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Derek Chauvin trial. Death of George Floyd. Guilty on all counts.


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20 hours ago, Zow said:

There’s a lawyer who is my opposing counsel on a pretty regular basis that ####### does this - basically asks the one question too many that’s clearly argumentative. It drives me nuts and I want to scream “this isn’t law and order!”

Odd thing is the guy’s cross examination skills and questions leading up to his inevitable argumentative question are quite sound and often very impactful. Zero clue why he then decides to ask the final :rolleyes: question that he has to know any decent attorney will object to. It almost always annoys judges when he does it too. 

Because he’s not doing it for you. It’s for a jury. People are really really dumb, and especially in this age of noise, need to be bludgeoned with the point. 

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1 hour ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

The body camera footage was tough to watch. Approaching Floyd with gun drawn obviously triggered a panic attack and put him into a mental health crisis. The officers only know brute force, so they revert to that, and George Floyd is dead in short order. Brutal. 

Unbelievable. When he’s in the car and they are aggressive and draw a gun, 100% justified. He’s not following orders and it’s hard to see what he’s doing with his hands. We all know that’s the most dangerous moment for a police officer, and at that point I’m 100% with the cops.   Right up until he’s in cuffs and a threat to absolutely no one. Everything thereafter is criminal. 

Edited by Otis
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1 hour ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

:shrug: I wanted to save the mods the trouble of moving it once the discussion started.

The fact that racism is a political issue in this country is really sad. 

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2 hours ago, Otis said:

Because he’s not doing it for you. It’s for a jury. People are really really dumb, and especially in this age of noise, need to be bludgeoned with the point. 

These are bench trials. 

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Morries Lester Hall, George Floyd's friend and the front passenger in the car during arrest, has notified Hennepin County that he will not testify as a witness and will plead the 5th if called. Hall was also in Cup Foods, and also tried to pass a counterfeit $20 (but was rejected) prior to George Floyd doing so.

Not sure what his refusal to testify will mean, if anything, to either side.

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4 hours ago, Doug B said:

Ask @Zow to be sure ... but I don't think witnesses in a big case** typically wing their testimony. Why wouldn't they be coached and practice beforehand?

** probably not even in small cases

Eh, depends on the prosecutor's style I suppose. Obviously in a serious case there will be some level of preparation. Usually that consists of merely ensuring that the witness is still going to say whatever it was he or she said initially and/or in their interviews and there will be no surprises/impeachment issues. I see the more rehearsed testimony come from prosecutors and police officers (especially in drug sales cases). 

 

I personally don't "coach" witnesses beyond what I described above in confirming their main points/stories and how to answer questions on cross-examination (short, succinct, and honest). I fear doing any more makes the testimony looked canned and therefore less credible. I will same some of my clients do not like this approach. 

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2 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Morries Lester Hall, George Floyd's friend and the front passenger in the car during arrest, has notified Hennepin County that he will not testify as a witness and will plead the 5th if called. Hall was also in Cup Foods, and also tried to pass a counterfeit $20 (but was rejected) prior to George Floyd doing so.

Not sure what his refusal to testify will mean, if anything, to either side.

Cub Foods.*

 

Also, I wouldn't mess with that Hennepin County Prosecutor's Office... :lmao: 

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22 minutes ago, Zow said:

These are bench trials. 

Some judges are dumb too.

 

So are some lawyers.

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18 minutes ago, Zow said:

Cub Foods.*

 

Also, I wouldn't mess with that Hennepin County Prosecutor's Office... :lmao: 

It is in fact Cup Foods - it's a small convenience store

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10 minutes ago, the moops said:

It is in fact Cup Foods - it's a small convenience store

Mindblown. 

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8 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

FTR: I am appalled this is on live TV, it's going to cause a lot of emotional outbursts and the media seems to want to exploit it for all they can. 

Criminal proceedings are public proceedings.*

 

*Minus a few unique exceptions.

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1 hour ago, Zow said:

Criminal proceedings are public proceedings.*

 

*Minus a few unique exceptions.

I'll speak for MoP here and if he wants to chime in, then by all means...

Most criminal proceedings also don't have nearly the potential for divisive and sensationalized coverage as this trial does. I think that's what MoP is getting at, and he's not wrong.

This has nothing to do with whether the trial should be public. Take for granted that it is, and then understand that MoP is lamenting the content of the media coverage that might flow therefrom.

Edited by rockaction
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3 hours ago, Otis said:

Unbelievable. When he’s in the car and they are aggressive and draw a gun, 100% justified. He’s not following orders and it’s hard to see what he’s doing with his hands. We all know that’s the most dangerous moment for a police officer, and at that point I’m 100% with the cops.   Right up until he’s in cuffs and a threat to absolutely no one. Everything thereafter is criminal. 

You could say “but for” Floyd resisting arrest he would be alive today, but there is another “ but for” and that  is Chavin’s continued pressure on Floyd’s neck after he was handcuffed and motionless. Therein lies the problem for Chavin.

Edited by lazyike
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1 minute ago, lazyike said:

You could say “but for” Floyd resisting arrest he would be alive today, but there is another “ but for” and that  is Chavin’s continued pressure on Floyd’s neck after he was handcuffed and motionless. Therein lies the problem for Chavin IMO.

 

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11 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

FTR: I am appalled this is on live TV, it's going to cause a lot of emotional outbursts and the media seems to want to exploit it for all they can. 

could it be that this being on "Live TV" is doing damage control before the verdict? So say the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, the media cant spin it as a "stolen verdict" as we all can watch the proceedings analyze where the prosecutor or defense changed the tide. 

I mean the media can spin anything, but if there wasn't live coverage, it would make it easy for them to weave any story they wanted.

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48 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'll speak for MoP here and if he wants to chime in, then by all means...

Most criminal proceedings also don't have nearly the potential for divisive and sensationalized coverage as this trial does. I think that's what MoP is getting at, and he's not wrong.

This has nothing to do with whether the trial should be public. Take for granted that it is, and then understand that MoP is lamenting the content of the media coverage might flow therefrom.

You're right on the money here. it's divisive and absolutely sensationalized. 

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1 hour ago, Zow said:
1 hour ago, the moops said:

It is in fact Cup Foods - it's a small convenience store

Mindblown. 

Is that like a McDowells and his golden arc’s.  

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10 hours ago, the moops said:

And the young dude who was working in the store 

“If I would’ve just not taken the bill, this could’ve been avoided,” Mr. Martin testified.

That really stood out to me in the few minutes of coverage I caught this evening. 

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8 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

You're right on the money here. it's divisive and absolutely sensationalized. 

Certainly sensationalized but then so were the Menedez brothers, OJ, Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman,  etc.

As far as being divisive who is it dividing?   

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8 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

could it be that this being on "Live TV" is doing damage control before the verdict? So say the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, the media cant spin it as a "stolen verdict" as we all can watch the proceedings analyze where the prosecutor or defense changed the tide. 

I mean the media can spin anything, but if there was live coverage, it would make it easy for them to weave any story they wanted.

This is what I'm hoping for. It's weird watching the testimony live and then seeing which parts are selected for stories and later news broadcasts. 

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13 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Morries Lester Hall, George Floyd's friend and the front passenger in the car during arrest, has notified Hennepin County that he will not testify as a witness and will plead the 5th if called. Hall was also in Cup Foods, and also tried to pass a counterfeit $20 (but was rejected) prior to George Floyd doing so.

Not sure what his refusal to testify will mean, if anything, to either side.

I’m guessing that this would be good for the prosecution as he won’t have to discuss any drugs that he and Floyd might’ve been on. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Dennis Castro said:

I’m guessing that this would be good for the prosecution as he won’t have to discuss any drugs that he and Floyd might’ve been on. 

There was plenty of that with the testimony this morning from George Floyd's girlfriend. Some discussion about the different types of drugs. One of the dealers was Morries Lester Hall, which possibly explains why he won't be testifying. Also some discussion about Floyds previous (non-fatal) overdoses. It was learned that Georges "pet name" for his girlfriend was "Mama". Another very emotional testimony with lots of tears.

Edited by NorvilleBarnes
typos and clarify gf
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15 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

As a lawyer I would actually say most lawyers are dumb

You’ll get no argument from me, counselor. 

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17 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

As a lawyer I would actually say most lawyers are dumb

I should probably feel insulted.

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Day four done and it still mostly feels like George Floyd is on trial. The two EMT medics and the shift lieutenant testified. One EMT said he thought Floyd was dead when they arrived. At one point the lieutenant said that Chauvin should have taken his knee off (paraphrasing) after Floyd was in handcuffs and had become calm. It was the first time that the focus seemed (to me) to be on Chauvin and not Floyd.

Some of the testimony just seems so long and drawn out for something that's recorded.

State: What did you say when you arrived?

EMT: I don't recall.

S: Would you like to see the tape?

E: Yes

Plays tape showing EMT asking does he have a pulse.

S: What did you say when you arrived?

E: I asked if he had a pulse.

This type of exchange was repeated many many times.

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1 hour ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Day four done and it still mostly feels like George Floyd is on trial. The two EMT medics and the shift lieutenant testified. One EMT said he thought Floyd was dead when they arrived. At one point the lieutenant said that Chauvin should have taken his knee off (paraphrasing) after Floyd was in handcuffs and had become calm. It was the first time that the focus seemed (to me) to be on Chauvin and not Floyd.

Some of the testimony just seems so long and drawn out for something that's recorded.

State: What did you say when you arrived?

EMT: I don't recall.

S: Would you like to see the tape?

E: Yes

Plays tape showing EMT asking does he have a pulse.

S: What did you say when you arrived?

E: I asked if he had a pulse.

This type of exchange was repeated many many times.

I agree with the sentiment that it feels like Floyd is the one on trail....it pisses me off!!

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On 3/31/2021 at 2:48 PM, JB Breakfast Club said:

The body camera footage was tough to watch. Approaching Floyd with gun drawn obviously triggered a panic attack and put him into a mental health crisis. The officers only know brute force, so they revert to that, and George Floyd is dead in short order. Brutal. 

That and the plethora of drugs in his system and knowing he was going to be arrested, again, for passing fake bills.  

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4 minutes ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

What's your favorite flavor of boot? 

Stop that. That's out of line and inappropriate.

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21 minutes ago, JB Breakfast Club said:

What's your favorite flavor of boot? 

Not sure what that means but, here is a study that shows 86% of repeated meth users experience paranoia and even more experience hallucinations.  Who knows how much that is magnified with fentanyl. That's the first thing that comes to my mind when hes scared out of his wits by the backseat of the cruiser.

Police acted appropriately to me up to that point, doesn't excuse the extended knee to the neck of course.  

Edited by tonydead
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On 3/31/2021 at 7:03 PM, Ministry of Pain said:

FTR: I am appalled this is on live TV, it's going to cause a lot of emotional outbursts and the media seems to want to exploit it for all they can. 

First time cameras allowed in Minnesota history?  Is that true?  

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

I agree with the sentiment that it feels like Floyd is the one on trail....it pisses me off!!

 

VIDEO: Bill Burr - no reason to hit a woman - how women argue (FULL) from You People are all the Same •Jan 29, 2016

The FULL segment about how women argue and why there's no reason to hit a woman from Bill Burr's show "You people are all the same"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ

 

******

Here's an interesting bit by Bill Burr.

He says if you take a very charged issue and you say there's no reason for it to happen, you refuse to discuss how two people actually got to that place. How can you find a solution for the issue if all you are left with is the act itself? And why can you only questions from one side?

https://youtu.be/rksKvZoUCPQ?t=334

It's easy to say Chauvin is an idiot. And if someone pointed that out to me, I wouldn't argue. If he could hide behind his agencies General Orders or his previous training or some legal distinction, there's just basic common sense.

But what's not easy to say is George Floyd was also an idiot. But he's dead! But he's black! But he was a victim! You are a racist! We need to silence you and destroy your ability to earn a living and make sure you are kneeled and beheaded after a purity test!

What you had was two idiots who got caught up in a whirlwind of utter stupidity. That being said, Chauvin actually had some legal responsibility here and duty in terms of his decision making and behavior and actions.

Cahill? Returning back to say a Third Degree murder charge is back on the books after the Minneapolis Appeals Court and the state's Supreme Court basically decided to ignore the law and give fealty to the Court Of Public Opinion because it's a media Red Ball. That's idiotic too.

Floyd has, by estimates, five children. Going around hopped up on drugs, getting in trouble with the law and committing crimes, how is that taking care of your kids? That's being an idiot. I'm sorry he died for his kids' sake but that doesn't change that reality.  Same for Kyle Rittenhouse, another idiot. Had a parent who is a single mom and two younger sisters. Who is going to care for them and stand up for them as the man of the house? Another truly idiotic decision. He might have actually operated in self defense, but did he operate in common sense? Did he operate to his duty and obligation to his family?

People who scream justice and equality need to actually suffer through understanding every tragic part, even the ugly parts, of how Chauvin and Floyd got to this place. Otherwise just get some rope and find a tree. You know when that happened to people? It happened to lots of black people in American history who did things like trying to vote. Or wanted their kids to go to a good school. Or to have the opportunity to earn a real living.  How do you avoid smearing those who actually died and suffered for equality if all you demand is the act itself?

You know what is the difference is between a self righteous lynch mob backed by the for profit media engaged in total self deception and a savage racist lynch mob with rope and hoods?  There is no difference.

But Bill Burr committed the crime of asking the hard question. I committed the crime of asking the hard question. The radical woked out leftists aren't going to tolerate that. So Burr and I need to be purified.

The world I want to live in includes the ability to ask the hard questions. Even the tragic ones. The world I want my godson to inherit includes his ability to ask the hard questions, without the fear of facing a purity test that will line him up against a wall for being an enemy of the state.

Get your rope and make it open since it's popular. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's actually right.

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47 minutes ago, The General said:

The testimony from the retired cop is very compelling.  

And the testimony about standard protocol if possible excessive force is used is to call out the commanding officer to the scene.  That officer ultimately heard of force though a dispatcher seeing that call wasn’t coming so called and said they “didn’t want to rat but...”.  The CO then called Chauvin who's body cam caught the beginning of the call and the “oh yeah I was just going to call you....”  right before he turns it off   

It’s just so disgusting it’s hard to get your head around.  

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1 hour ago, GordonGekko said:

 

VIDEO: Bill Burr - no reason to hit a woman - how women argue (FULL) from You People are all the Same •Jan 29, 2016

The FULL segment about how women argue and why there's no reason to hit a woman from Bill Burr's show "You people are all the same"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ

 

******

Here's an interesting bit by Bill Burr.

He says if you take a very charged issue and you say there's no reason for it to happen, you refuse to discuss how two people actually got to that place. How can you find a solution for the issue if all you are left with is the act itself? And why can you only questions from one side?

https://youtu.be/rksKvZoUCPQ?t=334

It's easy to say Chauvin is an idiot. And if someone pointed that out to me, I wouldn't argue. If he could hide behind his agencies General Orders or his previous training or some legal distinction, there's just basic common sense.

But what's not easy to say is George Floyd was also an idiot. But he's dead! But he's black! But he was a victim! You are a racist! We need to silence you and destroy your ability to earn a living and make sure you are kneeled and beheaded after a purity test!

What you had was two idiots who got caught up in a whirlwind of utter stupidity. That being said, Chauvin actually had some legal responsibility here and duty in terms of his decision making and behavior and actions.

Cahill? Returning back to say a Third Degree murder charge is back on the books after the Minneapolis Appeals Court and the state's Supreme Court basically decided to ignore the law and give fealty to the Court Of Public Opinion because it's a media Red Ball. That's idiotic too.

Floyd has, by estimates, five children. Going around hopped up on drugs, getting in trouble with the law and committing crimes, how is that taking care of your kids? That's being an idiot. I'm sorry he died for his kids' sake but that doesn't change that reality.  Same for Kyle Rittenhouse, another idiot. Had a parent who is a single mom and two younger sisters. Who is going to care for them and stand up for them as the man of the house? Another truly idiotic decision. He might have actually operated in self defense, but did he operate in common sense? Did he operate to his duty and obligation to his family?

People who scream justice and equality need to actually suffer through understanding every tragic part, even the ugly parts, of how Chauvin and Floyd got to this place. Otherwise just get some rope and find a tree. You know when that happened to people? It happened to lots of black people in American history who did things like trying to vote. Or wanted their kids to go to a good school. Or to have the opportunity to earn a real living.  How do you avoid smearing those who actually died and suffered for equality if all you demand is the act itself?

You know what is the difference is between a self righteous lynch mob backed by the for profit media engaged in total self deception and a savage racist lynch mob with rope and hoods?  There is no difference.

But Bill Burr committed the crime of asking the hard question. I committed the crime of asking the hard question. The radical woked out leftists aren't going to tolerate that. So Burr and I need to be purified.

The world I want to live in includes the ability to ask the hard questions. Even the tragic ones. The world I want my godson to inherit includes his ability to ask the hard questions, without the fear of facing a purity test that will line him up against a wall for being an enemy of the state.

Get your rope and make it open since it's popular. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's actually right.

They are getting a trial.

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1 hour ago, GordonGekko said:

 

VIDEO: Bill Burr - no reason to hit a woman - how women argue (FULL) from You People are all the Same •Jan 29, 2016

The FULL segment about how women argue and why there's no reason to hit a woman from Bill Burr's show "You people are all the same"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ

 

******

Here's an interesting bit by Bill Burr.

He says if you take a very charged issue and you say there's no reason for it to happen, you refuse to discuss how two people actually got to that place. How can you find a solution for the issue if all you are left with is the act itself? And why can you only questions from one side?

https://youtu.be/rksKvZoUCPQ?t=334

It's easy to say Chauvin is an idiot. And if someone pointed that out to me, I wouldn't argue. If he could hide behind his agencies General Orders or his previous training or some legal distinction, there's just basic common sense.

But what's not easy to say is George Floyd was also an idiot. But he's dead! But he's black! But he was a victim! You are a racist! We need to silence you and destroy your ability to earn a living and make sure you are kneeled and beheaded after a purity test!

What you had was two idiots who got caught up in a whirlwind of utter stupidity. That being said, Chauvin actually had some legal responsibility here and duty in terms of his decision making and behavior and actions.

Cahill? Returning back to say a Third Degree murder charge is back on the books after the Minneapolis Appeals Court and the state's Supreme Court basically decided to ignore the law and give fealty to the Court Of Public Opinion because it's a media Red Ball. That's idiotic too.

Floyd has, by estimates, five children. Going around hopped up on drugs, getting in trouble with the law and committing crimes, how is that taking care of your kids? That's being an idiot. I'm sorry he died for his kids' sake but that doesn't change that reality.  Same for Kyle Rittenhouse, another idiot. Had a parent who is a single mom and two younger sisters. Who is going to care for them and stand up for them as the man of the house? Another truly idiotic decision. He might have actually operated in self defense, but did he operate in common sense? Did he operate to his duty and obligation to his family?

People who scream justice and equality need to actually suffer through understanding every tragic part, even the ugly parts, of how Chauvin and Floyd got to this place. Otherwise just get some rope and find a tree. You know when that happened to people? It happened to lots of black people in American history who did things like trying to vote. Or wanted their kids to go to a good school. Or to have the opportunity to earn a real living.  How do you avoid smearing those who actually died and suffered for equality if all you demand is the act itself?

You know what is the difference is between a self righteous lynch mob backed by the for profit media engaged in total self deception and a savage racist lynch mob with rope and hoods?  There is no difference.

But Bill Burr committed the crime of asking the hard question. I committed the crime of asking the hard question. The radical woked out leftists aren't going to tolerate that. So Burr and I need to be purified.

The world I want to live in includes the ability to ask the hard questions. Even the tragic ones. The world I want my godson to inherit includes his ability to ask the hard questions, without the fear of facing a purity test that will line him up against a wall for being an enemy of the state.

Get your rope and make it open since it's popular. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's actually right.

Nothing in your diatribe addresses the fact that it is Derek Chauvin and not George Floyd who is on trial, yet thus far it seems like Floyd is the person on trial (as others have stated in this thread as well)

I will add that we know how Chauvin & Floyd got to be in the same place at the same time. The important question is why did Chauvin find in necessary to kneel on Floyd’s neck for over 9 minutes when Floyd was already cuffed, and had been cuffed for several minutes prior to Chauvin putting his knee on Floyd’s neck.

 

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The testimony today from senior detective Zimmerman was probably the most helpful to the prosecutions case and most damaging to Chauvin in my (layman) opinion. He basically testified that Chauvin did not behave within training by keeping his knee on Floyds neck after they called for EMT help - after Floyd had been cuffed and restrained. it's an early day and someone noted the jury gets to think about that all weekend.

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46 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

The testimony today from senior detective Zimmerman was probably the most helpful to the prosecutions case and most damaging to Chauvin in my (layman) opinion. He basically testified that Chauvin did not behave within training by keeping his knee on Floyds neck after they called for EMT help - after Floyd had been cuffed and restrained. it's an early day and someone noted the jury gets to think about that all weekend.

Thank you for providing these updates - I appreciate that you provide them in a straightforward and objective manner. 

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Monday starts with judge shutting down audio and video. Questions jurors on a social media post.

Treating ER doctor testifies: States he believes Floyd died from Oxygen deficiency. Defense crosses on possible contribution from Fentanyl or other drugs.

Second witness is police chief that fired Chauvin and other officers. Same chief testified in prosecution of Noor, another officer fired (and convicted). Expected to state Schauvin was not following training or policy while restraining Floyd.

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Posted (edited)

A lot of pre-trial discussion this morning about the police training materials, which training Derek Chauvin attended, and which witnesses and evidence will be admitted. Judge Cahill wants only materials and instructors that Chauvin attended.

Dr. Langenfeld testified on emergency care provided to George Floyd, and he was the physician who officially pronounced him dead. He testified that there was a high level of CO2 if George Floyds blood, and that there could be various reasons for this including asphyxiation or overdose. 

Chief of Minneapolis Police Arradondo was next. Testified Chauvin violated department policy and did not follow training. Not part of department ethics or values. 

Next witness, Officer Blackwell, testified concerning police training.

Edited by NorvilleBarnes
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5 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

A lot of pre-trial discussion this morning about the police training materials, which training Derek Chauvin attended, and which witnesses and evidence will be admitted. Judge Cahill wants only materials and instructors that Chauvin attended.

Dr. Langenfeld testified on emergency care provided to George Floyd, and he was the physician who officially pronounced him dead. He testified that there was a high level of CO2 if George Floyds blood, and that there could be various reasons for this including asphyxiation or overdose. 

Chief of Minneapolis Police Arradondo was next. Testified Chauvin violated department policy and did not follow training. Not part of department ethics or values. 

Next witness, Officer Blackwell, testified concerning police training.

As you write it the bold sounds pretty damaging to me. Did the testimony come off as pretty impactful?

 

First two paragraphs both make sense and aren't surprising. 

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2 hours ago, Zow said:

As you write it the bold sounds pretty damaging to me. Did the testimony come off as pretty impactful?

Very impactful imo. From a layman's perspective, it sounded like 'Game, Set, Match'. My post was a condensed summary of multiple responses like "That was in no way. shape, or form, what we train." spoken without hesitation.

The WaPo and NPR streams had audio difficulties today (sounded muffled) but the NBC stream was very clear. LINK Chief Arradondo testimony begins around 1:53 but there's a LOT of his history and credentials. The 'meat' of his testimony starts around 4:25. Around 4:53 -  4:57 he begins his testimony in regards to Chauvin specifically that I referenced above.

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  • NorvilleBarnes changed the title to Derek Chauvin trial. Death of George Floyd. Guilty on all counts.

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