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The #metoo Movement And Its Cementing In Culture Is A Lesser-Fanged Puritanism, But Still A Puritanism, Redux


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Boys! They got us back for Salem. Gonna go whole hog on this impulse.

Thinking of a guy I went to school with, Ryan Lizza. When you know the names and the accusations, the circumstances become Orwellian at times.

#### all on this. You can have this society. I want no part of this ####.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/business/ryan-lizza-sexual-misconduct.html?_r=0

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  • rockaction changed the title to The #metoo Movement And Its Cementing In Culture Is The Glorification Of Rank Puritanical Witch Hunts - #### That

Just change the lyrics from an "l" to a "kn" and you've got the right song

They'd have gotten Lou Reed for sexual harassment at some point.

https://youtu.be/62ckXALWn1M

Loooooouuuuuuuuuu      reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

Looooooouuuuuuuuuuu  reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

#### 'em all and throw in the garbage from here to Coney Island
I'm a Coney Island Boy with hot dogs and the whole kabdoodle..
Whooo  whoooo   coney dooooooooooooooooooooooooooodle
Doooobie dooooobie doooooobie
She done sat down sat down on my hoooooobie
 

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  • rockaction changed the title to The #metoo Movement And Its Cementing In Culture Is The Glorification And Celebration Of Puritanical Witch Hunts - #### That

How to destroy a man?
Sister, here's a plan
Go on down to the garbage lawyer man
Send him a suit send him a suit fast as you can
Amibiguity redux nobody'll doubt you
Just claim he yelled once and you'll be in the money
Toots got money
Yeah toots got money
Swing it like a Pan Am stewardess sister with all your empowerment
Swing transistor mister and don't wonder where all of your power went
Ahhhh she's sucking on my ding dong
It was just like Sister Ray said
I'm trynnnna find my mainer
I'm working on the mainnnnnnnnnnnnnnnline
I couldn't hit it sideways
So I made my mark like Edie I made my mark like Candy
I made my mark like a good old fashioned Puritan dandy
I'mmmmmmmmmmmm searchin' on my mainer
Iiiiiiiiiiiii couldn't hit it sidways
So I came right for it the old fashioted American way
I got my cheap suit got your cheap suit got a cheap suit walking
Cuz that man done got he done got talking
And once you get 'em talking...then you got some caulking
Send 'em right on down to plussedville got yourself some balking
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh look at him just wriggle there
Ant magnified on fire in sunlight...it's the new morals baby, and you weren't invited...
Time in the sun time in the sun time in the sun
 

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Do the preconditions for romantic love and art even exist today or have our Puritanical and (everything bureaucratized) democratic impulses crushed them?

I worry about my nephew going to college in a year. What will he find back East? How can you teach the kid Lou Reed when you can't even have him meet a girl without the thirty basic modern preconditions of offensiveness?

We gave the truly dispossessed a voice and look what we've wrought with it, as far as legalities and niceties go.  

Because everybody needs a thirty-six minute version of Sister Ray...

Sister Ray

My friend who helped run a transvestite bar (now transgendered) once told me I was uncomfortable with the transgendered that worked there as they were melting down all around me. I said, "Man, it might be the 24/7 coke they're doing in here...I dunno, call me crazy, but I'm having a ton of fun coked out of my mind and they're grabbing my junk and running all over the stage at two in the morning...and Dirty [redacted] is crying in the corner!"

How on earth do you make this part of the legal landscape?

I'mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm searching for my mainline...I couldn't hit it sidewayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys

Yeah, it was just like Sister Ray said.

####### modern legalities are rubbish until you look at what's underneath them.

@Dr Oadiwould get what I'm laying down today.

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2 minutes ago, squistion said:

Nor do I and I think that the OP is not well.

Useful ____

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I love Lou Reed. But I don’t get you rock. 
 

Yes there may be false or unfair accusations now and then. It’s pretty rare. Would you rather have women who are abused just shut up? Personally I think the fact that finally they’re welcome and encouraged to speak out is a good thing. 

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13 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

not sure what your point is here, gb.   you think a good portion of that list is wrongly accused?

That the list itself is problematic and a borderline witch hunt and blacklist in print form. Of course it's Vox that does it. It no longer assumes justice is individualized, to be meted out and answered per the individual and their accusers, but it acquires a group feel. Justice is not best served that way. It is erratic at best, borderline groupthink at worst. And it does the huge disservice of putting things like my old acquaintance was apparently accused of doing (having a relationship against work rules) on a par with Weinstein, who was a rapist and criminal. Two different things. So one asks what the point of publishing that list is, and rightfully so, just with that one caveat among many I won't go into for time's sake.

I think a goodly portion of that list is part of a clickable list whereby one can publicly look at people's (possibly innocent) private offenses against work and person as economic agent rather than criminal ones. To lump all in the same list is violative of standards of justice at best, grossly negligent at least. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I love Lou Reed. But I don’t get you rock. 
 

Yes there may be false or unfair accusations now and then. It’s pretty rare. Would you rather have women who are abused just shut up? Personally I think the fact that finally they’re welcome and encouraged to speak out is a good thing. 

No, I don't think it's a good thing. I think it has acquired a Puritanical zeal best left to the seventeenth century. That's what its religious fervor is hoping for, to some degree. Standards of justice have been altered and feminized to a degree that I'm very uncomfortable with. Evidentiary standards are scant, justice swift and ferocious. Destroying people's lives.

There are bad actors, to be sure, but this is no better than a communist blacklist, and even then, it's likely less true than the communist blacklists. YMMV. A lot of people think it's about time. I'm all about it being time for post-feminism and post-metoo, frankly. I'm not for going back to sixties or seventies norms of harassment; what I am sure of is that I see a lot of potential for personal grievances turned litigious and/or turned over to a criminal justice system that I don't trust to handle this. 

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

No, I don't think it's a good thing. I think it has acquired a Puritanical zeal best left to the seventeenth century. That's what its religious fervor is hoping for, to some degree. Standards of justice have been altered and feminized to a degree that I'm very uncomfortable with. Evidentiary standards are scant, justice swift and ferocious. Destroying people's lives.

There are bad actors, to be sure, but this is no better than a communist blacklist, and even then, it's likely less true than the communist blacklists. YMMV. A lot of people think it's about time. I'm all about it being time for post-feminism and post-metoo, frankly. I'm not for going back to sixties or seventies norms of harassment; what I am sure of is that I see a lot of potential for personal grievances turned litigious and/or turned over to a criminal justice system that I don't trust to handle this. 

Society has changed. Women are encouraged to speak up. Sorry but I’m very glad it’s the way it now is. 

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Society has changed. Women are encouraged to speak up. Sorry but I’m very glad it’s the way it now is. 

Society has indeed changed. You may be glad about that, but I think it's for the worse. That should have been an obvious retort to the somewhat declarative "society has changed." No kidding. Why else would I have taken out the thread but to disagree with it?

 

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Society has indeed changed. You may be glad about that, but I think it's for the worse. That should have been an obvious retort to the somewhat declarative "society has changed." No kidding. Why else would I have taken out the thread but to disagree with it?

 

I’m not saying you don’t make a case. Yes there is the distinct possibility of innocent people being accused and their lives ruined because we are encouraged to trust women when they make these accusations. 
 

So what should we do about it? We can’t go backwards, and frankly for the sake of my two daughters I don’t want to. What we can do is take each case as it comes, try our best to examine them objectively and not to prejudge. We won’t always succeed at this, but we can try. 

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So what should we do about it? We can’t go backwards, and frankly for the sake of my two daughters I don’t want to. What we can do is take each case as it comes, try our best to examine them objectively and not to prejudge. We won’t always succeed at this, but we can try. 

Taking each case as it came, examining them objectively, and not prejudging was everything the #metoo movement was against. It a) took cases in aggregate b) examined them with the mantra of "I believe her" or believe all women and c) prejudged the cases by asserting that the simple lodging of a complaint was evidence in favor of the assertion being true.

That one would look at the #metoo movement and support it while asserting the importance of the three things you assert are important sort of flies in the face of the quasi-bullying the "movement" (which, in its name, asserts and aggregates a series of complaints) set out to achieve.

It set out to wipe away your three qualifications for what to do and how to approach it. Not sure how, if you really think about it, that you won't see that.

It pluralized the movement, it deobjectified by asserting an subjective standard of proof, and it prejudged by the virtue of its catchphrase alone.

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1 hour ago, dozer said:

I remember my first beer...

When I was 17, I drank my very first beer

My very first beer I purchased with a fake id

My name was Bryan McGee

I stayed up listening to Queen

When I was 17

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50 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Taking each case as it came, examining them objectively, and not prejudging was everything the #metoo movement was against. It a) took cases in aggregate b) examined them with the mantra of "I believe her" or believe all women and c) prejudged the cases by asserting that the simple lodging of a complaint was evidence in favor of the assertion being true.

That one would look at the #metoo movement and support it while asserting the importance of the three things you assert are important sort of flies in the face of the quasi-bullying the "movement" (which, in its name, asserts and aggregates a series of complaints) set out to achieve.

It set out to wipe away your three qualifications for what to do and how to approach it. Not sure how, if you really think about it, that you won't see that.

It pluralized the movement, it deobjectified by asserting an subjective standard of proof, and it prejudged by the virtue of its catchphrase alone.

I really don’t agree. Women were not being believed. In many situations they were effectively helpless. #Metoo was, and remains, very necessary. 

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I really don’t agree. Women were not being believed. In many situations they were effectively helpless. #Metoo was, and remains, very necessary. 

That's all fine if declaratives are what you're looking to proffer. What specifically about #metoo was necessary? Because it wasn't the triad of things you listed above. In fact, it was meant to counter the triad of things involving justice that you offered above. I can point to it. You've just declared its necessity without even thinking of your own standards of justice. It was not individualized, it did not ask for case-by-case bases, it did not ask to be litigated fairly, and it certainly depended on the strength of its numbers rather than the particular complaints. How that is debatable is beyond me. The whole nature of calling something a "#metoo movement" is that is has something to do with a sense of generalized and not particular injustice and that its evidence was is in its numbers and that it was a truthful assertion that wasn't subject to normal scrutiny because, in their opinion, the truth had been held down for so long by conventional complaint and justice methods.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Is this a Rock de la Nuit? Squis one liners, tim singing backup, even a haiku thrown in.  Good stuff. 👍

It can be a de la Nuit. I think it's more of a Noah's Ark-style Rock Island Line.

"I got goats, I got sheep, I got cows, I got hogs, I got horses, I got all livestock...I got all livestock"

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  • rockaction changed the title to The #metoo Movement And Its Cementing In Culture Is A Lesser-Fanged Puritanism, But Still A Puritanism, Redux

i've begun to think about the hyperbole in the opening title and decided it did not reflect the accuracy of burning heretics or drowning witches. That is a bridge too far for what the #metoo movement has done. Sometimes I think that hyperbole is an effective way to draw threaded parallels between two things. Other times it makes a position laughable. So in this instance, I seek to maintain the parallels while modifying the depth of the final conclusion regarding what impetus it springs from. Nobody has been been drowned with a dunking stick because of eating bad bread in Church here. These matters are a lot different in their resolutions, and despite the similarities of lack of proof that goes with accusation and the impetus that drives it, it should probably be treated differently than I did. Nobody wrote me or even really argued about it in the thread. It's just a decision I made after consideration.

I really wanted to pose the question of how modern society would view Lou Reed's songwriting. I don't think it'd pass muster and that's too bad. He gave life to a lot of things that previously had no life given to them. Especially his descriptions of the people hanging out at Andy Warhol's Factory. Those characters he accepted and remembered in song and lyric and spirit. Good on him.

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5 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am not sure what this thread is about.  :oldunsure:

 

Sex is a biological need for men.

In order to have regular sex, a man needs to take some risks in interactions with women.

We live in a modern society where if you don't read a woman's mind exactly the right way at the right time, under a zero tolerance structure, then you are a going to be labeled a woman hating rapist.

It's exponentially harder for young generations. When I was in my prime, I just had to reach into my fanny pack and produce a mix tape to win over a Jazzercise instructor with low self esteem. Many were more than happy to take a First Class ticket to Pound Town. But more importantly, you were allowed to have some margin for error. You could make mistakes and not be seen as a test case for sexual assault accusations.

My neighbor, his son just finished high school and is going into the military. That's literally his best life option right now. I have nothing against the military, I think a career there is great, but it's difficult to realize for many young people, it's their only practical option period. His son is going to live life where all the attractive girls his age are going to be rode hard through Tinder by 50-60 guys in their early 20s. He should ring up one of those protein sponges?  No man, no real man, wants to pay for what others got for free. Why have kids? In this current world? What is the chance for a young guy in his early 20s to see the prospect of owning a home or reaching a practical retirement?  Can you even talk to a woman at work without triple checking in your head if you've said anything that could possibly have her drag you in front of HR to have your career destroyed? If you can't talk to women at work, at college, at the gym or anywhere, plus the pandemic, what exactly is the point? Especially if 95 percent of the people spend 95 percent of the time staring into their phones. Mike Leach was right. Do you know how bad society has gotten when Mike Leach is right about male/female dynamics?

If I was my godson's age, I don't know if I could do now what I did back then.

This extends past the #MeToo movement and the cancel culture and the impact of unchecked liberal feminism in modern American society.

The birth rate has declined sharply in the US for a long time. It's not the only Western nation facing this problem. No new children, no future taxpayers, we all die. Doesn't help American government is printing money like there is no tomorrow. We are spending our grandchildren's money in a society that incentivizes not having grandchildren at all.

The #MeToo movement is part cover story for a larger unsettling issue that the MSM simply won't discuss - The average American woman is the worst long term investment in our modern society.  It's easier to say all men are evil and bigots and potential rapists than saying the secret has been let out of the bag. That the typical "Karen" and prodigy Karen is basically an emotional and financial sinkhole for the average American male.

#MeToo is just repackaged virtue signaling from rode hard past their prime muffin tops with bad credit, bad skin and too much life baggage to rationalize why Chris Hemsworth isn't going to show up like Oprah promised them because society and movies and Instagram thots told them they deserved absolutely everything.

#STFUAndEnjoyYourCats

#YogaPantsDontHideEverything

#NoExternalValidationForYou

#MarryingAmericanIsTheNewPennyStock

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I’ve always considered myself a fairly intelligent man. I’ve also always felt I had a fairly good grasp of the English language.  Trying to read this thread makes me severely doubt one of my previous assertions, I’m just not sure which one.  

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41 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

Sex is a biological need for men.

In order to have regular sex, a man needs to take some risks in interactions with women.

We live in a modern society where if you don't read a woman's mind exactly the right way at the right time, under a zero tolerance structure, then you are a going to be labeled a woman hating rapist.

It's exponentially harder for young generations. When I was in my prime, I just had to reach into my fanny pack and produce a mix tape to win over a Jazzercise instructor with low self esteem. Many were more than happy to take a First Class ticket to Pound Town. But more importantly, you were allowed to have some margin for error. You could make mistakes and not be seen as a test case for sexual assault accusations.

My neighbor, his son just finished high school and is going into the military. That's literally his best life option right now. I have nothing against the military, I think a career there is great, but it's difficult to realize for many young people, it's their only practical option period. His son is going to live life where all the attractive girls his age are going to be rode hard through Tinder by 50-60 guys in their early 20s. He should ring up one of those protein sponges?  No man, no real man, wants to pay for what others got for free. Why have kids? In this current world? What is the chance for a young guy in his early 20s to see the prospect of owning a home or reaching a practical retirement?  Can you even talk to a woman at work without triple checking in your head if you've said anything that could possibly have her drag you in front of HR to have your career destroyed? If you can't talk to women at work, at college, at the gym or anywhere, plus the pandemic, what exactly is the point? Especially if 95 percent of the people spend 95 percent of the time staring into their phones. Mike Leach was right. Do you know how bad society has gotten when Mike Leach is right about male/female dynamics?

If I was my godson's age, I don't know if I could do now what I did back then.

This extends past the #MeToo movement and the cancel culture and the impact of unchecked liberal feminism in modern American society.

The birth rate has declined sharply in the US for a long time. It's not the only Western nation facing this problem. No new children, no future taxpayers, we all die. Doesn't help American government is printing money like there is no tomorrow. We are spending our grandchildren's money in a society that incentivizes not having grandchildren at all.

The #MeToo movement is part cover story for a larger unsettling issue that the MSM simply won't discuss - The average American woman is the worst long term investment in our modern society.  It's easier to say all men are evil and bigots and potential rapists than saying the secret has been let out of the bag. That the typical "Karen" and prodigy Karen is basically an emotional and financial sinkhole for the average American male.

#MeToo is just repackaged virtue signaling from rode hard past their prime muffin tops with bad credit, bad skin and too much life baggage to rationalize why Chris Hemsworth isn't going to show up like Oprah promised them because society and movies and Instagram thots told them they deserved absolutely everything.

#STFUAndEnjoyYourCats

#YogaPantsDontHideEverything

#NoExternalValidationForYou

#MarryingAmericanIsTheNewPennyStock

Robert California is that you?

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

I really don’t agree. Women were not being believed. In many situations they were effectively helpless. #Metoo was, and remains, very necessary. 

I agree with the basic premise of this, but I wonder if it has swung too much the other way.  There should be due process for the men also.  

I do like how Cuomo is playing the victim card now.  

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11 hours ago, rockaction said:

Boys! They got us back for Salem. Gonna go whole hog on this impulse.

Thinking of a guy I went to school with, Ryan Lizza. When you know the names and the accusations, the circumstances become Orwellian at times.

#### all on this. You can have this society. I want no part of this ####.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/business/ryan-lizza-sexual-misconduct.html?_r=0

Do you have details about what the actual allegations are.  That article seems purposely vague as to what he was accused of doing.  

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4 hours ago, FairWarning said:

I agree with the basic premise of this, but I wonder if it has swung too much the other way.  There should be due process for the men also.  

I do like how Cuomo is playing the victim card now.  

Maybe it has, but I think that's natural after years of going unchecked.  

I get not wanting to group Bill Cosby with a dude that said something off color or whatever mild example we can come up with.  There needs to be context and nuance with this. 

We all bring personal experience to this.  We have had to part ways with 2-3 managers and employees over the years, and its never out of left field or a one time thing.  Not sure why it would be too hard just to come to work to work.  

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4 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Do you have details about what the actual allegations are.  That article seems purposely vague as to what he was accused of doing.  

I don't have any other details other than what the news media gives, which is indeed completely intentionally vague, probably for reasons of litigation and settlement. As far as me starting the thread, I don't really regret it. The complaint was generalized. I was just struck by his name, and I don't really know him that well. We were acquaintances at boarding school, and we may have crossed paths once or twice in the most casual of ways. Maybe. So I don't want to beat that horse. But of the names listed at Vox, they seem to run the absolute gamut with respect to the allegations, and his is one of the instances where I could find no malfeasance other than what appears to be a technical violation of work rules (likely dating subordinates, maybe?). Regardless, it's no Harvey Weinstein on the surface, nor even reading between the lines. There shouldn't be a mass of 280 or so men listed with clickable names leading to a synopsis of their offense. That ####### reeks.

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10 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

Sex is a biological need for men.

In order to have regular sex, a man needs to take some risks in interactions with women.

We live in a modern society where if you don't read a woman's mind exactly the right way at the right time, under a zero tolerance structure, then you are a going to be labeled a woman hating rapist. [...]

The only real attempt by anyone to explain what the point of this thread is. Thank you for the effort, but unfortunately, after reading that I still don't know what this discussion is really about outside of something related to the #MeToo movement and puritanism (and I only got that from the title).

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fully stipulating that its sumn on which a woman can ruin a man for spite, until we take our guilties on this so####inobvious issue we aint even gonna get to, never mind get over, sexual fraud and women's culpability in sexual politics - the ultimate obstacle to men getting back to being men and women to women and this all being a partnership of differents. i'll be feeding worms before any of that begins to happen, but i'm jussayinknow'm'sayin?

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5 minutes ago, massraider said:

How soon were we into the MeToo movement were we when we started hearing about how it swung to far to the other side?

A month?

It was too soon the day it started.

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23 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

fully stipulating that its sumn on which a woman can ruin a man for spite, until we take our guilties on this so####inobvious issue we aint even gonna get to, never mind get over, sexual fraud and women's culpability in sexual politics - the ultimate obstacle to men getting back to being men and women to women and this all being a partnership of differents. i'll be feeding worms before any of that begins to happen, but i'm jussayinknow'm'sayin?

I think that for a lot of us, those who were really guilty of said excesses can really take their guilties and spare us the shrapnel in our genitals a la The Sun Also Rises, know what I'm saying? 

Kind of like women can take or leave false accusers and spiteful ones from their own sex. I'd like there to be some justice other than group-led and group-received justice. But with the current political climate the way it is, I'll be feeding worms and we won't be past this group qualifying stage.

In other words, misapplied justice to otherwise innocent people and diffused complaints that target whole swaths of the populace that never did a thing, are in my estimation, a bad thing both for justice and for effect.

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4 minutes ago, massraider said:

I rest my case.

"Movements" regarding private actions undertaken by individuals are rarely just and often target those that had nothing to do with the complaint but for existing as a human being. It's a fallacy of composition, and we're all a little dumber for it.

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8 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think that for a lot of us, those who were really guilty of said excesses can really take their guilties and spare us the shrapnel in our genitals a la The Sun Also Rises, know what I'm saying? 

Kind of like women can take or leave false accusers and spiteful ones. I'd like there to be some justice other than group-led and group-received justice. But with the current political climate the way it is, I'll be feeding worms and we won't be past this group qualifying stage.

In other words, misapplied justice to otherwise innocent people and diffused complaints that target whole swaths of the populace that never did a thing, are in my estimation, a bad thing both for justice and for effect.

look, i dont argue sexual politics here cuz its all sooooo stoopit for men to be talking about among themselves but, even though i have NEVER been guilty of anything more than being cavalier with a woman's perspective on the whole rassle (and its already been established that i was among the most prolific FFAppers), i'm taking my lumps on this. it's simply not a case-by-case issue but, as a standup comic once pointed out, a if-you-knew-what-we're-thinking-you'd never-stop-slapping-us thing.

we'll never go back to men/women being a complimentary relationship until we deal with the whole attract/exploit aspect of femininity as being nearly as much skullduggery as male doggedness, and y'all delay even the suggestion of that (and you think we're resistant) until we own up to "willulook@datass?!" being able to interrupt our prayers. that's as far im goin onniss.

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5 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Do you have details about what the actual allegations are.  That article seems purposely vague as to what he was accused of doing.  

 

Let's unpack the core of the problem.

If a man is unsuccessful with women, if he finds a mentor or other guys from work or the gym or college to help him, the advice is usually practical. Work out more. Make more money. Dress better. Work on your social skills. Develop a good opening to start a conversation. Men understand the struggle because they must pursue. If you approach 100 women with interest, maybe 10 will be receptive. Maybe 5. Maybe none.

If a woman is unsuccessful with men, if she finds other women to complain to this about, the advice is usually it's all the fault of men. The right guy hasn't come along and if things don't work out, it's not her at all. She doesn't need to put in any work or effort or develop herself. She just has to show up and not be fat. But many don't even try to stop the fat part.

When a woman is shown interest by a man she thinks is BENEATH her, she is insulted. This is an "assault" on her status and thus her dignity. If he thinks he's good enough to date her, and he's low status, then it's a statement she is low status.

The problem lies in that modern feminism and mass media and Hollywood and music and TV and advertising and Big Education all say the same thing - You ladies are everything and deserve the best. Until we want you insecure and irrational enough to buy our products to make you believe you can be young again ( you can't).

So you have an entire generation of women who think they deserve to marry Chris Hemsworth without putting in any kind of effort at all. So anyone less than that is beneath her and is insulting her for even talking to her.

So that's what men are guilty of the most. Being either truly low status in comparison to the woman in front of them. Or being perceived to be so by a jilted Karen type harpy with a double chin.

If you actually sit down and talk to non Westerners, many of them, their opinion of American women ( as potential mates/partners/mothers/dates) is painfully true and almost comical.

The #MeToo movement is built largely upon the cognitive dissonance by a shockingly large number of overtly large American women who think they control a seller's market. The problem for most women is they don't seem to understand that high status only means something if you can get it to commit to you. But what kind of successful man with real options is going to marry up a washed up roastie that has had 80 Tinder notches on her expanding yoga pants?

Do you know what that image disgusts men? Because of biological imperative. A woman who gives it up so freely and loosely, how do you know that kid is yours? Cavemen didn't have paternity tests. She gave it up for 79 guys before you, loose and at no cost, but you have to pay the mortgage to keep a beat down piece of roast beef with a government backed parachute where she can walk away with your house, your kids, most of your assets and likely your emotional sanity?

Lots of women would rather blame you, play the victim card, say you are a bigot and a rapist than put down the fork, pick up a kettlebell and pretend to be civil every once in a while. This is why #MeToo has widespread appeal to the wide unstoppable gaggle of Karens drunk on cheap Trader Joe's wine.

Personally? I put part of the blame on yoga pants. The guy who invented those actually gave many aging muffintops a fighting chance. I suppose when you see a bag of oranges spill out of the netting when you get home, it's too late, you already paid for them. Yoga pants are no different. Most men figure they already flew the sortie and avoided most of the anti-aircraft batteries on the way in, they might as well deliver the payload since it's just momentum at that point.

Not vague, he's guilty of not being Chris Hemsworth. The movies all told her that was promised to her just for showing up. And since it's not happening, there needs to be a reckoning.

Women are all the same. Some just cost different.

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1 hour ago, wikkidpissah said:

look, i dont argue sexual politics here cuz its all sooooo stoopit for men to be talking about among themselves but, even though i have NEVER been guilty of anything more than being cavalier with a woman's perspective on the whole rassle (and its already been established that i was among the most prolific FFAppers), i'm taking my lumps on this. it's simply not a case-by-case issue but, as a standup comic once pointed out, a if-you-knew-what-we're-thinking-you'd never-stop-slapping-us thing.

we'll never go back to men/women being a complimentary relationship until we deal with the whole attract/exploit aspect of femininity as being nearly as much skullduggery as male doggedness, and y'all delay even the suggestion of that (and you think we're resistant) until we own up to "willulook@datass?!" being able to interrupt our prayers. that's as far im goin onniss.

Sounds like a lot of religion and lust shaming in the bolded. Will we still retain all of the shame and none of religion's "comforts"? Do not, I repeat, do not sign me up for that. Bewilderment, confusion, existential angst, with no hope of even the remotest of wagers for the immortal? Non.

Edited by rockaction
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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I think we should have a thread where rock and wikkid talk to one another and the rest of us just sit back and marvel.

I don't quite know how to address this other than to say wikkid is a font of dues paid, but hates fondue ways.

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9 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Sounds like a lot of religion and lust shaming in the bolded. Will we still retain all of the shame and none of religion's "comforts"? Do not, I repeat, do not sign me up for that. Bewilderment, confusion, existential angst, with no hope of even the remotest of wagers for the immortal? Non.

I'm Fondue U, tu

hey, i am eternally comforted by the Miracle that i get the chance to be so uncomfortable. just dont tell me the name a dat or how moral it is for you to tell me wut 2 du. jussayin i can get wood @ a funeral and so can y'all

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