characteristics.  Is that too much to ask?"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head and  Mr. Potato Head look almost exactly the same when you take the stuff off of them, just one is a little smaller.  Won't these smart kids reach the exact opposite conclusion that you want?  It seems to me like callling almost identical toys "Mr." and "Mrs." suggests that there isn't very much different about the genders at all.

Anti-trans folks:  "The kids aren't THAT smart!  Anyway, we'll have them come with a mustache already on Mr. Potato Head and big red lips on Mrs. Potato Head so there's no confusion!"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head can still put on the mustache and Mr. Potato Head can wear the big red lips right, once you take them out of the box?  

Anti-trans folks: "Well sure, that's what makes it fun!

 

This is why I’m not a free-thinker.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

"Yes. Here's this foot in your ###. You seem awfully worked up about it, don't you?" 

That's about your line of argument. Or try this one from trans world. "Boy, we just had our son Bobby come home with papers to sign about gender reassignment. He's ten. Don't we just get worked up about the silliest of things? I swear..."

My line of argument is that the gender of the potato head line of toys is not anywhere near a foot up your ###.  Apologise if I wasn't clear.

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1 hour ago, glvsav37 said:

Exactly, I was going to write something similar in my post. Our potato head bucket was a mix of all eyes, ears, hats and whatever. My kids would mix male and female parts all the time, and then do it all over again. Never once did I feel the responsibility to have a discussion with them over the ideas of what they built is right or wrong...just build it and have fun. 

You monster. Please tell me you at least talk to your kids about the Muppet Show.

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3 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I also think there's something weird about the position of anti-trans folks here but it's hard for me to put a finger on it.

Anti-trans folks:  "This whole trans thing is a load of crap -- whatever genitals you're born with, that's your gender!"

Me:  "OK, well this toy here doesn't actually have genitals"

Anti-trans folks: "Well of course it doesn't have genitals, it's a toy for children you pervert!"

Me: "OK, then maybe we should just call it something neutral like 'Potato Head'"

Anti-trans folks: "We can't have that!  We need children to know that it's important to distinguish things by their immutable physical characteristics, especially ding-dongs and hoo-has!  If they don't learn that society will be ruined!"

Me:  "Well how are we doing that here?  These toys don't have ding-dongs and hoo-has.  And the whole point of the toy is that the physical characteristics are NOT immutable.  You can put a mustache on the 'female' potato!  You can put an arm in the leg hole!  Isn't that confusing to kids?  Are they going to grow up thinking that arms can go in leg holes?"

Anti-trans folks: "Of course not, that's absurd!  These kids are smart!  We just want to make sure they don't lose sight of the fact that there are different genders and that those genders are based solely on physical characteristics.  Is that too much to ask?"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head and  Mr. Potato Head look almost exactly the same when you take the stuff off of them, just one is a little smaller.  Won't these smart kids reach the exact opposite conclusion that you want?  It seems to me like callling almost identical toys "Mr." and "Mrs." suggests that there isn't very much different about the genders at all.

Anti-trans folks:  "The kids aren't THAT smart!  Anyway, we'll have them come with a mustache already on Mr. Potato Head and big red lips on Mrs. Potato Head so there's no confusion!"

Me:  "But Mrs. Potato Head can still put on the mustache and Mr. Potato Head can wear the big red lips right, once you take them out of the box?  

Anti-trans folks: "Well sure, that's what makes it fun!

 

I don't think that's really how the argument is going. I, personally, was less focused on the trans element than the radical feminist notion that we can have gender-neutral toys by abolishing the usually abided-by deterministic aspect of what sex differentiation means within said toys by eliminating the sex differentiation itself. That seemed to me to be more the impetus driving this. I used one trans example, but it shouldn't have colored the whole argument. My beef was more with the '70s than the '20s, and I think this is a culmination of those '70s attitudes mixed with the attitudes of the '20s toward biological sex leading to this decision. It isn't solely a "trans/anti-trans" issue. And I don't particularly like the word "anti-trans," especially when it comes to issues with minors. I think reasonable people can disagree about pre-pubescent issues within that argument without the blanket terms "transphobia" or "anti-trans" being ascribed to them. 

And, my word, did Hasbro score a coup in marketing to this demographic, didn't it?

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3 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I also think there's something weird about the position of anti-trans folks here 

I'm pretty conservative but I don't think I know a single anti-trans person.

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