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Derek Chauvin trial. Death of George Floyd. Guilty on all counts.


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4 minutes ago, Dennis Castro said:

And I can’t believe that Donald Williams II’s MMA ‘expertise’ wasn’t vetted by the defense. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  

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On 3/27/2021 at 10:14 AM, shadrap said:

it's 25 minutes but it's the entire video of George's arrest up until he is in ambulance.  Probably worth a look if we are going to discuss.  Correction: should be a required look.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/458341529

Wow..so many things on both sides that could have been different.     

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40 minutes ago, -fish- said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  

Sorry, the third witness was a bystander who just happened to be an MMA fighter and former wrestler. His testimony revolved mostly around holds, pressure points, etc. and the risks involved with certain restraint techniques. He was treated as an expert witness, though not specifically declared as such. I don’t think the defense knew he was going to testify about anything beyond being a bystander. I’m surprised they didn’t challenge the line of questioning.

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43 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Just caught the end of it.  They were talking about a previous Floyd arrest on tape a year earlier.  What was that about?

He was noncompliant during a traffic stop and darn near got himself shot for not following instructions and showing his hands.

Prosecution wanted that video to be inadmissible, but the judge will allow it.

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8 minutes ago, Dennis Castro said:

He was noncompliant during a traffic stop and darn near got himself shot for not following instructions and showing his hands.

Prosecution wanted that video to be inadmissible, but the judge will allow it.

Won`t matter in the end result.  

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1 hour ago, Summer Wheat said:

Just caught the end of it.  They were talking about a previous Floyd arrest on tape a year earlier.  What was that about?

It was an encounter that had a lot of similarities to the 2020 arrest. Not complying with LE requests, claiming he couldn't breath, acting confused and distressed, and finally ingesting drugs. He was hospitalized.

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2 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Only able to catch part of that. Very bizarre.

Can you raise your right hand. (Raises left hand)

Can you move toward the mic please? (moves away from the mic) 

Where are you from?

Arizona

What part of Arizona.

Oh you know, just  . . . Arizona

 

She sounds like a typical witness...

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1 hour ago, Dennis Castro said:

Sorry, the third witness was a bystander who just happened to be an MMA fighter and former wrestler. His testimony revolved mostly around holds, pressure points, etc. and the risks involved with certain restraint techniques. He was treated as an expert witness, though not specifically declared as such. I don’t think the defense knew he was going to testify about anything beyond being a bystander. I’m surprised they didn’t challenge the line of questioning.

Yeah normally something like that would have had to have been formally disclosed. Also, I have to imagine the defense interviewed the witness ahead of time. 

I'm typing this based only on what I've read in this thread but this issue seems genuinely strange to me. 

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38 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

It was an encounter that had a lot of similarities to the 2020 arrest. Not complying with LE requests, claiming he couldn't breath, acting confused and distressed, and finally ingesting drugs. He was hospitalized.

Was this common knowledge?  I never heard that before.

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2 hours ago, Dennis Castro said:

And I can’t believe that Donald Williams II’s MMA ‘expertise’ wasn’t vetted by the defense. 

I love how he went fishing that afternoon and then went home to suffocate the fish and  watched their eyes roll into the back of their heads. Then ironically watched GF do the same.

This whole part of the testimony seems really ironic. There is something a little too "fishy" in his story.

Then he went to the store "for some air"

Edited by glvsav37
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1 hour ago, Dennis Castro said:

Sorry, the third witness was a bystander who just happened to be an MMA fighter and former wrestler. His testimony revolved mostly around holds, pressure points, etc. and the risks involved with certain restraint techniques. He was treated as an expert witness, though not specifically declared as such. I don’t think the defense knew he was going to testify about anything beyond being a bystander. I’m surprised they didn’t challenge the line of questioning.

One of his biggest things was that he called out the hold that the officer was using by name. I think its a blood choke or something like that. I recall him saying that Chauvin did not acknowledge anyone in the crowd until that was said, implying that he realized someone knew the hold may be illegal (IDK if it was). 

If you watch the video of the event posted earlier in the thread, you can pick out this witness saying that. 

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A lot of objections from both sides this morning. Some overruled, some sustained. There were a lot of instructions from the judge to the MMA witness on how to answer. and a lot of instructions to the jury about responses to disregard. A lot of side bars. Everyone was calm but it sort of seemed chaotic.

Next four jurors won't be on video and names not broadcast due to their (young) age.

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  • NorvilleBarnes changed the title to Derek Chauvin trial. Death of George Floyd. Witness testimony.
3 hours ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

I had to stop watching after about a half hour. The defense's arguments were so ridiculous and insanely dumb I couldn't keep watching without getting angry.

What are they "arguing" at this point? My understanding is that we're into witness testimony. 

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The MMA guy says he called the police on the police because he believed he was witnessing a murder.

The EMT lady said she wanted to help Floyd but was prevented from doing so.

 

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1 minute ago, the moops said:

What was the defense attorney's line of thinking in trying to portray the MMA guy as some super angry black dude?

I think they are going for the narrative that the officers didn’t move because they were scared of the crowd.  I do t get it really either.  

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1 hour ago, zoonation said:

Finally the defense objects to one of the ridiculous leading questions.  way too late though.

I’m no lawyer, but I’ve watched enough law and order :oldunsure: to know that some of this testimony should not be allowed 

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19 minutes ago, the moops said:

What was the defense attorney's line of thinking in trying to portray the MMA guy as some super angry black dude?

Again, I’m no lawyer, but it seems this defense  attorney is .... not good

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3 hours ago, Zow said:

What are they "arguing" at this point? My understanding is that we're into witness testimony. 

The defense lawyer was questioning the black MMA fighter who was a witness. All of his questions had absolutely nothing to do with the case, just bull#### about what kind of chokehold the guy called it and the fact that he was angry at the cops because he was watching a ####### murder happen in broad daylight. I shut it off at the point where the MMA fighter was forced to give yes/no answers to the lawyer asking him about what specific words he was using to call the cops.

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1 hour ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I’m no lawyer, but I’ve watched enough law and order :oldunsure: to know that some of this testimony should not be allowed 

Yeah you'd probably have a better gauge at what is admissible if you had not watched Law and Order. That show's portrayal of the applications of the rules of evidence and procedure is awful. 

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3 hours ago, zoonation said:

this lawyer is terrible.

Who is his lawyer?

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All of the prosecution's witnesses so far stink of being coached. IDK if thats normal but there is def a script here. 

Edited by glvsav37
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2 hours ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

The defense lawyer was questioning the black MMA fighter who was a witness. All of his questions had absolutely nothing to do with the case, just bull#### about what kind of chokehold the guy called it and the fact that he was angry at the cops because he was watching a ####### murder happen in broad daylight. I shut it off at the point where the MMA fighter was forced to give yes/no answers to the lawyer asking him about what specific words he was using to call the cops.

IDK seems to me the defense was trying establish that one choke hold effects the trachea (which would stop breathing) vs the blood choke hold (as the witness called it earlier) where the pressure is on the sides/arteries and the windpipe is not effected. 

Also, forcing him to the Yes/No put him in a combative stance with the attorney and judge trying to knock him off his script. He painted himself into a corner when he was answering the defense attorney's questions with his own questions like "well if thats what the video shows?" "well if thats what you heard?" You could see in his face that he was getting angry, flustered and less "likable." 
 

One thing I heard which I made a note of was that the defense asked him a few times if he, or anyone he fought had ever passed out and then woke up and wanted to keep fighting. To which he said that he did. I think they were trying to establish a reason for staying in the maneuver past the point of death (or what they thought was passed out). 

Edited by glvsav37
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2 hours ago, the moops said:

What was the defense attorney's line of thinking in trying to portray the MMA guy as some super angry black dude?

First, I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not as smart as anyone involved in the trial (except the witnesses) - so this is pure speculation on my part.

My GUESS (based on his questions with the MMA guy and others) is that he was trying to do 3 things.

1. Generally discredit/embarrass the MMA guy.

2. Establish overall that the crowd was hostile/angry and a huge distraction for Chauvin to properly assess Floyd condition.

3. Establish that the MMA chokes required a tap out (due to inability to speak) while showing Floyd speaking throughout.

3b also getting in there for the record that people revived from a black out can come back fighting.

 

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1 hour ago, Zow said:

Who is his lawyer?

I meant the lawyer for the prosecution who was leading the direct of the firefighter.  Terrible.  I was surprised.  And also surprised that the defence waited so long to object to ridiculously leading questions. I don’t know if that is something that is tolerated more in America but in Canada any competent counsel would have been objecting the entire time.  

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1 hour ago, Zow said:

Yeah you'd probably have a better gauge at what is admissible if you had not watched Law and Order. That show's portrayal of the applications of the rules of evidence and procedure is awful. 

withdrawn! nothing further

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19 minutes ago, joffer said:

withdrawn! nothing further

There’s a lawyer who is my opposing counsel on a pretty regular basis that ####### does this - basically asks the one question too many that’s clearly argumentative. It drives me nuts and I want to scream “this isn’t law and order!”

Odd thing is the guy’s cross examination skills and questions leading up to his inevitable argumentative question are quite sound and often very impactful. Zero clue why he then decides to ask the final :rolleyes: question that he has to know any decent attorney will object to. It almost always annoys judges when he does it too. 

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That EMT testimony seemed very powerful.  Also, seen in that video posted earlier.  She is clearly pleading to help and the cops just ignore her. So sad and his death was so avoidable.  

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58 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

That EMT testimony seemed very powerful.  Also, seen in that video posted earlier.  She is clearly pleading to help and the cops just ignore her. So sad and his death was so avoidable.  

she was great

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This morning's witness was the guy working in Cup Foods and included the video from inside the store. Gotta say, no matter what you think of George Floyd it's surreal and heart breaking watching him wander around the store talking to people and laughing, knowing this is his last day alive.

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From the New York Times

"The 12 jury members and two alternates in the Derek Chauvin trial remain anonymous, and their faces can't be shown on camera. Here's what we do know about them."

:hot:

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1 hour ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

From the New York Times

"The 12 jury members and two alternates in the Derek Chauvin trial remain anonymous, and their faces can't be shown on camera. Here's what we do know about them."

:hot:

they're all eukaryotic deuterostomes

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I don’t really see what there is to argue here.  Cops are not and should never be judge, jury, and executioner.  There were 4 of them against one unarmed man, the actions were completely uncalled for. 

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17 minutes ago, bigmarc27 said:

I don’t really see what there is to argue here.  Cops are not and should never be judge, jury, and executioner.  There were 4 of them against one unarmed man, the actions were completely uncalled for. 

An unarmed man, handcuffed, laying motionless, while denying medical assistance. 

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I feel sorry for the young lady who shot the video. She seems to be struggling with guilt about not getting involved physically to try to save Floyd’s life.

Edited by Yenrub
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Posted (edited)

Very emotional day. Next witness (61 year old bystander) broke down crying so much they called a recess.

Another witness the defense did not cross examine.

Edited by NorvilleBarnes
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20 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

All of the prosecution's witnesses so far stink of being coached. IDK if thats normal but there is def a script here. 

Ask @Zow to be sure ... but I don't think witnesses in a big case** typically wing their testimony. Why wouldn't they be coached and practice beforehand?

** probably not even in small cases

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The body camera footage was tough to watch. Approaching Floyd with gun drawn obviously triggered a panic attack and put him into a mental health crisis. The officers only know brute force, so they revert to that, and George Floyd is dead in short order. Brutal. 

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:

Ask @Zow to be sure ... but I don't think witnesses in a big case** typically wing their testimony. Why wouldn't they be coached and practice beforehand?

** probably not even in small cases

I get you. And I kinda of assume they are. These just seem very transparent to me and i'm surprised the defense isnt calling it out more (but what do I know, i'm not a lawyer) 

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46 minutes ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

The body camera footage was tough to watch. Approaching Floyd with gun drawn obviously triggered a panic attack and put him into a mental health crisis. The officers only know brute force, so they revert to that, and George Floyd is dead in short order. Brutal. 

I had it on but the sound was muted so I know I missed some important dialog. That said they seemed to have Floyd under control and in handcuffs for a very long time. They put the cuffs on him at his car, walked him over to the side of the building where they sat him down on the ground and he seemed to be answering questions. Then they walked him across the street to the where he eventually died.

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  • NorvilleBarnes changed the title to Derek Chauvin trial. Death of George Floyd. Guilty on all counts.

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