rockaction
Footballguy
I'm being earnest when I say I don't necessarily know what you mean. Not trying to get on you or anything, but do you mind unpacking that?
Are you in a red area given your locales size but in a blue area because of Michigan?
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Gov. Abbott opens TX. MS, CT, WV, AZ & KS join. Now GOP opens Georgia! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NorvilleBarnes
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Are you in a red area given your locales size but in a blue area because of Michigan?
FairWarning
Footballguy
It's basically a city/country thing. Most every county here is red, but the cities vote D. It is worse when you are on the border of a red area from another state. My area is very service/gig oriented. Businesses were fined heavy for not complying - so 2nd home owners from chicago would just call out of state to have work done. Our numbers were never that bad compared to the rest of the state. Now the next county over (very red), people rarely wore masks, and said it was their right.
rockaction
Footballguy
I can see where it would be a urban/rural thing, if I understand you correctly. That seems like the story of most of America, really. The further away from the cities you get, the more red it gets. It's sad that being in a red area associates one with certain modes of thought and behaviors and sad that being blue does, too. One would hope that we're more citizen/America than red/blue, but that doesn't seem to really be the case when it comes to some pretty fundamental things. I didn't quite follow the 2nd homeowner bit about compliance, though. I'm looking at a map and SW Michigan is indeed by Indiana and Chicago, so I guess that's what you mean. People in your area just called the out-of-state Indiana folks, I'm assuming.
But yeah, it is a city/country thing. Ever see when Joe posts that Cracked map of voters for people that can't figure out why anybody would have voted for Trump in 2016? I'll provide a link and you can click on it if you want. Anyway, the map of America looks like a huge landmass of red and some seas of blue. Scroll down until you get to the map of America and what it really looks like, using the 2012 election.
https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
FairWarning
Footballguy
Chicagoans want their stuff done ASAP. If you can't do their work, they will find an outsider to do it. This was a huge issue with AirBnB's last year. Its never really a blue state/red state thing as much as a city/country thing. I think 23 of the top 25 cities in the US are blue.
Looking at that map, that is why we don't want the electoral college eliminated. 80% of the area is red, but the blue areas are more populated. No one will campaign in less populated areas. Actually Trump did, and I felt it cost him.
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rockaction
Footballguy
The Electoral College has even become a partisan issue. There is a significant divide between Democrats and Republicans based upon whether they think the College should exist. This seems natural given the calls from the left on this board and in other places to replace the College with the popular vote, but it really hasn't always been that way. It's gotten exacerbated since Democrats lost elections in 2000 and 2016 while winning the popular vote. The trend of doing away with the Electoral College is pretty easily explained away by the same Team Red/Team Blue divide that plagues so many other issues.
FairWarning
Footballguy
It goes back to that map - team red is far more rural and those people don’t feel they have a voice. That alone is why Trump had the success he did. The last D that really paid attention to them was Bill Clinton. Not advocating the tactics., but it’s a control issue. To bring it forward, whitmer is very elitist and only cares about her Detroit base.
rockaction
Footballguy
I agree with you about that. It doesn't feel like there's been a Democrat that has spoken to rural populations since Clinton, and before him, Carter, really. No accident they're both from Southern states. Gore was from Tennessee, but was landed political gentry there, hardly salt of the earth type stuff. And Obama won while chastising the "bitter clingers" and so forth.
So I agree about Trump's success arising from rural areas. Where else, when one looks at the map? The success of Trump is multi-dimensional, but not the least of which is his standing in rural areas. He speaks about and of the political and societal elites with an unabashed scorn, the same scorn that the elites heap upon rural folks. But rural folks have had it with the pandering, condescension, and overall questioning of their way of life by the elites. The hatred and scorn is a cycle now perpetuated by both sides, through and through.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Ironically this also helped the popularity of Limbaugh. He was on in a lot of small markets, and was kind of the voice of the R’s. This was a market that D talk radio never went after.
The Commish
Footballguy
If the new SA strand takes hold in Texas like it is in Florida, we will likely not see just a slight increase in cases. Hopefully, we see a decrease in deaths though. In this state, with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see cases increase again in April/May even as a good number in the state gets their shots.Sea Duck said:
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
Yep. Abbott is a dillweed. Political expediency is his watchword. It also deflects from the Late Unpleasantness.
bigbottom
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Hard to be afraid of the south africa scariant when cases have been declining in south africa for several weeks(like since december)
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sho nuff
Footballguy
And its odd that the people applauding this vs those are bashing fall mostly along the red/blue lines. With some red seemingly more mixed in with the blue than vice versa on this one.
djmich
Footballguy
I live in Georgia, I think mask mandates are decided at county level. My county does not have one. Everyone I encounter in enclosed areas, other than restaurants, wears a mask.
Might be different in "redder" areas, but just wanted to provide some hope to folks in deep blue thinking the rest of the country that a mask mandate means nobody or most don't wear masks when appropriate.
Might be different in "redder" areas, but just wanted to provide some hope to folks in deep blue thinking the rest of the country that a mask mandate means nobody or most don't wear masks when appropriate.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure I follow...they are doing a pretty decent job of keeping it from spreading by using the tried and true distancing, staying in place and washing hands. If we had the same temperment, it might be safe to compare their results with ours. Problem is, we don't and it's well established to be more contagious. None of that is "being afraid"
The Commish
Footballguy
Heard on the radio that Texas has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country as well. At least Florida is doing vaccinations even if driven by political favor.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
Thinking about team red a bit...they probably are not doing in depth analysis on the representativeness of congress. I'm guess they know what they see, primarily through media.
Is that after adjusting for age?. About 20% of Floridians are seniors (only Maine is higher) compared to about 13% of Texans (only Alaska and Utah are lower) per 2018 census estimates.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
I bet it takes 3-5 years after a national mandate of not having to wearing them for people to have the confidence. We may never see it actually.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure....it was a blurb headline on Morning Edition, but I'm not sure why you're asking. Texas isn't behind because they've vaccinated all the old people and are waiting for someone to tell them who they can vaccinate next, are they? I hope that's not what they are thinking.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I *think* at the outset of the pandemic, before Texas had a statewide mask mandate, Abbott sued Austin and other cities to prevent them from enacting local mask mandates. I sure hope he doesn't do that again.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
They have been lifting restrictions and are in their lowest restriction level.Not sure I follow...they are doing a pretty decent job of keeping it from spreading by using the tried and true distancing, staying in place and washing hands. If we had the same temperment, it might be safe to compare their results with ours. Problem is, we don't and it's well established to be more contagious. None of that is "being afraid"
The Commish
Footballguy
I still don't follow where you're trying to go...I've already acknowledged their mentality over there is completely different than that of this country. Is this you agreeing with that? According to my SIL there was a significant spike in January up over 20K. I don't know what things looked like in Dec though. They still go everywhere in masks and keep their distance and don't feel like they are the exception by any stretch.
Bottom line is, we as US citizens don't have close to the same mentality of the people of SA most of whom are still social distancing even if the government isn't telling them to.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
I hope so.IvanKaramazov said:
I live in a state (AZ) that's probably likely to follow suit. I really, really wish we'd hold off until next month or so as a significant amount of us will then be fully vaccinated by then.
In other words, it seems like we're close but I wish we'd hold off just a bit longer to let the first few waves of the vaccinations crash safely.
timschochet
Footballguy
I also hope Ivan is right, but every public health expert I’ve heard says this is incredibly stupid.
In pandemic matters I believe it’s wise to trust public health experts over politicians.
In pandemic matters I believe it’s wise to trust public health experts over politicians.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Of course it is incredibly stupid. This is the mandate. The dumber it is the more the libs get bothered. #winning
Stealthycat
Footballguy
CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will
bank on it
bank on it
The damage is done already. Most retailers don’t have enforce the mandate to avoid the confrontation. As soon as other states ‘open up’, the bad behavior will start. I’m already expecting a sharp decline and mask wearing by next week. The frustrating thing is that we are so close, now we have to hope enough have been vaccinated to avoid a huge spike.
I know that my job of convincing people just got extremely difficult. I’m afraid that getting vaccinated will become a political issue and those who deem the pandemic to be over will refuse to be vaccinated.
Zow
Footballguy
Agree entirely with the bold. If anything we should be even more precautious in the next 30-60 as thousands get vaccinated each day.
But, assuming we're both speaking about AZ, it's freaking AZ and that's way too much to expect. Hence my disappointment with Texas for doing what it did because I fear AZ following suit too quickly.
Zow
Footballguy
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Zow
Footballguy
I genuinely don't understand this sentiment and therefore don't see it as "common sense" or "gosh darn sense" by any means - and I'm generally a guy who disfavors governments requiring people to do certain things if others aren't impacted. In other words, I don't get why putting a mask on to otherwise go about your business is that big of a deal. Do you not believe that the mask does any good in stopping the spread? If that's not it, what is?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Texas has 1,553 deaths per million right now. California has 1,336. And the gap has been growing in recent days.
Why would ditching masks and gathering in large groups in Texas turn that around?
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so a wide open state has that few more deaths per million ........ and that's not factoring in all the other variables that doesn't give us real apples to apples comparisons
I'm saying its not going to be that big a difference - and it never has been IMO
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
This seems a lot more reasonable than
"CA with all its mandates will have more infections and deaths than a free economy and peoples of Texas will
bank on it"
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Canada will have way more deaths than Delaware. Bank on it!
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
We do not have historicals without masks to really see how effective they are. But if we look at the Flu, which is also spread mainly through water droplets in the air, we may be able to see if masks are effective.
Hospitalizations are down 98% year over year in the flu. Most experts credit masks and social distancing.
I know that Covid and the Flu are not exactly alike, but I think it's crazy not to think that masks helped in a big way in keeping the Covid numbers down.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
So actual facts make no difference at all to you? Masks work, and they don't cost much at all. They are barely inconvenient.
Deal.
The combination of masks and ~50% vaccination rate has reduced flu hospitalizations by 98%. We're not quite there yet with the COVID-19 vaccine. Masks have definitely reduced COVID deaths, but it's hard to quantity since there are so many confounds. More evidence - how many have died in densely populated cities in Asia.
Zow
Footballguy
Well, yeah, obviously the masks didn't absolutely stop the spread. Similarly, seatbelts don't stop all injuries in accidents and good helmets don't stop all concussions. The question is whether they're mitigating those injuries enough (or in the Covid-19 case whether they are substantially curtailing/slowing the spread) that it is worth requiring their wear.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is an extremely good point to keep in mind. These various pandemic-related restrictions each come with their own individual sets of costs and benefits. In principle, mask mandates -- or at least voluntary masking -- should be one of the last things to go since it has negligible cost and probably provides at least some benefit. (I'm starting to grow kind of skeptical about the mandate part, but masking is obviously very helpful).
Zow
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
He's not outlawing masks.
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