Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Gov. Abbott opens TX. MS, CT, WV, AZ & KS join. Now GOP opens Georgia!


Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Its a red area/blue area here.  

I'm being earnest when I say I don't necessarily know what you mean. Not trying to get on you or anything, but do you mind unpacking that?

Are you in a red area given your locales size but in a blue area because of Michigan?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 420
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I get what you're saying, but CT is way ahead of most on this, is a small state that tracked and traced pretty effectively, and is indeed keeping restrictions and requirements intact. I have a ha

The fact that well over a year later masks wearing is still political is mind numbingly stupid.

It is absolutely amazing to me how the American narrative on covid, opening up, masks and other safety precautions is the exact opposite of most every other western democratic society.  It is not surp

15 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'm being earnest when I say I don't necessarily know what you mean. Not trying to get on you or anything, but do you mind unpacking that?

Are you in a red area given your locales size but in a blue area because of Michigan?

It's basically a city/country thing.  Most every county here is red, but the cities vote D.  It is worse when you are on the border of a red area from another state.  My area is very service/gig oriented.  Businesses were fined heavy for not complying - so 2nd home owners from chicago would just call out of state to have work done.  Our numbers were never that bad compared to the rest of the state.  Now the next county over (very red), people rarely wore masks, and said it was their right.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

It's basically a city/country thing.  Most every county here is red, but the cities vote D.  It is worse when you are on the border of a red area from another state.  My area is very service/gig oriented.  Businesses were fined heavy for not complying - so 2nd home owners from chicago would just call out of state to have work done.  Our numbers were never that bad compared to the rest of the state.  Now the next county over (very red), people rarely wore masks, and said it was their right.

I can see where it would be a urban/rural thing, if I understand you correctly. That seems like the story of most of America, really. The further away from the cities you get, the more red it gets. It's sad that being in a red area associates one with certain modes of thought and behaviors and sad that being blue does, too. One would hope that we're more citizen/America than red/blue, but that doesn't seem to really be the case when it comes to some pretty fundamental things. I didn't quite follow the 2nd homeowner bit about compliance, though. I'm looking at a map and SW Michigan is indeed by Indiana and Chicago, so I guess that's what you mean. People in your area just called the out-of-state Indiana folks, I'm assuming.

But yeah, it is a city/country thing. Ever see when Joe posts that Cracked map of voters for people that can't figure out why anybody would have voted for Trump in 2016? I'll provide a link and you can click on it if you want. Anyway, the map of America looks like a huge landmass of red and some seas of blue.  Scroll down until you get to the map of America and what it really looks like, using the 2012 election.

https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I can see where it would be a urban/rural thing, if I understand you correctly. That seems like the story of most of America, really. The further away from the cities you get, the more red it gets. It's sad that being in a red area associates one with certain modes of thought and behaviors and sad that being blue does, too. One would hope that we're more citizen/America than red/blue, but that doesn't seem to really be the case when it comes to some pretty fundamental things. I didn't quite follow the 2nd homeowner bit about compliance, though. I'm looking at a map and SW Michigan is indeed by Indiana and Chicago, so I guess that's what you mean. People in your area just called the out-of-state Indiana folks, I'm assuming.

But yeah, it is a city/country thing. Ever see when Joe posts that Cracked map of voters for people that can't figure out why anybody would have voted for Trump in 2016? I'll provide a link and you can click on it if you want. Anyway, the map of America looks like a huge landmass of red and some seas of blue.  Scroll down until you get to the map of America and what it really looks like, using the 2012 election.

https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Chicagoans want their stuff done ASAP.  If you can't do their work, they will find an outsider to do it.  This was a huge issue with AirBnB's last year.  Its never really a blue state/red state thing as much as a city/country thing.  I think 23 of the top 25 cities in the US are blue.

Looking at that map, that is why we don't want the electoral college eliminated.  80% of the area is red, but the blue areas are more populated.  No one will campaign in less populated areas.  Actually Trump did, and I felt it cost him.  

Edited by FairWarning
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Looking at that map, that is why we don't want the electoral college eliminated.  80% of the area is red, but the blue areas are more populated.  No one will campaign in less populated areas.  Actually Trump did, and I felt it cost him.  

The Electoral College has even become a partisan issue. There is a significant divide between Democrats and Republicans based upon whether they think the College should exist. This seems natural given the calls from the left on this board and in other places to replace the College with the popular vote, but it really hasn't always been that way. It's gotten exacerbated since Democrats lost elections in 2000 and 2016 while winning the popular vote. The trend of doing away with the Electoral College is pretty easily explained away by the same Team Red/Team Blue divide that plagues so many other issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, rockaction said:

The Electoral College has even become a partisan issue. There is a significant divide between Democrats and Republicans based upon whether they think the College should exist. This seems natural given the calls from the left on this board and in other places to replace the College with the popular vote, but it really hasn't always been that way. It's gotten exacerbated since Democrats lost elections in 2000 and 2016 while winning the popular vote. The trend of doing away with the Electoral College is pretty easily explained away by the same Team Red/Team Blue divide that plagues so many other issues.

It goes back to that map - team red is far more rural and those people don’t feel they have a voice.  That alone is why Trump had the success he did.  The last D that really paid attention to them was Bill Clinton.  Not advocating the tactics., but it’s a control issue.  To bring it forward, whitmer is very elitist and only cares about her Detroit base.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

It goes back to that map - team red is far more rural and those people don’t feel they have a voice.  That alone is why Trump had the success he did.  The last D that really paid attention to them was Bill Clinton.  Not advocating the tactics., but it’s a control issue.  To bring it forward, whitmer is very elitist and only cares about her Detroit base.

I agree with you about that. It doesn't feel like there's been a Democrat that has spoken to rural populations since Clinton, and before him, Carter, really. No accident they're both from Southern states. Gore was from Tennessee, but was landed political gentry there, hardly salt of the earth type stuff. And Obama won while chastising the "bitter clingers" and so forth.

So I agree about Trump's success arising from rural areas. Where else, when one looks at the map? The success of Trump is multi-dimensional, but not the least of which is his standing in rural areas. He speaks about and of the political and societal elites with an unabashed scorn, the same scorn that the elites heap upon rural folks. But rural folks have had it with the pandering, condescension, and overall questioning of their way of life by the elites. The hatred and scorn is a cycle now perpetuated by both sides, through and through.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I agree with you about that. It doesn't feel like there's been a Democrat that has spoken to rural populations since Clinton, and before him, Carter, really. No accident they're both from Southern states. Gore was from Tennessee, but was landed political gentry there, hardly salt of the earth type stuff. And Obama won while chastising the "bitter clingers" and so forth.

So I agree about Trump's success arising from rural areas. Where else, when one looks at the map? The success of Trump is multi-dimensional, but not the least of which is his standing in rural areas. He speaks about and of the political and societal elites with an unabashed scorn, the same scorn that the elites heap upon rural folks. But rural folks have had it with the pandering, condescension, and overall questioning of their way of life by the elites. The hatred and scorn is a cycle now perpetuated by both sides, through and through.

Ironically this also helped the popularity of Limbaugh. He was on in a lot of small markets, and was kind of the voice of the R’s. This was a market that D talk radio never went after.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Sea Duck said:

Which is exactly why he's doing it now. The political capital gained will outweigh the slight increase in COVID cases.

If the new SA strand takes hold in Texas like it is in Florida, we will likely not see just a slight increase in cases.  Hopefully, we see a decrease in deaths though.  In this state, with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see cases increase again in April/May even as a good number in the state gets their shots.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, The Commish said:

If the new SA strand takes hold in Texas like it is in Florida, we will likely not see just a slight increase in cases.  Hopefully, we see a decrease in deaths though.  In this state, with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see cases increase again in April/May even as a good number in the state gets their shots.

Yep.  Abbott is a dillweed.  Political expediency is his watchword.  It also deflects from the Late Unpleasantness.

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, The Commish said:

If the new SA strand takes hold in Texas like it is in Florida, we will likely not see just a slight increase in cases.  Hopefully, we see a decrease in deaths though.  In this state, with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see cases increase again in April/May even as a good number in the state gets their shots.

I think testing rates in Texas are dropping as well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Commish said:

If the new SA strand takes hold in Texas like it is in Florida, we will likely not see just a slight increase in cases.  Hopefully, we see a decrease in deaths though.  In this state, with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see cases increase again in April/May even as a good number in the state gets their shots.

Hard to be afraid of the south africa scariant when cases have been declining in south africa for several weeks(like since december)

Edited by parasaurolophus
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Political pandering.

At the expense of people's lives and well being.

And its odd that the people applauding this vs those are bashing fall mostly along the red/blue lines.  With some red seemingly more mixed in with the blue than vice versa on this one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I live in Georgia, I think mask mandates are decided at county level.  My county does not have one.  Everyone I encounter in enclosed areas, other than restaurants, wears a mask.

Might be different in "redder" areas, but just wanted to provide some hope to folks in deep blue thinking the rest of the country that a mask mandate means nobody or most don't wear masks when appropriate. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Hard to be afraid of the south africa scariant when cases have been declining in south africa for several weeks(like since december)

Not sure I follow...they are doing a pretty decent job of keeping it from spreading by using the tried and true distancing, staying in place and washing hands.  If we had the same temperment, it might be safe to compare their results with ours.  Problem is, we don't and it's well established to be more contagious.  None of that is "being afraid" :shrug: 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

I think testing rates in Texas are dropping as well. 

Heard on the radio that Texas has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country as well.  At least Florida is doing vaccinations even if driven by political favor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FairWarning said:

It goes back to that map - team red is far more rural and those people don’t feel they have a voice.  That alone is why Trump had the success he did.  The last D that really paid attention to them was Bill Clinton.  Not advocating the tactics., but it’s a control issue.  To bring it forward, whitmer is very elitist and only cares about her Detroit base.

That's insane. They are WAY over-represented in Congress.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

That's insane. They are WAY over-represented in Congress.

Thinking about team red a bit...they probably are not doing in depth analysis on the representativeness of congress.  I'm guess they know what they see, primarily through media.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Heard on the radio that Texas has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country as well.  At least Florida is doing vaccinations even if driven by political favor.

Is that after adjusting for age?. About 20% of Floridians are seniors (only Maine is higher) compared to about 13% of Texans  (only Alaska and Utah are lower) per 2018 census estimates. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

That's insane. They are WAY over-represented in Congress.

How much should they be represented?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, djmich said:

I live in Georgia, I think mask mandates are decided at county level.  My county does not have one.  Everyone I encounter in enclosed areas, other than restaurants, wears a mask.

Might be different in "redder" areas, but just wanted to provide some hope to folks in deep blue thinking the rest of the country that a mask mandate means nobody or most don't wear masks when appropriate. 

I bet it takes 3-5 years after a national mandate of not having to wearing them for people to have the confidence. We may never see it actually.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Is that after adjusting for age?. About 20% of Floridians are seniors (only Maine is higher) compared to about 13% of Texans  (only Alaska and Utah are lower) per 2018 census estimates. 

Not sure....it was a blurb headline on Morning Edition, but I'm not sure why you're asking.  Texas isn't behind because they've vaccinated all the old people and are waiting for someone to tell them who they can vaccinate next, are they?  I hope that's not what they are thinking.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, djmich said:

I live in Georgia, I think mask mandates are decided at county level.  My county does not have one.  Everyone I encounter in enclosed areas, other than restaurants, wears a mask.

Might be different in "redder" areas, but just wanted to provide some hope to folks in deep blue thinking the rest of the country that a mask mandate means nobody or most don't wear masks when appropriate. 

I *think* at the outset of the pandemic, before Texas had a statewide mask mandate, Abbott sued Austin and other cities to prevent them from enacting local mask mandates.  I sure hope he doesn't do that again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Not sure I follow...they are doing a pretty decent job of keeping it from spreading by using the tried and true distancing, staying in place and washing hands.  If we had the same temperment, it might be safe to compare their results with ours.  Problem is, we don't and it's well established to be more contagious.  None of that is "being afraid" :shrug:

They have been lifting restrictions and are in their lowest restriction level. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

They have been lifting restrictions and are in their lowest restriction level. 

 

I still don't follow where you're trying to go...I've already acknowledged their mentality over there is completely different than that of this country.  Is this you agreeing with that?  According to my SIL there was a significant spike in January up over 20K.  I don't know what things looked like in Dec though.  They still go everywhere in masks and keep their distance and don't feel like they are the exception by any stretch.

Bottom line is, we as US citizens don't have close to the same mentality of the people of SA most of whom are still social distancing even if the government isn't telling them to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Probably a month or so too early, but the effects of vaccination are probably going to completely drown out the effects of this policy change.

I hope so. 

I live in a state (AZ) that's probably likely to follow suit. I really, really wish we'd hold off until next month or so as a significant amount of us will then be fully vaccinated by then. 

In other words, it seems like we're close but I wish we'd hold off just a bit longer to let the first few waves of the vaccinations crash safely. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also hope Ivan is right, but every public health expert I’ve heard says this is incredibly stupid. 

In pandemic matters I believe it’s wise to trust public health experts over politicians. 

  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, timschochet said:

I also hope Ivan is right, but every public health expert I’ve heard says this is incredibly stupid. 

In pandemic matters I believe it’s wise to trust public health experts over politicians. 

Of course it is incredibly stupid. This is the mandate. The dumber it is the more the libs get bothered. #winning

Link to post
Share on other sites

CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will

bank on it

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Zow said:

I hope so. 

I live in a state (AZ) that's probably likely to follow suit. I really, really wish we'd hold off until next month or so as a significant amount of us will then be fully vaccinated by then. 

In other words, it seems like we're close but I wish we'd hold off just a bit longer to let the first few waves of the vaccinations crash safely. 

The damage is done already. Most retailers don’t have enforce the mandate to avoid the confrontation. As soon as other states ‘open up’, the bad behavior will start. I’m already expecting a sharp decline and mask wearing by next week. The frustrating thing is that we are so close, now we have to hope enough have been vaccinated to avoid a huge spike.

I know that my job of convincing people just got extremely difficult. I’m afraid that getting vaccinated will become a political issue and those who deem the pandemic to be over will refuse to be vaccinated.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

The damage is done already. Most retailers don’t have enforce the mandate to avoid the confrontation. As soon as other states ‘open up’, the bad behavior will start. I’m already expecting a sharp decline and mask wearing by next week. The frustrating thing is that we are so close, now we have to hope enough have been vaccinated to avoid a huge spike.

I know that my job of convincing people just got extremely difficult. I’m afraid that getting vaccinated will become a political issue and those who deem the pandemic to be over will refuse to be vaccinated.

Agree entirely with the bold. If anything we should be even more precautious in the next 30-60 as thousands get vaccinated each day. 

But, assuming we're both speaking about AZ, it's freaking AZ and that's way too much to expect. Hence my disappointment with Texas for doing what it did because I fear AZ following suit too quickly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will

bank on it

 

I will need to consult with @SWC before doing so...

Edited by Zow
  • Thanks 1
  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, tonydead said:

Awesome. Some common gosh darn sense finally.  

#ditchthemask

Adding Texas and Mississippi to potential retirement states. 

I genuinely don't understand this sentiment and therefore don't see it as "common sense" or "gosh darn sense" by any means - and I'm generally a guy who disfavors governments requiring people to do certain things if others aren't impacted. In other words, I don't get why putting a mask on to otherwise go about your business is that big of a deal. Do you not believe that the mask does any good in stopping the spread? If that's not it, what is? 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will

bank on it

Texas has 1,553 deaths per million right now.  California has 1,336.  And the gap has been growing in recent days.

Why would ditching masks and gathering in large groups in Texas turn that around?

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Zow said:

In other words, I don't get why putting a mask on to otherwise go about your business is that big of a deal. Do you not believe that the mask does any good in stopping the spread? If that's not it, what is? 

masks didn't stop the covid spread, infections or deaths

fact

did they make any difference at all? I don't know that they did with the numbers that we have and its only speculation that masks made any differences at all

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Texas has 1,553 deaths per million right now.  California has 1,336.  And the gap has been growing in recent days.

Why would ditching masks and gathering in large groups in Texas turn that around?

so a wide open state has that few more deaths per million ........ and that's not factoring in all the other variables that doesn't give us real apples to apples comparisons

I'm saying its not going to be that big a difference - and it never has been IMO

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

so a wide open state has that few more deaths per million ........ and that's not factoring in all the other variables that doesn't give us real apples to apples comparisons

I'm saying its not going to be that big a difference - and it never has been IMO

This seems a lot more reasonable than 

"CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will

bank on it"

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

masks didn't stop the covid spread, infections or deaths

fact

did they make any difference at all? I don't know that they did with the numbers that we have and its only speculation that masks made any differences at all

We do not have historicals without masks to really see how effective they are.  But if we look at the Flu, which is also spread mainly through water droplets in the air, we may be able to see if masks are effective.

Hospitalizations are down 98% year over year in the flu.  Most experts credit masks and social distancing.

I know that Covid and the Flu are not exactly alike, but I think it's crazy not to think that masks helped in a big way in keeping the Covid numbers down.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

masks didn't stop the covid spread, infections or deaths

fact

did they make any difference at all? I don't know that they did with the numbers that we have and its only speculation that masks made any differences at all

So actual facts make no difference at all to you?  Masks work, and they don't cost much at all.  They are barely inconvenient.

Deal.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Zow said:
1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will

bank on it

 

I will need to consult with @SWC before doing so...

Edited 1 hour ago by Zow

hes diluting my brohantillectual property with his poor mans use of the brohans english so counselor please feel free to send a cease and desist letter and commence litigation if necessary take that to the bank bromigo 

  • Like 2
  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

We do not have historicals without masks to really see how effective they are.  But if we look at the Flu, which is also spread mainly through water droplets in the air, we may be able to see if masks are effective.

Hospitalizations are down 98% year over year in the flu.  Most experts credit masks and social distancing.

I know that Covid and the Flu are not exactly alike, but I think it's crazy not to think that masks helped in a big way in keeping the Covid numbers down.

The combination of masks and ~50% vaccination rate has reduced flu hospitalizations by 98%. We're not quite there yet with the COVID-19 vaccine. Masks have definitely reduced COVID deaths, but it's hard to quantity since there are so many confounds. More evidence - how many have died in densely populated cities in Asia. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

masks didn't stop the covid spread, infections or deaths

fact

did they make any difference at all? I don't know that they did with the numbers that we have and its only speculation that masks made any differences at all

Well, yeah, obviously the masks didn't absolutely stop the spread. Similarly, seatbelts don't stop all injuries in accidents and good helmets don't stop all concussions. The question is whether they're mitigating those injuries enough (or in the Covid-19 case whether they are substantially curtailing/slowing the spread) that it is worth requiring their wear. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

So actual facts make no difference at all to you?  Masks work, and they don't cost much at all.  They are barely inconvenient.

Deal.

This is an extremely good point to keep in mind.  These various pandemic-related restrictions each come with their own individual sets of costs and benefits.  In principle, mask mandates -- or at least voluntary masking -- should be one of the last things to go since it has negligible cost and probably provides at least some benefit.  (I'm starting to grow kind of skeptical about the mandate part, but masking is obviously very helpful). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

This is an extremely good point to keep in mind.  These various pandemic-related restrictions each come with their own individual sets of costs and benefits.  In principle, mask mandates -- or at least voluntary masking -- should be one of the last things to go since it has negligible cost and probably provides at least some benefit.  (I'm starting to grow kind of skeptical about the mandate part, but masking is obviously very helpful). 

But given the last page of posts, apparently not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Zow said:

I genuinely don't understand this sentiment and therefore don't see it as "common sense" or "gosh darn sense" by any means - and I'm generally a guy who disfavors governments requiring people to do certain things if others aren't impacted. In other words, I don't get why putting a mask on to otherwise go about your business is that big of a deal. Do you not believe that the mask does any good in stopping the spread? If that's not it, what is? 

Because they are no longer needed. You gonna wear a mask forever?  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember when mask wearing and lockdowns were so we could flatten the curve?
Somehow that’s changed to people wanting the restrictions on even after the 65+ have been vaccinated? 
 

No. #ditchthemask

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • NorvilleBarnes changed the title to Gov. Abbott opens TX. MS, CT, WV, AZ & KS join. Now GOP opens Georgia!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...