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Gov. Abbott opens TX. MS, CT, WV, AZ & KS join. Now GOP opens Georgia!


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On 3/5/2021 at 9:05 PM, Biff84 said:

This was specifically a poll of the residents at the retirement community we’ve been working to vaccinate.

Ah, I didn't realize that. And it's good to hear they are being vaccinated at a much higher rate! That makes sense.

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The fact that well over a year later masks wearing is still political is mind numbingly stupid.

I get what you're saying, but CT is way ahead of most on this, is a small state that tracked and traced pretty effectively, and is indeed keeping restrictions and requirements intact. I have a ha

It is absolutely amazing to me how the American narrative on covid, opening up, masks and other safety precautions is the exact opposite of most every other western democratic society.  It is not surp

Caught SC's gem of a post that BB quoted.    Just a quick reply - 

No - people don't feel safe as you walk around with your dirty ### mask half on your face.  It's not like people don't notice.  All that you are accomplishing is letting people know you don't care enough about their health to take 30secs out of your day to wash a mask or make sure it's over your mouth and nose.  

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On 3/4/2021 at 3:37 PM, Terminalxylem said:

What would it take for you to accept the possibility that wearing a mask is reasonable grown-up behavior? I’m not talking at all times or situations, but would it be ridiculous to suggest widespread mask wearing during flu season (or when flu prevalence exceeds a threshold in your community) for example? 

Beyond ridiculous.  C'mon, this forever mask BS needs to stop. 

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On 3/3/2021 at 4:24 PM, Mrs. Rannous said:

I should also point out the enormous strawman here.  No one suggested wearing them forever.  But two or three more months just isn't all that much.  Suck it up.

No one?  That didnt age well.  lol

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26 minutes ago, tonydead said:
On 3/3/2021 at 6:24 PM, Mrs. Rannous said:

I should also point out the enormous strawman here.  No one suggested wearing them forever.  But two or three more months just isn't all that much.  Suck it up.

No one?  That didnt age well.  lol

No one is arguing that we wear them forever now though. Sure, some are advocating that maybe we should wear them if we are symptomatic with the flu as a common courtesy to others. And if we all did in fact wear them in the first few months and followed strict distancing guidelines, we could have been out of this without the vaccine (would have taken more than two or three months though)

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4 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

No one is arguing that we wear them forever now though. Sure, some are advocating that maybe we should wear them if we are symptomatic with the flu as a common courtesy to others. And if we all did in fact wear them in the first few months and followed strict distancing guidelines, we could have been out of this without the vaccine (would have taken more than two or three months though)

I was just asked 20 minutes ago what would be wrong with wearing masks forever. :lmao:

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The impact of this disease (and all transmissible diseases really) is completely regional. Should subway riders in NYC consider wearing masks during flu/Covid season? Sure, and it can't hurt. Should someone in Montana, Idaho or South Dakota who barely comes into contact with anyone, and when they do it's with one or two other people, should they need to consider wearing masks? Probably not, they're not going to get it or give it to others. People should do what is best in their region, and the government can help by providing facts and guidance. No need for mandates, particularly once these vaccination rates climb.

The tough guy attitude towards NPIs is ridiculous though. It's like a race to see who's the coolest. "I never wore a mask!". "Oh yeah, I never even looked at a mask!" "Oh yeah, well I never even washed my hands!". C'mon. Before there were vaccines we had to do what we had to do. If we had to do it again I would recommend we would take a more targeted regional approach.  

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

I was just asked 20 minutes ago what would be wrong with wearing masks forever. :lmao:

With this important caveat

I’m not talking at all times or situations, but would it be ridiculous to suggest widespread mask wearing during flu season (or when flu prevalence exceeds a threshold in your community) for example? 

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

I was just asked 20 minutes ago what would be wrong with wearing masks forever. :lmao:

Sorry, I disregarded the "forever" nonsense and was more addressing the common sense use of masks for allergens and cold/flu season by those who chose to wear them. No laws or anything like that.

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7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

It's almost like the "discussion" isn't genuine or in good faith :mellow: 

Dude used to at least be an entertaining troll. Seems a few of our friends here have gone well round the bend recently.

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14 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Caught SC's gem of a post that BB quoted.    Just a quick reply - 

No - people don't feel safe as you walk around with your dirty ### mask half on your face.  It's not like people don't notice.  All that you are accomplishing is letting people know you don't care enough about their health to take 30secs out of your day to wash a mask or make sure it's over your mouth and nose.  

amazing - you can tell a dirty mask from a clean one at a glance ?

truly amazing !

The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers that didn’t exceed statistical margins of error.

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7 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

Dude used to at least be an entertaining troll. Seems a few of our friends here have gone well round the bend recently.

troll is name calling - ask Joe Bryant if I'm a "troll" - I live in the same town as him, our kids go to the same school etc

I discuss and read and exchange ideas etc and sometimes I'm wrong and often I reflect on my views on things. This mask thing .... again, look at the graphs. Between July last year and end of December when everyone was mask mandated - did covid infections go DOWN or UP ?

its a simple stat to see - covid numbers SOARED

now, some people thinks it'd have been worse - but there is no proof of that only guessing and there are a lot of factors involved as well ....

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

amazing - you can tell a dirty mask from a clean one at a glance ?

truly amazing !

The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers that didn’t exceed statistical margins of error.

Um

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

troll is name calling - ask Joe Bryant if I'm a "troll" - I live in the same town as him, our kids go to the same school etc

I discuss and read and exchange ideas etc and sometimes I'm wrong and often I reflect on my views on things. This mask thing .... again, look at the graphs. Between July last year and end of December when everyone was mask mandated - did covid infections go DOWN or UP ?

its a simple stat to see - covid numbers SOARED

now, some people thinks it'd have been worse - but there is no proof of that only guessing and there are a lot of factors involved as well ....

I wasn't referring to you. I don't think you are a troll.

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6 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

I wasn't referring to you. I don't think you are a troll.

my apologies - I saw that as towards me !! 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

so how effective is mask wearing ? 50% ? 80% ?   20% ?  

I mean it has to be significant right ?  from that link 

 

During March 1–December 31, 2020, state-issued mask mandates applied in 2,313 (73.6%) of the 3,142 U.S. counties. Mask mandates were associated with a 0.5 percentage point decrease (p = 0.02) in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 1–20 days after implementation and decreases of 1.1, 1.5, 1.7, and 1.8 percentage points 21–40, 41–60, 61–80, and 81–100 days, respectively, after implementation (p<0.01 for all) (Table 1) (Figure).

During the study period, states allowed restaurants to reopen for on-premises dining in 3,076 (97.9%) U.S. counties. Changes in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates were not statistically significant 1–20 and 21–40 days after restrictions were lifted.

 

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13 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

The CDC has admitted face masks do little to prevent the spread of COVID-19 amid mounting pressure to lift mask mandates across the U.S. In a new study, the CDC found face masks had a negligible impact on coronavirus numbers that didn’t exceed statistical margins of error.

Seems you got this from OAN. And that is one terribly misleading title. Here is the summary of the study.

Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was associated with an increase in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 41–100 days after implementation and an increase in daily death growth rates 61–100 days after implementation.

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1 minute ago, dawgtrails said:

Seems you got this from OAN. And that is one terribly misleading title. Here is the summary of the study.

Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was associated with an increase in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 41–100 days after implementation and an increase in daily death growth rates 61–100 days after implementation.

that's in the SUMMARY .... I didn't see those stat's anywhere listed did you ?

 

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1 hour ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

The impact of this disease (and all transmissible diseases really) is completely regional.

Agreed. Do you support a national mask mandate?

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1 hour ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

The impact of this disease (and all transmissible diseases really) is completely regional. Should subway riders in NYC consider wearing masks during flu/Covid season? Sure, and it can't hurt. Should someone in Montana, Idaho or South Dakota who barely comes into contact with anyone, and when they do it's with one or two other people, should they need to consider wearing masks? Probably not, they're not going to get it or give it to others. People should do what is best in their region, and the government can help by providing facts and guidance. No need for mandates, particularly once these vaccination rates climb.

The tough guy attitude towards NPIs is ridiculous though. It's like a race to see who's the coolest. "I never wore a mask!". "Oh yeah, I never even looked at a mask!" "Oh yeah, well I never even washed my hands!". C'mon. Before there were vaccines we had to do what we had to do. If we had to do it again I would recommend we would take a more targeted regional approach.  

 

3 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Agreed. Do you support a national mask mandate?

Nope. I support a targeted regional approach, without any national mandates of any kind. People should do what is best in their region, and the government can help by providing facts and guidance. And if we had it to do over again a regional approach is how it should be handled. The subways of NYC aren't the same as the wide open spaces of Wyoming, for example. 

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25 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Seems you got this from OAN. And that is one terribly misleading title. Here is the summary of the study.

Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was associated with an increase in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 41–100 days after implementation and an increase in daily death growth rates 61–100 days after implementation.

There is also a distinction to be made between a mandate and following their suggestions as to proper care and use and people like SC purposely rocking dirty masks that don't fit.  

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2 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

The impact of this disease (and all transmissible diseases really) is completely regional. Should subway riders in NYC consider wearing masks during flu/Covid season? Sure, and it can't hurt. Should someone in Montana, Idaho or South Dakota who barely comes into contact with anyone, and when they do it's with one or two other people, should they need to consider wearing masks? Probably not, they're not going to get it or give it to others. People should do what is best in their region, and the government can help by providing facts and guidance. No need for mandates, particularly once these vaccination rates climb.

The tough guy attitude towards NPIs is ridiculous though. It's like a race to see who's the coolest. "I never wore a mask!". "Oh yeah, I never even looked at a mask!" "Oh yeah, well I never even washed my hands!". C'mon. Before there were vaccines we had to do what we had to do. If we had to do it again I would recommend we would take a more targeted regional approach.  

I haven't given this much thought but it is an interesting question.  As somone who used to ride the subway every single day but hasn't been on it in about a year I wonder what the new normal will be like. 

My guess is when I start needing to head into the office again regularly that I will wear a mask on the subway every day. I figure it protects me from the flu and helps protect others in a very crowded environment.  I have gotten very used to wearing a mask anytime I am out of my house and it honestly doesn't bug me at all.  I don't get the general resistance to it either I see in this thread and elsewhere.

Of course, I still don't know when I will head into the office every day again but imagine it is the fall at the earliest.

 

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9 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

CDC: Vaccinated people can gather indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing.

LINK

Wonderful!!!

Especially this part

The recommendations also say that vaccinated people can come together in the same way with people considered at low-risk for severe disease, such as in the case of vaccinated grandparents visiting healthy children and grandchildren.

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47 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

that's in the SUMMARY .... I didn't see those stat's anywhere listed did you ?

 

Yes, they summarize the data so we don't need to slog through hundreds of pages

Studies have confirmed the effectiveness of community mitigation measures in reducing the prevalence of COVID-19 (5–8). Mask mandates are associated with reductions in COVID-19 case and hospitalization growth rates (6,7),

You can click through the references # 5-8 if you so please. I will take their word for it though

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1 hour ago, dawgtrails said:

With this important caveat

I’m not talking at all times or situations, but would it be ridiculous to suggest widespread mask wearing during flu season (or when flu prevalence exceeds a threshold in your community) for example? 

Yes, it's ridiculous to consider wearing masks every flu season, or for any other virus that might pop up, for the rest of our lives. Shouting that you didn't say you had to wear it every second of every day doesn't make it any less ridiculous.  

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10 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

I haven't given this much thought but it is an interesting question.  As somone who used to ride the subway every single day but hasn't been on it in about a year I wonder what the new normal will be like. 

My guess is when I start needing to head into the office again regularly that I will wear a mask on the subway every day. I figure it protects me from the flu and helps protect others in a very crowded environment.  I have gotten very used to wearing a mask anytime I was out of my house and it honestly doesn't bug me at all.  I don't get the general resistance to it either I see in this thread and elsewhere.

Of course, I still don't know when I will head into the office every day again but imagine it is the fall at the earliest.

 

When I used to see people wearing masks in the city or in Eastern countries, I thought it was odd and that it was because of pollution.

I will no longer consider it odd and now know exactly why they were wearing them.

I wouldn't expect to see mask wearing on a beach with plenty of distancing available though. Again, targeted solutions. 

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

troll is name calling - ask Joe Bryant if I'm a "troll" - I live in the same town as him, our kids go to the same school etc

I discuss and read and exchange ideas etc and sometimes I'm wrong and often I reflect on my views on things. This mask thing .... again, look at the graphs. Between July last year and end of December when everyone was mask mandated - did covid infections go DOWN or UP ?

its a simple stat to see - covid numbers SOARED

[b]now, some people thinks it'd have been worse - but there is no proof of that only guessing and there are a lot of factors involved as well ....[/b]

 

 

Regarding the bolded, what is your response to the Kansas study discussed in the FoxNews piece I linked in response to your prior post?

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3 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

now, some people thinks it'd have been worse - but there is no proof of that only guessing and there are a lot of factors involved as well ...

It seems like Kansas was discussed in another thread too - but on that news link, they're not showing or talking any statistics - real numbers

they could have said wearing pink stops covid - but that doesn't mean its true and yes, I'm skeptical of anything I read

 

but the references I'm making to the CDC stats .... I mean maybe Kansas is a statistical anomaly, maybe big numbers to that guy is 1% .... huge spikes is 1% .... I don't know

what I DO know is that the biggest monster spikes in covid cases came during the peak months that masks were forced on people 

 

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1 hour ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

CDC: Vaccinated people can gather indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing.

LINK

I guess that answers your question from Saturday night.  Have at, buddy!

ETA: I forgot to tag @fatguyinalittlecoat, but you're also welcome to go to town, @NorvilleBarnes

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6 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

It seems like Kansas was discussed in another thread too - but on that news link, they're not showing or talking any statistics - real numbers

they could have said wearing pink stops covid - but that doesn't mean its true and yes, I'm skeptical of anything I read

 

The Kansas study was discussed in this very thread, and and NPR article reporting on the study's data and conclusions was linked.  You dismissed the article and the study it covered out of hand, claiming that the article was "biased." So now I link a FoxNews piece discussing the study and its conclusions, and you dismiss that out of hand as well, this time claiming that the piece doesn't discuss the data. Meanwhile you continue to claim, categorically, that there is no proof at all and that people are just guessing when they say it could have been worse without the mask mandates.

Anyway, here's the CDC Study on the Kansas mask mandate.

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On 3/4/2021 at 8:32 AM, dawgtrails said:

 

On 3/4/2021 at 8:43 AM, Stealthycat said:

seems like a biased article from the last sentences

"Shaman acknowledges that "we're all exhausted by this virus. But the reality is the virus doesn't care. All it looks for is the opportunity to move from person to person," he says.

And a mask is a harmless, cheap way of slowing it down."

 

This was your response to the NPR article.  I'm not sure how this quote from an infectious disease expert at Columbia University makes the NPR article biased.

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7 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

Wonderful!!!

Especially this part

The recommendations also say that vaccinated people can come together in the same way with people considered at low-risk for severe disease, such as in the case of vaccinated grandparents visiting healthy children and grandchildren.

Yes, the second word is the wonderful part.

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15 hours ago, bigbottom said:

The Kansas study was discussed in this very thread, and and NPR article reporting on the study's data and conclusions was linked.  You dismissed the article and the study it covered out of hand, claiming that the article was "biased." So now I link a FoxNews piece discussing the study and its conclusions, and you dismiss that out of hand as well, this time claiming that the piece doesn't discuss the data. Meanwhile you continue to claim, categorically, that there is no proof at all and that people are just guessing when they say it could have been worse without the mask mandates.

Anyway, here's the CDC Study on the Kansas mask mandate.

what about September, October, November and December months ?

that study was a few weeks worth of data right ?

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15 hours ago, bigbottom said:

 

This was your response to the NPR article.  I'm not sure how this quote from an infectious disease expert at Columbia University makes the NPR article biased.

I'm pro-gun ... if I wrote an article would I write it supporting guns or bashing guns ?

articles are often opinion pieces - written and assembled to the conclusion that supports what the author believes

am I right ?

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22 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

CDC: Vaccinated people can gather indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing.

LINK

you need the CDC to tell you its ok to do that ?

if I want to go to a house with 6 contagious covid19 people in it and dine with them, hug them and watch Tom Brady get another super bowl .... I will

I don't need the CDC to tell me if i can or cannot

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13 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you need the CDC to tell you its ok to do that ?

if I want to go to a house with 6 contagious covid19 people in it and dine with them, hug them and watch Tom Brady get another super bowl .... I will

I don't need the CDC to tell me if i can or cannot

The CDC provides guidance based on science. They try to boil things down to steps that can be easily applied to as many situations as possible and help the average person make good decisions. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you need the CDC to tell you its ok to do that ?

if I want to go to a house with 6 contagious covid19 people in it and dine with them, hug them and watch Tom Brady get another super bowl .... I will

I don't need the CDC to tell me if i can or cannot

You don't, but we do.

ETA: the government tells you what you can and can't do everyday. 

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12 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:
44 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you need the CDC to tell you its ok to do that ?

I don't need the CDC to tell me if i can or cannot

You don't, but we do.

Pitiful.

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16 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

You don't, but we do.

ETA: the government tells you what you can and can't do everyday. 

in many ways the Govt does but still, we are one of the more free nations

I'd like to keep it that way

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On 3/8/2021 at 10:06 AM, Grace Under Pressure said:

The impact of this disease (and all transmissible diseases really) is completely regional. Should subway riders in NYC consider wearing masks during flu/Covid season? Sure, and it can't hurt. Should someone in Montana, Idaho or South Dakota who barely comes into contact with anyone, and when they do it's with one or two other people, should they need to consider wearing masks? Probably not, they're not going to get it or give it to others. People should do what is best in their region, and the government can help by providing facts and guidance. No need for mandates, particularly once these vaccination rates climb.

The tough guy attitude towards NPIs is ridiculous though. It's like a race to see who's the coolest. "I never wore a mask!". "Oh yeah, I never even looked at a mask!" "Oh yeah, well I never even washed my hands!". C'mon. Before there were vaccines we had to do what we had to do. If we had to do it again I would recommend we would take a more targeted regional approach.  

Good point.  I can’t imagine being on the NYC subway everyday.  I’d probably want a space suit.  

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13 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Good point.  I can’t imagine being on the NYC subway everyday.  I’d probably want a space suit.  

Definitely hard to be a germaphobe there Id say.  Just in a week visit pre-covid (thankfully) and was a great visit.  But definitely not the cleanliest place.

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1 hour ago, The General said:
1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

you need the CDC to tell you its ok to do that ?

if I want to go to a house with 6 contagious covid19 people in it and dine with them, hug them and watch Tom Brady get another super bowl .... I will

I don't need the CDC to tell me if i can or cannot

The CDC provides guidance based on science. They try to boil things down to steps that can be easily applied to as many situations as possible and help the average person make good decisions. 

This. They aren't telling you what to do @Stealthycat - you keep on being you

But many people look to scientists to determine their best course of action, especially when it comes to visiting elderly parents/grandparents and not wanting to put them in more danger than necessary

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  • NorvilleBarnes changed the title to Gov. Abbott opens TX. MS, CT, WV, AZ & KS join. Now GOP opens Georgia!

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