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The Covid Relief Bill (2 Viewers)

As much as a certain person has screamed about voter fraud - it just isn't a thing. Like for real. It isn't a thing
Just because you say it isn't a thing doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Independent people have gone out to some of the addresses on the verified voter list and found that they didn't exist in both Michigan and Nevada. Yet they had an absentee ballot from the address that registered a vote. This is just a couple hundred. If regular people can do this verification, why cant our government?

 
Just because you say it isn't a thing doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Independent people have gone out to some of the addresses on the verified voter list and found that they didn't exist in both Michigan and Nevada. Yet they had an absentee ballot from the address that registered a vote. This is just a couple hundred. If regular people can do this verification, why cant our government?
Why hasn’t someone reported this in court? To a judge?

h/t SID

 
Just because you say it isn't a thing doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Independent people have gone out to some of the addresses on the verified voter list and found that they didn't exist in both Michigan and Nevada. Yet they had an absentee ballot from the address that registered a vote. This is just a couple hundred. If regular people can do this verification, why cant our government?
Our government has run many verifications.

There is no evidence of such widespread voter fraud.  Not in MI, not in Nevada.

 
Our government has run many verifications.

There is no evidence of such widespread voter fraud.  Not in MI, not in Nevada.
What constitutes widespread? Hundred is not enough? A thousand then? At what point is it considered "widespread" enough that it's worth looking into?

 
What constitutes widespread? Hundred is not enough? A thousand then? At what point is it considered "widespread" enough that it's worth looking into?
It was “looked into” about 60 times in court in the lawsuits filed by the Trump campaign. Are you aware of this?

 
It was “looked into” about 60 times in court in the lawsuits filed by the Trump campaign. Are you aware of this?
Dismissing cases on procedural standing is not "looking into it." If regular citizens can go to addresses on the voted list and see that they are not real, then I would say they were not looked into very thoroughly if at all. 

 
Dismissing cases on procedural standing is not "looking into it." If regular citizens can go to addresses on the voted list and see that they are not real, then I would say they were not looked into very thoroughly if at all. 
If you want to prove voter fraud you’re going to have to go to court, and win...

Can you post a link to the story you are referring to?

Why did these regular citizens not take this information to an election official?

 
What constitutes widespread? Hundred is not enough? A thousand then? At what point is it considered "widespread" enough that it's worth looking into?
Statistically significant.

I doubt there was even one hundred in those states.  And even that is so insignificant.

 
If you want to prove voter fraud you’re going to have to go to court, and win...

Can you post a link to the story you are referring to?

Why did these regular citizens not take this information to an election official?
my niece got 3 absentee ballots.  Yes, three.  Maricopa county, AZ .  Her deceased mother got two & she has been dead for 3 years.  The deceased mother also got 2 stimulus checks.  We did mail them back.  Oh yea, these mail in ballots worked real good. 

 
my niece got 3 absentee ballots.  Yes, three.  Maricopa county, AZ .  Her deceased mother got two & she has been dead for 3 years.  The deceased mother also got 2 stimulus checks.  We did mail them back.  Oh yea, these mail in ballots worked real good. 
Why does it matter if they inadvertently mailed someone an extra ballot or two? As long as they only count one per voter, who cares? I'd much rather them accidentally send a duplicate (knowing that they'll only accept one per voter) than for them to inadvertently NOT send someone a ballot, especially of the person's only access to voting is by mail.

ETA: I agree sending ballots to someone who has been dead that long doesn't look good, but would only be a problem if someone tried to use the ballot to place a vote on the dead person's behalf and the election office actually used it in their tally. I don't know if that has happened but that would obviously be wrong.

 
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Why does it matter if they inadvertently mailed someone an extra ballot or two? As long as they only count one per voter, who cares? I'd much rather them accidentally send a duplicate (knowing that they'll only accept one per voter) than for them to inadvertently NOT send someone a ballot, especially of the person's only access to voting is by mail.

ETA: I agree sending ballots to someone who has been dead that long doesn't look good, but would only be a problem if someone tried to use the ballot to place a vote on the dead person's behalf and the election office actually used it in their tally. I don't know if that has happened but that would obviously be wrong.
she can vote in person.  "as long as they only count one per voter".   Yea I agree but she sent in two and laughed about it.  so what, do I turn her in?   She is 27 years old.

I like that though, "so long as they only count one per voter".  so you have faith in the one per voter.  More power to you.  I don't.  The two stimulus checks given to someone dead for two years kind of give me pause as to the overall efficiency of anything government run including the mail in ballots.  Oh & I did Pam's taxes & let them know three years ago she was deceased.  no I'm not an accountant or CPA>

 
my niece got 3 absentee ballots.  Yes, three.  Maricopa county, AZ .  Her deceased mother got two & she has been dead for 3 years.  The deceased mother also got 2 stimulus checks.  We did mail them back.  Oh yea, these mail in ballots worked real good. 
I believe I also received more than one ballot in Maricopa county. Only one counts. Also, it might be a good idea let the proper authorities know that her mother passed away, clearly federal records are not updated.

 
"What's wrong with extra ballots being sent out?"   :mellow:

:lmao:
Anecdotal claims that don't amount to fraud (well except the niece who sent in two committed a bit).  And claims always just happen to be by those who pean to the side of thinking there is some major fraud out there.   Sure, lets go with that as proof.

 
What constitutes widespread? Hundred is not enough? A thousand then? At what point is it considered "widespread" enough that it's worth looking into?
So to stop hundreds...we'll disenfranchise thousands?

I don't think there's anyone in the political game who believes that R's want every American to vote.

 
Dismissing cases on procedural standing is not "looking into it." If regular citizens can go to addresses on the voted list and see that they are not real, then I would say they were not looked into very thoroughly if at all. 
They are always looking in to improving things. It's sort of a complex issue, it will never be perfect.

 
she can vote in person.  "as long as they only count one per voter".   Yea I agree but she sent in two and laughed about it.  so what, do I turn her in?   She is 27 years old.

I like that though, "so long as they only count one per voter".  so you have faith in the one per voter.  More power to you.  I don't.  The two stimulus checks given to someone dead for two years kind of give me pause as to the overall efficiency of anything government run including the mail in ballots.  Oh & I did Pam's taxes & let them know three years ago she was deceased.  no I'm not an accountant or CPA>
What about if a person goes to two different voting stations and votes at both of them?  Is that possible?  One would probably have to be a provisional ballot. 

If this is possible, do you trust voting stations on election day where this fraud can run rampant.

 
Lol Mitch McConnell. Talking to reporters today he said “there’s going to be an economic boom coming. And when it comes, it will have absolutely nothing to do with this 1.9 trillion.” 

He knows what’s going to happen, and he knows exactly how the public is going to respond to it. And he hopes to stop them. But he won’t. 

 
The Z Machine said:
You say that you're concerned with voter fraud, but when you have direct knowledge of actual, perpetrated fraud you do nothing. 

Something doesn't smell right. 
What? People know of lots of crimes that they don't turn people in for.

 
The goal should be to make sure only Americans are voting and only 1 time. 
What evidence do you have that the “goal” is not already the case?  I’ve yet to see or read anything based in fact that suggests non-Americans are voting or that they are voting more than one time.  

and, even if I grant you that it has happened on a nominal scale, you have all the work still in front of you to show that it made any difference whatsoever in an election where ~150 million ballots were cast.  

“Election fraud” is a straw man narrative the GOP has fabricated to justify taking measures to disenfranchise voters (mostly black and urban) so it can have a fighting chance to win elections.    

 
Insein said:
Just because you say it isn't a thing doesn't mean it isn't a thing. Independent people have gone out to some of the addresses on the verified voter list and found that they didn't exist in both Michigan and Nevada. Yet they had an absentee ballot from the address that registered a vote. This is just a couple hundred. If regular people can do this verification, why cant our government?
Here’s a link that contradicts your claim. Please show me a link that supports your claim. I live in Michigan and I don’t believe you.

Here’s another

Here’s how they handle absentee ballots

I can go on. Show me where you’re getting this information you’re so sure of please.

 
Thank god this thing passed. 

Dead serious. Without this bill democrats would have kep covid clamps on as long as possible. 

Now you can already see the narrative shift that this bill will be what sparks our growth. In reality growth is going to happen because this pandemic is on its last legs. 

Now that we have this bill the shackles will come off much faster. Sentiment will change real fast. 

Its going to be awesome. 

 
The Z Machine said:
You say that you're concerned with voter fraud, but when you have direct knowledge of actual, perpetrated fraud you do nothing. 

Something doesn't smell right. 
so I'm going to turn in my niece for sending in two ballots?  No thanks.  If you don't believe the story that is fine with me also.

 
Sand said:
Relief bill put into law that states aren't allowed to enact tax cuts?  Seems blatantly unconstitutional and I'm sure it will be challenged.
There is a provision in the bill that says if states are going to cut taxes to provide stimulus etc then the states can't use the COVID funds being given them by the fed government to cover the shortfalls they may create by cutting taxes.  Is that what this opinion piece is trying to spin?  Hard to tell since they don't even mention the specific portion of the bill they are talking about (at least the portion that I can read without having a subscription doesn't mention it).  I really hate opinion pieces as evidence of anything :wall:  

 
timschochet said:
Lol Mitch McConnell. Talking to reporters today he said “there’s going to be an economic boom coming. And when it comes, it will have absolutely nothing to do with this 1.9 trillion.” 

He knows what’s going to happen, and he knows exactly how the public is going to respond to it. And he hopes to stop them. But he won’t. 
Yeah.

Mitch not pushing the money onto the table for the GA runoffs is going to haunt him for the rest of his political career.  At the least with the R's in charge of the Senate...he could have claimed some of the boom for his Party.  As it stands now, he has to resort to A) hoping the boom fails...for which he can blame Biden or B) try to push the accolades onto former President Trump....which hurts his position in the Party.  

Don't get involved in a land war in Asia....Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line....don't refuse giving money back to your constituents during an election year. 

 
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There is a provision in the bill that says if states are going to cut taxes to provide stimulus etc then the states can't use the COVID funds being given them by the fed government to cover the shortfalls they may create by cutting taxes.  Is that what this opinion piece is trying to spin?  Hard to tell since they don't even mention the specific portion of the bill they are talking about (at least the portion that I can read without having a subscription doesn't mention it).  I really hate opinion pieces as evidence of anything :wall:  
Yet again, "we want covid relief to be targeted", but "we don't want to target covid relief so much that it prevents payments to states that wouldn't need help if they didn't cut taxes".

 
shadrap said:
she can vote in person.  "as long as they only count one per voter".   Yea I agree but she sent in two and laughed about it.  so what, do I turn her in?   She is 27 years old.

I like that though, "so long as they only count one per voter".  so you have faith in the one per voter.  More power to you.  I don't.  The two stimulus checks given to someone dead for two years kind of give me pause as to the overall efficiency of anything government run including the mail in ballots.  Oh & I did Pam's taxes & let them know three years ago she was deceased.  no I'm not an accountant or CPA>
The follow up question is did they both get counted?  

I have 0 doubt that multiples get mailed out.   We are talking about government and human error here.    But when we are talking about the small % of time that multiples got mailed, compounded with the small % of the time that when there were multiples mailed out those multiples all got sent back, and then add on the small % of time when they were mailed back somebody didn't catch the mulitples and they counted.       Do you really believe this has noticeable effect on a national election?

 

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