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HR1-For the People Act (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter shadrap
- Start date
Mookie
Footballguy
Prove a voter fraud problem with more than anecdotes and speculative theorizing before restricting such a fundamental right. This includes understanding the voting process in each jurisdiction, and those jurisdictional differences make it infinitely less possible for their to be "widespread voter fraud" as alleged by Trump's Big Lie.
Until Republicans show their work and continue to trot out these vague and unfounded claims, their resistance to HR1, gerrymandering, and election "reforms" are just transparent efforts to retain power and disenfranchize voters. Who are the real "Communists" here?
Until Republicans show their work and continue to trot out these vague and unfounded claims, their resistance to HR1, gerrymandering, and election "reforms" are just transparent efforts to retain power and disenfranchize voters. Who are the real "Communists" here?
shadrap
Footballguy
not talking about anything Trump. Talking about HR 1 & the obvious faults in it. If you find it okay that I can walk into a polling place, sign a statement that I'm Jesus Christ, no ID, no notary, no witness, & vote then you agree with the statue.
good for you.
-jb-
Footballguy
shadrap
Footballguy
-jb-
Footballguy
One would have to assume that you registered as Jesus Christ, which would then need to be verified before Jesus Christ appeared on the voter list at your assigned polling location. Just curious how you get that part done. Unless we are assuming that you are also registering at your polling location, at which point you would need to enter your address and some other information for verification on the back end. Do you put Nazareth as your address? That seems like it would be a disqualifier.
the moops
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
I have never needed an ID, notary or witness to vote in any election in the 34 years I've been eligible to vote. I've lived in three different states over that period of time. None have any significant issue with voter fraud.
What about all the examples cited in this article? https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/11/03/us-election-fraud-is-real-and-its-impact-is-being-ignored/
Genuine question - I detailed what I have to go through in order to vote here in California. I have never seen any place where anyone can just walk in without having registered (even on day of), give any name they want with no other type of verification (confirm address, signature required, etc.) and receive a ballot and place a vote.
Do you have an actual example of somewhere in the United States where what you have claimed here is the actual process?
massraider
Footballguy
I'm all like, who is Hans von Spakovsky?
Also:
President Donald Trump appointed von Spakovsky to the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity in 2017.
I'm having a tough time accessing the findings of this commission. I assumed all the evidence would be in a binder or something.
Is this what is always done here? Someone presents evidence to the contrary and rather than deal with the facts the source is questioned? Are we trying to get at the truth or not?
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massraider
Footballguy
The fact is, he was appointed to a presidential commission to find all these problems.
It appears they disbanded without discovering anything. Am I to ignore the findings of President Donald J Trump's super official commission?
In favor of a piece by Kris Koback henchman on.......Daily Signal?
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Comments like that are exactly why I am now wondering if people even have an idea of what it takes to vote in their districts. I've lived in NC, SC, GA, OH and now FL and none of that remotely comes close to the process any of them use.
What about the 7 or so elections that were impacted by fraud - the NC one in particular which resulted in another election - listed in the article? All those facts made up? Serious question - do you immediately dismiss as false anything you see from a right wing publication?The fact is, he was appointed to a presidential commission to find all these problems.
It appears they disbanded without discovering anything. Am I to ignore the findings of President Donald J Trump's super official commission?
In favor of a piece by Kris Koback henchman on.......Daily Signal?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I cant support a bill that allows people paid by the campaign to go door to door to collect absentee ballots even if state law forbids such an action.
There is a reason that is in there and it isn't just to help get out the vote.
There is a reason that is in there and it isn't just to help get out the vote.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/4704149001
So much fraud so little time.
Strike that! Reveres it.
So much fraud so little time.
Strike that! Reveres it.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
-jb-
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Mookie
Footballguy
You can't. Here in Idaho (reddest of the red states), if you don't have proof of identity, you can sign a sworn affidavit attesting to your identity and vote. Providing false information on that form is a felony. Idaho law is therefore consistent with HR 1. What you are advocating is something even more restrictive that the most restrictive laws in the land.
What does requiring that person to go the bank, spend $25, and have their statement notarized possibly do? The guy is still swearing that he's Jesus Christ - he's just doing it in front of a nice lady who paid $50 for a stamp and a certificate. Same goes for the witness - How does bringing your cousin Vito verify who you are?
What you are arguing for are roadblocks designed to discourage people form voting. They are anti-democratic and smell a lot like tactics used in authoritarian regimes. As I said before, you will need a lot more than hyperbole, theorizing, and anecdotes to convince me that such extreme measures are necessary. Where is the proof of widespread voter fraud?
FairWarning
Footballguy
Every state has different rules, California's is good. If the other states were like that, we would have far fewer problems.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I dont know what S4033 is, but if you look at the text for HR1 and search for the text I typed, you will find it.
ETA: I see now it is actually in Sec. 1621 (which is adding section 307)
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BroadwayG
Footballguy
Yeah, I got confused, sorry. Section 307 is what they're adding to the voting act of 2002.
Section 1621 is where this is taking place in the current bill.
Totally agree it's awful.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I voted by mail for the first time this election cycle(Maryland) for no reason other than I didn't want to wait in line or wait until election day. I never want to vote in person again and do not see a compelling reason for not allowing no excuse vote by mail going forward. Yet, that is one of the measures some states are taking and is one of the reasons hr-1 is on the table.
Perssuade me that no excuse vote by mail hurts the sanctity of the election process.
Perssuade me that no excuse vote by mail hurts the sanctity of the election process.
The Commish
Footballguy
nevermind
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NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Has this bill been to submitted to MLB for review?
quick-hands
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Wondering if anyone has comment on the experimental poll done where they removed all the political cues from all the questions on the "For the People Act". Approval levels seem to be significantly different.
Zow
Footballguy
In my state you could go to prison. And in my experience the state doesn't mess around. These matters usually get referred to the AG's office and in my experience even a voter with a clean record will get nothing better in a plea offer than a felony conviction and probation. The state will want the felony to ensure the defendant cannot vote at least through his probation period and his civil rights will likely only be restored upon successful completion of that probation.
For comparison's sake, the above referenced charge is treated more harshly than a DUI, smacking one's wife around, possesing meth, etc.
JAA
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
hmmm....I ran across it while clicking through the wormhole of reports saying that McConnell and the Koch brothers were paniced/depressed about how much support there was for the voting bill even with Republicans. I THINK this is the PDF of the results and questions asked.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
How does requiring ID make it more difficult for minorities to vote? You need an ID to buy alcohol, cigarettes, get on a plane. To suggest that minorities can't obtain an ID is patronizing.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
When you don't have a birth certificate or social security number you can obtain a voter ID number from the State you want to vote from. That number becomes your voter ID.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
It's a bit more than a dozen. This is just the cases of voter fraud that have been proven. For every case you can prove, there are probably 10 cases where you just don't have enough evidence.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is an excellent piece of evidence to put in the "Solution in search of a problem" pile. We've had BILLIONS of votes cast between 1979 and now and this site, from Heritage Foundation mind you, gives us 1322 instances of proven voter fraud. Let's say there ARE 10 times as many cases that aren't proven. That gives you 13220 cases of voter fraud....over BILLIONS of votes cast.
Can we pause and think about this for a minute?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
How many votes do you think have been cast in the USA over the last 12 years? Billions?
It's just not a problem that requires a massive overhaul of elections in a state or the country.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Each case isn't just one vote though. One case could be 1 vote, 100 votes or 1000 votes. For example, the following case covered multiple elections and an unspecified number of additional fraudulent ballots in each election.
In Pennsylvania, "Domenick Demuro, a Judge of Elections in Philadelphia and a Democratic ward leader, accepted bribes to add fraudulent ballots to voting machines and falsely certify election results for certain Democrat candidates in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 primary elections. According to the DOJ press release, Demuro “admitted that a local political consultant gave him directions and paid him money to add votes for candidates supported by the consultant, including candidates for judicial office whose campaigns actually hired the consultant, and other candidates for various federal, state and local elective offices preferred by that consultant for a variety of reasons.” Demuro pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to deprive Philadelphia voters of their civil rights and one violation of the Hatch act. He will be sentenced on July 20, 2021."
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I'll see your 1324 cases of fraud and raise you 10,000,000 voters over the same period (2008-2020) who didn't have an ID.
That's using .5% of voters without an ID x 2,000,000,000 total votes (feel free to update using your own estimates). And that doesn't count people who didn't go to vote at all because they didn't have ID -- it's only actual voters.
i.e., at a minimum, there would be roughly 7,500 people prevented from voting for every proven case of fraud that might have been averted.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Election integrity is much more important than every eligible voter voting. But for arguments sake, even if I said providing every eligible voter the ability to vote is paramount, then requiring them to have an ID isn't some hard hoop for them to jump through. When you register to vote, you don't need to provide an ID. If you don't have a drivers license, state ID or SSN you simply need to check a box on the registration form and the State will provide you with a voter ID number. If a person can't check a box to register, it's going to be hard for them to check a box when they vote. Here's an example for you. This is the registration form for the State of Georgia.
https://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/GA_VR_APP_2019.pdf
From the form: "5. VOTER IDENTIFICATION NUMBER. Federal law requires you to provide your full GA Drivers License number or GA State issued ID number. If you do not have a GA Drivers License or GA ID you must provide the last 4 digits of your Social Security number. Providing your full Social Security number is optional. Your Social Security number will be kept confidential and may be used for comparison with other state agency databases for voter registration identification purposes. If you do not possess a GA Drivers License or Social Security number please check the appropriate box and a unique identifier will be provided for you."
Now here comes the hard part. In line 5 of the registration form there is a box that says: "Check if you do not have a GA Driver’s License, GA. I.D. No. or Social Security No." You check that, sign the form and get your voter ID number to use when you vote.
So your argument is that filling out that form with your name and address. Checking that box. Signing the form and the sending it back is SOOOOO difficult that we should do away with the ID requirement altogether? Or is checking that box racist? I get confused by some of the stupid reasons people don't want ID requirements.
The Commish
Footballguy
At a 1000 votes per incident it's not sniffing the "statistically significant/meaningful" line of concern
This has been the point all along. I appreciate the post of this site...had no idea there was anyone out there attempting to track this stuff.
shadrap
Footballguy
The great State of California allows vote trafficking. Anyone shows up at your door, "Hey I'll deliver your absentee ballot for you back to election officials." problem being that it puts your ballot into the hands of people who have a stake in the outcome of the election, campaign staffers, et al, who once they get your ballot, can change it, alter it, not deliver it.
Does not sound like a good idea to me.
Mile High
Footballguy
shadrap
Footballguy
Huh? what does an ID solve with buying liquor? what does an ID solve when boarding a plane. what does an ID solve when cashing a check?
Mile High
Footballguy
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