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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!)


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7 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

Fair. Fewer allegations of rape than at least a couple drafted ahead of him and a more likable person than Rick Barry or Isiah Thomas though.

Fun fact:  I passed on Rick Barry over D-Wade because he quit on his team in the playoffs.  My locker room doesn't need a cancer like that.

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Is there a prize in this for nice guys? 

I picked Malone, so I hope not but all else being equal, I would pick somebody that wasn't an ####### over somebody that was.

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Is there a prize in this for nice guys? 

I picked Malone, so I hope not but all else being equal, I would pick somebody that wasn't an ####### over somebody that was.

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Just now, Kev4029 said:

I picked Malone, so I hope not but all else being equal, I would pick somebody that wasn't an ####### over somebody that was.

Part of the appeal of Zeke is that he's not nice. He looks friendly but if I need an opponent hurt, Isiah will gladly take a cheap shot on him. 

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3.13 -- Reggie Miller, 90's SG.

Reggie Miller is the purest and most magnificent shooter to ever step foot on a basketball court. It's not even close.

Miller spent 18 years as an Indiana Pacers player. During that span, the Pacers made the playoffs 15 times (reaching the Eastern Conference Finals in six of them) and only experienced four losing seasons (barely).

All with Miller, a jump shooter, as the team's superstar.

Not an all-around stud like Michael Jordan. Not a bruising power forward like Karl Malone. Not a dominant and versatile center like Hakeem Olajuwon.

But a jump shooter.

For 18 years, in an average of 77.2 games per season, Miller spent 34-plus minutes of each game running... and running... and running around screens, until he barely freed himself up to catch a pass every defender knew was coming and was trying to stop.

And then in one lightning quick motion, with a defender a nanosecond behind, Miller would turn his body, elevate, and slingshot the ball at the rim, just beating the outstretched arm and hand that was coming to block his attempt.

Swish.

Miller would do this continuously all game long and couldn't be stopped. One would think his legs would get tired at some point or that he would take a play or two off to catch a breather, but these moments never came.

If the defender didn't run this marathon with him, and do everything possible to keep him from getting a shot off, Miller would kill him.

And it's not like the 6'7" Miller was working his ### off to get layups. He was running defenders into the ground just to get the ball, and usually pulling up from 18 to 24 feet out.

Are you familiar with the statistic, True Shooting Percentage (TSP)? TSP is a APBRmetrics (Sabermetrics for basketball) value that measures shooting efficiency. It is essentially points scored per shooting possession.

Of all the players in basketball history with averages of at least 25 minutes per game played and eight shots per game attempted, only xxxxxx, yyyyyyy and zzzzzz rank ahead of Miller. xxxxxx and yyyyyyy were centers, and zzzzzz didn't shoot from the outside much.

Meanwhile, Miller is the all-time leader in three-pointers attempted, with 6,486.

In other words, the one player who took the most long-range shots in history is also the game's most efficient shooter. Wow.

When it came to clutch play, Miller is only rivaled by Jordan, Larry Bird ,and Jerry West. Who could forget Game One of the 1995 Eastern Conference Finals when he scored eight points in 8.9 seconds in a come-from-behind win over the Knicks in New York?

The 25 points in the Fourth Quarter against the Knicks, during which he jawed with Spike Lee and gave him the choke sign.

That insane 40-foot turnaround bank shot at the buzzer against the New Jersey Nets to send Game Five of the 2002 Playoffs into overtime.

The time he freed himself up from Jordan with 2.9 seconds left in Game Four of the 1998 Conference Finals to hit a game-winning three.

The list goes on. Few people have hit as many important shots as Miller.

The greatest shooter the game has ever seen, Miller was inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame in 2012.

^ written 2010

@scoobus

Edited by higgins
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4 minutes ago, higgins said:

3.13 -- Reggie Miller, 90's SG.

Reggie Miller is the purest and most magnificent shooter to ever step foot on a basketball court. It's not even close.

^ written 2010

 

That note at the bottom there is a key, because there is clearly a new sheriff in town.

ETA:  I like the pick, though.  He compliments Dr. J well, IMO, because his defender can never leave him on the 3 pt line, leaving driving lanes open for the Doc to do what he does best.

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3.14 Jason Kidd, PG, 00s

Couple ways to go here, but we’ll go with the much stingier defense. Phenomenal passer, 2nd all-time in assists and steals, good rebounder for his position, bunch of all nbas and all defensive first and second teams. Also turned himself into a pretty great spot up 3 point shooter at the end of the decade. As good of a player on the court as he was bad of a head coach.

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28 minutes ago, higgins said:

3.13 -- Reggie Miller, 90's SG.

Reggie Miller is the purest and most magnificent shooter to ever step foot on a basketball court. It's not even close.

Is Reggie even the best shooter in the Miller family driveway?  C'mon man. 😁

24 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

 like the pick, though.  He compliments Dr. J well, IMO, because his defender can never leave him on the 3 pt line, leaving driving lanes open for the Doc to do what he does best.

Agreed.  Higgins did well to add a great  shooter alongside Dr. J for his squad.  Nice skill set compliment.

Edited by trader jake
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9 hours ago, Frostillicus said:

Love this team so far. dont screw it up.

yeah i really wanted Kawhi at the turn, looking at his stats and career arc i think he may be the best pick in this 3rd round

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11 minutes ago, scoobus said:

3.14 Jason Kidd, PG, 00s

Couple ways to go here, but we’ll go with the much stingier defense. Phenomenal passer, 2nd all-time in assists and steals, good rebounder for his position, bunch of all nbas and all defensive first and second teams. Also turned himself into a pretty great spot up 3 point shooter at the end of the decade. As good of a player on the court as he was bad of a head coach.

I debated Kidd and Paul for my pick.  Decided I liked Paul just a bit better.

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3.15 Steve Nash, PG 00s

Nash is the last multiple MVP winner available. The 00s Suns and Nash revolutionized the NBA offensively with the 7 seconds or less offense. In some ways its disappointing that he didn't come a few years later where he could have been unleashed in a bit more of a heliocentries role similar to Curry or Harden surrounded by other great shooters.

My Malone-Nash PnR should be at least as dynamic as Malone and Stockton (or Nash's former teammate for that matter).

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1 minute ago, Kev4029 said:

3.15 Steve Nash, PG 00s

Nash is the last multiple MVP winner available. The 00s Suns and Nash revolutionized the NBA offensively with the 7 seconds or less offense. In some ways its disappointing that he didn't come a few years later where he could have been unleashed in a bit more of a heliocentries role similar to Curry or Harden surrounded by other great shooters.

My Malone-Nash PnR should be at least as dynamic as Malone and Stockton (or Nash's former teammate for that matter).

And this is the other guy was looking at with Kidd.

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Need some newbies to team up with my olds. Yo Mama selects:

 

3.16 - Anthony Davis - PF 10s

 

Just an amazingly complete defender. He can protect the rim, he can switch out on guards on the wing, and he can do everything in between. 
 

He’s also an offensive unicorn - his ball handling and footwork have always been incredible for his size.  Now he’s added a reliable 3pt shot, solid passing, and deadly midrange game to the mix. 
 

Career averages of 23.9/10.3/2.3 to go with 1.4 steals and 2.4 blocks. 
 

1x champ

8x all-star

4x all-nba (all 1st team)

4x all-defense

 

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9 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

Ugh, Kidd and Nash back to back right before my turn. 

Kidd & Nash were right there with Paul for me  and they ended up going in the order I had them.  

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5 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

Need some newbies to team up with my olds. Yo Mama selects:

 

3.16 - Anthony Davis - PF 10s

Dang. But it was pretty unlikely he'd last until my 4th pick.

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Just now, Gally said:

Kidd & Nash were right there with Paul for me  and they ended up going in the order I had them.  

Ditto.  I had Kidd as my next best player overall after CP3 went.  Think he was the best value of this round.

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Since the PGs I wanted were crudely snatched right before me, I need to change course. Also, Jayrod started Jayrodding with his “there is...another” greatest pure shooter talk, so Yo Mama selects:

 

4.01 - Klay Thompson - SG 10s

 

I need shooting and perimeter defense for my team, and he was created in a lab to do both. One of the greatest pure shooters of all time.  Might not have the career accomplishments (yet) as others still to be drafted, but he’s a perfect fit on my team. 
 

Career averages of 19.5/3.5/2.3 with a steal and half a block. 
 

3x champ (and his injury was a key factor they didn’t get 4)

5x all-star

2x all-nba

1x all-defense

More points than dribbles (I think)

 

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7 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

Since the PGs I wanted were crudely snatched right before me, I need to change course. Also, Jayrod started Jayrodding with his “there is...another” greatest pure shooter talk, so Yo Mama selects:

 

4.01 - Klay Thompson - SG 10s

 

I need shooting and perimeter defense for my team, and he was created in a lab to do both. One of the greatest pure shooters of all time.  Might not have the career accomplishments (yet) as others still to be drafted, but he’s a perfect fit on my team. 
 

Career averages of 19.5/3.5/2.3 with a steal and half a block. 
 

3x champ (and his injury was a key factor they didn’t get 4)

5x all-star

2x all-nba

1x all-defense

More points than dribbles (I think)

 

Dammit.  

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4.02 Bill Walton, C 70s

I went back and forth between Walton and another tough big man to place in this conversation. Walton fits incredibly well amongst a team full of superstars with his defense, rebounding, and passing ability. 

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1 minute ago, Kev4029 said:

4.02 Bill Walton, C 70s

I went back and forth between Walton and another tough big man to place in this conversation. Walton fits incredibly well amongst a team full of superstars with his defense, rebounding, and passing ability. 

The ultimate lightning rod in brief brilliance vs prolonged success.  At his peak, he was as good as Kareem and Wilt, but it only lasted about a season and a half.  In fact, he only played in the playoffs 4 times in his entire career and 2 of those he came off the bench for the C's and one he only played in 2 games.  Basically he only had one great run as the man.

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4.03 Ray Allen, SG, 00s

Doesn’t have the accolades some others have, and I have way too many 00s guys now, but we’re building teams here! Pretty good shooter I’d say, all time 3 point leader or something. If he had got taken on the turn was going to take Klay who I thought others would see as a reach, but looks like he’s valued more in line with what I was thinking. Higgins taking Reggie Miller right before my 3rd rounder made me scared I wasn’t going to get 1 of those 3.

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This guy gets plenty of grief (some deserved?) regarding his need to be the focal point; BUT, as this team is constructed (with key offensive players shining in their preferred roles/strengths), he fits perfectly.

4.04 --  Russell Westbrook, 10's PG. <-- already 13th in assists & second in career triple doubles at age 32

@Doug B

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5 minutes ago, scoobus said:

4.03 Ray Allen, SG, 00s

Doesn’t have the accolades some others have, and I have way too many 00s guys now, but we’re building teams here! Pretty good shooter I’d say, all time 3 point leader or something. If he had got taken on the turn was going to take Klay who I thought others would see as a reach, but looks like he’s valued more in line with what I was thinking. Higgins taking Reggie Miller right before my 3rd rounder made me scared I wasn’t going to get 1 of those 3.

I had Reggie, Allen, and Klay all pretty close on my personal list. Thought Klay might be a reach, but figured he’d be long gone before my next pick anyway. 

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14 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

The ultimate lightning rod in brief brilliance vs prolonged success.  At his peak, he was as good as Kareem and Wilt, but it only lasted about a season and a half.  In fact, he only played in the playoffs 4 times in his entire career and 2 of those he came off the bench for the C's and one he only played in 2 games.  Basically he only had one great run as the man.

I think that run in the mid 80s with the Celtics kind of cemented his legacy. Nearly crippled and in his mid 30s, he was still a major contributor to a championship team. 

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3 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

I had Reggie, Allen, and Klay all pretty close on my personal list. Thought Klay might be a reach, but figured he’d be long gone before my next pick anyway. 

I’m an idiot and thought he might fall all the way back to my 5th due to his lack of accolades. Was thiiiiiiiis close haha.

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27 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

4.02 Bill Walton, C 70s

I went back and forth between Walton and another tough big man to place in this conversation. Walton fits incredibly well amongst a team full of superstars with his defense, rebounding, and passing ability. 

he played center better than i ever seen it played, but i'm tired of fighting longevity biases.

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11 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

he played center better than i ever seen it played, but i'm tired of fighting longevity biases.

It isn't "bias".  Availability matters in life and basketball.  A player isn't much good to his team on the sideline in street clothes or back home in rehab.  Sure he's great, but only one year of playoffs left the Blazers feeling empty over many seasons.

Like I said as great as anybody, when available, but too many times he just wasn't.

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16 minutes ago, Yo Mama said:

I had Reggie, Allen, and Klay all pretty close on my personal list. Thought Klay might be a reach, but figured he’d be long gone before my next pick anyway. 

I understand why Klay is being lumped into that group, he is their equal as a shooter and by far the best defender, but those two were the best player of playoff teams and Klay has never been better than the 3rd best. And whereas Allen and Reggie seemed to often improve their games in the playoffs, Klay had been mostly between bad and fine.

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26 minutes ago, higgins said:

This guy gets plenty of grief (some deserved?) regarding his need to be the focal point; BUT, as this team is constructed (with key offensive players shining in their preferred roles/strengths), he fits perfectly.

4.04 --  Russell Westbrook, 10's PG. <-- already 13th in assists & second in career triple doubles at age 32

@Doug B

He's great, but one of those guys who is sometimes subtraction by addition.

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2 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

It isn't "bias".  Availability matters in life and basketball.  A player isn't much good to his team on the sideline in street clothes or back home in rehab.  Sure he's great, but only one year of playoffs left the Blazers feeling empty over many seasons.

Like I said as great as anybody, when available, but too many times he just wasn't.

brilliance is all that matters. if we are not saints, we are bugs

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5 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

I understand why Klay is being lumped into that group, he is their equal as a shooter and by far the best defender, but those two were the best player of playoff teams and Klay has never been better than the 3rd best. And whereas Allen and Reggie seemed to often improve their games in the playoffs, Klay had been mostly between bad and fine.

Definitely Reggie and Ray have better careers, but I decided to go with a more recent player (coin flip between him and Allen). Also, Klay’s career playoff averages are all at or better than his regular season averages.  Not sure how that’s between bad and fine.  :shrug:

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

4.05: SF Paul George, 2010s

Many excellent attributes which I will detail in a later post.
 

@Mister CIA

And I was wrong.  Good pick, though.

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48 minutes ago, Kev4029 said:

I understand why Klay is being lumped into that group, he is their equal as a shooter and by far the best defender, but those two were the best player of playoff teams and Klay has never been better than the 3rd best. And whereas Allen and Reggie seemed to often improve their games in the playoffs, Klay had been mostly between bad and fine.

Agree with this to a degree. Klay has had the luxury of playing with the greatest shooter of all time as his guard counterpart for his entire career. Would’ve been interesting to see him as the #1 option on a team during his prime and how that would’ve gone.

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  • Yo Mama changed the title to ***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!)

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