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Kamala Harris' border crisis. Biden put her in charge.


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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Sorry...was out all day putting a “portable” basketball hoop up.

See my reply above.  That is a failure of the administration.

It’s a hard problem. They’ll do their best to fix it. It may be ultimately beyond their control but we’ll see. 
The important thing, to me, is that they’re not deliberately trying to separate families, and that they’re not deliberately trying to cage children. I can forgive honest errors; I can’t forgive evil intent. 

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25 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s a hard problem. They’ll do their best to fix it. It may be ultimately beyond their control but we’ll see. 
The important thing, to me, is that they’re not deliberately trying to separate families, and that they’re not deliberately trying to cage children. I can forgive honest errors; I can’t forgive evil intent. 

Neither did Trump. 

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Just now, Insein said:

Neither did Trump. 

I don’t believe that. Everything I’ve read indicates that he deliberately tried to separate families and cage children, that he and Stephen Miller planned it out in order to dissuade more people from coming here. That’s based on reporting I find reputable from the New York Times and Washington Post. But if you have contradictory evidence I’d love to see it. I don’t like thinking the worst of people. 

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t believe that. Everything I’ve read indicates that he deliberately tried to separate families and cage children, that he and Stephen Miller planned it out in order to dissuade more people from coming here. That’s based on reporting I find reputable from the New York Times and Washington Post. But if you have contradictory evidence I’d love to see it. I don’t like thinking the worst of people. 

Then you need to read more unbiased sources. 

https://www.immigrationreform.com/2020/10/22/migrant-children-separated-media-immigrationreform-com/

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5 minutes ago, Insein said:

So here we have some problems. 
 

The first problem is that the article you posted was an opinion piece written by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) which has been categorized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group, with close ties to white supremacists. I’m forced to reject any “news”  from this source. But even if you don’t accept the SPLC description, surely you can determine for yourself, by reading the article, that it’s not a news source but instead making an argument, and any argument that begins by attacking the “mainstream media” and liberals can hardly be called an “unbiased source” as you just did. 
 

But- lest I be accused of simply attacking the source, let’s examine the argument that it makes and see if it agrees with your assertion  that Trump didn’t deliberately attempt to separate families: in fact it does not. It acknowledges that this was Trump’s plan. The only argument it attempts to make is that smugglers and the undocumented immigrants themselves are as much to blame for the calamity that occurred as Trump was. Well, maybe so, maybe not. I am willing to acknowledge that they deserve at least SOME of the responsibility as well. But that doesn’t excuse Trump’s actions, nor does it back up your assertion. In fact it does the opposite. The article details Trump’s plan, and his intent, though it appears to celebrate these (which makes me suspect that the SPLC designation of FAIR as a hate group is pretty accurate.) 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

It’s a hard problem. They’ll do their best to fix it. It may be ultimately beyond their control but we’ll see. 
The important thing, to me, is that they’re not deliberately trying to separate families, and that they’re not deliberately trying to cage children. I can forgive honest errors; I can’t forgive evil intent. 

The Daily podcast yesterday had good coverage on the first part of this.

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So here we have some problems. 
 

The first problem is that the article you posted was an opinion piece written by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) which has been categorized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group, with close ties to white supremacists. I’m forced to reject any “news”  from this source. But even if you don’t accept the SPLC description, surely you can determine for yourself, by reading the article, that it’s not a news source but instead making an argument, and any argument that begins by attacking the “mainstream media” and liberals can hardly be called an “unbiased source” as you just did. 
 

But- lest I be accused of simply attacking the source, let’s examine the argument that it makes and see if it agrees with your assertion  that Trump didn’t deliberately attempt to separate families: in fact it does not. It acknowledges that this was Trump’s plan. The only argument it attempts to make is that smugglers and the undocumented immigrants themselves are as much to blame for the calamity that occurred as Trump was. Well, maybe so, maybe not. I am willing to acknowledge that they deserve at least SOME of the responsibility as well. But that doesn’t excuse Trump’s actions, nor does it back up your assertion. In fact it does the opposite. The article details Trump’s plan, and his intent, though it appears to celebrate these (which makes me suspect that the SPLC designation of FAIR as a hate group is pretty accurate.) 

The article is backed but verifiable facts linked in the paragraphs. Every child that was separated and parents could be identified was returned to them. All the cases where the parent could not be identified in the country of origin or the parent didn't accept their return are the ones that remained detained and eventually assimilated into the country based on the laws.  

No this was not a malicious attempt to inflict pain and suffering on families. This was an effort to curtail illegal entry into our country. They didn't put kids in cages. They detained them in the same facilities that you see Biden putting thousands in today. You can't say he's doing it differently because he's doing the same separating. He just has the media to cover for him. The only difference is that he's not sending people away. He's letting them all through. Most without proper checks for disease or criminal backgrounds.

If that's not the case, we'd love to hear from Biden or the administration on the topic.

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6 hours ago, Insein said:

The article is backed but verifiable facts linked in the paragraphs. Every child that was separated and parents could be identified was returned to them. All the cases where the parent could not be identified in the country of origin or the parent didn't accept their return are the ones that remained detained and eventually assimilated into the country based on the laws.  

No this was not a malicious attempt to inflict pain and suffering on families. This was an effort to curtail illegal entry into our country. They didn't put kids in cages. They detained them in the same facilities that you see Biden putting thousands in today. You can't say he's doing it differently because he's doing the same separating. He just has the media to cover for him. The only difference is that he's not sending people away. He's letting them all through. Most without proper checks for disease or criminal backgrounds.

If that's not the case, we'd love to hear from Biden or the administration on the topic.

:lol: one of those links are to a Twitter post.  Some of you are really getting out there with where you are getting your info.  

Edited by KarmaPolice
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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

It’s a hard problem. They’ll do their best to fix it. It may be ultimately beyond their control but we’ll see. 
The important thing, to me, is that they’re not deliberately trying to separate families, and that they’re not deliberately trying to cage children. I can forgive honest errors; I can’t forgive evil intent. 

 Beyond their control?

Honest errors?

We are talking about turning loose people that are here illegally without even testing them for Covid 

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t believe that. Everything I’ve read indicates that he deliberately tried to separate families and cage children, that he and Stephen Miller planned it out in order to dissuade more people from coming here. That’s based on reporting I find reputable from the New York Times and Washington Post. But if you have contradictory evidence I’d love to see it. I don’t like thinking the worst of people. 

So you're going to believe two very liberal anti Trump newspapers tell you how Trump was thinking when it came to this.

You know how I say, often, that I believe you are one of those that are easily manipulated by the media?  Well this is a great example.

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

It’s a hard problem. They’ll do their best to fix it. It may be ultimately beyond their control but we’ll see. 
The important thing, to me, is that they’re not deliberately trying to separate families, and that they’re not deliberately trying to cage children. I can forgive honest errors; I can’t forgive evil intent. 

Deliberately?   Even if they do it?     You realize it's the same people who handle families and children now  as during Trump.

But you think they are good now cuz Biden is a really nice guy.

I wouldn't  call that a moronic position.   It's not consistent, but it is convenient. 

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32 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

So you're going to believe two very liberal anti Trump newspapers tell you how Trump was thinking when it came to this.

You know how I say, often, that I believe you are one of those that are easily manipulated by the media?  Well this is a great example.

This is the disconnect, but its also been done to death around here too.  

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1 hour ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

 Beyond their control?

Honest errors?

We are talking about turning loose people that are here illegally without even testing them for Covid 

I wonder if releasing illegal immigrants into American communities who've tested positive for covid would be considered "evil intent". 

Or canceling the remain in Mexico policy. You know, the one where over 800 people have now crossed somewhere into America. Oh, there were covid positive people in that camp. 

I guess super spreading events that could result in America deaths was only important for Trump. I call those actions evil intent.

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1 hour ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

 Beyond their control?

Honest errors?

We are talking about turning loose people that are here illegally without even testing them for Covid 

Not what I was referring to but let’s discuss it. 

First off I wouldn’t do it. I’ve been pretty clear that public health risks should not be allowed in the country. 
Second, this is a complete non story, because you’re talking about a few thousand people overall who may have Covid being allowed to come here. The USA continues to average 50,000 new Covid cases a day! So the amount that are turned loose are completely insignificant at this point. 

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

So you're going to believe two very liberal anti Trump newspapers tell you how Trump was thinking when it came to this.

You know how I say, often, that I believe you are one of those that are easily manipulated by the media?  Well this is a great example.

Yes I believe those sources. But in this case I don’t need them, because I’ve heard Donald Trump speak about his intent regarding this subject, amd Stephen Miller as well. 

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1 hour ago, quick-hands said:

Deliberately?   Even if they do it?     You realize it's the same people who handle families and children now  as during Trump.

But you think they are good now cuz Biden is a really nice guy.

I wouldn't  call that a moronic position.   It's not consistent, but it is convenient. 

Obviously the policy is different now because otherwise conservatives wouldn’t be complaining. 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Yes I believe those sources. But in this case I don’t need them, because I’ve heard Donald Trump speak about his intent regarding this subject, amd Stephen Miller as well. 

.

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16 hours ago, The Commish said:

So what persons would you not allow for consideration?

I don't know the immigration laws well enough.  I'd leave the decision on what the quotas are to people who have a better understanding.  I just know, that allowing an unlimited amount of people into the country is not something that the US could sustain without crashing the system.  There are a finite number of jobs, schools, etc.    

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34 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Not what I was referring to but let’s discuss it. 

First off I wouldn’t do it. I’ve been pretty clear that public health risks should not be allowed in the country. 
Second, this is a complete non story, because you’re talking about a few thousand people overall who may have Covid being allowed to come here. The USA continues to average 50,000 new Covid cases a day! So the amount that are turned loose are completely insignificant at this point. 

Lmao

If you or I fly to Mexico for a weekend we need to pass a Covid test or we aren’t allowed to come home. But of course you have no problem with the people coming here illegally not needing to take one

Of course 

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23 hours ago, The Commish said:

For others in the "come here legally" crowd....do you support legislation that would fund the consideration of any person to come here by legal means?

 

10 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

I don't know the immigration laws well enough.  I'd leave the decision on what the quotas are to people who have a better understanding.  I just know, that allowing an unlimited amount of people into the country is not something that the US could sustain without crashing the system.  There are a finite number of jobs, schools, etc.    

I'm not sure why you're replying to my posts then.  At no point have I begun discussion of the quantity of people.  I quoted the question I posed initially.  Perhaps you didn't read it or don't understand what I am trying to say, but it has nothing to do with quotas rather what qualifies a person for consideration to come here by legal means.

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1 minute ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Lmao

If you or I fly to Mexico for a weekend we need to pass a Covid test or we aren’t allowed to come home. But of course you have no problem with the people coming here illegally not needing to take one

Of course 

I didn’t say that. I said it’s an extremely minor issue. 

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13 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

  I just know, that allowing an unlimited amount of people into the country is not something that the US could sustain without crashing the system.  There are a finite number of jobs, schools, etc.    

While you’re correct about “unlimited”, how much we can take in is certainly open to debate. Personally I don’t think we’re close to being full. There will be plenty of room for decades to come even if we let everyone coming to our borders in. 

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Obviously the policy is different now because otherwise conservatives wouldn’t be complaining. 

Conservatives are complaining about the numbers. They went from allowing only 800 illegal entries a day and is now up to 6000 a day. 

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

While you’re correct about “unlimited”, how much we can take in is certainly open to debate. Personally I don’t think we’re close to being full. There will be plenty of room for decades to come even if we let everyone coming to our borders in. 

California has plenty of space and resources. 

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13 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Lmao

If you or I fly to Mexico for a weekend we need to pass a Covid test or we aren’t allowed to come home. But of course you have no problem with the people coming here illegally not needing to take one

Of course 

"Covid bad unless it's inconvenient to my talking points. Then it's insignificant."

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9 hours ago, Insein said:

The article is backed but verifiable facts linked in the paragraphs. Every child that was separated and parents could be identified was returned to them. All the cases where the parent could not be identified in the country of origin or the parent didn't accept their return are the ones that remained detained and eventually assimilated into the country based on the laws.  

No this was not a malicious attempt to inflict pain and suffering on families. This was an effort to curtail illegal entry into our country. They didn't put kids in cages. They detained them in the same facilities that you see Biden putting thousands in today. You can't say he's doing it differently because he's doing the same separating. He just has the media to cover for him. The only difference is that he's not sending people away. He's letting them all through. Most without proper checks for disease or criminal backgrounds.

If that's not the case, we'd love to hear from Biden or the administration on the topic.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/12/11/immigrant-advocates-cant-locate-parents-separated-border-children/3896940001/

As of December at least 628 were not able to be located.

And Biden has not been separating them...have they? (we can probably agree that administration has done poorly on the intake thus far and dealing with what should have been expected influx but they seem unprepared for it)   But yes, you can say things are a little different as they were different between Obama and Trump as people were always mixing up unaccompanied minors to separating families.  Not just as policy but as an actual practice.  (you can also read Sessions pretty callous remarks about separating families in there)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44303556

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

It also seems to be working in the reverse in this thread too.  

I've always maintained that Covid was overblown. I believe CBfan is using it to point out hypocrisy.

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30 minutes ago, timschochet said:

While you’re correct about “unlimited”, how much we can take in is certainly open to debate. Personally I don’t think we’re close to being full. There will be plenty of room for decades to come even if we let everyone coming to our borders in. 

We aren't keeping up numbers in this country simply with births.  Quantity of people is WAY down the list of things that should impact immigration counts IMO.  

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22 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Tell that to the people that live in the towns that these people are being dumped in

Hopefully you have the same concerns about people from the States who are opening up without restrictions coming to your town.

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10 minutes ago, Insein said:

I've always maintained that Covid was overblown. I believe CBfan is using it to point out hypocrisy.

Seems to then also mean there is hypocrisy the other way.  People believing it was overblown but are now complaining about it with immigration.

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7 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Seems to then also mean there is hypocrisy the other way.  People believing it was overblown but are now complaining about it with immigration.

I said disease. I didn't say Covid. 

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12 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Seems to then also mean there is hypocrisy the other way.  People believing it was overblown but are now complaining about it with immigration.

I’ve seen plenty on both sides when discussing the two - and you’re right.  

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Not what I was referring to but let’s discuss it. 

First off I wouldn’t do it. I’ve been pretty clear that public health risks should not be allowed in the country. 
Second, this is a complete non story, because you’re talking about a few thousand people overall who may have Covid being allowed to come here. The USA continues to average 50,000 new Covid cases a day! So the amount that are turned loose are completely insignificant at this point. 

This is outstanding news, it gets us closer to herd immunity.  

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40 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Hopefully you have the same concerns about people from the States who are opening up without restrictions coming to your town.

Have I ever posted anything that would make you think I wouldn’t?

I wear a mask everywhere. My temp is taken every morning before work 

My wife and I gave a trip planned to Cancun in a few months. We have to pay for and pass a test to be able to go back to our home. No problem. 

Why aren’t  the people coming here illegally being tested before being dumped in our towns?

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5 hours ago, timschochet said:

Obviously the policy is different now because otherwise conservatives wouldn’t be complaining. 

But the unaccompanied  children  are ending up in cages.   

But the guards feel worse because Biden told them to.   So that'd better.    

Wonderful.

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5 hours ago, timschochet said:

While you’re correct about “unlimited”, how much we can take in is certainly open to debate. Personally I don’t think we’re close to being full. There will be plenty of room for decades to come even if we let everyone coming to our borders in. 

What are you basing this opinion on?  Number of jobs available?  Number of schools with open seats?  Or are you just stating an opinion with no factual backing?

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On 3/9/2021 at 12:21 PM, supermike80 said:

LOL so you see long lines as immigration rules being enforced?? Thats your benchmark? 

I’m always open to being persuaded that my view is incorrect.  If the policy is open borders, why is immigration checking the citizenship status of every vehicle that enters the United States?  

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  • NorvilleBarnes changed the title to Kamala Harris' border crisis. Biden put her in charge.

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