Insein
Footballguy
Then what is your opposition to getting them to become citizens through our legal processes? Seems like they would be come good members oof our country if they just follow the rules to get here.
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Kamala Harris' border crisis. Biden put her in charge. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NorvilleBarnes
- Start date
The economy? An economy whose unemployment is still 55% higher than pre-pandemic levels caused this massive flood of illegals. That's your logical argument?
timschochet
Footballguy
It would take a long time to truly explain my position but I will try for the basics.in a nutshell:
1. For the vast majority of those who come to our southern border and cross over illegally, there are no legal process for them to follow, no rules that would allow them to come here legally, no line for them to get into. That option is simply not available for most of them. The immigration process in most of Latin America is extremely corrupt, not by our design but by the design of the governments down there: in order to get on the extremely limited quota you need to have money, and know somebody. That is not an option for most of these folks. They are not cutting in line because there is no line.
2. That being said, I don’t like that they come over here illegally any more than you do. That is why I am for giving them refugee status, and for widening our legal immigration system to let them all in the way we did in the days of Ellis Island, excepting criminals and health risks. But let most of them in. We have plenty of room. And furthermore it’s our moral duty- not to these poor people but to our ancestors who set up this greatest nation ever as a refuge, a “New World” where all are welcome to come and start a new life in freedom: this is our whole purpose for being a nation in the first place.
3. As for those already here without papers, I say they should be given a fine and then be allowed to stay with legal status. But they should never be allowed to vote throughout their lives. If there are some Democrats who want to bring these folks in to vote Democrat, I’m not interested in that sort of game.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don’t know enough about immigration to provide an informed opinion, but from what I have gleaned it seems those on the right are blissfully unaware of point 1 or choose to disregard it because it's convenient for their position.
timschochet
Footballguy
I wouldn’t call those who oppose undocumented immigration being “on the right”. It so happens that currently Republicans tend to be more nativist than Democrat but it’s not a conservative position. Ronald Reagan had a decidedly opposite view on this issue than does Donald Trump.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Just because there is no legal process for them to cross the southern border doesn't give them permission to do it. We cannot just cross into Canada.
MAC_32
Footballguy
The desperate do not decision make with such a process in mind. If we actually want to solve the problem then we must adapt our policies with the realities that exist at that border. Otherwise, the problem will persist no matter who is in power and the types of issues will just swing based on whether it's red or blue.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Yet you continue flooding the thread until you have the last word with everyone........
Sand
Footballguy
Stoneworker
Footballguy
You're 100% correct that Reagan had the correct views on immigration.
“But the simple truth is that we’ve lost control of our own borders, and no nation can do that and survive.”
“The ongoing migration of persons to the United States in violation of our laws is a serious national problem detrimental to the interests of the United States.”
https://quotefancy.com/quote/903360/Ronald-Reagan-But-the-simple-truth-is-that-we-ve-lost-control-of-our-own-borders-and-no
https://www.azquotes.com/quote/541039#:~:text=persons to...-,The ongoing migration of persons to the United States in,interests of the United States.
Sand
Footballguy
Huge item here - DHS deletes announcement of terrorist apprehended at border.
Makes all the sense in the world. Continuation of the sordid cover up at the border. Desperation not to connect the issues at the border with actual national security - then there would be a logical thread that backs up the "we must secure our border". Can't have that, thus the current cover up.
This is the most dishonest, secretive administration I've ever seen in their first few months. Maybe the American people would want to know we have terrorists infiltrating through the southern border? Instead, we have the Ministry of State Security deciding what we should know about this crisis.
Makes all the sense in the world. Continuation of the sordid cover up at the border. Desperation not to connect the issues at the border with actual national security - then there would be a logical thread that backs up the "we must secure our border". Can't have that, thus the current cover up.
This is the most dishonest, secretive administration I've ever seen in their first few months. Maybe the American people would want to know we have terrorists infiltrating through the southern border? Instead, we have the Ministry of State Security deciding what we should know about this crisis.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes. His solution to these problems was to give amnesty to those who were here without documents. And his last speech before leaving office was filled with praise for those who came here without documents.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
This is a weak attempt to link Reagan's support of a path to citizenship to your own bizarre open border philosophy...while simultaneously denouncing conservatives in the PSF as being hypocritical to their own heritage.
Please stop trying to ride Reagan's coattails.
Reagan generally welcomed immigrants, believed they are the foundation of this country's success and that those who were already here deserved citizenship. That's awesome.
But once "undocumenteds" already here were granted amnesty, Reagan supported secure borders (i.e. 0% tolerance for illegal crossings) and a thoughtfully controlled admittance policy moving forward.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I can't speak for others, but I saw where the link was going and didn't bother clicking, so not much to comment on. Not sure what reaction you guys were expecting that you didn't get.
I think the wall was a dumb idea then, and it's a dumb idea now. I don't care if it came from the previous administration or somebody in the current one.
Insein
Footballguy
Something like this would have sufficed. Ignoring that the Biden Admin basically agreed with part of Trump's policy would have been unusual for this place.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure what you guys want said? It was dumb when Trump proposed it and it's dumb now
It doesn't address the core problem and only somewhat addresses one of the symptoms sort of. What exactly are you expecting from those that realize this?
ETA: Nevermind....KP addressed it.
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Summer Wheat
Footballguy
It is not a totally right-left problem. I know many Dems who are against what is going on now at the border and many are hispanic. People can be Dems and for a strong border.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I think we need another 6 million page thread on border wall outrage.Not sure what you guys want said? It was dumb when Trump proposed it and it's dumb now
What exactly are you expecting from those that realize this?
ETA: Nevermind....KP addressed it.
I'll feel satisfied then when I see the 24/7 posts on how the border wall is racist - WHILE A DEMOCRAT IS PRESIDENT.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Were people saying that the wall was racist, or just a dumb idea and a waste of time and resources?I think we need another 6 million page thread on border wall outrage.
I'll feel satisfied then when I see the 24/7 posts on how the border wall is racist - WHILE A DEMOCRAT IS PRESIDENT.
djmich
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I was just assuming since this is the FBG Political forum. Maybe some of the conservative old timers in here can weigh in on this.
Update: Looks like @djmich weighed in and confirmed it.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I am curious - who exactly?
Also, were they claiming that the building of the wall was racist, or that it was an extension of he who can't be named around here's policies and rhetoric - which they thought was racist?
djmich
Footballguy
Like everyone, where you been the last five years KP? And why are you questioning my lived experience
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-biden-trumps-border-wall.amp
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/south-texas-officials-sue-to-block-trump-s-racist-border-wall
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/aug/24/john-oliver-trump-border-wall-stupider-than-i-thought-was-possible
I would appreciate a few links to back up your unfounded claims that
its dumb
its a waste of time
its a waste of resources
and compare and contrast those articles with Biden’s potential reasoning for restarting building elements of the wall
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I don't think people appreciate the bubble that I live in when it comes to news, media, etc.. I was just curious what you were talking about.djmich said:Like everyone, where you been the last five years KP? And why are you questioning my lived experience
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/omar-biden-trumps-border-wall.amp
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/south-texas-officials-sue-to-block-trump-s-racist-border-wall
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/aug/24/john-oliver-trump-border-wall-stupider-than-i-thought-was-possible
I would appreciate a few links to back up your unfounded claims that
its dumb
its a waste of time
its a waste of resources
and compare and contrast those articles with Biden’s potential reasoning for restarting building elements of the wall
I should have been clearer - those bolded were my opinions that I thought were shared by others around here.
The Commish
Footballguy
Would it be possible for me to get a link to the first 6 million page thread? I missed that one and the search function sucks. I'll meet you in the middle and give this administration the same attention on this subject that I gave the last one. Fair? I'll also give the posters defending this approach now the same attention I have them under the last administration. Fair?BladeRunner said:I think we need another 6 million page thread on border wall outrage.
I'll feel satisfied then when I see the 24/7 posts on how the border wall is racist - WHILE A DEMOCRAT IS PRESIDENT.
Pretty much sums up my position here. A wall isn't going to fix any of the core issues and is a complete waste of time/money when compared to things that would actually go towards fixing the core issues.The Commish said:Not sure what you guys want said? It was dumb when Trump proposed it and it's dumb now
What exactly are you expecting from those that realize this?
The Commish
Footballguy
I think I am comfortable in saying I do. Pretty sure I live in the same one which is why we struggle in these threads. We are on the outside looking in when it comes to media consumption and what passes for "news".
timschochet
Footballguy
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
A record setting March!
WASHINGTON – The U.S. government picked up nearly 19,000 children traveling alone across the Mexican border in March, authorities said Thursday, the largest monthly number ever recorded in history and a major test for President Joe Biden as he reversed many of his predecessor’s hardline immigration tactics.
A complex mix of factors in the United States and Central America drove the increase. It has coincided with the Biden administration’s decision to exempt unaccompanied children from pandemic-related powers to immediately expel most people from the country without giving them an opportunity to seek asylum. Children are instead released to “sponsors” in the U.S., usually parents or close relatives, while being allowed to pursue their cases in heavily backlogged immigration courts.
March’s count was roughly double the 9,457 unaccompanied kids encountered by CBP in February and more than five times the tally of 3,221 in March 2020.
The huge increase in children traveling alone — some as young as 3 — and families has severely strained border holding facilities, which aren’t allowed to hold people for more than three days but often do. It’s left the government scrambling to find space and hire staff to care for children longer term until they can be placed with sponsors.
WASHINGTON – The U.S. government picked up nearly 19,000 children traveling alone across the Mexican border in March, authorities said Thursday, the largest monthly number ever recorded in history and a major test for President Joe Biden as he reversed many of his predecessor’s hardline immigration tactics.
A complex mix of factors in the United States and Central America drove the increase. It has coincided with the Biden administration’s decision to exempt unaccompanied children from pandemic-related powers to immediately expel most people from the country without giving them an opportunity to seek asylum. Children are instead released to “sponsors” in the U.S., usually parents or close relatives, while being allowed to pursue their cases in heavily backlogged immigration courts.
March’s count was roughly double the 9,457 unaccompanied kids encountered by CBP in February and more than five times the tally of 3,221 in March 2020.
The huge increase in children traveling alone — some as young as 3 — and families has severely strained border holding facilities, which aren’t allowed to hold people for more than three days but often do. It’s left the government scrambling to find space and hire staff to care for children longer term until they can be placed with sponsors.
The Commish
Footballguy
This does not compute. If you listen to the versions some here are selling, the border is completely open and people are just coming and going as they please. What is this "picking up" you speak of?
And I'll say again...the bold is the problem...until that's solved, none of the symptom attention is going to amount to anything meaningful. Get more facilities, more lawyers and more judges on our border to process people to greatly reduce the strain.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Or, we believe that we live in a nation of law. I feel sorry for the extremely difficult like that many human beings face around the globe. That doesn’t mean that we should should open the borders. Just because you don’t like the laws doesn’t give you the right to ignore the laws.
They'd be smart to continue the walls, try to keep it out of the news and call them fences or something. Contracts are already in place. Trump did all the hard work.
Link? Because I suspect that's a figure of your overactive imagination.This does not compute. If you listen to the versions some here are selling, the border is completely open and people are just coming and going as they please. What is this "picking up" you speak of?
And I'll say again...the bold is the problem...until that's solved, none of the symptom attention is going to amount to anything meaningful. Get more facilities, more lawyers and more judges on our border to process people to greatly reduce the strain.
MAC_32
Footballguy
There is a middle ground between open and closed borders, but we as a country refuse to try to collaborate based on the realities that exist on that border and define it. Til then the desperate are going to do what is in the best interests of their family.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is not a problem that began in January 2021. This has been going on for decades. This simple minded thought process is one reason this problem won't be solved though.We? Biden has control of all three branches right now.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Wouldn't that be legal immigration? If no, just curious about your thoughts on middle ground.
GoBirds
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
The graphs have been updated for March. CBP says it sees no sign of it slowing down.
To the moon!
LMAO at everyone that said this happens every year. It's been going on for decades!
O/U April numbers? 210K or so?
To the moon!
LMAO at everyone that said this happens every year. It's been going on for decades!
O/U April numbers? 210K or so?
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A simple minded action, EO 13993, set the match to this dumpster fire.
Who is the AFT? He can't string three letters together let alone three words.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
In some form it has been going on for decades but with Biden reversing an order without any kind of plan in place was a recipe for disaster, That is the difference between campaigning and governing.
Do your homework on what the situation might become, then be prepared, put a plan in place even it takes 6 months or a year. Biden was so eager to overturn EOs he did none of that. What is going on now is a humanitarian disaster caused by lack of preparation and foresight, and quite frankly stupidity.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Agreed, said as much last month. That doesn't solve the problem though. Which is really all I'm interested in.
The Commish
Footballguy
Wrong thread for you then. I haven't found much other than "sides" bickering in this thread. No one wants to talk about the solutions because, well, I guess doing so doesn't provide much to bicker over. It's a rather simple approach that is required. But it takes a ton of neglected resources and new resources to be addressed.
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