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The Covid Relief Bill


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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

If I don’t support something I voice my opinion.  If I’m silent then I’m generally accepting thus silence is acceptance.  So in your opinion , everyone on this board has come out and denounce blm, anifia etc? 

I rail on the different sources a bit, but posts like yours also reinforce that even when we are looking at and reading the same thread we have a different opinion of this place and what the majority of opinions are.  

I understand the difference now if you truly go about it the way you said - that silence is support.  IMO that's a dangerous road to do down and makes a lot of assumptions about what people are thinking.  

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9 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I rail on the different sources a bit, but posts like yours also reinforce that even when we are looking at and reading the same thread we have a different opinion of this place and what the majority of opinions are.  

I understand the difference now if you truly go about it the way you said - that silence is support.  IMO that's a dangerous road to do down and makes a lot of assumptions about what people are thinking.  

Posters have posted on here for years that not speaking out against trump daily makes you a trumper

 But of course it’s all different now

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10 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I rail on the different sources a bit, but posts like yours also reinforce that even when we are looking at and reading the same thread we have a different opinion of this place and what the majority of opinions are.  

I understand the difference now if you truly go about it the way you said - that silence is support.  IMO that's a dangerous road to do down and makes a lot of assumptions about what people are thinking.  

Isn’t that what’s being preach now about racial injustices? That everyone needs to stand up and support and that silence means you’re complicit...

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An exhausted Senate narrowly approved a $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief bill as President Biden and his Democratic allies notched a victory they called crucial for hoisting the country out of the pandemic and economic doldrums. The vote was 50-49.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-ap-top-news-legislation-coronavirus-pandemic-joe-manchin-298ad8c447e9a121ece9529221e83136?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

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2 minutes ago, stlrams said:

Isn’t that what’s being preach now about racial injustices? That everyone needs to stand up and support and that silence means you’re complicit...

Here or by some people?  Are you implying that people here are saying that?

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2 hours ago, stlrams said:

If I don’t support something I voice my opinion.  If I’m silent then I’m generally accepting thus silence is acceptance.  So in your opinion , everyone on this board has come out and denounce blm, anifia etc? 

I think this is a dangerous road.  

After the George Floyd incident, people were saying you either speak out against racism or you're racist.  You don't have to say anything racist or behave in a racist manner--simply failure to do something now makes you a racist.  I don't think that's an accurate representation of what's in someone's heart.  

If failure to speak out against racism doesn't make you racist--does failure to speak out against Biden's immigration policy make you for it?  Hardly.

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Here or by some people?  Are you implying that people here are saying that?

I think we see it nationwide in the news and especially on Twitter.  And people just assume that that's the case on this board as well, when it's often not.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I changed the title to have an overall discussion. I think the Republicans have made a huge mistake not turning this into a bipartisan effort but that’s on them. This is a huge legislative accomplishment for Biden. 
It’s also, sadly, probably his last legislative accomplishment, at least for two years, unless he can somehow convince Manchin and Sinema to do away with the filibuster. The Republicans should go in with Biden on an infrastructure deal but I don’t expect they will. 
 

As it looks now, the Republicans are going to spend the next two years complaining about cancel culture, a stolen election, Latino immigrants, and a slippery slope towards communism, and then get shellacked for it in 2022. Hopefully after the loss they’ll reconsider this terrible strategy. 

What parts do you think they should have been bi-partisan with?  What parts of the bill were for the right?

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Just now, jm192 said:

I think we see it nationwide in the news and especially on Twitter.  And people just assume that that's the case on this board as well, when it's often not.

I know :deadhorse:, but this is where the disconnect between myself and what I assume stlrams is getting at (he can correct me if wrong here).    We see this crap amplified on some news and social media.    Just because you see it retweeted 2000 times, doesn't mean that 2000 feel that way and agree with it, but it makes it look like that idea is out there more than the handful of people that probably believe that.  

I am confident that there isn't anybody I've come in contact with around these threads that would say that if you don't speak out against racism that you are racist.  :shrug: 

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3 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I think this is a dangerous road.  

After the George Floyd incident, people were saying you either speak out against racism or you're racist.  You don't have to say anything racist or behave in a racist manner--simply failure to do something now makes you a racist.  I don't think that's an accurate representation of what's in someone's heart.  

If failure to speak out against racism doesn't make you racist--does failure to speak out against Biden's immigration policy make you for it?  Hardly.

There was a whole lotta of the Floyd or you’re a racist schict all over social media.  Actually that crap started with Obama voters - either Obama or you’re a racist. 

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1 minute ago, FairWarning said:

There was a whole lotta of the Floyd or you’re a racist schict all over social media.  Actually that crap started with Obama voters - either Obama or you’re a racist. 

Id say it goes back to "with us or against us" mentality during Bush.  If you didn't support war..."why do you hate America".

 

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I know :deadhorse:, but this is where the disconnect between myself and what I assume stlrams is getting at (he can correct me if wrong here).    We see this crap amplified on some news and social media.    Just because you see it retweeted 2000 times, doesn't mean that 2000 feel that way and agree with it, but it makes it look like that idea is out there more than the handful of people that probably believe that.  

I am confident that there isn't anybody I've come in contact with around these threads that would say that if you don't speak out against racism that you are racist.  :shrug: 

I think you're absolutely right.  

I think what happens--we see that stuff on the media, we see it on Twitter (Man Twitter is the worst of the worst)--and then you come here.  Most of the people that post here are left of center.  And you mistakenly assume that the news/Twitter version is how all people on the left must feel.  

I struggled with it for a while when I first got here.  

I assume it happens on the other side as well.  People assume if you're a conservative then you support all of Trump's lunacy.  And it's often not the case.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Id say it goes back to "with us or against us" mentality during Bush.  If you didn't support war..."why do you hate America".

 

I'm not sure when it started.  But I whole heartedly believe it's exploded due to social media.  Prior to twitter, those voices were quiet and lonely individual voices.  Now they find everyone else saying it and it's amplified to the point we believe it's a large pervasive belief.  I enjoy aspects of Twitter, but man, it drives the fringe together.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Id say it goes back to "with us or against us" mentality during Bush.  If you didn't support war..."why do you hate America".

 

I don’t remember the Bush stuff, but you may be right.  I’m in a strong R area, probably why i never noticed that.  

We had a family friend who passed away year about this time.  The daughter was having a get together in June in memory of him.  She was a big BLM organizer here (she’s a social worker in a rough area).  She ends up posting a lot of the Floyd or you’re a racist stuff on FB.  The day of the get together, she then tells everyone if they can’t leave their white privileged at her door, don’t show.  

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18 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Here or by some people?  Are you implying that people here are saying that?

Every where.  You have to come out or you’re a racist. 

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4 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I think you're absolutely right.  

I think what happens--we see that stuff on the media, we see it on Twitter (Man Twitter is the worst of the worst)--and then you come here.  Most of the people that post here are left of center.  And you mistakenly assume that the news/Twitter version is how all people on the left must feel.  

I struggled with it for a while when I first got here.  

I assume it happens on the other side as well.  People assume if you're a conservative then you support all of Trump's lunacy.  And it's often not the case.

I took a lot of crap on a couple of boards because I left the president blank, like I was the reason he didn’t win Michigan.

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1 minute ago, stlrams said:

Every where.  You have to come out or you’re a racist. 

Yup, and this is a huge disconnect.  A big reason healing can't happen like was discussed in Joe's thread.  

I don't know where to begin with people who would believe that a good portion of one side believes this.  

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18 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I think this is a dangerous road.  

After the George Floyd incident, people were saying you either speak out against racism or you're racist.  You don't have to say anything racist or behave in a racist manner--simply failure to do something now makes you a racist.  I don't think that's an accurate representation of what's in someone's heart.  

If failure to speak out against racism doesn't make you racist--does failure to speak out against Biden's immigration policy make you for it?  Hardly.

I agree but per sho nuff everyone here doesn’t support blm, antifa etc when we all know isn’t true.  

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16 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

What parts do you think they should have been bi-partisan with?  What parts of the bill were for the right?

I think they should have said “there’s a lot we don’t like about the bill but it’s necessary overall so let’s do it.”, which is exactly what they said about the earlier bill. I don’t think it would have cost them politically at all and it would have helped them in the coming election cycle. 
My firm opinion is that they did not oppose this bill due to any real issue concerns (given the previous bill that would be highly hypocritical) but because they are still attempting to appease the Trumpist, extremist elements of the base that want them to oppose anything and everything that Democrats are for. And that is a huge mistake IMO. 

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Just now, stlrams said:

I agree but per sho nuff everyone here doesn’t support blm, antifa etc when we all know isn’t true.  

My pulse of the board is there is the support of the general idea behind blm and the peaceful protests, but there has been threads that indicate even those in support of that don't agree with everything from them and think they should have come out against the violence.    Never seen support for antifa.  :shrug:

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think they should have said “there’s a lot we don’t like about the bill but it’s necessary overall so let’s do it.”, which is exactly what they said about the earlier bill. I don’t think it would have cost them politically at all and it would have helped them in the coming election cycle. 
My firm opinion is that they did not oppose this bill due to any real issue concerns (given the previous bill that would be highly hypocritical) but because they are still attempting to appease the Trumpist, extremist elements of the base that want them to oppose anything and everything that Democrats are for. And that is a huge mistake IMO. 

Did Pelosi and Schumer employ that strategy in the last four years, just take what the R's were serving?

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15 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think they should have said “there’s a lot we don’t like about the bill but it’s necessary overall so let’s do it.”, which is exactly what they said about the earlier bill. I don’t think it would have cost them politically at all and it would have helped them in the coming election cycle. 
My firm opinion is that they did not oppose this bill due to any real issue concerns (given the previous bill that would be highly hypocritical) but because they are still attempting to appease the Trumpist, extremist elements of the base that want them to oppose anything and everything that Democrats are for. And that is a huge mistake IMO. 

Except:  Every thread is "a huge mistake" by Republicans, and they're going to pay for it.  

I remember when the first impeachment was going to bury the Republican party.  6 months later no one was talking about it.  If I had a dime for everytime you've posted how bad THIS will be for the GOP, I'd be eligible for the wealth tax.

It's entirely possible to say "there's a lot we don't like about this bill, so let's work to take those things out, and pass what matters."  

I'm not sure why you're so insistent they just needed to bend over backwards and smile and nod to everything the Dems proposed.  

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9 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Did Pelosi and Schumer employ that strategy in the last four years, just take what the R's were serving?

No of course not. But it’s rare that any of those bills was something that fit with democratic ideology. 
I was expecting, for 4 years, for Trump to propose an infrastructure bill. I still don’t know why he didn’t. Had he done so, and had the Dems rejected it, they would have made the same mistake I believe the Republicans are making now. 

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7 minutes ago, jm192 said:

Except:  Every thread is "a huge mistake" by Republicans, and they're going to pay for it.  

I remember when the first impeachment was going to bury the Republican party.  6 months later no one was talking about it.  If I had a dime for everytime you've posted how bad THIS will be for the GOP, I'd be eligible for the wealth tax.

It's entirely possible to say "there's a lot we don't like about this bill, so let's work to take those things out, and pass what matters."  

I'm not sure why you're so insistent they just needed to bend over backwards and smile and nod to everything the Dems proposed.  

You may be confusing me with someone else. 
 

Sometimes the Republicans make huge mistakes- I think they are now. They don’t always make mistakes. When they 100% opposed the Affordable Care Act, that was a very smart move that won them the next 3 elections. Calling it “Obamacare” turned out to be brilliant. What they’re doing now is stupid. 

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

No of course not. But it’s rare that any of those bills was something that fit with democratic ideology. 
I was expecting, for 4 years, for Trump to propose an infrastructure bill. I still don’t know why he didn’t. Had he done so, and had the Dems rejected it, they would have made the same mistake I believe the Republicans are making now. 

Infrastructure bills are something the D's will pass before the R's.  

My brother is laughing to the bank, he just got a free $5800 for spring break.  

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2 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

To put back into the economy.

They don't need it.  Too bad the government is holding back all of this money instead of putting it into the economy.  

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50 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You may be confusing me with someone else. 
 

Sometimes the Republicans make huge mistakes- I think they are now. They don’t always make mistakes. When they 100% opposed the Affordable Care Act, that was a very smart move that won them the next 3 elections. Calling it “Obamacare” turned out to be brilliant. What they’re doing now is stupid. 

I think to do that you would have to assume a lot about the repercussions of all this spending and stimulus.  I admit I don't know for sure either way.  But we are trying to balance enough stimulus to avoid a downturn with pumping so much stimulus into the economy that inflation appears in a meaningful way again.  I know we haven't seen meaningful inflation in a long time and people can forget how that feels and the voting sentiment that follows.  Maybe this will work out, maybe it won't.  The action on the 10 year bond shows there's some uncertainty in the markets as well.  

From a purely political standpoint, this was always going to be Biden's bill.  The R's don't have the votes to stop it, change it, do anything.  If they all voted for it and it was a success, it would still be Biden's bill.  I think they are making the only play they have here and it may well turn out to be good for the D's long term, but I think the R's were in a box on this either way.  Their only real play is to take the other side so that if this goes bad with inflation, etc. that they stand to benefit.

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1 hour ago, Apple Jack said:

To put back into the economy.

 

58 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Your brother isn't going to spend that money? 

🤷🏽‍♂️I can't speak for anyone else but my stimulus checks go into investments and charity. The charity is good of course, but many of us aren't spending more just because the government gave us money. 

Of course you could argue that the trader on the other end (the side selling the shares) may spend the money, but I don't think that's the intention.

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17 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

 

🤷🏽‍♂️I can't speak for anyone else but my stimulus checks go into investments and charity. The charity is good of course, but many of us aren't spending more just because the government gave us money. 

Of course you could argue that the trader on the other end (the side selling the shares) may spend the money, but I don't think that's the intention.

I am sure we will get all sorts of answers.  FBGs are notoriously well off, so I doubt many needed it.  Mostly ours went to a few local businesses as we got a couple things we probably wouldn't have otherwise - new couch, etc.  Since we had a little extra we ate out more (ok, did take out/delivery) - again, spreading around to local businesses. 

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2 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Infrastructure bills are something the D's will pass before the R's.  

My brother is laughing to the bank, he just got a free $5800 for spring break.  

I'd imagine the businesses he's going to spend the money at are happy that he got 5800 to spend....

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3 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

My pulse of the board is there is the support of the general idea behind blm and the peaceful protests, but there has been threads that indicate even those in support of that don't agree with everything from them and think they should have come out against the violence.    Never seen support for antifa.  :shrug:

I think the antifa support was more to do with the chaos they created while trump was prez.  Again this was just my perspective.  

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Your brother isn't going to spend that money? 

I mean the government didn't spent all of the last stimilus money, and much of this isn't getting spent right away either.  

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36 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

I'd imagine the businesses he's going to spend the money at are happy that he got 5800 to spend....

He was taking the family to Arizona for spring break anyway.  

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4 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

My pulse of the board is there is the support of the general idea behind blm and the peaceful protests, but there has been threads that indicate even those in support of that don't agree with everything from them and think they should have come out against the violence.    Never seen support for antifa.  :shrug:

Exactly 

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am sure we will get all sorts of answers.  FBGs are notoriously well off, so I doubt many needed it.  Mostly ours went to a few local businesses as we got a couple things we probably wouldn't have otherwise - new couch, etc.  Since we had a little extra we ate out more (ok, did take out/delivery) - again, spreading around to local businesses. 

I assumed I was the only one here getting a check. 

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5 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Did Pelosi and Schumer employ that strategy in the last four years, just take what the R's were serving?

nah, Pelosi ripped up the state of the union speech on national TV.

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On 3/5/2021 at 9:31 AM, timschochet said:

I’m not quite getting the argument that two months in isn’t immediate enough, therefore Biden broke his promise and Democrats are all liars? Seems a little weak. 

If memory serves there is a deadline in April in which unemployment runs out. The goal was always to get this passed prior to that date. 

March 14, only lemmings and those arguing in bad faith expected this to pass before then. 

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On 3/6/2021 at 1:26 PM, jm192 said:

I'm not sure when it started.  But I whole heartedly believe it's exploded due to social media.  Prior to twitter, those voices were quiet and lonely individual voices.  Now they find everyone else saying it and it's amplified to the point we believe it's a large pervasive belief.  I enjoy aspects of Twitter, but man, it drives the fringe together.

I'm comfortable saying it pretty much started with 9/11.  The things some of us were called because we thought it was stupid to go into Iraq or because we didn't buy into the notion that GWB was the mastermind of the whole thing were pretty stark and shocking.  I don't do a ton of social media outside of facebook that is filled with stupid dad memes, random dude vlogs, some sharing of photos with friends etc.  I'm pretty diligent about cleaning out all the stuff they collect on me monthly and flat out reject all the ads from different groups and national news organizations. 

Regardless, it's up to us to remember that social media are the TOOLS.  We as individuals still drive our experiences.  That doesn't seem to be going well either if this place is any indication.  Everything from "do as I say, not as I do" to useless vague terms like "the left" or "the right" to flat out using terms/words in a way that no one else does is just nonsensical to me.  It DOES help weed out those who to engage with IMO.  I just wish we did a better job of it.

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what were the voting counts on the first two bills ? 

wasn't the first two bi-artisan and passed with all Dems and Rep's voting in favor ?

but this one was party lines - the Democrats forced it through with the numbers - this is all on them 

 

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Any lawyerguys want to help me out? 

Long story short:

In 2019, my AGI was under the limit.

In 2020, my AGI is OVER the limit.

Like an idiot I filed, because I heard that it's important to file early this year and because literally the day after I filed the Senate jacked with the earnings.  Am I screwed from getting the stimulus?  

Here's the senate version of the bill 

https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/American Rescue Plan Act SENATE.pdf

If you go down to page 350, that's where it starts.  The section I can't figure out starts on page 352 and continues onto page 353.  Basically, will they take the 2019 OR 2020 return, or am I just screwed merely because I filed?

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