The Covid Relief Bill

[Cowboysfan8 8,008]

55 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It’s going to pass even with the “garbage.”

So the immediate help that was so desperately needed and promised to hurting Americans was just bull#### lies to get elected, right?

[GoBirds 10,453]

30 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

You might not like the bill but your criticisms that Dems weren’t delivering on their promises and don’t truly want to help people seem misguided.

On January 3 Biden promised if you voted for his guys checks would “go out immediately “. Your blind defense of him not delivering seems misguided to me. 
 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90607300/but-seriously-where-are-the-stimulus-checks-joe

 

I’m sure there are some gymnastics to give him a pass here but he failed, sorry. 

[GoBirds 10,453]

5 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

So the immediate help that was so desperately needed and promised to hurting Americans was just bull#### lies to get elected, right?

100% and they all bit.  

[Cowboysfan8 8,008]

Just now, GoBirds said:

On January 3 Biden promised if you voted for his guys checks would “go out immediately “. Your blind defense of him not delivering seems misguided to me. 
 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90607300/but-seriously-where-are-the-stimulus-checks-joe

 

I’m sure there are some gymnastics to give him a pass here but he failed, sorry. 

Exactly 

[fatguyinalittlecoat 12,157]

14 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

On January 3 Biden promised if you voted for his guys checks would “go out immediately “. Your blind defense of him not delivering seems misguided to me. 
 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90607300/but-seriously-where-are-the-stimulus-checks-joe

 

I’m sure there are some gymnastics to give him a pass here but he failed, sorry. 

Biden wasn't even President yet on January 3.  Was your understanding of "immediately" that the checks would go out while Trump was still in the White House?  Two months after inauguration day seems pretty fast to me in comparison to other major legislation.  Obamacare was negotiated for like 8 months or something and Republicans are always saying that Democrats rushed it through.

[FairWarning 1,173]

7 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Biden wasn't even President yet on January 3.  Was your understanding of "immediately" that the checks would go out while Trump was still in the White House?  Two months after inauguration day seems pretty fast to me in comparison to other major legislation.  Obamacare was negotiated for like 8 months or something and Republicans are always saying that Democrats rushed it through.

I would have expected closer to January 6 than March 6, yes.  He couldn’t sign that stoppage of the keystone pipeline fast enough though.

[fatguyinalittlecoat 12,157]

Just now, FairWarning said:

I would have expected closer to January 6 than March 6, yes.  He couldn’t sign that stoppage of the keystone pipeline fast enough though.

That was an executive order.  It's easy to do that in a day.  Legislation is a whole different animal.

[FairWarning 1,173]

Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

That was an executive order.  It's easy to do that in a day.  Legislation is a whole different animal.

Right, but since they control the house and senate, it would have been a mere formality and the top priority. 

[knowledge dropper 6,808]

I’m glad Republicans voted against $1 trillion in non-COVID spending in the COVID relief bill. 
 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/kennedy-biden-covid-relief-bill-orgy-of-pork

[The Commish 14,126]

11 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

One more time

 The Dems ran on “People need this $ now!!!”

”vote for us!!! , WE WILL GET YOU THE MONEY YOU SO BADLY NEED IMMEDIATELY!!!”

joe the savior to Georgia— “ VOTE BLUE AND CHECKS WILL GO OUT IMMEDIATELY “

I guess he doesn’t know the definition of immediately?

 

why aren’t they just putting up a bill that is cash for hungry people right now. Just the checks , nothing else? You know....like they promised?

In this day and age of the PSF, I can't tell if this is rhetorical or not.  So on the off chance that it isn't, the answer to this question is the same as when the GOP acted the same way...because "sides".  The only thing remotely interesting about this whole thing is watching the "sides" flip their stories around as good minions do.  If it weren't so pathetic, it'd be funny...two sides of the same coin can't seem to gather the self awareness to understand how foolish they look.  They actually think they are making GOOD, original arguments that they weren't arguing AGAINST just a few weeks ago  

[Cowboysfan8 8,008]

1 minute ago, The Commish said:

In this day and age of the PSF, I can't tell if this is rhetorical or not.  So on the off chance that it isn't, the answer to this question is the same as when the GOP acted the same way...because "sides".  The only thing remotely interesting about this whole thing is watching the "sides" flip their stories around as good minions do.  If it weren't so pathetic, it'd be funny...two sides of the same coin can't seem to gather the self awareness to understand how foolish they look.  They actually think they are making GOOD, original arguments that they weren't arguing AGAINST just a few weeks ago  

The only point I try to make is that they all suck 🤷‍♂️

Its annoying to watch the Dems on this board make excuses for “their side” time after time after time 

“They all said if you vote for us the checks will be immediate....we know you’re hurting!!!!”

”Its been 3 months, where are the checks”

”Well, they’ll get it taken care of be patient....”

 

[Mile High 5,309]

32 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Biden wasn't even President yet on January 3.  Was your understanding of "immediately" that the checks would go out while Trump was still in the White House?  Two months after inauguration day seems pretty fast to me in comparison to other major legislation.  Obamacare was negotiated for like 8 months or something and Republicans are always saying that Democrats rushed it through.

The two senators from Gerorga weren't sworn in until January 19th so let's start the clock from there.

[FairWarning 1,173]

7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

In this day and age of the PSF, I can't tell if this is rhetorical or not.  So on the off chance that it isn't, the answer to this question is the same as when the GOP acted the same way...because "sides".  The only thing remotely interesting about this whole thing is watching the "sides" flip their stories around as good minions do.  If it weren't so pathetic, it'd be funny...two sides of the same coin can't seem to gather the self awareness to understand how foolish they look.  They actually think they are making GOOD, original arguments that they weren't arguing AGAINST just a few weeks ago  

the R’s are guilty of doing the same thing, and the D’s would call them out also.  
 

what is frustrating is this is from a month ago,and still nothing - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/02/03/house-coronavirus-relief-budget-bill/%3foutputType=amp

[The Commish 14,126]

18 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

The only point I try to make is that they all suck 🤷‍♂️

Its annoying to watch the Dems on this board make excuses for “their side” time after time after time 

“They all said if you vote for us the checks will be immediate....we know you’re hurting!!!!”

”Its been 3 months, where are the checks”

”Well, they’ll get it taken care of be patient....”

 

It's annoying to watch the Trumpers do the same...it's all annoying.  They aren't meaningfully different from one another.  However, it's absurd to NOT understand how government works and try to "gotcha" someone on their hyperbole either.  That happens all the time.  Sorry, but the "where are the checks you promised immediately!!!!!" guys aren't different from the "Trump's a complete failure since he didn't get a wall built across the entire southern border" guys.  These are stupid arguments/criticisms all around IMO   

Edited March 5 by The Commish

[The Commish 14,126]

7 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

the R’s are guilty of doing the same thing, and the D’s would call them out also.  
 

what is frustrating is this is from a month ago,and still nothing - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/02/03/house-coronavirus-relief-budget-bill/%3foutputType=amp

I share in the frustration of them not following through on promises, though the length of time isn't really a criteria for me personally.  We all know trying to get something through Congress is like trying to suck a watermelon through a garden hose.  The only time this is NOT true is if one party holds a super majority and I'm not sure the last time that happened.  This "call them out" stuff is just dumb when they're all sitting in the same boat going to the same place just pissing and moaning about who's turn it is to row.  They're all lazy dopes as are those who support them IMO.

[Mile High 5,309]

38 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

I’m glad Republicans voted against $1 trillion in non-COVID spending in the COVID relief bill. 
 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/kennedy-biden-covid-relief-bill-orgy-of-pork

It's going to be awesome the next 2 years watching the Democrats pass legislation and the Republicans crying about it.

Edited March 5 by Mile High

[GoBirds 10,453]

49 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Biden wasn't even President yet on January 3.  Was your understanding of "immediately" that the checks would go out while Trump was still in the White House?  Two months after inauguration day seems pretty fast to me in comparison to other major legislation.  Obamacare was negotiated for like 8 months or something and Republicans are always saying that Democrats rushed it through.

Yeah nice spin. We were in the middle of a pandemic, not waiting for an empty health care promise. Most people will have their shots before their checks, complete failure trying to force the pork through instead of doing what’s right. 

[timschochet 35,250]

I’m not quite getting the argument that two months in isn’t immediate enough, therefore Biden broke his promise and Democrats are all liars? Seems a little weak. 

If memory serves there is a deadline in April in which unemployment runs out. The goal was always to get this passed prior to that date. 

[Cowboysfan8 8,008]

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I’m not quite getting the argument that two months in isn’t immediate enough, therefore Biden broke his promise and Democrats are all liars? Seems a little weak. 

If memory serves there is a deadline in April in which unemployment runs out. The goal was always to get this passed prior to that date. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/01/04/bidens-final-pitch-to-georgia-vote-blue-and-2000-checks-will-go-out-the-door-immediately/amp/
 

[timschochet 35,250]

3 minutes ago, Mile High said:

It's going to be awesome the next 2 years watching the Democrats pass legislation 

This is pretty much the last significant Bill they pass unless they do away with the filibuster. And that’s a pretty big if at this point. 

[timschochet 35,250]

Just now, Cowboysfan8 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/01/04/bidens-final-pitch-to-georgia-vote-blue-and-2000-checks-will-go-out-the-door-immediately/amp/
 

Yeah it’s weak. In political terms 2-3 months is pretty immediate. 

[dawgtrails 1,158]

12 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Yeah nice spin. We were in the middle of a pandemic, not waiting for an empty health care promise. Most people will have their shots before their checks, complete failure trying to force the pork through instead of doing what’s right. 

We still are in the middle of a pandemic

[joffer 12,491]

52 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Right, but since they control the house and senate, it would have been a mere formality and the top priority. 

you know it's not that easy.

[FairWarning 1,173]

10 minutes ago, joffer said:

you know it's not that easy.

Because it’s not that important to them after the election.

[Stoneworker 281]

19 minutes ago, timschochet said:

This is pretty much the last significant Bill they pass unless they do away with the filibuster. And that’s a pretty big if at this point. 

This. There's a huge difference between spending money and actual "legislation."

[joffer 12,491]

1 minute ago, FairWarning said:

Because it’s not that important to them after the election.

apparently i was wrong.  you don't know its not that easy.

[Stoneworker 281]

13 minutes ago, joffer said:

you know it's not that easy.

To be fair, Democrats prioritized an impeachment process they knew would fail over immediate pandemic relief.

That's a consciously chosen delay.

Edited March 5 by Stoneworker

[sho nuff 17,360]

Just now, Stoneworker said:

To be fair, Democrats prioritized an impeachment process they knew would fail over immediate pandemic relief.

That's a consciously chosen delay.

Well...not quite.  It should have been done prior to the inauguration...GOP Mitch decided to not let it.  The House had already acted.

And seems other things took priority as well in the fall (when this really should have been done....when legislation was pushed to increase the checks in the past.  GOP did not agree with that either.  

Fact is...there is a back and forth of a little obstruction that goes on to move the timing.  I believe the house also acted on this prior to the week of impeachment (and not like things could not be discussed then in committee either).

Our congress is broken.  Seems the days of bills being passed and reconciled have been replaced with bickering in the media.

[Stoneworker 281]

1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

Well...not quite.  It should have been done prior to the inauguration...GOP Mitch decided to not let it.  The House had already acted.

And seems other things took priority as well in the fall (when this really should have been done....when legislation was pushed to increase the checks in the past.  GOP did not agree with that either.  

Fact is...there is a back and forth of a little obstruction that goes on to move the timing.  I believe the house also acted on this prior to the week of impeachment (and not like things could not be discussed then in committee either).

Our congress is broken.  Seems the days of bills being passed and reconciled have been replaced with bickering in the media.

I'm not debating the merits of that choice, nor offering an editorial. Just sticking to the facts. Congress chooses their agenda and the priority of that agenda. They consciously prioritized impeachment process higher than pandemic relief to the citizens. 

[The Commish 14,126]

33 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’m not quite getting the argument that two months in isn’t immediate enough, therefore Biden broke his promise and Democrats are all liars? Seems a little weak. 

If memory serves there is a deadline in April in which unemployment runs out. The goal was always to get this passed prior to that date. 

It's only weak if people bagging on this aren't also bagging on "20 million vaccines administered by the end of December"....oh...yeah, I guess you have a point.  The selectiveness on application of standards is blatantly obvious.  The only other thing more bizarre in this line of thinking is saying 1.5 million doses of vaccine in a month is "the same trajectory" as 1 million doses a day.

[fatguyinalittlecoat 12,157]

1 minute ago, Stoneworker said:

I'm not debating the merits of that choice, nor offering an editorial. Just sticking to the facts. Congress chooses their agenda and the priority of that agenda. They consciously prioritized impeachment process higher than pandemic relief to the citizens. 

I don’t know that it’s fair to say they prioritized impeachment over stimulus  because both were going on the same time.  I guess you can say they didn’t entirely prioritize the stimulus over everything else.  If they had, how much earlier do you believe the checks would have gone out?

For what it’s worth, Mitch McConnell said this morning that the bill was bad because it was being rushed through too fast.  So the talking points don’t seem to have made their way to everyone.

[Mile High 5,309]

6 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

I'm not debating the merits of that choice, nor offering an editorial. Just sticking to the facts. Congress chooses their agenda and the priority of that agenda. They consciously prioritized impeachment process higher than pandemic relief to the citizens. 

House passed a bill on December 28 for getting checks to people.  The president said he would sign it. Why did the Senate never vote on that bill?

[Stoneworker 281]

4 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I don’t know that it’s fair to say they prioritized impeachment over stimulus  because both were going on the same time.  I guess you can say they didn’t entirely prioritize the stimulus over everything else.  If they had, how much earlier do you believe the checks would have gone out?

For what it’s worth, Mitch McConnell said this morning that the bill was bad because it was being rushed through too fast.  So the talking points don’t seem to have made their way to everyone.

Yes. It is very fair to say they prioritized impeachment over stimulus.

How much earlier? Doesn't matter.

If someone isn't acting immediately on a "crisis," then de facto it is not an actual crisis.

[Stoneworker 281]

6 minutes ago, Mile High said:

House passed a bill on December 28 for getting checks to people.  The president said he would sign it. Why did the Senate never vote on that bill?

Whataboutism at its finest. One misguided choice has nothing to do with the other.

[fatguyinalittlecoat 12,157]

Just now, Stoneworker said:

Yes. It is very fair to say they prioritized impeachment over stimulus.

How much earlier? Doesn't matter.

If someone isn't acting immediately on a "crisis," then de facto it is not an actual crisis.

What if there are two crises?

[Stoneworker 281]

Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What if there are two crises?

Triage.

[jm192 2,067]

1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What if there are two crises?

Crisis 1:  Trump is deplorable and we want to make sure he never runs again.  If we don't do this he may run again in 4 years.  

Crisis 2:  People can't pay their bills and may not have food next week.  

Then it's WHY WON'T REPUBLICANS VOTE TO HELP AMERICANS?!?!?!

[Mile High 5,309]

1 minute ago, Stoneworker said:

Whataboutism at its finest. One misguided choice has nothing to do with the other.

In a divided country everything one side does has everything to do with what the other side does.

[Cowboysfan8 8,008]

1 minute ago, jm192 said:

Crisis 1:  Trump is deplorable and we want to make sure he never runs again.  If we don't do this he may run again in 4 years.  

Crisis 2:  People can't pay their bills and may not have food next week.  

Then it's WHY WON'T REPUBLICANS VOTE TO HELP AMERICANS?!?!?!

Priorities 

[jm192 2,067]

I think it would be fantastic if we could stop framing everything as "Why is your side terrible?"

Trump's out of office and 2021 was going to be the year of unity and healing.  It's February and Tim's posted his 2nd or 3rd "Why won't Republicans do the right thing" thread.  

We're citing polls saying people want COVID relief and REJECTING arguments that the Republicans are explicitly stating.  "Nope, can't be the pork."  

[fatguyinalittlecoat 12,157]

2 minutes ago, jm192 said:

Crisis 1:  Trump is deplorable and we want to make sure he never runs again.  If we don't do this he may run again in 4 years.  

I don’t think this is how most Democrats would characterize it.  

[GoBirds 10,453]

45 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

We still are in the middle of a pandemic

Incorrect, we are clearly coming out of it. 

[jm192 2,067]

Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I don’t think this is how most Democrats would characterize it.  

Characterize it however you want.  

Impeachment couldn't have been done in a few months?  

COVID relief is so direly needed--otherwise why is it a big deal the Republicans won't just vote for it regardless of what else is in it---but we HAD to do impeachment ASAP.

[Rich Conway 3,968]

Isn't there a requirement somewhere that impeachment proceedings take precedence over other business in the Senate?  I don't know, but vaguely remember reading this before the ACB confirmation hearings.

[Stoneworker 281]

5 minutes ago, Mile High said:

In a divided country everything one side does has everything to do with what the other side does.

These are tangents. Democrats (and Democrats only) prioritized impeachment over pandemic relief. End of story.

FWIW, I am on record in other threads advocating censure over impeachment for the very reason of moving on to higher priorities for the country...i.e. vaccinations and economic recovery.

[The Commish 14,126]

6 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I think it would be fantastic if we could stop framing everything as "Why is your side terrible?"

Trump's out of office and 2021 was going to be the year of unity and healing.  It's February and Tim's posted his 2nd or 3rd "Why won't Republicans do the right thing" thread.  

We're citing polls saying people want COVID relief and REJECTING arguments that the Republicans are explicitly stating.  "Nope, can't be the pork."  

I'm not even sure we're doing this are we?  I think it's more not about the sides, but the individuals.  "Why are you concerned about this now when you didn't seem to be bothered by it before?"  Maybe that's just me since I know politicians are going to be political.  My wonder is why people put up with that.  It's never made sense to me.

This topic is the perfect illustration of that specific problem.  Just two months ago, the Dems proposed $2K only bill that the Senate didn't bring to the floor.  Many, rightfully IMO, said the move by McConnell was complete ####.  Now, the Dems are doing their dog and pony and those that were silent or defending McConnell are upset like those who were calling McConnell's move complete ####.  And those who were upset with McConnell are now defending the Dem's version of the same.  It's one of the most ###### up things I've seen...It's blatantly pathetic and has nothing to do with the politicians themselves rather those who support them and their actions.

[Mile High 5,309]

6 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

Democrats (and Democrats only) prioritized impeachment over pandemic relief. End of story.

The Democratic house passed the Cashact on December 28th. The impeachment vote by the house was on January 13th. The Democrats didnt even take control of the Senate until January 19th.

[timschochet 35,250]

16 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I think it would be fantastic if we could stop framing everything as "Why is your side terrible?"

Trump's out of office and 2021 was going to be the year of unity and healing.  It's February and Tim's posted his 2nd or 3rd "Why won't Republicans do the right thing" thread.  

We're citing polls saying people want COVID relief and REJECTING arguments that the Republicans are explicitly stating.  "Nope, can't be the pork."  

This is a false interpretation of the OP. 
I never wrote “why won’t Republicans do the right thing?” or “why won’t Republicans help Americans?” I don’t even think of such terms. My question was not an ethical one; it was a political question. With so much of the public in favor of the bill I was surprised that not a single Republican, not even the supposed moderates, were joining the Democrats on what would clearly be a popular move and which is going to pass anyhow. That was my point, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. 

[Stoneworker 281]

1 minute ago, Mile High said:

The Democratic house passed the Cashact on December 28th. The impeachment vote by the house was on January 13th. The Democrats didnt even take control of the Senate until January 19th.

Look upthread. I'm on record saying it was a poor decision by the then-Republican controlled Senate to deny the $2K stimulus payments.

Again. Poor decisions by the GOP in December 2020 have squat to do with current decisions and priorities being made by the Democrats in Spring 2021.

[Mile High 5,309]

4 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

Look upthread. I'm on record saying it was a poor decision by the then-Republican controlled Senate to deny the $2K stimulus payments.

Again. Poor decisions by the GOP in December 2020 have squat to do with current decisions and priorities being made by the Democrats in Spring 2021.

So you didn't say?

Democrats (and Democrats only) prioritized impeachment over pandemic relief. End of story.